• richiesta ordine (fwd)

    From Jim Popovitch@21:1/5 to Andreas Schindler on Mon Dec 3 21:00:02 2018
    On Mon, 2018-12-03 at 20:17 +0100, Andreas Schindler wrote:

    To the list moderator: How about banning Dave from the list? There was a similar case recently with the freeradius list and banning the offending person was quite a success.

    Silence the messenger? While Dave's frustration seemed to have gotten
    the best of him, he does still have a very legitimate point. The Debian
    lists do a piss poor job of blocking very obvious spam. Piss poor job.

    If your banning people for pointing out, for several years now, an
    obvious problem, then ban me too.

    -Jim P.

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  • From Andreas Schindler@21:1/5 to Dave Horsfall on Mon Dec 3 20:20:02 2018
    This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format.

    Dave,

    first of all: we don't appreciate help by someone calling us idiots.

    If you argue about spam solutions, you better take a look at
    spamassassin & friends, which BTW are part of every Debian distro, and
    provide for real sophisticated professional anti-spam, before you offer
    your ridiculous 'solution' to the list accompanied by disgusting insults.

    To the list moderator: How about banning Dave from the list? There was a similar case recently with the freeradius list and banning the offending
    person was quite a success.

    Dr. Andreas Schindler
    E-Mail: Andreas.Schindler@schindlerman.de

    On 02.12.18 23:57, Dave Horsfall wrote:
    Have you idiots ever thought of implementing some simple anti-spam measures?† I have offered my services (free) many times, but thus far
    have been ignored, so I can only assume that you lot are spam-supporters.

    Am I right?† As it happens, I am in the middle of upgrading a Penguin
    box; all you have to do is say the word, and it'll run FreeBSD instead.

    -- Dave


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  • From Jim Popovitch@21:1/5 to Tchie on Mon Dec 3 21:10:01 2018
    On Mon, 2018-12-03 at 11:52 -0800, Tao, Tchie wrote:
    I think the objections are to his tone.

    Well there are those here who would find fierce objections to top
    posting... ;-)

    That aside, I do think it's time for pitchforks+torches wrt the spam
    emanating bendel.debian.org. Dave's tone is warranted for a problem
    that has persisted, and continues to be nonchalantly addressed.  

    Yes, I know there are buttons to report spam that ends up in the d.o
    archives, but that is NOT a solution for spam that bendel.debian.org
    sends to Dave, me, and everyone else.

    -Jim P.

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  • From Tao, Tchie@21:1/5 to jim@k4vqc.com on Mon Dec 3 21:00:02 2018
    I think the objections are to his tone.

    On Mon, Dec 3, 2018, 11:51 Jim Popovitch <jim@k4vqc.com wrote:

    On Mon, 2018-12-03 at 20:17 +0100, Andreas Schindler wrote:

    To the list moderator: How about banning Dave from the list? There was
    a similar case recently with the freeradius list and banning the
    offending person was quite a success.

    Silence the messenger? While Dave's frustration seemed to have gotten
    the best of him, he does still have a very legitimate point. The Debian lists do a piss poor job of blocking very obvious spam. Piss poor job.

    If your banning people for pointing out, for several years now, an
    obvious problem, then ban me too.

    -Jim P.


    <div dir="auto">I think the objections are to his tone.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Mon, Dec 3, 2018, 11:51 Jim Popovitch &lt;<a href="mailto:jim@k4vqc.com">jim@k4vqc.com</a> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="
    margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Mon, 2018-12-03 at 20:17 +0100, Andreas Schindler wrote:<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; To the list moderator: How about banning Dave from the list? There was<br> &gt; a similar case recently with the freeradius list and banning the<br>
    &gt; offending person was quite a success.<br>

    Silence the messenger?   While Dave&#39;s frustration seemed to have gotten<br>
    the best of him, he does still have a very legitimate point.  The Debian<br> lists do a piss poor job of blocking very obvious spam.  Piss poor job.<br>

    If your banning people for pointing out, for several years now, an<br>
    obvious problem, then ban me too.<br>

    -Jim P.<br>
    </blockquote></div>

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  • From Tao, Tchie@21:1/5 to jim@k4vqc.com on Mon Dec 3 21:10:01 2018
    Perhaps someday he might learn to express his frustrations in some sort of constructive fashion rather than insulting folks and throwing a childish tantrum?

    On Mon, Dec 3, 2018, 12:04 Jim Popovitch <jim@k4vqc.com wrote:

    On Mon, 2018-12-03 at 11:52 -0800, Tao, Tchie wrote:
    I think the objections are to his tone.

    Well there are those here who would find fierce objections to top
    posting... ;-)

    That aside, I do think it's time for pitchforks+torches wrt the spam emanating bendel.debian.org. Dave's tone is warranted for a problem
    that has persisted, and continues to be nonchalantly addressed.

    Yes, I know there are buttons to report spam that ends up in the d.o archives, but that is NOT a solution for spam that bendel.debian.org
    sends to Dave, me, and everyone else.

    -Jim P.


    <div dir="auto">Perhaps someday he might learn to express his frustrations in some sort of constructive fashion rather than insulting folks and throwing a childish tantrum?</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Mon, Dec 3, 2018, 12:04 Jim
    Popovitch &lt;<a href="mailto:jim@k4vqc.com">jim@k4vqc.com</a> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Mon, 2018-12-03 at 11:52 -0800, Tao, Tchie wrote:<br>
    &gt; I think the objections are to his tone.<br>

    Well there are those here who would find fierce objections to top<br> posting... ;-)<br>

    That aside, I do think it&#39;s time for pitchforks+torches wrt the spam<br> emanating <a href="http://bendel.debian.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">bendel.debian.org</a>.  Dave&#39;s tone is warranted for a problem<br>
    that has persisted, and continues to be nonchalantly addressed.  <br>

    Yes, I know there are buttons to report spam that ends up in the d.o<br> archives, but that is NOT a solution for spam that <a href="http://bendel.debian.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">bendel.debian.org</a><br>
    sends to Dave, me, and everyone else.<br>

    -Jim P.<br>
    </blockquote></div>

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  • From Alexander Wirt@21:1/5 to Jim Popovitch on Mon Dec 3 21:40:02 2018
    On Mon, 03 Dec 2018, Jim Popovitch wrote:

    On Mon, 2018-12-03 at 12:07 -0800, Tao, Tchie wrote:
    Perhaps someday he might learn to express his frustrations in some
    sort of constructive fashion rather than insulting folks and throwing
    a childish tantrum?

    And perhaps someday the spammers will learn to respect others... but I'm
    not holding my breath.

    How long should Dave wait out the problem before insulting folks? 1
    month, 2 months, 6 months, 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, 25 years? At
    what point should constructive feedback yield to insults, and at what
    point should insults yield to violence?

    If your answer to that last question is "never", then I suggest you
    study some history. ;-)
    I never got any patch of you for our anti spam measures, neither do I got something from Dave.

    Alex - Debian Listmaster


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  • From Alexander Wirt@21:1/5 to Jim Popovitch on Mon Dec 3 22:10:03 2018
    On Mon, 03 Dec 2018, Jim Popovitch wrote:

    On Mon, 2018-12-03 at 21:38 +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
    I never got any patch of you for our anti spam measures, neither do I
    got something from Dave.†

    Alex - Debian Listmaster

    Patch? I think you've identified the problem.

    A start would be to tighten or remove any out-of-the box changes made to spamassassin. Let's be clear, your current setup only set a score of 2
    for an email that:

    1) contained a shortened URL
    2) was From: a freemail address
    3) fails SPF for outlook.it
    4) contains blacklisted received headers (ZEN, PBL, Barraacuda)
    5) promotes Instagram to a technical laptop discussion list.

    That email should have scored at least a 5 or 6 in stock Spamassassin
    rules.
    We can give it a try, just for this list. But tbh, you have really no idea
    how much spam we catch.


    Further, email headers show you have Amavis with a threshold score of
    5.3 and Spamassasin with a threshold of 4.0. Which one will "win"?

    But really, you would be better served by just enabling some RBL checks
    in Spamassassin and getting rid of Amavis.
    Getting rid of amavis wouldn't change anything.
    We would still call SA.



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  • From Jim Popovitch@21:1/5 to Tchie on Mon Dec 3 21:30:01 2018
    On Mon, 2018-12-03 at 12:07 -0800, Tao, Tchie wrote:
    Perhaps someday he might learn to express his frustrations in some
    sort of constructive fashion rather than insulting folks and throwing
    a childish tantrum?

    And perhaps someday the spammers will learn to respect others... but I'm
    not holding my breath.

    How long should Dave wait out the problem before insulting folks? 1
    month, 2 months, 6 months, 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, 25 years? At
    what point should constructive feedback yield to insults, and at what
    point should insults yield to violence?

    If your answer to that last question is "never", then I suggest you
    study some history. ;-)

    -Jim P.
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  • From Jim Popovitch@21:1/5 to Alexander Wirt on Mon Dec 3 22:20:01 2018
    On Mon, 2018-12-03 at 22:05 +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
    On Mon, 03 Dec 2018, Jim Popovitch wrote:

    On Mon, 2018-12-03 at 21:38 +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
    I never got any patch of you for our anti spam measures, neither
    do I
    got something from Dave. 

    Alex - Debian Listmaster

    Patch?   I think you've identified the problem.

    A start would be to tighten or remove any out-of-the box changes
    made to
    spamassassin. Let's be clear, your current setup only set a score of
    2
    for an email that:

    1) contained a shortened URL
    2) was From: a freemail address
    3) fails SPF for outlook.it
    4) contains blacklisted received headers (ZEN, PBL, Barraacuda)
    5) promotes Instagram to a technical laptop discussion list.

    That email should have scored at least a 5 or 6 in stock
    Spamassassin
    rules.

    We can give it a try, just for this list. But tbh, you have really no
    idea how much spam we catch.

    That's good, and Thank you for that.


    Further, email headers show you have Amavis with a threshold score
    of 5.3 and Spamassasin with a threshold of 4.0.  Which one will
    "win"?

    But really, you would be better served by just enabling some RBL
    checks in Spamassassin and getting rid of Amavis.

    Getting rid of amavis wouldn't change anything. 
    We would still call SA. 

    Why involve Amavis then? If it's not being used, then it's just another potential point of failure in the mail process.

    -Jim P.


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  • From Alexander Wirt@21:1/5 to Jim Popovitch on Mon Dec 3 22:30:01 2018
    On Mon, 03 Dec 2018, Jim Popovitch wrote:

    On Mon, 2018-12-03 at 22:05 +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
    On Mon, 03 Dec 2018, Jim Popovitch wrote:

    On Mon, 2018-12-03 at 21:38 +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
    I never got any patch of you for our anti spam measures, neither
    do I
    got something from Dave.†

    Alex - Debian Listmaster

    Patch?†††I think you've identified the problem.

    A start would be to tighten or remove any out-of-the box changes
    made to
    spamassassin. Let's be clear, your current setup only set a score of
    2
    for an email that:

    1) contained a shortened URL
    2) was From: a freemail address
    3) fails SPF for outlook.it
    4) contains blacklisted received headers (ZEN, PBL, Barraacuda)
    5) promotes Instagram to a technical laptop discussion list.

    That email should have scored at least a 5 or 6 in stock
    Spamassassin
    rules.

    We can give it a try, just for this list. But tbh, you have really no
    idea how much spam we catch.

    That's good, and Thank you for that.


    Further, email headers show you have Amavis with a threshold score
    of 5.3 and Spamassasin with a threshold of 4.0.††Which one will
    "win"?

    But really, you would be better served by just enabling some RBL
    checks in Spamassassin and getting rid of Amavis.

    Getting rid of amavis wouldn't change anything.†
    We would still call SA.†

    Why involve Amavis then? If it's not being used, then it's just another potential point of failure in the mail process.
    it is used for several things, like a viruscanner, language specific spamassassin sets and some other things. Removing it wouldn't get you better
    SA results.

    Alex


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