To: locutusofborg@debian.org (Gianfranco Costamagna)
To: sylvestre@debian.org (Sylvestre Ledru)
Copy: debian-release@lists.debian.org (debian-release)

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Dear LLVM maintainers,

As a Release Team member I'm wondering what your plan is with the
different version of llvm-toolchain-* we have in unstable and testing. Currently 4 versions in unstable [1], of which 2 are in testing (9 and
11) [2]. We have a transition bug open to track the removal of 9 [3]. I
notice that packages start to (build) depend on one of the two newer
version in unstable and fail to migrate as the two latest llvm versions
are not migrating due to RC bugs. After 60 days, these packages are
considered to have an RC bug in testing (for being too long out-of-sync).

We'd also like to limit the amount of llvm versions we have in testing.
Mostly at the time of release, but in preparation of that it's good to
ensure we at any time have only a limited set.

So, please share your plans with us.

Paul
Note: If you don't intent newer versions of llvm-toolchain to migrate to testing for a while, I suggest you upload to experimental, to avoid
raising expectations for other Debian Developers.

[1]
paul@mulciber ~ $ rmadison llvm-toolchain-9 llvm-toolchain-11
llvm-toolchain-12 llvm-toolchain-13 --suite=unstable
llvm-toolchain-11 | 1:11.1.0-4 | unstable | source
llvm-toolchain-12 | 1:12.0.1-8 | unstable | source
llvm-toolchain-12 | 1:12.0.1-9 | unstable | source
llvm-toolchain-12 | 1:12.0.1-10 | unstable | source
llvm-toolchain-13 | 1:13.0.0-5 | unstable | source
llvm-toolchain-9 | 1:9.0.1-20 | unstable | source

[2]
paul@mulciber ~ $ rmadison llvm-toolchain-9 llvm-toolchain-11
llvm-toolchain-12 llvm-toolchain-13 --suite=testing
llvm-toolchain-11 | 1:11.1.0-4 | testing | source
llvm-toolchain-9 | 1:9.0.1-20 | testing | source

[3] https://release.debian.org/transitions/html/llvm-9-rm.html




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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Hello,

First, thanks for asking and I apologize for not communicating more on this.


Le 18/10/2021 à 20:40, Paul Gevers a écrit :

Dear LLVM maintainers,

As a Release Team member I'm wondering what your plan is with the
different version of llvm-toolchain-* we have in unstable and testing. Currently 4 versions in unstable [1], of which 2 are in testing (9 and
11) [2]. We have a transition bug open to track the removal of 9 [3]. I notice that packages start to (build) depend on one of the two newer
version in unstable and fail to migrate as the two latest llvm versions
are not migrating due to RC bugs. After 60 days, these packages are considered to have an RC bug in testing (for being too long out-of-sync).

We'd also like to limit the amount of llvm versions we have in testing. Mostly at the time of release, but in preparation of that it's good to
ensure we at any time have only a limited set.

So, please share your plans with us.

My target is to have 2 versions for the next release. Realistically,
because of all the use
cases (ex: ghc), it is hard to have all packages focusing only one
version of llvm.

Currently, I am clearly failing at this. ;)
LLVM upstream is going through some significant changes in term of build systems. I have been focusing
on bringing 12 & 13 at this level (they both have failures currently).

Once they are green, I will work on the transition to 12 or (probably?)
13 and the removal of the older.

Hope this is clear,
Cheers

Sylvestre

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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To: llvm-toolchain-13@packages.debian.org
To: locutusofborg@debian.org (Gianfranco Costamagna)
Copy: debian-release@lists.debian.org (debian-release)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Le 25/03/2022 à 22:00, Paul Gevers a écrit :

Hi Sylvestre,

On 18-10-2021 22:42, Sylvestre Ledru wrote:

So, please share your plans with us.

My target is to have 2 versions for the next release. Realistically,
because of all the use
cases (ex: ghc), it is hard to have all packages focusing only one
version of llvm.

You recently added llvm-14, we already (still) have three versions in testing. We're going in the wrong direction.

I think you under estimate the complexity of the problem.

I am not adding more packages because it is fun but because it is
required to keep adequate quality.

Currently, I am clearly failing at this. ;)
LLVM upstream is going through some significant changes in term of build
systems. I have been focusing
on bringing 12 & 13 at this level (they both have failures currently).

Once they are green, I will work on the transition to 12 or (probably?)
13 and the removal of the older.

I have a proposal, let's try to control this a bit better. We have
multiple other "systems" in Debian where we handle multiple versions
(like Python, Ruby, ...), but I hear your "hard to have ..." problem.
I propose:
0) We plan to have at most two versions of llvm in the release. Can
you make a proposal for bookworm, which versions do you plan we will
ship?

Sebastinas asked me the same question a few days ago.

llvm defaults is probably going to be 14 for bookworm.

We will probably have 13, 14 and 15. I hope that packages like ghc will
be able to use one of this version (this is usually the blocker).

1) At all times, no more than three versions of llvm in unstable and
testing. You can upload and prepare in experimental, but uploads to
unstable tend to raise expectations of people that they can use it.
2) Which means, that before a new version can be introduced, we have
to get rid of one of old ones. If we're better at communicating the
plan, we can be more aggressive in removing packages that don't
migrate to one of the supported versions.

I wish it was that easy. It isn't about llvm itself but the packages
using it (or clang & co).

Cheers,
Sylvesre

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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To: locutusofborg@debian.org (Gianfranco Costamagna)
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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)