Thoughts?
Thoughts?
why don't you just add yourself and Dimitri to Uploaders: and be
done? :)
Because the intention is not to claim the package for myself (far from
it! I already maintain too many...), but to open it up for uploads to
anybody who is part of the Salsa team (or wants to join it), removing
any barriers.
Le Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 12:00:20AM +0100, Luca Boccassi a écrit :
Because the intention is not to claim the package for myself (far from
it! I already maintain too many...), but to open it up for uploads to anybody who is part of the Salsa team (or wants to join it), removing
any barriers.
Hi Luca,
`dch --team` is your friend :) https://wiki.debian.org/TeamUpload
There must be at least one personal email address in either Maintainer
or Uploader (https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-binary.html#s-maintainer),
so if the current Uploaders agree, replacing them would be a service to
the team, not a claim of ownership!
I am aware of that, that's not the point I'm trying to make. The point
is that having anyone explicitly named assigns ownership and is a
barrier for others to contribute.
debootstrap's d/control lists the Maintainer as the "Debian Install
System Team" - that is great. There are also 3 Uploaders listed: Colin Watson, Steve McIntyre and Hideki Yamane.
The last contribution and upload by Colin were in 2021 and 2015, respectively, by Steve was it was 2016 and 2017, and Hideki and 2021
and 2020. Again, not a critique, just data!
So, I want to propose to move the package to exclusively team
maintained, drop the Uploaders field, leave only the Maintainer field
with the current team as-is, and ask anybody who wants to help maintain
it to join the installer-team on Salsa and just send changes as MRs,
help review/merge them, and do normal uploads, without marking them as
NMU nor feeling the need to treat them as NMUs - no need to contact
uploaders to ask permissions, delayed uploads, or anything like that.
Again, I really can't stress this enough - dropping the Uploaders is
not because I think the uploaders have done anything wrong, or as
punishment, or anything else, but simply and solely to remove all
barriers stopping or hindering anybody else from doing team
maintenance.
I am aware of that, that's not the point I'm trying to make. Thepoint
is that having anyone explicitly named assigns ownership and is a
barrier for others to contribute.
FWIW, I never understood it that way, at all.
In the context of a team, "Uploaders" just lets me know about people
who
consider themselves to be among the people regularly working on this
package, so a good contact point.
But if Maintainers is a team, and I'm in that team, I'm free to
upload,
whether in Uploaders or not.
And if I'm a frequent uploader, I add myself to Uploaders.
A good example is the Debian Python Team, where the policy [1]
explicitly states that "[anyone in the Team] can commit to the Git
repository and upload as needed".
It's great that it works for you and for some teams, but it doesn't
work for me and for others. For me, if someone else is listed in
Uploaders, then it's their property and I'm not touching it unless
absolutely necessary.
It's great that it works for you and for some teams, but it doesn't
work for me and for others. For me, if someone else is listed in
Uploaders, then it's their property and I'm not touching it unless absolutely necessary.
Look, you have an interpretation of Uploaders that is wildly
different
from how others in the Project perceive it, and IMO in outright
conflict
with the Policy. That is not a sound basis for the change you
propose.
Regardless, why not solve the problem by simply by adding yourself to Uploaders, as others have suggested? Or ask one of the current
Uploaders
to do it, if that is more agreeable to you?
That doesn't solve the problem, given I explicitly do _not_ want to
claim ownership of the package for myself. Just provide occasional contributions given it's under-mantained at the moment.
Sometimes you are fixing and/or updating a package because you are member of a packaging team (which uses a mailing list as Maintainer or Uploader; see Collaborative maintenance) but you don't want to add yourself to Uploaders because you do not planto contribute regularly to this specific package. If it conforms with your team's policy, you can perform a normal upload without being listed directly as Maintainer or Uploader. In that case, you should start your changelog entry with the following line:
* Team upload
So, I want to propose to move the package to exclusively team
maintained, drop the Uploaders field, leave only the Maintainer field
with the current team as-is, and ask anybody who wants to help maintain
it to join the installer-team on Salsa and just send changes as MRs,
help review/merge them, and do normal uploads, without marking them as
NMU nor feeling the need to treat them as NMUs - no need to contact
uploaders to ask permissions, delayed uploads, or anything like that.
Hi Luca,
(1-month lag explained by heavy post-release burnout, which I'm fighting hard(er) today to make sure Helmut can make progress.)
Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> (2023-07-18):
So, I want to propose to move the package to exclusively team
maintained, drop the Uploaders field, leave only the Maintainer field
with the current team as-is, and ask anybody who wants to help maintain
it to join the installer-team on Salsa and just send changes as MRs,
help review/merge them, and do normal uploads, without marking them as
NMU nor feeling the need to treat them as NMUs - no need to contact uploaders to ask permissions, delayed uploads, or anything like that.
As others have already pointed out: team uploads are just fine, anyone (listed or not in Uploaders) can upload, and we're happy to add people
to the team on Salsa.
I suspect some people in Debian still expect to retain full “ownership” on “their” packages, but it really looks to me the project in general moved to a less territorial approach a number of years ago.
As for d-i packages and debootstrap in particular, see my digression
in #1049898 (https://bugs.debian.org/1049898#15).
Also and again: thanks for your work on debootstrap since last year.
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