• Debian 11 freezes on Dell Latitude e6520

    From Miguel Ortiz =?UTF-8?B?TG9tYmFyZMOt@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 26 12:00:01 2021
    Hi,

    I have been using Debian on a Dell Latitude e6520 for ten years now.
    At present, it runs without problem an up-to-date Debian 10 system.

    From the beginning, before upgrading to any new release, I tried its
    live image. This strategy has always successfully allowed upgrading
    without stress. Sometimes I would do an upgrade, sometimes a clean new installation. The latter one was the case for Debian 10.

    Now, since Debian 11 was released earlier this year, I've been testing
    its behaviour on the machine. Unfortunately, even with the latest live
    image, including non-free firmware, the test is not passed. The
    computer boots well and the graphical interface (I tried my usual
    xfce, but also mate) appears neat and working. However, after a few
    moments varying from few seconds to no more than a couple of minutes,
    the system freezes completely. Impossible to open a console, there is
    no answer at all, only physical shutdown is possible.

    I have searched for other people having similar problems and found a
    forum where someone described the same issue with the Manjaro distro:

    https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?s=6d5881750b8f3ceb6a12708b3a7683c9&p=6287384#post6287384

    Unfortunately, the only advice given is to switch to another
    distribution (AntiX is mentioned) I would prefer to stay on Debian, but
    it's true that when support and security updates will arrive to an end
    for Debian 10, I will need to move anyway to a different distro if this
    problem is not solved.

    Incidentally, I must say that I'm also unable to run Tails on this
    machine since a few releases ago, for what looks as precisely the same
    problem.

    I wonder if this trouble could result from the upgrading of the kernel
    to version 5.x? Or from the newest versions of Xorg or the nouveau
    driver? By the way, I thought that the non-free nvidia module and not
    nouveau would be used in the live images with non-free firmware.

    The only debugging step I have managed to take during the few seconds
    where the system is running is capturing in a file, on another USB
    stick, the output of:

    # sudo dmesg -wH

    I have compared it with the results of the same command on my normally
    running Debian 10. But my capacities to extract from there any useful information are too limited. I hesitate to send those longs files to
    the list.

    Any clues would be welcomed.

    Cheers,

    -- mol


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  • From Andrew M.A. Cater@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 26 14:20:01 2021
    On Sun, Dec 26, 2021 at 11:47:27AM +0100, Miguel Ortiz Lombardía wrote:
    Hi,

    I have been using Debian on a Dell Latitude e6520 for ten years now.
    At present, it runs without problem an up-to-date Debian 10 system.

    From the beginning, before upgrading to any new release, I tried its
    live image. This strategy has always successfully allowed upgrading
    without stress. Sometimes I would do an upgrade, sometimes a clean new installation. The latter one was the case for Debian 10.

    Now, since Debian 11 was released earlier this year, I've been testing
    its behaviour on the machine. Unfortunately, even with the latest live
    image, including non-free firmware, the test is not passed. The
    computer boots well and the graphical interface (I tried my usual
    xfce, but also mate) appears neat and working. However, after a few
    moments varying from few seconds to no more than a couple of minutes,
    the system freezes completely. Impossible to open a console, there is
    no answer at all, only physical shutdown is possible.


    Hi Mol,

    How much memory? What graphics? If you have the Nvidia NV620 and 4GB
    it's probably best _not_ to use the live disk - it takes a large amount
    of memory to get the live CD to boot and if nouveau is not the ideal
    driver then you do get lockups and similar.

    If you are currently using the non-free drivers on Debian 10, then you
    could, potentially just upgrade to Debian 11 on the same hardware. I do
    find it easier to install a bare minimum text only system if feasible _then_ install the non-free drivers but that may not be possible for you.

    All the very best, as ever,

    Andy Cater

    I have searched for other people having similar problems and found a
    forum where someone described the same issue with the Manjaro distro:

    https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?s=6d5881750b8f3ceb6a12708b3a7683c9&p=6287384#post6287384

    Unfortunately, the only advice given is to switch to another
    distribution (AntiX is mentioned) I would prefer to stay on Debian, but
    it's true that when support and security updates will arrive to an end
    for Debian 10, I will need to move anyway to a different distro if this problem is not solved.

    Incidentally, I must say that I'm also unable to run Tails on this
    machine since a few releases ago, for what looks as precisely the same problem.

    I wonder if this trouble could result from the upgrading of the kernel
    to version 5.x? Or from the newest versions of Xorg or the nouveau
    driver? By the way, I thought that the non-free nvidia module and not
    nouveau would be used in the live images with non-free firmware.


    Nvidia non-free modules really need to be built per machine: nouveau
    is a good compromise.


    The only debugging step I have managed to take during the few seconds
    where the system is running is capturing in a file, on another USB
    stick, the output of:

    # sudo dmesg -wH

    I have compared it with the results of the same command on my normally running Debian 10. But my capacities to extract from there any useful information are too limited. I hesitate to send those longs files to
    the list.

    Any clues would be welcomed.

    Cheers,

    -- mol


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Miguel Ortiz =?UTF-8?B?TG9tYmFyZMOt@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 26 16:50:02 2021
    Hello Andy,

    Thank you for your answer.
    The computer has 8 Gb memory, a lot more than enough to load the image.
    The graphics are NVIDIA 4200M, with drivers provided, under Debian 10,
    by the legacy deb packages.

    Of course, I could try upgrading directly from Debian 10 and rely on
    the backups if something goes wrong. As said, I did that for previous releases... but only after having successfully made a test with the live
    image.

    But you gave me one idea: I'll try the “standard” live image, without
    any graphics and try to build from that to see what happens.

    Cheerio!

    mol



    El Sun, 26 Dec 2021 13:17:07 +0000
    "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> escribió:

    On Sun, Dec 26, 2021 at 11:47:27AM +0100, Miguel Ortiz Lombardía
    wrote:
    Hi,

    I have been using Debian on a Dell Latitude e6520 for ten years now.
    At present, it runs without problem an up-to-date Debian 10 system.

    From the beginning, before upgrading to any new release, I tried its
    live image. This strategy has always successfully allowed upgrading
    without stress. Sometimes I would do an upgrade, sometimes a clean
    new installation. The latter one was the case for Debian 10.

    Now, since Debian 11 was released earlier this year, I've been
    testing its behaviour on the machine. Unfortunately, even with the
    latest live image, including non-free firmware, the test is not
    passed. The computer boots well and the graphical interface (I
    tried my usual xfce, but also mate) appears neat and working.
    However, after a few moments varying from few seconds to no more
    than a couple of minutes, the system freezes completely. Impossible
    to open a console, there is no answer at all, only physical
    shutdown is possible.

    Hi Mol,

    How much memory? What graphics? If you have the Nvidia NV620 and 4GB
    it's probably best _not_ to use the live disk - it takes a large
    amount of memory to get the live CD to boot and if nouveau is not the
    ideal driver then you do get lockups and similar.

    If you are currently using the non-free drivers on Debian 10, then you
    could, potentially just upgrade to Debian 11 on the same hardware. I
    do find it easier to install a bare minimum text only system if
    feasible _then_ install the non-free drivers but that may not be
    possible for you.

    All the very best, as ever,

    Andy Cater

    I have searched for other people having similar problems and found a
    forum where someone described the same issue with the Manjaro
    distro:

    https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?s=6d5881750b8f3ceb6a12708b3a7683c9&p=6287384#post6287384

    Unfortunately, the only advice given is to switch to another
    distribution (AntiX is mentioned) I would prefer to stay on Debian,
    but it's true that when support and security updates will arrive to
    an end for Debian 10, I will need to move anyway to a different
    distro if this problem is not solved.

    Incidentally, I must say that I'm also unable to run Tails on this
    machine since a few releases ago, for what looks as precisely the
    same problem.

    I wonder if this trouble could result from the upgrading of the
    kernel to version 5.x? Or from the newest versions of Xorg or the
    nouveau driver? By the way, I thought that the non-free nvidia
    module and not nouveau would be used in the live images with
    non-free firmware.

    Nvidia non-free modules really need to be built per machine: nouveau
    is a good compromise.


    The only debugging step I have managed to take during the few
    seconds where the system is running is capturing in a file, on
    another USB stick, the output of:

    # sudo dmesg -wH

    I have compared it with the results of the same command on my
    normally running Debian 10. But my capacities to extract from there
    any useful information are too limited. I hesitate to send those
    longs files to the list.

    Any clues would be welcomed.

    Cheers,

    -- mol




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  • From Matus UHLAR - fantomas@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 26 18:00:01 2021
    On Sun, Dec 26, 2021 at 11:47:27AM +0100, Miguel Ortiz Lombardía
    Now, since Debian 11 was released earlier this year, I've been
    testing its behaviour on the machine. Unfortunately, even with the
    latest live image, including non-free firmware, the test is not
    passed. The computer boots well and the graphical interface (I
    tried my usual xfce, but also mate) appears neat and working.
    However, after a few moments varying from few seconds to no more
    than a couple of minutes, the system freezes completely. Impossible
    to open a console, there is no answer at all, only physical
    shutdown is possible.

    On 26.12.21 16:41, Miguel Ortiz Lombardía wrote:
    The computer has 8 Gb memory, a lot more than enough to load the image.
    The graphics are NVIDIA 4200M, with drivers provided, under Debian 10,
    by the legacy deb packages.

    apparently this requires nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver and its dependencies.
    I have no idea if these are available on live CD.

    Of course, I could try upgrading directly from Debian 10 and rely on
    the backups if something goes wrong. As said, I did that for previous >releases... but only after having successfully made a test with the live >image.

    But you gave me one idea: I'll try the “standard” live image, without
    any graphics and try to build from that to see what happens.

    if you can make the live image to use nvidia-390x driver, it should work.

    --
    Matus UHLAR - fantomas, uhlar@fantomas.sk ; http://www.fantomas.sk/
    Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address.
    Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu.
    Silvester Stallone: Father of the RISC concept.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From contactmail@use.startmail.com@21:1/5 to miguel@tremol.eu on Sun Dec 26 17:20:01 2021
    Bonjour,



    Comment on fait pour etre désinscrit de cette liste de diffusion svp?



    On Sunday, December 26, 2021 4:41 PM, "Miguel Ortiz Lombardía" <miguel@tremol.eu> wrote:


    Hello Andy,

    Thank you for your answer.
    The computer has 8 Gb memory, a lot more than enough to load the image.
    The graphics are NVIDIA 4200M, with drivers provided, under Debian 10,
    by the legacy deb packages.

    Of course, I could try upgrading directly from Debian 10 and rely on
    the backups if something goes wrong. As said, I did that for previous
    releases... but only after having successfully made a test with the live
    image.

    But you gave me one idea: I'll try the “standard” live image, without
    any graphics and try to build from that to see what happens.

    Cheerio!

    mol



    El Sun, 26 Dec 2021 13:17:07 +0000
    "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> escribió:

    > On Sun, Dec 26, 2021 at 11:47:27AM +0100, Miguel Ortiz Lombardía
    > wrote:
    > > Hi,
    > >
    > > I have been using Debian on a Dell Latitude e6520 for ten years now.
    > > At present, it runs without problem an up-to-date Debian 10 system.
    > >
    > > From the beginning, before upgrading to any new release, I tried its
    > > live image. This strategy has always successfully allowed upgrading
    > > without stress. Sometimes I would do an upgrade, sometimes a clean
    > > new installation. The latter one was the case for Debian 10.
    > >
    > > Now, since Debian 11 was released earlier this year, I've been
    > > testing its behaviour on the machine. Unfortunately, even with the
    > > latest live image, including non-free firmware, the test is not
    > > passed. The computer boots well and the graphical interface (I
    > > tried my usual xfce, but also mate) appears neat and working.
    > > However, after a few moments varying from few seconds to no more
    > > than a couple of minutes, the system freezes completely. Impossible
    > > to open a console, there is no answer at all, only physical
    > > shutdown is possible.
    >
    > Hi Mol,
    >
    > How much memory? What graphics? If you have the Nvidia NV620 and 4GB
    > it's probably best _not_ to use the live disk - it takes a large
    > amount of memory to get the live CD to boot and if nouveau is not the
    > ideal driver then you do get lockups and similar.
    >
    > If you are currently using the non-free drivers on Debian 10, then you
    > could, potentially just upgrade to Debian 11 on the same hardware. I
    > do find it easier to install a bare minimum text only system if
    > feasible _then_ install the non-free drivers but that may not be
    > possible for you.
    >
    > All the very best, as ever,
    >
    > Andy Cater
    >
    > > I have searched for other people having similar problems and found a
    > > forum where someone described the same issue with the Manjaro
    > > distro:
    > >
    > > https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?s=6d5881750b8f3ceb6a12708b3a7683c9&p=6287384#post6287384
    > >
    > > Unfortunately, the only advice given is to switch to another
    > > distribution (AntiX is mentioned) I would prefer to stay on Debian,
    > > but it's true that when support and security updates will arrive to
    > > an end for Debian 10, I will need to move anyway to a different
    > > distro if this problem is not solved.
    > >
    > > Incidentally, I must say that I'm also unable to run Tails on this
    > > machine since a few releases ago, for what looks as precisely the
    > > same problem.
    > >
    > > I wonder if this trouble could result from the upgrading of the
    > > kernel to version 5.x? Or from the newest versions of Xorg or the
    > > nouveau driver? By the way, I thought that the non-free nvidia
    > > module and not nouveau would be used in the live images with
    > > non-free firmware.
    >
    > Nvidia non-free modules really need to be built per machine: nouveau
    > is a good compromise.
    >
    >
    > > The only debugging step I have managed to take during the few
    > > seconds where the system is running is capturing in a file, on
    > > another USB stick, the output of:
    > >
    > > # sudo dmesg -wH
    > >
    > > I have compared it with the results of the same command on my
    > > normally running Debian 10. But my capacities to extract from there
    > > any useful information are too limited. I hesitate to send those
    > > longs files to the list.
    > >
    > > Any clues would be welcomed.
    > >
    > > Cheers,
    > >
    > > -- mol
    > >
    >
    >


    >




    --==============78997434224945876=Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><span class="font" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(59, 67, 92); --darkreader-inline-color: #c1bbb1;" data-darkreader-inline-color=""><span class="size"
    style="font-size: medium">Bonjour,</span></span></span><br /></div><p xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; margin: 0px; color: rgb(59, 67, 92); font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: medium; --darkreader-inline-color:
    #c1bbb1;" data-darkreader-inline-color=""><br /></p><p xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; margin: 0px; color: rgb(59, 67, 92); font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: medium; --darkreader-inline-color: #c1bbb1;" data-
    darkreader-inline-color=""><span class="font" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(59, 67, 92); --darkreader-inline-color: #c1bbb1;" data-darkreader-inline-color=""><span class="size" style="font-size:
    medium">Comment on fait pour etre désinscrit de cette liste de diffusion svp?</span></span></span><br /></p><div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><br /></div><p xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; margin: 0px;
    color: rgb(59, 67, 92); font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: medium; --darkreader-inline-color: #c1bbb1;" data-darkreader-inline-color="">On Sunday, December 26, 2021 4:41 PM, "Miguel Ortiz Lombardía" &lt;miguel@tremol.eu&gt; wrote:<br /></p><
    blockquote xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><pre xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" id="body.mime.1">Hello Andy,

    Thank you for your answer.
    The computer has 8 Gb memory, a lot more than enough to load the image.
    The graphics are NVIDIA 4200M, with drivers provided, under Debian 10,
    by the legacy deb packages.

    Of course, I could try upgrading directly from Debian 10 and rely on
    the backups if something goes wrong. As said, I did that for previous releases... but only after having successfully made a test with the live
    image.

    But you gave me one idea: I'll try the “standard” live image, without
    any graphics and try to build from that to see what happens.

    Cheerio!

    mol



    El Sun, 26 Dec 2021 13:17:07 +0000
    "Andrew M.A. Cater" &lt;amacater@einval.com&gt; escribió:

    &gt; On Sun, Dec 26, 2021 at 11:47:27AM +0100, Miguel Ortiz Lombardía
    &gt; wrote:
    &gt; &gt; Hi,
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt; I have been using Debian on a Dell Latitude e6520 for ten years now. &gt; &gt; At present, it runs without problem an up-to-date Debian 10 system. &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt; From the beginning, before upgrading to any new release, I tried its &gt; &gt; live image. This strategy has always successfully allowed upgrading &gt; &gt; without stress. Sometimes I would do an upgrade, sometimes a clean &gt; &gt; new installation. The latter one was the case for Debian 10.
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt; Now, since Debian 11 was released earlier this year, I've been
    &gt; &gt; testing its behaviour on the machine. Unfortunately, even with the &gt; &gt; latest live image, including non-free firmware, the test is not
    &gt; &gt; passed. The computer boots well and the graphical interface (I
    &gt; &gt; tried my usual xfce, but also mate) appears neat and working.
    &gt; &gt; However, after a few moments varying from few seconds to no more
    &gt; &gt; than a couple of minutes, the system freezes completely. Impossible &gt; &gt; to open a console, there is no answer at all, only physical
    &gt; &gt; shutdown is possible.
    &gt;
    &gt; Hi Mol,
    &gt;
    &gt; How much memory? What graphics? If you have the Nvidia NV620 and 4GB
    &gt; it's probably best _not_ to use the live disk - it takes a large
    &gt; amount of memory to get the live CD to boot and if nouveau is not the
    &gt; ideal driver then you do get lockups and similar.
    &gt;
    &gt; If you are currently using the non-free drivers on Debian 10, then you &gt; could, potentially just upgrade to Debian 11 on the same hardware. I
    &gt; do find it easier to install a bare minimum text only system if
    &gt; feasible _then_ install the non-free drivers but that may not be
    &gt; possible for you.
    &gt;
    &gt; All the very best, as ever,
    &gt;
    &gt; Andy Cater
    &gt;
    &gt; &gt; I have searched for other people having similar problems and found a &gt; &gt; forum where someone described the same issue with the Manjaro
    &gt; &gt; distro:
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt; https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?s=6d5881750b8f3ceb6a12708b3a7683c9&amp;p=6287384#post6287384
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt; Unfortunately, the only advice given is to switch to another
    &gt; &gt; distribution (AntiX is mentioned) I would prefer to stay on Debian, &gt; &gt; but it's true that when support and security updates will arrive to &gt; &gt; an end for Debian 10, I will need to move anyway to a different
    &gt; &gt; distro if this problem is not solved.
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt; Incidentally, I must say that I'm also unable to run Tails on this &gt; &gt; machine since a few releases ago, for what looks as precisely the &gt; &gt; same problem.
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt; I wonder if this trouble could result from the upgrading of the
    &gt; &gt; kernel to version 5.x? Or from the newest versions of Xorg or the &gt; &gt; nouveau driver? By the way, I thought that the non-free nvidia
    &gt; &gt; module and not nouveau would be used in the live images with
    &gt; &gt; non-free firmware.
    &gt;
    &gt; Nvidia non-free modules really need to be built per machine: nouveau
    &gt; is a good compromise.
    &gt;
    &gt;
    &gt; &gt; The only debugging step I have managed to take during the few
    &gt; &gt; seconds where the system is running is capturing in a file, on
    &gt; &gt; another USB stick, the output of:
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt; # sudo dmesg -wH
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt; I have compared it with the results of the same command on my
    &gt; &gt; normally running Debian 10. But my capacities to extract from there &gt; &gt; any useful information are too limited. I hesitate to send those
    &gt; &gt; longs files to the list.
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt; Any clues would be welcomed.
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt; Cheers,
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt; &gt; -- mol
    &gt; &gt;
    &gt;
    &gt;

    <br /></pre></blockquote><p xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; margin: 0px; color: rgb(59, 67, 92); font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: medium; --darkreader-inline-color: #c1bbb1;" data-darkreader-inline-color="">
    <br /></p>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andrew M.A. Cater@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 27 08:30:01 2021
    Thanks to David Christensen over on debian-user mailing list:

    Your E6520 is a hybrid laptop with two chipsets: one Intel graphics, one Nvidia. On battery power, it will use the Intel, when plugged in to higher resolution displays or whatever, it will use the Nvidia.

    This is also similar to high end gaming laptops.

    With the standard install, it's occasionally possible that conflict between which display chipset to use / nouveau drivers may mean lock-ups.

    There are three solutions possible, I think [I no longer have one of these
    to deal with]

    1. Ignore the Nvidia and use the Intel driver only. This will probably
    work to some extent. It may be necessary to deny list the Nvidia drivers

    2. Ignore the Intel and use the Nvidia drivers only - probably the non-free drivers

    3. Use the Optimus drivers which will allow the laptop to switch between chipsets. This is provided by the bumblebee package in Debian - and there are two types: one is a fully free driver and links in with nouveau, one relies
    on the Nvidia proprietary drivers.

    In my limited experience:

    It is easiest to start with an expert text mode install and explicitly uncheck/deselect the graphics drivers as you go: uncheck Debian graphical environment and Gnome.
    Install only the standard packages and minimal drivers - command line only.

    Install build-essential and dkms packages and also choose which bumblebee package to use and add it.

    If you choose to use the proprietary drivers - build them at this point
    with no major graphics drivers loaded. The proprietary drivers will taint
    the kernel. dkms - if properly installed - should build the necessary
    kernel drivers with each kernel change.

    At that point, everything should work on the command line.

    After that, reboot and as root/sudo equivalent, use the tasksel command
    to install a desktop environment. This _should_ allow everything to work correctly.

    Hope this helps. With every good wish, as ever,

    Andy Cater

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Miguel Ortiz =?UTF-8?B?TG9tYmFyZMOt@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 27 13:10:01 2021
    Thank you Matus.

    I'll try first Andy recommendations: making a custom live image is out
    of reach to me, I'm afraid.

    Best,

    mol

    El Sun, 26 Dec 2021 17:41:09 +0100
    Matus UHLAR - fantomas <uhlar@fantomas.sk> escribió:

    On Sun, Dec 26, 2021 at 11:47:27AM +0100, Miguel Ortiz Lombardía
    Now, since Debian 11 was released earlier this year, I've been
    testing its behaviour on the machine. Unfortunately, even with
    the latest live image, including non-free firmware, the test is
    not passed. The computer boots well and the graphical interface
    (I tried my usual xfce, but also mate) appears neat and working.
    However, after a few moments varying from few seconds to no more
    than a couple of minutes, the system freezes completely.
    Impossible to open a console, there is no answer at all, only
    physical shutdown is possible.

    On 26.12.21 16:41, Miguel Ortiz Lombardía wrote:
    The computer has 8 Gb memory, a lot more than enough to load the
    image. The graphics are NVIDIA 4200M, with drivers provided, under
    Debian 10, by the legacy deb packages.

    apparently this requires nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver and its
    dependencies. I have no idea if these are available on live CD.

    Of course, I could try upgrading directly from Debian 10 and rely on
    the backups if something goes wrong. As said, I did that for previous >releases... but only after having successfully made a test with the
    live image.

    But you gave me one idea: I'll try the “standard” live image, without >any graphics and try to build from that to see what happens.

    if you can make the live image to use nvidia-390x driver, it should
    work.


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  • From Miguel Ortiz =?UTF-8?B?TG9tYmFyZMOt@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 27 13:00:02 2021
    Wow! Thanks a lot to David and to you Andy!

    Yes, all that is right about the graphic cards. So far, I never had a
    problem with the installers (but never used the standard ones,
    actually) I will check whenever possible, but I sort of remember to
    have disable at some point the Optimus switch on the BIOS. If so, the
    Intel card should be disabled.

    Anyway, you give me some work to do :-) I'll try that as soon as
    possible.

    All the best,

    mol



    El Mon, 27 Dec 2021 07:28:02 +0000
    "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> escribió:

    Thanks to David Christensen over on debian-user mailing list:

    Your E6520 is a hybrid laptop with two chipsets: one Intel graphics,
    one Nvidia. On battery power, it will use the Intel, when plugged in
    to higher resolution displays or whatever, it will use the Nvidia.

    This is also similar to high end gaming laptops.

    With the standard install, it's occasionally possible that conflict
    between which display chipset to use / nouveau drivers may mean
    lock-ups.

    There are three solutions possible, I think [I no longer have one of
    these to deal with]

    1. Ignore the Nvidia and use the Intel driver only. This will probably
    work to some extent. It may be necessary to deny list the Nvidia
    drivers

    2. Ignore the Intel and use the Nvidia drivers only - probably the
    non-free drivers

    3. Use the Optimus drivers which will allow the laptop to switch
    between chipsets. This is provided by the bumblebee package in Debian
    - and there are two types: one is a fully free driver and links in
    with nouveau, one relies on the Nvidia proprietary drivers.

    In my limited experience:

    It is easiest to start with an expert text mode install and
    explicitly uncheck/deselect the graphics drivers as you go: uncheck
    Debian graphical environment and Gnome.
    Install only the standard packages and minimal drivers - command line
    only.

    Install build-essential and dkms packages and also choose which
    bumblebee package to use and add it.

    If you choose to use the proprietary drivers - build them at this
    point with no major graphics drivers loaded. The proprietary drivers
    will taint the kernel. dkms - if properly installed - should build
    the necessary kernel drivers with each kernel change.

    At that point, everything should work on the command line.

    After that, reboot and as root/sudo equivalent, use the tasksel
    command to install a desktop environment. This _should_ allow
    everything to work correctly.

    Hope this helps. With every good wish, as ever,

    Andy Cater


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  • From Andrew M.A. Cater@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 27 13:20:02 2021
    On Mon, Dec 27, 2021 at 12:58:51PM +0100, Miguel Ortiz Lombardía wrote:
    Wow! Thanks a lot to David and to you Andy!

    Yes, all that is right about the graphic cards. So far, I never had a
    problem with the installers (but never used the standard ones,
    actually) I will check whenever possible, but I sort of remember to
    have disable at some point the Optimus switch on the BIOS. If so, the
    Intel card should be disabled.

    Anyway, you give me some work to do :-) I'll try that as soon as
    possible.

    All the best,

    mol


    More than happy to help. I have had good results when using the bumblebee packages in the past. When I didn't have them, then I got lockups and mysterious problems. It took me about 3 days to work out how best to
    do the sequencing I've laid out above. The _crucial_ thing is not to
    use any graphical environment until after the drivers you want are compiled / installed and available.

    It was hard work to do once, then I forgot and had to do it all again
    and document it - so now I remember it well :)

    All the very best, as ever,

    Andy Cater


    El Mon, 27 Dec 2021 07:28:02 +0000
    "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> escribió:

    Thanks to David Christensen over on debian-user mailing list:

    Your E6520 is a hybrid laptop with two chipsets: one Intel graphics,
    one Nvidia. On battery power, it will use the Intel, when plugged in
    to higher resolution displays or whatever, it will use the Nvidia.

    This is also similar to high end gaming laptops.

    With the standard install, it's occasionally possible that conflict
    between which display chipset to use / nouveau drivers may mean
    lock-ups.

    There are three solutions possible, I think [I no longer have one of
    these to deal with]

    1. Ignore the Nvidia and use the Intel driver only. This will probably
    work to some extent. It may be necessary to deny list the Nvidia
    drivers

    2. Ignore the Intel and use the Nvidia drivers only - probably the
    non-free drivers

    3. Use the Optimus drivers which will allow the laptop to switch
    between chipsets. This is provided by the bumblebee package in Debian
    - and there are two types: one is a fully free driver and links in
    with nouveau, one relies on the Nvidia proprietary drivers.

    In my limited experience:

    It is easiest to start with an expert text mode install and
    explicitly uncheck/deselect the graphics drivers as you go: uncheck
    Debian graphical environment and Gnome.
    Install only the standard packages and minimal drivers - command line
    only.

    Install build-essential and dkms packages and also choose which
    bumblebee package to use and add it.

    If you choose to use the proprietary drivers - build them at this
    point with no major graphics drivers loaded. The proprietary drivers
    will taint the kernel. dkms - if properly installed - should build
    the necessary kernel drivers with each kernel change.

    At that point, everything should work on the command line.

    After that, reboot and as root/sudo equivalent, use the tasksel
    command to install a desktop environment. This _should_ allow
    everything to work correctly.

    Hope this helps. With every good wish, as ever,

    Andy Cater


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Matus UHLAR - fantomas@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 27 18:40:02 2021
    On 27.12.21 13:02, Miguel Ortiz Lombardía wrote:
    Thank you Matus.

    I'll try first Andy recommendations: making a custom live image is out
    of reach to me, I'm afraid.

    of course: more in-depth advices are usually better than advices how to find/guess the problem.
    just be safe and have backups.

    good luck

    El Sun, 26 Dec 2021 17:41:09 +0100
    Matus UHLAR - fantomas <uhlar@fantomas.sk> escribió:

    On Sun, Dec 26, 2021 at 11:47:27AM +0100, Miguel Ortiz Lombardía
    Now, since Debian 11 was released earlier this year, I've been
    testing its behaviour on the machine. Unfortunately, even with
    the latest live image, including non-free firmware, the test is
    not passed. The computer boots well and the graphical interface
    (I tried my usual xfce, but also mate) appears neat and working.
    However, after a few moments varying from few seconds to no more
    than a couple of minutes, the system freezes completely.
    Impossible to open a console, there is no answer at all, only
    physical shutdown is possible.

    On 26.12.21 16:41, Miguel Ortiz Lombardía wrote:
    The computer has 8 Gb memory, a lot more than enough to load the
    image. The graphics are NVIDIA 4200M, with drivers provided, under
    Debian 10, by the legacy deb packages.

    apparently this requires nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver and its
    dependencies. I have no idea if these are available on live CD.

    Of course, I could try upgrading directly from Debian 10 and rely on
    the backups if something goes wrong. As said, I did that for previous
    releases... but only after having successfully made a test with the
    live image.

    But you gave me one idea: I'll try the “standard” live image, without >> >any graphics and try to build from that to see what happens.

    if you can make the live image to use nvidia-390x driver, it should
    work.




    --
    Matus UHLAR - fantomas, uhlar@fantomas.sk ; http://www.fantomas.sk/
    Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address.
    Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu.
    (R)etry, (A)bort, (C)ancer

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mol@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 28 10:20:02 2021
    Yes, backups are essential!
    Thank you,

    mol



    El Mon, 27 Dec 2021 18:30:28 +0100
    Matus UHLAR - fantomas <uhlar@fantomas.sk> escribió:

    On 27.12.21 13:02, Miguel Ortiz Lombardía wrote:
    Thank you Matus.

    I'll try first Andy recommendations: making a custom live image is
    out of reach to me, I'm afraid.

    of course: more in-depth advices are usually better than advices how
    to find/guess the problem.
    just be safe and have backups.

    good luck

    El Sun, 26 Dec 2021 17:41:09 +0100
    Matus UHLAR - fantomas <uhlar@fantomas.sk> escribió:

    On Sun, Dec 26, 2021 at 11:47:27AM +0100, Miguel Ortiz
    Lombardía
    Now, since Debian 11 was released earlier this year, I've been
    testing its behaviour on the machine. Unfortunately, even with
    the latest live image, including non-free firmware, the test
    is not passed. The computer boots well and the graphical
    interface (I tried my usual xfce, but also mate) appears neat
    and working. However, after a few moments varying from few
    seconds to no more than a couple of minutes, the system
    freezes completely. Impossible to open a console, there is no
    answer at all, only physical shutdown is possible.

    On 26.12.21 16:41, Miguel Ortiz Lombardía wrote:
    The computer has 8 Gb memory, a lot more than enough to load the
    image. The graphics are NVIDIA 4200M, with drivers provided, under
    Debian 10, by the legacy deb packages.

    apparently this requires nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver and its
    dependencies. I have no idea if these are available on live CD.

    Of course, I could try upgrading directly from Debian 10 and rely
    on the backups if something goes wrong. As said, I did that for
    previous releases... but only after having successfully made a
    test with the live image.

    But you gave me one idea: I'll try the “standard” live image,
    without any graphics and try to build from that to see what
    happens.

    if you can make the live image to use nvidia-390x driver, it should
    work.





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