Adam Borowski dijo [Wed, Mar 08, 2017 at 10:20:15PM +0100]:

(...) And as for non-copyleft licenses, there's way too many of them
to rationally choose.

Alas, I have a problem:
* I can't seem to find a single die
* I have no ChaosKey or similar true random generator
* my CPU has no rdrand so I can't even let Intel rig my choice

Here you have a notarized-legal, perefectly randomly produced number
"Four". Use it as will.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1

iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJYwH+hAAoJEGc6A+TB25IfOG4P/jPk93ZokLhw8hcXoXYUxW3q m6/0cURKBMsjidCzs/a4qHbdZBp8kDRcS0uk8ZvlX5bcbq+CKyIxo4I17hPKyR+R yVqqXLMj93yQx0zhdz87dMfw8UtVP6z+gPtGuhfW2Q9f4iBi+3otLhtznI5cOE6R ZCBrul81Xk+tbBDunQyxYbBOaJUi0OLPMG94DSgHTkr6CWOoGoEgHdTtHD6rG5ba A4fVeMTeXYK4VggtU4VN4dXctPW9bFwYAFdydzFSSPUV1HB9oNSc3cEue2Fabc6T SbH24yG8vIC1CWnCihn7ClyumLayDGjGGHEsXzv30A0XEPgTS/IP/FdOhuiaIw0Z FHTbALAFbw1rkKU6EjFTZSyIBX0rsx+4DNbzi5uSuMopcCaBslRfCZjvfqCqNibs AKNBZSGQ7e0ivi5OnG4Sm15LaZ1xKN4ohx3DdgHT/UBA7gUTDT9eeNBbpNQjsSeg 7pZ0hS2JuoTdmTRGMY6aOwc+WAp5QbGsIk5JOXIYu3h5kxESyH2Yd3TpOqe53/pO 6LTtkLZfdYVKOdBr0grToPrTU2DRxRugoGSyF5UzDs86Ur+bQLVsUd5k1usFLTKH 1ijW0rTTCCFnMYmhtG/BS62HLESj5JUhE9AuqQqKhxLx21EUuoIFc6ekWYxnq+P7 VnUfB4NU6kg31rZgwzj+
=XrGL
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 14605 March 1977, Adam Borowski wrote:

And as for non-copyleft licenses, there's way too many of them to
rationally choose.

There are too many licenses, lets make one more.
https://xkcd.com/927/

Good it didn't work out.

Thus, could anyone help, and pick a license that would get accepted? Either a pull request at https://github.com/kilobyte/braillegraph or a mail would
be swell.

When in doubt, take MIT.

--
bye, Joerg

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Hrm, looks like I have a problem with a ftpmaster being in denial.

# Cat Supremacy License, version √-1
#
# Everyone who recognizes the superiority of the species Felis catus over
# mere Homo sapiens is hereby gladly granted the right to use, modify,
# distribute, sell, borrow, give, steal, pee on, print out and use as a
# kindle, deface, scribble on, give less, more or same respect as $PRESIDENT
# of $YOUR_COUNTRY gives to the Constitution, etc, and so on, this software;
# with or without modifications, in either a preferred or unpreferred form
# for modification, with or without a fee of any kind.
#
# Those who have yet to mend the error of their ways are also given all of
# the above rights, albeit grudgingly.

Obviously, the two above sets are not complementary: for example, you may
still be in an unrelated error while admitting the superiority of the Master Species. An example might be trying to give "Kitty" brand food by Mispol SA
to your master -- it has been declared as inedible by a local expert in
these matters.

On the other hand, it is clear that all humans belong to at least one of
these sets, at least at present and in foreseable future.

Thus, I'm trying to find out what's wrong. If someone gene-splices humans
with cats to create something even more glorious, the result won't be a
human anymore -- if you put little enough of cat to remain a Homo Sapiens,
you won't be superior or equal.

The only scenario I managed to think of is, if the Earth is to be destroyed
and a group of humans manage to escape while not having their priorities straight (ie, not rescuing a single pair of cats), then obviously an
existant species, no matter how bad, will be superior to one that's not
there.


On Wed, Mar 08, 2017 at 08:00:09PM +0000, Thorsten Alteholz wrote:

Hi Adam,

I don't think that cats are superior and given the behaviour of my cats
I know that this is not erroneous. Why may I not print out your software?

The worst part of denial about being in error is that you believe you don't need to take any steps to rectify it.

As Wikipedia says:

# Denial of denial
#
# This can be a difficult concept for many people to identify with in
# themselves, but is a major barrier to changing hurtful behaviors. Denial
# of denial involves thoughts, actions and behaviors which bolster
# confidence that nothing needs to be changed in one's personal behavior.
# This form of denial typically overlaps with all of the other forms of
# denial, but involves more self-delusion.

===

Please feel free to respond to this email if you don't understand why
your files were rejected, or if you upload new files which address our concerns.

Not sure how to fix this. I can't fix the ftpmaster, thus replacing the license is probably easiest. The default choice, GPL, doesn't fit here
as the program is too easy to recreate, thus it'd result merely in those
with different beliefs about licensing to waste a bit of time. And as for non-copyleft licenses, there's way too many of them to rationally choose.

Alas, I have a problem:
* I can't seem to find a single die
* I have no ChaosKey or similar true random generator
* my CPU has no rdrand so I can't even let Intel rig my choice


Thus, could anyone help, and pick a license that would get accepted? Either
a pull request at https://github.com/kilobyte/braillegraph or a mail would
be swell.

--
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ Meow!
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ Collisions shmolisions, let's see them find a collision or second
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ preimage for double rot13!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2017-03-08 at 22:20:15 +0100, Adam Borowski wrote:

Hrm, looks like I have a problem with a ftpmaster being in denial.
[...]
# Those who have yet to mend the error of their ways are also given all of
# the above rights, albeit grudgingly.
[...]
Thus, could anyone help, and pick a license that would get accepted? Either a pull request at https://github.com/kilobyte/braillegraph or a mail would
be swell.

What about changing the above phrase so that it is more evident that we
are talking of the complementary set?

Maybe something like:

# Those, human or otherwise, who don't recognise the above as truth are
# also etc.

It's hard to get people out of denial, but you can't expect perfection
out of members of an inferior species, and I suspect that a license is
not the right place to insist on it.

(Now, I suspect that the FTP masters won't be very happy to accept even
this patched version, but one could hope...)

also: meow!

--
Elena ``of Valhalla''

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2017-03-08, Adam Borowski wrote:

# Everyone who recognizes the superiority of the species Felis catus over
# mere Homo sapiens

[...]

# Those who have yet to mend the error of their ways

[...]

On the other hand, it is clear that all humans belong to at least one of these sets, at least at present and in foreseable future.

I cannot speak for "all humans", but as a robin, I hereby claim my right
to not be in either of these sets. After all, cats and humans are _both_ obviously inferior to glorious birds! Cheep!

-RTT

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, Mar 09, 2017 at 12:14:52PM -0600, Robin Tarsiger wrote:

I cannot speak for "all humans", but as a robin, I hereby claim my right
to not be in either of these sets. After all, cats and humans are _both_ obviously inferior to glorious birds! Cheep!

I, for one, welcome our new dinosaur overlords.


Enrico

--
GPG key: 4096R/634F4BD1E7AD5568 2009-05-08 Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org>

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

That's obviously a useless use of cat, as licensing orthogonally on any concept of superior species would be better replaced by a cut of tee.

Le 8 mars 2017 22:20:15 GMT+01:00, Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> a écrit :

Hrm, looks like I have a problem with a ftpmaster being in denial.

# Cat Supremacy License, version √-1
#
# Everyone who recognizes the superiority of the species Felis catus
over
# mere Homo sapiens is hereby gladly granted the right to use, modify,
# distribute, sell, borrow, give, steal, pee on, print out and use as a
# kindle, deface, scribble on, give less, more or same respect as
$PRESIDENT
# of $YOUR_COUNTRY gives to the Constitution, etc, and so on, this
software;
# with or without modifications, in either a preferred or unpreferred
form
# for modification, with or without a fee of any kind.
#
# Those who have yet to mend the error of their ways are also given all
of
# the above rights, albeit grudgingly.

Obviously, the two above sets are not complementary: for example, you
may
still be in an unrelated error while admitting the superiority of the
Master
Species. An example might be trying to give "Kitty" brand food by
Mispol SA
to your master -- it has been declared as inedible by a local expert in
these matters.

On the other hand, it is clear that all humans belong to at least one
of
these sets, at least at present and in foreseable future.

Thus, I'm trying to find out what's wrong. If someone gene-splices
humans
with cats to create something even more glorious, the result won't be a
human anymore -- if you put little enough of cat to remain a Homo
Sapiens,
you won't be superior or equal.

The only scenario I managed to think of is, if the Earth is to be
destroyed
and a group of humans manage to escape while not having their
priorities
straight (ie, not rescuing a single pair of cats), then obviously an
existant species, no matter how bad, will be superior to one that's not >there.

On Wed, Mar 08, 2017 at 08:00:09PM +0000, Thorsten Alteholz wrote:

Hi Adam,

I don't think that cats are superior and given the behaviour of my

cats

I know that this is not erroneous. Why may I not print out your

software?

The worst part of denial about being in error is that you believe you
don't
need to take any steps to rectify it.

As Wikipedia says:

# Denial of denial
#
# This can be a difficult concept for many people to identify with in
# themselves, but is a major barrier to changing hurtful behaviors.
Denial
# of denial involves thoughts, actions and behaviors which bolster
# confidence that nothing needs to be changed in one's personal
behavior.
# This form of denial typically overlaps with all of the other forms of
# denial, but involves more self-delusion.

===

Please feel free to respond to this email if you don't understand why
your files were rejected, or if you upload new files which address

our

concerns.

Not sure how to fix this. I can't fix the ftpmaster, thus replacing
the
license is probably easiest. The default choice, GPL, doesn't fit here
as the program is too easy to recreate, thus it'd result merely in
those
with different beliefs about licensing to waste a bit of time. And as
for
non-copyleft licenses, there's way too many of them to rationally
choose.

Alas, I have a problem:
* I can't seem to find a single die
* I have no ChaosKey or similar true random generator
* my CPU has no rdrand so I can't even let Intel rig my choice

Thus, could anyone help, and pick a license that would get accepted?
Either
a pull request at https://github.com/kilobyte/braillegraph or a mail
would
be swell.

--
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ Meow!
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ Collisions shmolisions, let's see them find a collision or
second
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ preimage for double rot13!

--
Envoyé de mon appareil Android avec K-9 Mail. Veuillez excuser ma brièveté. <html><head></head><body>That&#39;s obviously a useless use of cat, as licensing orthogonally on any concept of superior species would be better replaced by a cut of tee.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">Le 8 mars 2017 22:20:15 GMT+01:00, Adam Borowski &
lt;kilobyte@angband.pl&gt; a écrit :<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class="k9mail">Hrm, looks like I have a problem with a ftpmaster being in denial.<br /><br /># Cat Supremacy License, version &radic;-1<br />#<br /># Everyone who recognizes the superiority of the species Felis catus over<br />#
mere Homo sapiens is hereby gladly granted the right to use, modify,<br /># distribute, sell, borrow, give, steal, pee on, print out and use as a<br /># kindle, deface, scribble on, give less, more or same respect as $PRESIDENT<br /># of $YOUR_COUNTRY
gives to

On Thu, Mar 09, 2017 at 12:14:52PM -0600, Robin Tarsiger wrote:

On 2017-03-08, Adam Borowski wrote:

# Everyone who recognizes the superiority of the species Felis catus over
# mere Homo sapiens

[...]

# Those who have yet to mend the error of their ways

[...]

On the other hand, it is clear that all humans belong to at least one of these sets, at least at present and in foreseable future.

I cannot speak for "all humans", but as a robin, I hereby claim my right
to not be in either of these sets. After all, cats and humans are _both_ obviously inferior to glorious birds! Cheep!

The license grant is to "Everyone who recognizes ..." and to "Those who have yet to mend the error of their ways". It doesn't say a word about a relationship between robins and humans, robins and cats, nor any other pair
of species other than specifically named "Felis catus" vs "Homo sapiens".

Neither are robins, sentient AIs, the Elder Gods or any other possible recipient excluded from the license grant -- it talks merely about their opinion about cats vs humans, which might be either:
* cats>humans
* wrong



Also, while your delusion about superiority of _robins_ is irrelevant to freeness of the license, I'd like to present a rebuttal.

First, one example cat, one who's currently occupying my bed, has confirmed kills (as in, delivered home) of at least tits, sparrows, pigeons and two bigass jackdaws[1]. Robins don't live inside a town but I don't see how
they differ from the above list enough to avoid being turned into a meal.

Second, Enrico mentioned dinosaurs. While the above cat deals with
dinosaurs I listed just fine, let's consider what an ordinary person would understand by this word: the big extinct type. Let's assume they're
revived, "Jurassic Park" style. And here comes the real secret of cat superiority: they delegate. Why would they fight a dangerous opponent themselves when they suborned an inferior species (humans) who are extremely good at hunting big prey (and wannabe predators)? That T-Rex would serve
well as contents of a can; they're presumed to taste like chicken.


[1]. How he managed to get the jackdaws over a windowsill that's human-chest-high when he was barely able to drag them over flat ground is beyond me -- but then, I'm a mere human, I'm not privy to cat ways.
--
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ Meow!
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ Collisions shmolisions, let's see them find a collision or second
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ preimage for double rot13!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, Mar 09, 2017 at 10:36:27PM +0100, Adam Borowski wrote:

Also, while your delusion about superiority of _robins_ is irrelevant to freeness of the license, I'd like to present a rebuttal.

Robins.

Because quantum.

https://phys.org/news/2011-01-quantum-robins.html http://physicscentral.com/explore/action/pia-entanglement.cfm http://richannel.org/jim-al-khalili-and-the-quantum-robin


Enrico

--
GPG key: 4096R/634F4BD1E7AD5568 2009-05-08 Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org>

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I wish you licence that text under cat licence, or, at option, above. While nested cat is unclear as licenced or not.

I ensure my cat is not reproductible, with any warranty based on Free Speech. Having a binary form which need some debugging (including severe bits), and an insurance I wouldn't pay in order to chare it.

Le 9 mars 2017 22:36:27 GMT+01:00, Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> a écrit :

On Thu, Mar 09, 2017 at 12:14:52PM -0600, Robin Tarsiger wrote:

On 2017-03-08, Adam Borowski wrote:

# Everyone who recognizes the superiority of the species Felis

catus over

# mere Homo sapiens

[...]

# Those who have yet to mend the error of their ways

[...]

On the other hand, it is clear that all humans belong to at least

one of

these sets, at least at present and in foreseable future.

I cannot speak for "all humans", but as a robin, I hereby claim my

right

to not be in either of these sets. After all, cats and humans are

_both_

obviously inferior to glorious birds! Cheep!

The license grant is to "Everyone who recognizes ..." and to "Those who
have
yet to mend the error of their ways". It doesn't say a word about a >relationship between robins and humans, robins and cats, nor any other
pair
of species other than specifically named "Felis catus" vs "Homo
sapiens".

Neither are robins, sentient AIs, the Elder Gods or any other possible >recipient excluded from the license grant -- it talks merely about
their
opinion about cats vs humans, which might be either:
* cats>humans
* wrong

Also, while your delusion about superiority of _robins_ is irrelevant
to
freeness of the license, I'd like to present a rebuttal.

First, one example cat, one who's currently occupying my bed, has
confirmed
kills (as in, delivered home) of at least tits, sparrows, pigeons and
two
bigass jackdaws[1]. Robins don't live inside a town but I don't see
how
they differ from the above list enough to avoid being turned into a
meal.

Second, Enrico mentioned dinosaurs. While the above cat deals with
dinosaurs I listed just fine, let's consider what an ordinary person
would
understand by this word: the big extinct type. Let's assume they're
revived, "Jurassic Park" style. And here comes the real secret of cat >superiority: they delegate. Why would they fight a dangerous opponent >themselves when they suborned an inferior species (humans) who are
extremely
good at hunting big prey (and wannabe predators)? That T-Rex would
serve
well as contents of a can; they're presumed to taste like chicken.

[1]. How he managed to get the jackdaws over a windowsill that's >human-chest-high when he was barely able to drag them over flat ground
is
beyond me -- but then, I'm a mere human, I'm not privy to cat ways.
--
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ Meow!
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ Collisions shmolisions, let's see them find a collision or
second
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ preimage for double rot13!

--
Envoyé de mon appareil Android avec K-9 Mail. Veuillez excuser ma brièveté. <html><head></head><body>I wish you licence that text under cat licence, or, at option, above. While nested cat is unclear as licenced or not.<br>

I ensure my cat is not reproductible, with any warranty based on Free Speech. Having a binary form which need some debugging (including severe bits), and an insurance I wouldn&#39;t pay in order to chare it.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">Le 9 mars 2017
22:36:27 GMT+01:00, Adam Borowski &lt;kilobyte@angband.pl&gt; a écrit :<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class="k9mail">On Thu, Mar 09, 2017 at 12:14:52PM -0600, Robin Tarsiger wrote:<br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"> On 2017-03-08, Adam Borowski wrote:<br /><
blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-l

On Thu, 9 Mar 2017 20:31:46 +0100, Enrico wrote in message <20170309193146.pvwrlt3qwgdw24v5@enricozini.org>:

On Thu, Mar 09, 2017 at 12:14:52PM -0600, Robin Tarsiger wrote:

I cannot speak for "all humans", but as a robin, I hereby claim my
right to not be in either of these sets. After all, cats and humans
are _both_ obviously inferior to glorious birds! Cheep!

I, for one, welcome our new dinosaur overlords.

Enrico

..careful on what you wish for, you might have it your way... https://guymcpherson.com/climate-chaos/climate-change-summary-and-update/

--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
Scenarios always come in sets of three:
best case, worst case, and just in case.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)