Hi debian-python (2023.11.25_16:23:46_+0000)

As part of preparing for Python 3.12 in Debian, I've uploaded cython 3
to experimental.

I did some test-building of reverse dependencies, and quite a lot of
them fail.

I should have said, all the build logs are here:

https://people.debian.org/~stefanor/cython3/cython-3.0.5/

Stefano Rivera <stefanor@debian.org>
pystemmer (U)

Fixed in 2.2.0.1-2

Stefano

--
Stefano Rivera
http://tumbleweed.org.za/
+1 415 683 3272

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Hi,

Le samedi 25 novembre 2023 à 16:23 +0000, Stefano Rivera a écrit :

Julien Puydt <jpuydt@debian.org>
   fpylll (U)
   pplpy (U)

I had a look.

For fpylll: it has a newer upstream which works with more recent cython versions, so I'm actually eager to see the move.

For pplpy, I'm a bit annoyed as I have no recollection of that
package... According to its homepage, the project has been archived, so
it's probably dead. But the sagemath package still depends on it (or at
least its d/control says it does) so we can't drop it yet.

Cheers,

JP

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Hi,

Le samedi 25 novembre 2023 à 16:23 +0000, Stefano Rivera a écrit :

Julien Puydt <jpuydt@debian.org>
   fpylll (U)
   pplpy (U)

For pplpy, I found the package was pointing to an archived repo, but
the author had a newer one with a version which is supposed to be okay
(to be confirmed).

For fpylll, there is a newer version compatible with recent cython but
not with our current one. I'm discussing with upstream on how to have a
version compatible with both, but of course if cython 3 gets updated
the issue becomes moot.

Cheers,

J.Puydt

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat, Nov 25, 2023 at 04:23:46PM +0000, Stefano Rivera wrote:

[...]
So, that's 71 regressions with cython3. dd-list below. Please help us
port to cython 3. If this isn't possible, Graham is preparing a
cython-legacy package, to help the stragglers. But we're expecting that
this won't have great Python 3.12 support... https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/cython-legacy_0.29.36-1~exp1.html

Indeed; there's already one Python 3.12 related bug in the legacy
version: it tries to import imp in pyximport.py.

Best wishes,

Julian

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, Dec 10, 2023 at 08:12:40PM +0000, Julian Gilbey wrote:

On Sat, Nov 25, 2023 at 04:23:46PM +0000, Stefano Rivera wrote:

As part of preparing for Python 3.12 in Debian, I've uploaded cython 3
to experimental.
[...]

So, that's 71 regressions with cython3. dd-list below. Please help us
port to cython 3. If this isn't possible, Graham is preparing a cython-legacy package, to help the stragglers. But we're expecting that this won't have great Python 3.12 support... https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/cython-legacy_0.29.36-1~exp1.html

I find that there's also a significant issue with relying on
cython3-legacy: it conflicts with cython3, meaning that it will be
impossible to simultaneously install packages depending on cython3 and cython3-legacy. Once cython 3.x moves from experimental to unstable
to testing and packages start depending on it, this will become a
significant issue. I assume that the aim will be for everything to be
ported to cython 3.x and for cython3-legacy to be dropped from testing
before the trixie freeze?

I wonder how many packages actually need a runtime dep on cython. I
quickly checked three packages from `reverse-depends cython3` and while python3-pysph probably uses cython to generate code at the run time (not
sure), python3-pyzoltan seems to only use it at the build time and python3-epimodels doesn't seem to use it at all.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat, Nov 25, 2023 at 04:23:46PM +0000, Stefano Rivera wrote:

As part of preparing for Python 3.12 in Debian, I've uploaded cython 3
to experimental.
[...]

So, that's 71 regressions with cython3. dd-list below. Please help us
port to cython 3. If this isn't possible, Graham is preparing a
cython-legacy package, to help the stragglers. But we're expecting that
this won't have great Python 3.12 support... https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/cython-legacy_0.29.36-1~exp1.html

I find that there's also a significant issue with relying on
cython3-legacy: it conflicts with cython3, meaning that it will be
impossible to simultaneously install packages depending on cython3 and cython3-legacy. Once cython 3.x moves from experimental to unstable
to testing and packages start depending on it, this will become a
significant issue. I assume that the aim will be for everything to be
ported to cython 3.x and for cython3-legacy to be dropped from testing
before the trixie freeze?

Best wishes,

Julian

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On Sun, Dec 10, 2023 at 09:30:03PM +0100, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote:

I find that there's also a significant issue with relying on cython3-legacy: it conflicts with cython3, meaning that it will be impossible to simultaneously install packages depending on cython3 and cython3-legacy. Once cython 3.x moves from experimental to unstable
to testing and packages start depending on it, this will become a significant issue. I assume that the aim will be for everything to be ported to cython 3.x and for cython3-legacy to be dropped from testing before the trixie freeze?

I wonder how many packages actually need a runtime dep on cython. I
quickly checked three packages from `reverse-depends cython3` and while python3-pysph probably uses cython to generate code at the run time (not sure), python3-pyzoltan seems to only use it at the build time and python3-epimodels doesn't seem to use it at all.

(I may be terribly wrong, I just thought cython is almost always a build
time only dep and there are around 30 packages depending on it which was surprising)

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On 10.12.23 21:32, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote:

On Sun, Dec 10, 2023 at 09:30:03PM +0100, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote:

I find that there's also a significant issue with relying on
cython3-legacy: it conflicts with cython3, meaning that it will be
impossible to simultaneously install packages depending on cython3 and
cython3-legacy. Once cython 3.x moves from experimental to unstable
to testing and packages start depending on it, this will become a
significant issue. I assume that the aim will be for everything to be
ported to cython 3.x and for cython3-legacy to be dropped from testing
before the trixie freeze?

I wonder how many packages actually need a runtime dep on cython. I
quickly checked three packages from `reverse-depends cython3` and while
python3-pysph probably uses cython to generate code at the run time (not
sure), python3-pyzoltan seems to only use it at the build time and
python3-epimodels doesn't seem to use it at all.

(I may be terribly wrong, I just thought cython is almost always a build
time only dep and there are around 30 packages depending on it which was surprising)

yes, many setup.py's list that under install_requires. I hope we now
identified most of them, and fixed these. At least we were now able to
do all the binNMUs.

You could package a non-conflicting cython-legacy, however that would
require more changes, also how to build it.

Matthias

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On 11.12.23 08:09, Matthias Klose wrote:

On 10.12.23 21:32, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote:

On Sun, Dec 10, 2023 at 09:30:03PM +0100, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote:

I find that there's also a significant issue with relying on
cython3-legacy: it conflicts with cython3, meaning that it will be
impossible to simultaneously install packages depending on cython3 and >>>> cython3-legacy.  Once cython 3.x moves from experimental to unstable
to testing and packages start depending on it, this will become a
significant issue.  I assume that the aim will be for everything to be >>>> ported to cython 3.x and for cython3-legacy to be dropped from testing >>>> before the trixie freeze?

I wonder how many packages actually need a runtime dep on cython. I
quickly checked three packages from `reverse-depends cython3` and while
python3-pysph probably uses cython to generate code at the run time (not >>> sure), python3-pyzoltan seems to only use it at the build time and
python3-epimodels doesn't seem to use it at all.

(I may be terribly wrong, I just thought cython is almost always a build
time only dep and there are around 30 packages depending on it which was
surprising)

yes, many setup.py's list that under install_requires. I hope we now identified most of them, and fixed these.  At least we were now able to
do all the binNMUs.

You could package a non-conflicting cython-legacy, however that would
require more changes, also how to build it.

Graham created a tracker for these, and I filed bug reports:

https://release.debian.org/transitions/html/cython-runtime.html https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?tag=cython-rt-dep&users=debian-python@lists.debian.org

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On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 08:09:31AM +0100, Matthias Klose wrote:

[...]

I find that there's also a significant issue with relying on cython3-legacy: it conflicts with cython3, meaning that it will be impossible to simultaneously install packages depending on cython3 and cython3-legacy. Once cython 3.x moves from experimental to unstable
to testing and packages start depending on it, this will become a significant issue. I assume that the aim will be for everything to be ported to cython 3.x and for cython3-legacy to be dropped from testing before the trixie freeze?

[...]
You could package a non-conflicting cython-legacy, however that would
require more changes, also how to build it.

I had a very quick look at the packaged cython3-legacy. One could
change the name of the module to Cython_legacy or probably better,
Cython0, and cython.py to cython0.py, pyximport to pyximport0. Just a
handful of changes would be needed, I'm guessing. Then it would be co-installable with Cython 3.x, and any packages that actually need cython3-legacy rather than Cython 3.x would have to be patched to call
the legacy version. It's probably easier to just patch them for
Cython 3.x ;-)

Best wishes,

Julian

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On Sat, Nov 25, 2023 at 04:23:46PM +0000, Stefano Rivera wrote:

As part of preparing for Python 3.12 in Debian, I've uploaded cython 3
to experimental.
[...]

So, that's 71 regressions with cython3. dd-list below. Please help us
port to cython 3. If this isn't possible, Graham is preparing a
cython-legacy package, to help the stragglers. But we're expecting that
this won't have great Python 3.12 support... https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/cython-legacy_0.29.36-1~exp1.html

Here's an update on cython-legacy. I just tried running autopkgtest
on cython-legacy with Python 3.12, and unfortunately it fails. I
can't quite work out how many tests fail (I don't understand the
format of the test output), but there are 25 lines containing the
string "FAIL" in the output of autopkgtest with the latest version of cython-legacy (0.29.36-2, uploaded today).

We could just skip these tests - some of them are probably harmless -
but they probably indicate incompatibilty (unsurprisingly) with Python
3.12, though some of these incompatibilties may be restricted to the
tests themselves rather than the underlying Cython 0.x code.

I'd be happy to try uploading a version with these tests skipped - I
just wanted to check here first what the thoughts on this are. (Note
that it is much better to modify other packages to work with Cython
3.x!)

Best wishes,

Julian

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