• Thank you (was: Re: [spam subject elided] (fwd))

    From Martin Steigerwald@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 4 10:50:01 2018
    Dear Alex, dear Dave, dear everyone.

    Alexander Wirt - 04.12.18, 07:47:
    On Mon, 03 Dec 2018, Marvin Renich wrote:
    * Jim Popovitch <jim@k4vqc.com> [181203 15:21]:
    How long should Dave wait out the problem before insulting folks?
    month, 2 months, 6 months, 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, 25 years?

    The correct answer is "much longer than 25 years".

    He should at least wait until he gets its facts right. Afair/afaik
    there never was any offer to help or constructive help we received
    from him.

    First off: Alex, thank you very much for your persistent and continued dedication to serve the project and all of us discussing on Debian mailinglists as a listmaster. I imagine that it can be challenging to
    deal with negativity like this.

    Now some random thoughts about this:

    Regarding spam there for me there is one most important rule: Never
    *ever* reply to spam, and never *ever* do so publicly. Why? In case of answering privately you tell the spam sender that your mail address
    exists or in case of forged from address to tell that to some other
    random account. In the case of responding publicly you *highlight* the

    I am highly successful with a Postscreen and rspamd based Spam-filtering
    setup and I did not see the original spam at all. My mail server just
    refused to receive it. Replying to the spam publicly just caused me to
    see it as well and so was in dis-service for me. Recently I did not even
    need any additional rules after having blocked whole domains of a mail provider with dubious domain names after they insulted me for sending
    them abuse complaints. But its mostly just my mail, I do not have the responsibility for anyone else. So I can afford to make it more
    aggressive and take a greater risk regarding false positives.

    While I see rspamd as a very viable alternative to my previous Spam-
    filtering setup, I am currently focused on other things than to offer
    help to the listmasters. But then I accept and am grateful for all I
    receive. Also I see the challenge to change the an existing setup,
    especially when it is as large-scale as I'd expect the existing setup
    for these mailing lists.

    That written: I also complained to listmasters about a certain repeated
    spam mail that appeared on almost every Debian mailing list I was
    subscribed to and was not acted upon. However I learned that I am much
    more at peace of mind if I just block it first with my mail server… and
    then notify listmasters in a friendly and constructive way. Cause then I
    do not give my power away and make my own peace of mind dependent on
    what listmasters may or may not do about it.

    Listmasters volunteer. They owe me *nothing*. They have a life outside
    of volunteering as a listmaster.

    All they give, they give freely without asking anything in return.

    The most appropriate reaction to this in my eyes is gratefulness.

    So again: Thank you, Alex, thank you, all listmasters for your time,
    your dedication and even that you put up with all the negativity that
    people who complain (including me as I did it) send towards you. I
    commit to stop complaining and to start helping where I can, and even if
    its just by reporting the spam mail via the web interface.

    Of course I know not everyone has their own mail server, but Dave, if
    you are proficient with anti spam measures and run your own mail server…
    why are you even affected? My anti spam measures, and I am certainly not
    an expert in this, blocked the original mail just fine. So if you do not
    like to spend the time to help listmasters, how about you just fix your
    own mail server not to accept mails like this in you are so proficient
    with anti spam measures?


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