Hi!
I made a minor — but important — change to the debian/fontconfig-config.templates file in the fontconfig source package:
https://salsa.debian.org/freedesktop-team/fontconfig/-/commit/45d8eda0
That created fuzzy items in the PO files. I saw the reference to this list
in the file, so this is a heads-up. Not sure how a change like this is expected to be further processed.
Gunnar Hjalmarsson wrote:
I made a minor — but important — change to the
debian/fontconfig-config.templates file in the fontconfig source
package:
https://salsa.debian.org/freedesktop-team/fontconfig/-/commit/45d8eda0
That created fuzzy items in the PO files. I saw the reference to
this list in the file, so this is a heads-up. Not sure how a
change like this is expected to be further processed.
debian-l10n-english is the one part of the debian-i18n hierarchy
where there's no work to be done; it's all the other languages that
still have the bit in parentheses.
Maybe this is a case where you can safely pick out and delete those
bits and declare it unfuzzied, without needing to be fluent in Urdu
and so on?
I'm Ccing d-i18n for any input.
Mind you, if fontconf-confontconfig-config now has a different
default font, why do the package dependencies still have dejavu as
first preference?
If you aren't running plasma or cinnamon, almost nothing seems to
pull in fonts-noto - not even fonts-recommended.
How is a normal user doing an install expected to know what font
they are going to be using, anyway? Previously they could say "well,
I don't know enough about all this to want to customise anything, so apparently I'll need Native hinting, whatever that is"; now they
need to *guess* that the default is some TrueType font they've never
heard of.
(When it talks about Microsoft fonts, does that mean the ones from
the non-free msttcorefonts package that disappeared in Lenny?)
On 2023-09-04 08:19, Justin B Rye wrote:
Gunnar Hjalmarsson wrote:
I made a minor — but important — change to the
debian/fontconfig-config.templates file in the fontconfig source
package:
https://salsa.debian.org/freedesktop-team/fontconfig/-/commit/45d8eda0
That created fuzzy items in the PO files. I saw the reference to
this list in the file, so this is a heads-up. Not sure how a
change like this is expected to be further processed.
debian-l10n-english is the one part of the debian-i18n hierarchy
where there's no work to be done; it's all the other languages that
still have the bit in parentheses.
Right. Probably the comment at the top of the file, where
debian-l10n-english is mentioned, should be altered or dropped.
Maybe this is a case where you can safely pick out and delete those
bits and declare it unfuzzied, without needing to be fluent in Urdu
and so on?
Unless somebody objects, I may do that.
I'm Ccing d-i18n for any input.
Thanks for broadening the audience.
Mind you, if fontconf-confontconfig-config now has a different
default font, why do the package dependencies still have dejavu as
first preference?
That's true in Debian 12, but not in testing:
https://salsa.debian.org/freedesktop-team/fontconfig/-/commit/5aa10dde
If you aren't running plasma or cinnamon, almost nothing seems to
pull in fonts-noto - not even fonts-recommended.
Well, fonts-noto-core is recommended by the libreoffice binary, which means that Noto is effectively default in Debian 12 also with the GNOME desktop.
How is a normal user doing an install expected to know what font
they are going to be using, anyway? Previously they could say "well,
I don't know enough about all this to want to customise anything, so
apparently I'll need Native hinting, whatever that is"; now they
need to *guess* that the default is some TrueType font they've never
heard of.
(When it talks about Microsoft fonts, does that mean the ones from
the non-free msttcorefonts package that disappeared in Lenny?)
Those are good questions/thoughts.
The DejaVu -> Noto change in the font configuration was made upstream, and hit Debian with fontconfig 2.14. There were reactions:
https://bugs.debian.org/1028643
https://bugs.debian.org/1029390
https://bugs.debian.org/1029237
But nobody addressed those directly, and Debian 12 was released with some ambiguity. Debian was caught off guard.
I attended to the fontconfig package only recently, and have taken a couple of steps to handle the situation. One thing is that the default monospace font was changed back to DejaVu recently, so now we have:
sans-serif Noto Sans
serif Noto Serif
monospace DejaVu Sans Mono
It is apparently likely that debian/fontconfig-config.templates will undergo further changes soon, so possibly I should wait a bit with dealing with
those PO files.
But I think we would need a 'font expert' to help get it right.
Gunnar Hjalmarsson wrote:
On 2023-09-04 08:19, Justin B Rye wrote:
debian-l10n-english is the one part of the debian-i18n hierarchy
where there's no work to be done; it's all the other languages
that still have the bit in parentheses.
Right. Probably the comment at the top of the file, where
debian-l10n-english is mentioned, should be altered or dropped.
Well, *most* changes to template text need to go through d-l-e on
their way to translators, this is just one where we get to take a
shortcut.
Well, fonts-noto-core is recommended by the libreoffice binary,
which means that Noto is effectively default in Debian 12 also with
the GNOME desktop.
It's a surprisingly tenuous dependency chain for something we might
want to rely on; I didn't have fonts-noto-core installed anywhere,
probably because I had noticed how many things libreoffice pulled in
and was sceptical about any functionality I was ever going to use
requiring *both* -dejavu *and* -noto.
Wait a minute... gnome-desktop depends on libreoffice-calc, -gnome,
and -impress, but not libreoffice itself, so the Recommends: on fonts-noto-core is bypassed. If I ask aptitude to get ready to
install task-gnome-desktop on my testing machine (complete with
Recommends), that pulls in a vast horde of packages (it would almost
double the number of installed packages on that machine), but not one
of the extra package names begins with "fon"! Presumably that's
another instance of upgrades keeping what's already there.
But I think we would need a 'font expert' to help get it right.
I'm not one of those. When people say "look at these screenshots of
how much worse it is!" I can rarely even tell which way round
"before" and "after" are meant to be...
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