• Future of "his" packages in Debian

    From Marco Valli@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 20 19:20:01 2022
    by Norbert Preining · 2022/01/14

    After having been (again) demoted (blah)
    based on flimsy arguments, I have been forced to rethink the level
    of contribution I want to do for Debian. Blah blah blah blah
    After about 20 years in Debian, blah blah blah
    blah
    KDE/Plasma, frameworks, Gears, and related packages:
    blah
    All these packages are group maintained, so there is not much to
    worry about.
    Furthermore, a few new faces have joined the team and
    are actively working on the packages, although mostly on Qt6. I guess
    that with me not taking action, frameworks, gears, and plasma
    will fall back over time

    Admittedly, this guy doesn't have much faith in the the Debian/Kde team. 😆 Regards

    --
    Marco Valli

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  • From piorunz@21:1/5 to Marco Valli on Thu Jan 20 23:10:01 2022
    On 20/01/2022 18:17, Marco Valli wrote:
    by Norbert Preining · 2022/01/14

    After having been (again) demoted (blah)
    based on flimsy arguments, I have been forced to rethink the level
    of contribution I want to do for Debian. Blah blah blah blah
    After about 20 years in Debian, blah blah blah
    blah
    KDE/Plasma, frameworks, Gears, and related packages:
    blah
    All these packages are group maintained, so there is not much to
    worry about.
    Furthermore, a few new faces have joined the team and
    are actively working on the packages, although mostly on Qt6. I guess
    that with me not taking action, frameworks, gears, and plasma
    will fall back over time

    Admittedly, this guy doesn't have much faith in the the Debian/Kde team. 😆 Regards

    Who is this clown again? 😂

    --
    With kindest regards, Piotr.

    ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
    ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
    ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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  • From Martin Steigerwald@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 21 00:20:02 2022
    Hi.

    piorunz - 20.01.22, 23:09:30 CET:
    On 20/01/2022 18:17, Marco Valli wrote:
    by Norbert Preining · 2022/01/14

    After having been (again) demoted (blah)
    based on flimsy arguments, I have been forced to rethink the level
    of contribution I want to do for Debian. Blah blah blah blah
    After about 20 years in Debian, blah blah blah
    blah
    KDE/Plasma, frameworks, Gears, and related packages:
    blah
    All these packages are group maintained, so there is not much to
    worry about.
    Furthermore, a few new faces have joined the team and
    are actively working on the packages, although mostly on Qt6. I
    guess
    that with me not taking action, frameworks, gears, and plasma
    will fall back over time

    Admittedly, this guy doesn't have much faith in the the Debian/Kde
    team. 😆 Regards

    Who is this clown again? 😂

    I respect Norbert for the work he did on Plasma/KF/Application packages.

    I do not think it is fair to speak of him (or anyone else) as clown.

    From what I have perceived he contributed a lot to make timely releases
    of packages happen.

    I don't know what is going on here… what this demotion thing about, so I
    do not comment directly on it.

    I never had any issues with Norbert.

    Generally speaking more and more I have the impression that in Debian political arguments became more important than actually getting work
    done in the recent years. I bet that is part of the reason why I
    switched to Devuan for all my private systems.

    Ciao,
    --
    Martin

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  • From Johannes Zarl-Zierl@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 21 01:40:02 2022
    Hi,

    Who is this clown again? 😂

    I respect Norbert for the work he did on Plasma/KF/Application packages.

    I do not think it is fair to speak of him (or anyone else) as clown.

    From what I have perceived he contributed a lot to make timely releases
    of packages happen.

    I don't know what is going on here… what this demotion thing about, so I
    do not comment directly on it.

    I never had any issues with Norbert.

    Full ACK.

    Let's always keep discussions civil and in good faith...

    Gentle regards,
    Johannes

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  • From Luc Castermans@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 21 08:00:01 2022
    I fully agree, Johannes and Martin



    Op vr 21 jan. 2022 01:36 schreef Johannes Zarl-Zierl <johannes@zarl-zierl.at
    :

    Hi,

    Who is this clown again? 😂

    I respect Norbert for the work he did on Plasma/KF/Application packages.

    I do not think it is fair to speak of him (or anyone else) as clown.

    From what I have perceived he contributed a lot to make timely releases
    of packages happen.

    I don't know what is going on here… what this demotion thing about, so I do not comment directly on it.

    I never had any issues with Norbert.

    Full ACK.

    Let's always keep discussions civil and in good faith...

    Gentle regards,
    Johannes








    <div dir="auto">I fully agree, Johannes and Martin<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Op vr 21 jan. 2022 01:36 schreef Johannes Zarl-Zierl &lt;<a href="mailto:johannes@
    zarl-zierl.at">johannes@zarl-zierl.at</a>&gt;:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>

    &gt; &gt; Who is this clown again? 😂<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; I respect Norbert for the work he did on Plasma/KF/Application packages.<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; I do not think it is fair to speak of him (or anyone else) as clown.<br> &gt; <br>
    &gt; From what I have perceived he contributed a lot to make timely releases<br>
    &gt; of packages happen.<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; I don&#39;t know what is going on here… what this demotion thing about, so I<br>
    &gt; do not comment directly on it.<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; I never had any issues with Norbert.<br>

    Full ACK.<br>

    Let&#39;s always keep discussions civil and in good faith...<br>

    Gentle regards,<br>
      Johannes<br>






    </blockquote></div>

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  • From =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Aur=E9lien_COUDERC?=@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 21 08:20:01 2022
    Le 20 janvier 2022 23:09:30 GMT+01:00, piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> a écrit : >On 20/01/2022 18:17, Marco Valli wrote:
    by Norbert Preining · 2022/01/14

    Admittedly, this guy doesn't have much faith in the the Debian/Kde team. 😆
    Regards

    Who is this clown again? 😂

    The Debian KDE team is a (small) handful of people maintaining both the Qt stack and the ~500 frameworks/plasma/apps packages on their free time.

    Lately Norbert was doing most of the later.

    More contributors are really welcome ! If you've always wanted to become a Debian contributor and are interested in the KDE stack, now is a perfect time.

    Join us on IRC, the handful is a friendly bunch of people.


    Best,
    --
    Aurélien

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  • From Dietz Proepper@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 22 09:36:37 2022
    Am Donnerstag, 20. Januar 2022, 19:17:23 CET schrieb Marco Valli:
    by Norbert Preining · 2022/01/14

    After having been (again) demoted (blah)
    based on flimsy arguments, I have been forced to rethink the level
    of contribution I want to do for Debian. Blah blah blah blah
    After about 20 years in Debian, blah blah blah
    blah
    KDE/Plasma, frameworks, Gears, and related packages:

    Admittedly, this guy doesn't have much faith in the the Debian/Kde team. 😆 Regards

    The way you are citing Norbert's blog post[1] ('"his" packages', "blah blah",
    references to the source) sounds a little funny. And I'd expect such more from a 10 year old that from an adult person.

    Even more, given the fact that Norbert was the guy who seemingly was the main driving force for converting debian-kde from an unstable, outdated mess to something which is a pleasure to use around two years ago, I am even more surprised.

    My impression is, that some people with very, very tiny and limited minds drive off those who do not lament on every bullshit and just get stuff done. This is a rather sad developement for Debian.

    I have been using Debian since 1998, but start wondering whether it really makes sense to support a band of politicans much further.

    Kindest regards,
    Dietz

    [1] https://www.preining.info/blog/2022/01/future-of-my-packages-in-debian/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

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  • From Brad Rogers@21:1/5 to Dietz Proepper on Sat Jan 22 10:40:01 2022
    On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 09:36:37 +0100
    Dietz Proepper <dietz@scanthis.de> wrote:

    Hello Dietz,

    I have been using Debian since 1998, but start wondering whether it
    really makes sense to support a band of politicans much further.

    All distros have their politics. What matters is whether you can agree
    with, or at the very least, not be massively hacked off by them.

    --
    Regards _
    / ) "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
    / _)rad "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
    What will you do when the gas taps turn?
    The Gasman Cometh - Crass

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  • From piorunz@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 22 14:00:02 2022
    On 21/01/2022 06:47, Aurélien COUDERC wrote:


    Le 20 janvier 2022 23:09:30 GMT+01:00, piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> a écrit :
    On 20/01/2022 18:17, Marco Valli wrote:
    by Norbert Preining · 2022/01/14

    Admittedly, this guy doesn't have much faith in the the Debian/Kde team. 😆
    Regards

    Who is this clown again? 😂

    The Debian KDE team is a (small) handful of people maintaining both the Qt stack and the ~500 frameworks/plasma/apps packages on their free time.

    Lately Norbert was doing most of the later.

    More contributors are really welcome ! If you've always wanted to become a Debian contributor and are interested in the KDE stack, now is a perfect time.

    Join us on IRC, the handful is a friendly bunch of people.


    Best,
    --
    Aurélien


    I didn't wanted to angry anyone. Apologies. But he kinda asked for it:

    "I guess that with me not taking action, frameworks, gears, and plasma
    will fall back over time "

    Really?

    --
    With kindest regards, Piotr.

    ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
    ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
    ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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  • From Luc Castermans@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 22 14:40:01 2022
    fallback Yes/No? Future will tell. If KDE team could use OBS infrastructure which Norbert build would that help the KDE team?

    Op za 22 jan. 2022 13:53 schreef piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com>:

    On 21/01/2022 06:47, Aurélien COUDERC wrote:


    Le 20 janvier 2022 23:09:30 GMT+01:00, piorunz <piorunz@gmx.com> a
    écrit :
    On 20/01/2022 18:17, Marco Valli wrote:
    by Norbert Preining · 2022/01/14

    Admittedly, this guy doesn't have much faith in the the Debian/Kde
    team. 😆
    Regards

    Who is this clown again? 😂

    The Debian KDE team is a (small) handful of people maintaining both the
    Qt stack and the ~500 frameworks/plasma/apps packages on their free time.

    Lately Norbert was doing most of the later.

    More contributors are really welcome ! If you've always wanted to become
    a Debian contributor and are interested in the KDE stack, now is a perfect time.

    Join us on IRC, the handful is a friendly bunch of people.


    Best,
    --
    Aurélien


    I didn't wanted to angry anyone. Apologies. But he kinda asked for it:

    "I guess that with me not taking action, frameworks, gears, and plasma
    will fall back over time "

    Really?

    --
    With kindest regards, Piotr.

    ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
    ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
    ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀



    <div dir="auto">fallback Yes/No? Future will tell. If KDE team could use OBS infrastructure which Norbert build would that help the KDE team?</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Op za 22 jan. 2022 13:53 schreef piorunz &lt;
    <a href="mailto:piorunz@gmx.com">piorunz@gmx.com</a>&gt;:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On 21/01/2022 06:47, Aurélien COUDERC wrote:<br>
    &gt;<br>
    &gt;<br>
    &gt; Le 20 janvier 2022 23:09:30 GMT+01:00, piorunz &lt;<a href="mailto:piorunz@gmx.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">piorunz@gmx.com</a>&gt; a écrit :<br>
    &gt;&gt; On 20/01/2022 18:17, Marco Valli wrote:<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; by Norbert Preining · 2022/01/14<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt; Admittedly, this guy doesn&#39;t have much faith in the the Debian/Kde team. 😆<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt; Regards<br>
    &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
    &gt;&gt; Who is this clown again? 😂<br>
    &gt;<br>
    &gt; The Debian KDE team is a (small) handful of people maintaining both the Qt stack and the ~500 frameworks/plasma/apps packages on their free time.<br>
    &gt;<br>
    &gt; Lately Norbert was doing most of the later.<br>
    &gt;<br>
    &gt; More contributors are really welcome ! If you&#39;ve always wanted to become a Debian contributor and are interested in the KDE stack, now is a perfect time.<br>
    &gt;<br>
    &gt; Join us on IRC, the handful is a friendly bunch of people.<br>
    &gt;<br>
    &gt;<br>
    &gt; Best,<br>
    &gt; --<br>
    &gt; Aurélien<br>
    &gt;<br>

    I didn&#39;t wanted to angry anyone. Apologies. But he kinda asked for it:<br>

    &quot;I guess that  with me not taking action, frameworks, gears, and plasma<br>
    will fall back over time &quot;<br>

    Really?<br>

    --<br>
    With kindest regards, Piotr.<br>

    ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀<br>
    ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system<br> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ <a href="https://www.debian.org/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.debian.org/</a><br>
    ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀<br>

    </blockquote></div>

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  • From Dietz Proepper@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 23 13:58:48 2022
    Am Freitag, 21. Januar 2022, 01:11:44 CET schrieb Johannes Zarl-Zierl:
    I never had any issues with Norbert.

    Full ACK.

    +1. And also not with Marco, as far as I remember. Which comes with little relevance, as we did not have much contact before.

    Let's always keep discussions civil and in good faith...

    Well, but jftr, let's not forget who started this thread and in which way. At the very least, citing the source of ones comments is quite basic IMNSHO.

    Kindest regards,
    Dietz
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  • From Luc Castermans@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 23 19:00:01 2022
    yep.

    For me key is that we loose a very valuable contributor and great
    contribution! Reasons for this are unclear to me. Why this demotion, are those who decide on this stating and communicating their reasons, better is this a group decision?

    Luc

    Op zo 23 jan. 2022 13:59 schreef Dietz Proepper <dietz@scanthis.de>:

    Am Freitag, 21. Januar 2022, 01:11:44 CET schrieb Johannes Zarl-Zierl:
    I never had any issues with Norbert.

    Full ACK.

    +1. And also not with Marco, as far as I remember. Which comes with little relevance, as we did not have much contact before.

    Let's always keep discussions civil and in good faith...

    Well, but jftr, let's not forget who started this thread and in which way.
    At
    the very least, citing the source of ones comments is quite basic IMNSHO.

    Kindest regards,
    Dietz

    <div dir="auto">yep. <div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">For me key is that we loose a very valuable contributor and great contribution!    Reasons for this are unclear to me. Why this demotion, are those who decide on this stating and
    communicating their reasons, better is this a group decision?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Luc</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Op zo 23 jan. 2022 13:59 schreef Dietz Proepper &lt;<a href="mailto:
    dietz@scanthis.de">dietz@scanthis.de</a>&gt;:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Am Freitag, 21. Januar 2022, 01:11:44 CET schrieb Johannes Zarl-Zierl:<br>
    &gt; &gt; I never had any issues with Norbert.<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; Full ACK.<br>

    +1. And also not with Marco, as far as I remember. Which comes with little <br> relevance, as we did not have much contact before.<br>

    &gt; Let&#39;s always keep discussions civil and in good faith...<br>

    Well, but jftr, let&#39;s not forget who started this thread and in which way. At <br>
    the very least, citing the source of ones comments is quite basic IMNSHO.<br>

    Kindest regards,<br>
            Dietz</blockquote></div>

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  • From Rainer Dorsch@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 23 21:43:31 2022
    Hi Luc,

    the DAMs decision is extremly frustrating for Debian KDE users and given the short statement on debian-user

    https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/01/msg00807.html

    it is at least not clear to me if they seriously searched for a solution which would have served better all involved parties and the Debian (KDE) users. This message even increases the doubt, that searching for such a solution was a priority for them

    https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2019/01/msg00186.html

    I used the ... which the DAMs created in Debian KDE as opportunity and installed on a new desktop Manjaro stable instead of Debian to experiment with it (I still have Debian bullseye desktops in use). As a Debian stable user I considered manjaro more appropriate than Arch.

    Kmail 5.19.0/21.12.0 in manjaro stable was a pleasant surprise. Even though it is newer than Kmail in Debian unstable, the manjaro stable upgrade to 21.12.1 is downloaded while I am writting. I am curious to see how this experiment
    goes in the next months in particular the updates. The good thing for Open Source users is that we have choice if things go into the wrong direction somewhere :-)

    Rainer

    On Sonntag, 23. Januar 2022 18:56:09 CET Luc Castermans wrote:
    yep.

    For me key is that we loose a very valuable contributor and great contribution! Reasons for this are unclear to me. Why this demotion, are those who decide on this stating and communicating their reasons, better is this a group decision?

    Luc

    Op zo 23 jan. 2022 13:59 schreef Dietz Proepper <dietz@scanthis.de>:
    Am Freitag, 21. Januar 2022, 01:11:44 CET schrieb Johannes Zarl-Zierl:
    I never had any issues with Norbert.

    Full ACK.

    +1. And also not with Marco, as far as I remember. Which comes with little relevance, as we did not have much contact before.

    Let's always keep discussions civil and in good faith...

    Well, but jftr, let's not forget who started this thread and in which way. At
    the very least, citing the source of ones comments is quite basic IMNSHO.

    Kindest regards,

    Dietz


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