• Wiki: Setup the environment, e.g. "salsa" script / Request to review mo

    From c.buhtz@posteo.jp@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 19 11:50:02 2024
    Hello together,

    I still struggle with the docs but also improving them.

    First of all please review my modifications to make sure there are no misleading errors in the content. I restructured the "Policy" section
    [1]. I shortened and rephrased the text. I also added a sub section
    "Setup and configure the system" with missing details.

    I think in the long run I will add setup information to https://wiki.debian.org/Salsa and link to it from Python/GitPackaging
    wiki page.
    Please see my Salsa related questions in the other thread.

    As a side note: There is an open discussion at MoinWiki to improve the
    handling of headings and page titles [2]. The later should not be part
    of the TOC.

    Best Regards,
    Christian Buhtz

    [1] -- <https://wiki.debian.org/Python/GitPackaging#Policies>
    [2] -- <https://github.com/moinwiki/moin/issues/1648>

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  • From weepingclown@21:1/5 to c.buhtz@posteo.jp on Tue Mar 19 12:50:01 2024
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    Hi Christian,

    Improving docs is a very important thing, I appreciate your effort.

    I quickly went through thr diff off your changes and it seems that you've changed the wiki to mention that using quilt is not recommended. While gbp pq is what the python team prefers indeed, the python team policy does not prevent quilt usage and
    instead mentions explicitly that optionally quilt can be used. As such, I do not find mentioning "using quilt is not recommended" appropriate as it has the connotation "you should not use quilt". As someone who takes advantage of the policy leniency and
    find quilt easier than gbp pq, I thought this has to be mentioned.

    Once again, improving the wiki is a great thing to do. Please keep up the good work :)

    Best,
    Ananthu

    On 19 March 2024 10:47:07 am UTC, c.buhtz@posteo.jp wrote:
    Hello together,

    I still struggle with the docs but also improving them.

    First of all please review my modifications to make sure there are no misleading errors in the content. I restructured the "Policy" section [1]. I shortened and rephrased the text. I also added a sub section "Setup and configure the system" with missing
    details.

    I think in the long run I will add setup information to https://wiki.debian.org/Salsa and link to it from Python/GitPackaging wiki page.
    Please see my Salsa related questions in the other thread.

    As a side note: There is an open discussion at MoinWiki to improve the handling of headings and page titles [2]. The later should not be part of the TOC.

    Best Regards,
    Christian Buhtz

    [1] -- <https://wiki.debian.org/Python/GitPackaging#Policies>
    [2] -- <https://github.com/moinwiki/moin/issues/1648>


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    <html><head></head><body><div dir="auto">Hi Christian,<br><br>Improving docs is a very important thing, I appreciate your effort.<br><br>I quickly went through thr diff off your changes and it seems that you've changed the wiki to mention that using
    quilt is not recommended. While gbp pq is what the python team prefers indeed, the python team policy does not prevent quilt usage and instead mentions explicitly that optionally quilt can be used. As such, I do not find mentioning "using quilt is not
    recommended" appropriate as it has the connotation "you should not use quilt". As someone who takes advantage of the policy leniency and find quilt easier than gbp pq, I thought this has to be mentioned.<br><br>Once again, improving the wiki is a great
    thing to do. Please keep up the good work :)<br><br>Best,<br>Ananthu</div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="auto">On 19 March 2024 10:47:07 am UTC, c.buhtz@posteo.jp wrote:</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;
    border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
    <pre class="k9mail"><div dir="auto">Hello together,<br><br>I still struggle with the docs but also improving them.<br><br>First of all please review my modifications to make sure there are no misleading errors in the content. I restructured the "Policy"
    section [1]. I shortened and rephrased the text. I also added a sub section "Setup and configure the system" with missing details.<br><br>I think in the long run I will add setup information to <a href="https://wiki.debian.org/Salsa">https://wiki.debian.
    org/Salsa</a> and link to it from Python/GitPackaging wiki page.<br>Please see my Salsa related questions in the other thread.<br><br>As a side note: There is an open discussion at MoinWiki to improve the handling of headings and page titles [2]. The
    later should not be part of the TOC.<br><br>Best Regards,<br>Christian Buhtz<br><br>[1] -- &lt;<a href="https://wiki.debian.org/Python/GitPackaging#Policies">https://wiki.debian.org/Python/GitPackaging#Policies</a>&gt;<br>[2] -- &lt;<a href="https://
    github.com/moinwiki/moin/issues/1648">https://github.com/moinwiki/moin/issues/1648</a>&gt;<br><br></div></pre></blockquote></div></body></html>
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  • From Andreas Tille@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 19 17:20:01 2024
    Hi,

    Am Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 11:48:47AM +0000 schrieb weepingclown:
    Improving docs is a very important thing, I appreciate your effort.

    +1

    I quickly went through thr diff off your changes and it seems that you've changed the wiki to mention that using quilt is not recommended. While gbp pq is what the python team prefers indeed, the python team policy does not prevent quilt usage and
    instead mentions explicitly that optionally quilt can be used. As such, I do not find mentioning "using quilt is not recommended" appropriate as it has the connotation "you should not use quilt". As someone who takes advantage of the policy leniency and
    find quilt easier than gbp pq, I thought this has to be mentioned.

    As someone who touched a lot of packages (>2000) I've always used quilt successfully and have seen quilt patches used by the majority of all
    those packages. This is not only true for DPT than generally in Debian. Considering quilt as not recommended is definitely not matching the
    reality and should not be written in Wiki.

    Once again, improving the wiki is a great thing to do. Please keep up the good work :)

    +1

    Kind regards
    Andreas.

    Best,
    Ananthu

    On 19 March 2024 10:47:07 am UTC, c.buhtz@posteo.jp wrote:
    Hello together,

    I still struggle with the docs but also improving them.

    First of all please review my modifications to make sure there are no misleading errors in the content. I restructured the "Policy" section [1]. I shortened and rephrased the text. I also added a sub section "Setup and configure the system" with
    missing details.

    I think in the long run I will add setup information to https://wiki.debian.org/Salsa and link to it from Python/GitPackaging wiki page.
    Please see my Salsa related questions in the other thread.

    As a side note: There is an open discussion at MoinWiki to improve the handling of headings and page titles [2]. The later should not be part of the TOC.

    Best Regards,
    Christian Buhtz

    [1] -- <https://wiki.debian.org/Python/GitPackaging#Policies>
    [2] -- <https://github.com/moinwiki/moin/issues/1648>


    --
    http://fam-tille.de

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  • From Brian May@21:1/5 to Andreas Tille on Wed Mar 20 01:20:01 2024
    Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> writes:

    As someone who touched a lot of packages (>2000) I've always used quilt successfully and have seen quilt patches used by the majority of all
    those packages. This is not only true for DPT than generally in Debian. Considering quilt as not recommended is definitely not matching the
    reality and should not be written in Wiki.

    gbp pq is just another way of quilt patches. The debian/patches written
    by gbp pq are compatable with quilt. The patches written to by quilt can
    be read using gbp pq import.

    While gbp pq has a patch queue stored in git, you probably don't want to
    push this to a shared repo.

    But: If you create patches with quilt, and then import and export them
    using gbp pq you might find that gbp pq wants to make minor/trivial
    changes to the unchanged patch files. Which can be irritating when
    making security patches, etc. Maybe this is why the practise is not recommended?
    --
    Brian May @ Debian

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  • From c.buhtz@posteo.jp@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 20 12:10:01 2024
    Sorry, guys but I don't understand nearly nothing of what you explain
    here because I don't know the tool chain nor the process. But I hope you
    all do.

    I modified the section:
    https://wiki.debian.org/Python/GitPackaging#Policies

    Feel free to improve my modification.
    But please keep the target audience of this wiki page in mind. Keep it
    short and simple. Background infos and reationals should go into another document (e.g. a policy or DPT guide).

    Kind
    Christian Buhtz

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  • From Andreas Tille@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 20 12:00:01 2024
    Hi Brian,

    Am Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 10:59:34AM +1100 schrieb Brian May:
    Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> writes:

    As someone who touched a lot of packages (>2000) I've always used quilt successfully and have seen quilt patches used by the majority of all
    those packages. This is not only true for DPT than generally in Debian. Considering quilt as not recommended is definitely not matching the
    reality and should not be written in Wiki.

    gbp pq is just another way of quilt patches. The debian/patches written
    by gbp pq are compatable with quilt. The patches written to by quilt can
    be read using gbp pq import.

    While gbp pq has a patch queue stored in git, you probably don't want to
    push this to a shared repo.

    But: If you create patches with quilt, and then import and export them
    using gbp pq you might find that gbp pq wants to make minor/trivial
    changes to the unchanged patch files. Which can be irritating when
    making security patches, etc. Maybe this is why the practise is not recommended?

    Thanks a lot for the explanation. So the Wiki should be changed in this direction it should include this explanation. In any case creating the impression quilt should not be used does not reflect reality.

    Kind regards
    Andreas.

    --
    https://fam-tille.de

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  • From Andreas Tille@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 22 17:40:01 2024
    Am Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 11:04:41AM +0000 schrieb c.buhtz@posteo.jp:
    Sorry, guys but I don't understand nearly nothing of what you explain here because I don't know the tool chain nor the process. But I hope you all do.

    I modified the section:
    https://wiki.debian.org/Python/GitPackaging#Policies

    Feel free to improve my modification.

    IMHO the best fit is:

    - * '''Patch management regime''': The Debian Python team has chosen `gbp pq`. But it is also possible to use `quilt`.
    + * '''Patch management regime''': The Debian Python team recommends `gbp pq` as interface to `quilt` patches.

    Kind regards
    Andreas.

    --
    https://fam-tille.de

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