Hi Julian,

Am 05.02.23 um 11:38 schrieb Julian Gilbey:

Why is the current intention not to ship the python3.10 package in
bookworm?

Because it would amount to about double the work for all those involved.

Besides, Python 3.11 has some points for it:
- Real performance gains for real workloads
- It will be supported one year longer (so EOL is expected to be around the time bookworm will be out of stable, too).

I was trying to run some experiments in a virtual environment a few
days ago, and it turns out that several of the Python packages I
needed do not yet run on Python 3.11. I was saved by being able to
run in a Python 3.10 venv and download all the required packages from
PyPI. If bookworm shipped without python3.10, I would not have been
able to do my work. Removing python3.10 from bookworm will seriously
affect many of our users in a similar situation to me.

...

P.S. We should also fix #1036268 if we do keep python3.10 in bookworm;
I'm happy to do an NMU if needed.

Maybe you could sponsor a "backport" of Python3.11?

My 2 cents
Michael

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On February 5, 2023 5:22:33 PM UTC, Julian Gilbey <julian@d-and-j.net> wrote: >On Sun, Feb 05, 2023 at 02:41:08PM +0000, Stefano Rivera wrote:

Hi Julian (2023.02.05_10:38:23_+0000)

Why is the current intention not to ship the python3.10 package in
bookworm?

Because we aim to have a single Python release supported in every stable
release.

I am not suggesting that we revert to having Python 3.10 as a
"supported version" (that would be a whole separate discussion); I am >suggesting that we keep just the Python 3.10 interpreter and
python3.10-venv in bookworm, so that users can use it to run a virtual >environment if they need to do so.

That would narrow the impact, but it's not free either. The interpreter packages often need post-release support from the maintainer and the security team. Someone would also have to triage all the bug reports associated with Debian user expectations
for a Python version in Debian not being met.

Scott K

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Hi Michael,

On Sun, Feb 05, 2023 at 02:29:10PM +0100, Michael Kesper wrote:

Hi Julian,

Am 05.02.23 um 11:38 schrieb Julian Gilbey:

Why is the current intention not to ship the python3.10 package in bookworm?

Because it would amount to about double the work for all those involved.

I doubt it would be double the work, but as Scott points out in his
email, it would require paying attention to security issues in the
Python interpreter for both the 3.10 and 3.11 interpreters. I had not considered that.

Besides, Python 3.11 has some points for it:
- Real performance gains for real workloads
- It will be supported one year longer (so EOL is expected to be around the time bookworm will be out of stable, too).

I'm not proposing that we revert to Python 3.10 as default for
bookworm, only that we have the python3.10 package itself in
bookworm.

I was trying to run some experiments in a virtual environment a few
days ago, and it turns out that several of the Python packages I
needed do not yet run on Python 3.11. I was saved by being able to
run in a Python 3.10 venv and download all the required packages from
PyPI. If bookworm shipped without python3.10, I would not have been
able to do my work. Removing python3.10 from bookworm will seriously affect many of our users in a similar situation to me.

...

P.S. We should also fix #1036268 if we do keep python3.10 in bookworm;
I'm happy to do an NMU if needed.

Maybe you could sponsor a "backport" of Python3.11?

I don't understand this suggestion. #1036268 says that running
"python3.10 -m venv envname" if the python3.10-venv package is not
installed should output a meaningful error message rather than crash
with an "undefined variable" error.

Best wishes,

Julian

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