Dear list,

I'm maintaining the opencpn and libwxsvg packages. They both depend on wxWidgets which now is updated to version 3.2 in testing. Hence, I have
two bugs [1], [2] requesting an update of my packages.

The core issue here is opencpn, wxsvg is a dependency. The problem with
opencpn is that it has a plugin universe, and updating the current 5.6.2 version to wxWidgets 3.2 would break the plugin ABI.

The upstream plan to handle the ABI break is to do it when releasing
next version 5.8.0 which is going into beta in November and will be
released before Christmas. My thinking has been that if opencpn 5.8.0 is uploaded before Christmas the update process should be ok, since the
wxWidgets 3.2 version will be uploaded before the freeze.

Opencpn (current master, upcoming 5.8.0) builds fine using wxWidgets 3.2.

However, I get nag messages that opencpn will be removed from testing at November 8 unless I update it to using 3.2. Obviously, this makes me
nervous. Questions:

1) Is my overall plan ok?
2) If so, how handle the threat of being removed from testing?

Cheers!
--alec

[1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1019769
[2] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1019765

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Hi Tobias!

Thanks for takin time to reply!

On 28/10/2022 11:00, Tobias Frost wrote:

Hi Alec,
On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 10:15:49AM +0200, Alec Leamas wrote:

The core issue here is opencpn, wxsvg is a dependency. The problem with
opencpn is that it has a plugin universe, and updating the current 5.6.2
version to wxWidgets 3.2 would break the plugin ABI.

Is this breakage due to wxWidgets or due to other upstream changes?
If the latter, *it might be* possible to backport the wxWidgets patches, however whether that is feasible I don't know…

The breakage is about wxWidgets, backporting wxWidgets patches is
certainly not possible. End even it it was, it just not worth it for a
window for about a month.

Don't see that as a threat. Sure it is annoying but testing removal
is temporary and as you package will be still in backports, people
should be able to install from there, if they are on stable…
If they are on testing, well, that is the peril of testing.

Ah... Feared being forced to pass the NEW queue if removed from testing.
Now less nervous...

More generally, any response to a release critical bug will restart
the removal timer. So if you reply to the bugs below, and document
the plan, this will reset the timer, so you can delay the automatic
removal a bit. However, that will not stop the release team for
manually removal; contrary, they might be unhappy if people using
this as tactic to delay autoremovals, as this creates work for them.

Said that, a reply to the bug laying out the plan should be done anyways, because this is useful information for many… (If there is an upstream discussion, set the Forwarded: BTS metainfo to link to that discussion)

I have already replied in the opencpn bug. Will do the same in the wxsvg
one, handle whatever replies turns up there and hope for the best.

Thanks for clarifying!
--alec

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Hi Alec,
On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 10:15:49AM +0200, Alec Leamas wrote:

Dear list,

I'm maintaining the opencpn and libwxsvg packages. They both depend on wxWidgets which now is updated to version 3.2 in testing. Hence, I have two bugs [1], [2] requesting an update of my packages.

The core issue here is opencpn, wxsvg is a dependency. The problem with opencpn is that it has a plugin universe, and updating the current 5.6.2 version to wxWidgets 3.2 would break the plugin ABI.

Is this breakage due to wxWidgets or due to other upstream changes?
If the latter, *it might be* possible to backport the wxWidgets patches, however whether that is feasible I don't know…

The upstream plan to handle the ABI break is to do it when releasing next version 5.8.0 which is going into beta in November and will be released before Christmas. My thinking has been that if opencpn 5.8.0 is uploaded before Christmas the update process should be ok, since the wxWidgets 3.2 version will be uploaded before the freeze.

Opencpn (current master, upcoming 5.8.0) builds fine using wxWidgets 3.2.

However, I get nag messages that opencpn will be removed from testing at November 8 unless I update it to using 3.2. Obviously, this makes me
nervous. Questions:

1) Is my overall plan ok?

I guess this *might* work; Soft-Freeze is gonan be 2023-02-12, if they
package is not in testing at that day, it won't be in bookworm.
So there is some risk if any delays are happening with upstream release timeline…

2) If so, how handle the threat of being removed from testing?

Don't see that as a threat. Sure it is annoying but testing removal
is temporary and as you package will be still in backports, people
should be able to install from there, if they are on stable…
If they are on testing, well, that is the peril of testing.

Evenutally the release team will force the removal of wxwidgets,
regardless of the bug; for exact timing you might want to reach
out to the people driving the transition and ask them…

More generally, any response to a release critical bug will restart
the removal timer. So if you reply to the bugs below, and document
the plan, this will reset the timer, so you can delay the automatic
removal a bit. However, that will not stop the release team for
manually removal; contrary, they might be unhappy if people using
this as tactic to delay autoremovals, as this creates work for them.

Said that, a reply to the bug laying out the plan should be done anyways, because this is useful information for many… (If there is an upstream discussion, set the Forwarded: BTS metainfo to link to that discussion)

--
tobi

Cheers!
--alec

[1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1019769
[2] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1019765

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On Fri, 28 Oct 2022, Alec Leamas wrote:

Hi Tobias!

Thanks for takin time to reply!

On 28/10/2022 11:00, Tobias Frost wrote:

Hi Alec,
On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 10:15:49AM +0200, Alec Leamas wrote:

The core issue here is opencpn, wxsvg is a dependency. The problem with
opencpn is that it has a plugin universe, and updating the current 5.6.2 >>> version to wxWidgets 3.2 would break the plugin ABI.

Hi Alec,

Your plan to wait until 5.8 comes out is probably fine. However, just
curious - if you switched opencpn to use wx 3.2 now, couldn't you just rebuild/binNMU the plugins? Or are you trying to avoid that extra effort?

Regards,
Scott

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Hi Scott,

On 28/10/2022 15:57, Scott Talbert wrote:

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022, Alec Leamas wrote:

Hi Tobias!

Thanks for takin time to reply!

On 28/10/2022 11:00, Tobias Frost wrote:

Hi Alec,
On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 10:15:49AM +0200, Alec Leamas wrote:

The core issue here is opencpn, wxsvg is a dependency. The problem with >>>> opencpn is that it has a plugin universe, and updating the current
5.6.2
version to wxWidgets 3.2 would break the plugin ABI.

Hi Alec,

Your plan to wait until 5.8 comes out is probably fine.  However, just curious - if you switched opencpn to use wx 3.2 now, couldn't you just rebuild/binNMU the plugins?  Or are you trying to avoid that extra effort?

Plugins are not packaged, opencpn loads external plugins. And yes, there
is a warning dialog for loading unpackaged sw...

Expanding on this: plugin checks the os version, basically deems
themselves as compatible if built for Debian 10 or 11. There are
provisions to build separate ABI:s for the same version (here 11), but
it's complicated and we want to avoid it.

That is, Debian 11/wxW 3.0 and Debian 12/wxW 3.2 is the two natural combinations we want to use. This makes the plugin compatibility issue
so much simpler.

Cheers!
--alec

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