• The following packages have been kept back

    From Dave Horsfall@21:1/5 to All on Sun Nov 18 20:50:02 2018
    Latest Debian 8 (will go to 9 soon) on Acer Aspire E15

    root@debbie:/home/dave# apt-get upgrade
    Reading package lists... Done
    Building dependency tree
    Reading state information... Done
    Calculating upgrade... Done
    The following packages have been kept back:
    firmware-linux-nonfree
    The following packages will be upgraded:
    firmware-atheros
    1 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.

    What on earth does that mean? I have "non-free" listed in sources.list
    (which this list told me to do).

    -- Dave

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  • From bartender@21:1/5 to All on Sun Nov 18 23:20:02 2018
    open synaptic
    left click all
    F6
    down arrow
    firmware-linux-nonfree
    right click firmware-linux-nonfree
    choose properties
    let us know what it says
    esc
    firmware-atheros
    right click firmware-atheros
    properties
    report back to us


    Ciao!
    ///
    //////// |(°) . \\\
    //////// - | : \\\\
    //////// - | : \\\\
    //////// |(°) ' \\\
    ///


    ---- Dave Horsfall <dave@horsfall.org> wrote:

    =============
    Latest Debian 8 (will go to 9 soon) on Acer Aspire E15

    root@debbie:/home/dave# apt-get upgrade
    Reading package lists... Done
    Building dependency tree
    Reading state information... Done
    Calculating upgrade... Done
    The following packages have been kept back:
    firmware-linux-nonfree
    The following packages will be upgraded:
    firmware-atheros
    1 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.

    What on earth does that mean? I have "non-free" listed in sources.list
    (which this list told me to do).

    -- Dave

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Horsfall@21:1/5 to bartender on Mon Nov 19 00:20:01 2018
    On Sun, 18 Nov 2018, bartender wrote:

    [ Helpful list ]

    report back to us

    OK...

    firmware-linux-nonfree:
    Status: Installed (upgradeable)
    Installed Version: 0.43
    Latest: 20161130-4-deb8d

    firmware-atheros:
    Status: Installed
    Version: 20161130-4-deb8d
    Latest: 20161130-4-deb8d

    That firmware-linux-nonfree certainly looks odd.

    Keep in mind that when it comes to Linux (esp. Debian), I'm still a newbie,
    as I mostly use FreeBSD and Mac...

    -- Dave

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  • From Dave Horsfall@21:1/5 to Dave Horsfall on Mon Nov 19 03:10:02 2018
    On Mon, 19 Nov 2018, Dave Horsfall wrote:

    [ ... ]

    That firmware-linux-nonfree certainly looks odd.

    Well, I dunno if this post had anything to do with it (thanks if so!) but
    the updater suddenly notified me...

    -- Dave

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Marvin Renich@21:1/5 to All on Mon Nov 19 16:30:02 2018
    * Dave Horsfall <dave@horsfall.org> [181118 14:42]:
    Latest Debian 8 (will go to 9 soon) on Acer Aspire E15

    root@debbie:/home/dave# apt-get upgrade
    Reading package lists... Done
    Building dependency tree
    Reading state information... Done
    Calculating upgrade... Done
    The following packages have been kept back:
    firmware-linux-nonfree
    The following packages will be upgraded:
    firmware-atheros
    1 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.

    What on earth does that mean? I have "non-free" listed in sources.list (which this list told me to do).

    The apt-get upgrade command does a "safe" upgrade; it will not install
    any new packages or delete obsolete packages, nor will it upgrade any
    package whose new version would require such.

    If you say apt-get install firmware-linux-nonfree it should tell you
    what it is going to do and ask for confirmation if any other packages
    will be installed or removed.

    I believe, in this case, the new version of firmware-linux-nonfree
    depends on firmware-amd-graphics and firmware-misc-nonfree, which the
    old package does not require. The upgrade command will refuse to do
    this automatically, but the install command should work just fine.

    It used to be that aptitude was the recommended tool for managing
    packages within a terminal window; it can be used as a command line tool
    the way apt-get can, but if you don't give it a command (i.e. just say aptitude) it uses a curses interface to allow you to manage the
    packages (sort of like synaptic, but for a terminal window).

    At some point, I think about 10-15 years ago (but don't quote me on
    that), aptitude's resolver was changed, and it became less helpful. The resolver is the part of aptitude and apt-get which takes what you have
    asked it to do and figures out what other actions need to be done to
    achieve that. The resolver in apt-get did a better job of choosing a
    more useful solution.

    Because of that, the next release of Debian started recommending apt-get instead. However, apt-get only has a command line interface, not a curses-based interface, so it is harder to choose between multiple ways
    to satisfy dependencies (e.g. when a package Recommends: package-a |
    package-b, and package-a and package-b have different dependencies
    themselves).

    I still use aptitude in curses mode most of the time, using apt-get or
    aptitude command line mode in only limited situations. And I also
    recommend aptitude for some users who have at least a basic
    understanding of how package dependencies work. I put the following
    snippet in a file in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/ to help the resolver make
    better choices:

    Aptitude::ProblemResolver {
    SolutionCost "priority, removals, canceled-actions";
    }

    Aptitude is no longer installed in a default installation, so you will
    probably have to install it with apt-get install aptitude if you want
    to try it out.

    ...Marvin

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  • From Matus UHLAR - fantomas@21:1/5 to Marvin Renich on Mon Nov 19 17:20:01 2018
    * Dave Horsfall <dave@horsfall.org> [181118 14:42]:
    Latest Debian 8 (will go to 9 soon) on Acer Aspire E15

    root@debbie:/home/dave# apt-get upgrade
    Reading package lists... Done
    Building dependency tree
    Reading state information... Done
    Calculating upgrade... Done
    The following packages have been kept back:
    firmware-linux-nonfree
    The following packages will be upgraded:
    firmware-atheros
    1 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.

    What on earth does that mean? I have "non-free" listed in sources.list
    (which this list told me to do).

    On 19.11.18 10:09, Marvin Renich wrote:
    The apt-get upgrade command does a "safe" upgrade; it will not install
    any new packages or delete obsolete packages, nor will it upgrade any
    package whose new version would require such.

    I use unattended-upgrades for security upgrades and manual aptitude in these cases.

    If you say «apt-get install firmware-linux-nonfree» it should tell you
    what it is going to do and ask for confirmation if any other packages
    will be installed or removed.

    I would call this unfortunate, because security update should not bring new packages unless really needed.

    I believe, in this case, the new version of firmware-linux-nonfree
    depends on firmware-amd-graphics and firmware-misc-nonfree, which the
    old package does not require.

    I think so.

    The upgrade command will refuse to do
    this automatically, but the install command should work just fine.

    apt-get dist-upgrade would do that too, but I wouldn't recommend doing this unless you are upgrading your debian version.

    It used to be that aptitude was the recommended tool for managing
    packages within a terminal window; it can be used as a command line tool
    the way apt-get can, but if you don't give it a command (i.e. just say >«aptitude») it uses a curses interface to allow you to manage the
    packages (sort of like synaptic, but for a terminal window).

    I still use it and I'm glad aptitude exists.
    I use it when upgrading debian (takes more time but shortens outages) to upgrade packages selectively.

    At some point, I think about 10-15 years ago (but don't quote me on
    that), aptitude's resolver was changed, and it became less helpful. The >resolver is the part of aptitude and apt-get which takes what you have
    asked it to do and figures out what other actions need to be done to
    achieve that. The resolver in apt-get did a better job of choosing a
    more useful solution.

    I disable aptitude to automatically resolve dependencies. Those manually selected often suck. But, when you can select what you want (using . and ,)
    we can select.

    Worse is, that between jessie and stretch, something in aptitude has
    changed, so when I select to upgrade package and don't like the result, selecting "keep" by pressing ":" on a package doesn't revert to previous
    state as did the jessie version.

    --
    Matus UHLAR - fantomas, uhlar@fantomas.sk ; http://www.fantomas.sk/
    Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address.
    Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu.
    It's now safe to throw off your computer.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From bartender@21:1/5 to bartender on Mon Nov 19 21:10:02 2018
    Installed Version: 0.43
    Latest: 20161130-4-deb8d
    "

    This is the clue. If I remember correctly, "20161130-4-deb8d" hit the press when folks were automatically upgraded to Debian 9.6. When we accepted the new system we got this one. Do this :

    synaptic
    at the top of page you will see
    "
    Mark all upgrades
    "

    choose/click that

    apply should light up

    if, double/click apply or cntrl-p then space bar

    give us a follow/up




    Ciao, Ragazzo!
    ///
    //////// |(°) . \\\
    //////// - | : \\\\
    //////// - | : \\\\
    //////// |(°) ' \\\
    ///


    ---- Dave Horsfall <dave@horsfall.org> wrote:

    =============
    On Sun, 18 Nov 2018, bartender wrote:

    [ Helpful list ]

    report back to us

    OK...

    firmware-linux-nonfree:
    Status: Installed (upgradeable)
    Installed Version: 0.43
    Latest: 20161130-4-deb8d

    firmware-atheros:
    Status: Installed
    Version: 20161130-4-deb8d
    Latest: 20161130-4-deb8d

    That firmware-linux-nonfree certainly looks odd.

    Keep in mind that when it comes to Linux (esp. Debian), I'm still a newbie,
    as I mostly use FreeBSD and Mac...

    -- Dave

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  • From Marvin Renich@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 20 19:50:01 2018
    * Matus UHLAR - fantomas <uhlar@fantomas.sk> [181119 11:13]:
    On 19.11.18 10:09, Marvin Renich wrote:
    If you say apt-get install firmware-linux-nonfree it should tell you
    what it is going to do and ask for confirmation if any other packages
    will be installed or removed.

    I would call this unfortunate, because security update should not bring new packages unless really needed.

    This does not appear to be a security update, but (looking at the
    version numbers involved) a release upgrade from jessie to stretch,
    though I could be wrong. Security updates, in general, do not add or
    remove dependencies without a real need. The security team is very
    sensitive to this. Also, unattended-upgrades does not simply do apt-get upgrade; I believe it does allow changing dependencies.

    I'm not sure why you say apt-get install ... asking for confirmation
    is unfortunate (or were you saying something else?).

    ...Marvin

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  • From Matus UHLAR - fantomas@21:1/5 to Marvin Renich on Tue Nov 20 20:30:02 2018
    On 19.11.18 10:09, Marvin Renich wrote:
    If you say «apt-get install firmware-linux-nonfree» it should tell you >> > what it is going to do and ask for confirmation if any other packages
    will be installed or removed.

    * Matus UHLAR - fantomas <uhlar@fantomas.sk> [181119 11:13]:
    I would call this unfortunate, because security update should not bring new >> packages unless really needed.

    On 20.11.18 13:39, Marvin Renich wrote:
    This does not appear to be a security update, but (looking at the
    version numbers involved) a release upgrade from jessie to stretch,
    though I could be wrong. Security updates, in general, do not add or
    remove dependencies without a real need. The security team is very
    sensitive to this.

    It's an update due to a security bug, so I believe it's correct to call it a security update.

    However it happened in jessie that is in LTS state, so it's not the security but the LTS team who took care of that.

    Also, unattended-upgrades does not simply do apt-get
    upgrade; I believe it does allow changing dependencies.

    I didn't say that, I just noted that both unattended-upgrades and
    "apt-get upgrade" seem to behave the same way here.

    I'm not sure why you say «apt-get install ...» asking for confirmation
    is unfortunate (or were you saying something else?).

    unfortunate is that a security update bringsa in a new package when there
    seems to be no reason for that.
    I can understand that for wireshark or clamav if they bring new libraries
    with new ABI, but firmware doesn't seem to be the case.

    I may be wrong about the reasons of course.
    --
    Matus UHLAR - fantomas, uhlar@fantomas.sk ; http://www.fantomas.sk/
    Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address.
    Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu.
    I feel like I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe.

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