Jeremy, Thank you for your quick reply!
I did not know about `sudo pip install --break-system-packages foo` or
`sudo rm /usr/lib/python3.11/EXTERNALLY-MANAGED` (Frankly I only knew about this issue what I have read on this discussion). This is very helpful and
it really changes my outlook on this topic.
IMHO the existence of these options completely satisfies the requirements
of advanced users. In particular because, if I understand it correctly, the second of these options would leave the configuration as it used to be in previous releases of debian for those who want that.
So then, for those that raised the issue, were you aware of these
approaches? Will either of them satisfy your requirements? And if not,
could you elaborate further on why not?
Thank you again.
On Fri, Mar 3, 2023 at 3:43 PM Jeremy Stanley <
fungi@yuggoth.org> wrote:
On 2023-03-03 15:29:09 -0500 (-0500), Jorge Moraleda wrote:
Would it be hard to support both philosophies?
I would like to suggest a couple of configuration options that by default disallow using pip outside a virtual environment but that users with root privilege can modify by editing a config file (probably somewhere in
/etc)
and that would enable using pip outside a virtual environment, both as
root
and as regular user respectively.
I feel this would satisfy the needs of regular users to be protected against accidentally breaking their system while enabling power users to have full control of their computer and enjoy the simplicity of a single environment. Clearly this discussion suggests that debian has both types
of
users and we should support them both if we can.
[...]
"Power users" who like to break their systems can simply `sudo pip
install --break-system-packages foo` or even just `sudo rm /usr/lib/python3.11/EXTERNALLY-MANAGED` and then do whatever they
want anyway. It doesn't seem to me like there's much need for a
config option that does that for you, and adding one would imply
that Debian will help you fix things once you've done it. This
feature is simply a guard rail for users who otherwise wouldn't know
where the edge of that cliff is located.
There are already solutions for your power users, but as is often
said in such situations: If it breaks you get to keep the pieces.
Have fun!
--
Jeremy Stanley
<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Jeremy, Thank you for your quick reply!<br><br> I did not know about `sudo pip install --break-system-packages foo` or `sudo rm /usr/lib/python3.11/EXTERNALLY-MANAGED` (Frankly I only
knew about this issue what I have read on this discussion). This is very helpful and it really changes my outlook on this topic.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">IMHO the
existence of these options completely satisfies the requirements of advanced users. In particular because, if I understand it correctly, the second of these options would leave the configuration as it used to be in previous releases of debian for those
who want that.<br><br>So then, for those that raised the issue, were you aware of these approaches? Will either of them satisfy your requirements? And if not, could you elaborate further on why not?<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:
small"> <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Thank you again.<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 3, 2023 at 3:43 PM Jeremy Stanley <<a href="mailto:
fungi@yuggoth.org">
fungi@yuggoth.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On 2023-03-03 15:29:09 -0500 (-0500), Jorge Moraleda wrote:<br>
> Would it be hard to support both philosophies?<br>
> <br>
> I would like to suggest a couple of configuration options that by default<br>
> disallow using pip outside a virtual environment but that users with root<br>
> privilege can modify by editing a config file (probably somewhere in /etc)<br>
> and that would enable using pip outside a virtual environment, both as root<br>
> and as regular user respectively.<br>
> <br>
> I feel this would satisfy the needs of regular users to be protected<br> > against accidentally breaking their system while enabling power users to<br>
> have full control of their computer and enjoy the simplicity of a single<br>
> environment. Clearly this discussion suggests that debian has both types of<br>
> users and we should support them both if we can.<br>
[...]<br>
"Power users" who like to break their systems can simply `sudo pip<br>
install --break-system-packages foo` or even just `sudo rm<br> /usr/lib/python3.11/EXTERNALLY-MANAGED` and then do whatever they<br>
want anyway. It doesn't seem to me like there's much need for a<br> config option that does that for you, and adding one would imply<br>
that Debian will help you fix things once you've done it. This<br>
feature is simply a guard rail for users who otherwise wouldn't know<br> where the edge of that cliff is located.<br>
There are already solutions for your power users, but as is often<br>
said in such situations: If it breaks you get to keep the pieces.<br>
Have fun!<br>
-- <br>
Jeremy Stanley<br>
</blockquote></div>
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