• Python 3.11 for bookworm?

    From Graham Inggs@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 13 01:00:03 2022
    Dear Python Team

    Looking at the current state of the 'adding Python 3.11 as a supported
    version' transition [1], the tracker [2] shows only 12 red packages
    (excluding unknowns and packages not in testing) remaining, copied
    below for reference.

    We believe all FTBFS and autopkgtest regression bugs have already been
    filed and tagged.

    The current state of bugs tagged 'python3.11' [3] is 116 resolved and
    49 still open. Many thanks to everyone who has contributed to fixing
    these, and especially to the organizers of the recent Python sprint
    [4].

    As this transition is non-blocking (i.e. uploaded packages are able to
    migrate ahead of python3-defaults), we could wait for the remaining
    bugs to be fixed, or for auto-removal to take its course. However,
    with the bookworm transition freeze only one month away [5], we'd like
    to hear from the Python Team within the next week whether they wish to
    proceed with Python 3.11 being the only supported version for bookworm
    (in which case we will allow python3-defaults to migrate right now)
    or, revert the changes in python3-defaults and have Python 3.10 as the
    only supported version for bookworm.

    Should it be the former, we'd like an undertaking from the Python Team
    that they will help resolve the remaining bugs against key packages
    [6], as these cannot easily be avoided by manual or auto-removals.

    On behalf of the Release Team
    Graham


    [1] https://bugs.debian.org/1021984
    [2] https://release.debian.org/transitions/html/python3.11-add.html
    [3] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?tag=python3.11&users=debian-python@lists.debian.org
    [4] https://veronneau.org/debian-python-team-2022-sprint-report.html
    [5] https://release.debian.org/bookworm/freeze_policy.html
    [6] https://udd.debian.org/bugs/?release=bookworm&merged=ign&fnewerval=7&flastmodval=7&fusertag=only&fusertagtag=python3.11&fusertaguser=debian-python%40lists.debian.org&rc=1&ckeypackage=1&sortby=id&sorto=asc&format=html#results



    Dependency level 2
    omniorb-dfsg
    python-pgmagick
    pythonmagick
    xdmf

    Dependency level 7
    boost1.74
    guiqwt
    python-line-profiler
    python-xmlsec

    Dependency level 8
    cypari2
    renpy

    Dependency level 10
    pybdsf

    Dependency level 13
    sunpy

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  • From Andrius Merkys@21:1/5 to Graham Inggs on Tue Dec 13 08:20:01 2022
    Hello,

    On 2022-12-13 01:51, Graham Inggs wrote:
    As this transition is non-blocking (i.e. uploaded packages are able to migrate ahead of python3-defaults), we could wait for the remaining
    bugs to be fixed, or for auto-removal to take its course. However,
    with the bookworm transition freeze only one month away [5], we'd like
    to hear from the Python Team within the next week whether they wish to proceed with Python 3.11 being the only supported version for bookworm
    (in which case we will allow python3-defaults to migrate right now)
    or, revert the changes in python3-defaults and have Python 3.10 as the
    only supported version for bookworm.

    Am I right that whichever the choice, there will be only one supported
    Python version in bookworm? I believe there are many packages that will
    FTBFS with Python 3.11 as default (i.e., packages that use only the
    default Python). Was there an attempt to rebuild the archive with that
    setting?

    [1] https://bugs.debian.org/1021984
    [2] https://release.debian.org/transitions/html/python3.11-add.html
    [3] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?tag=python3.11&users=debian-python@lists.debian.org
    [4] https://veronneau.org/debian-python-team-2022-sprint-report.html
    [5] https://release.debian.org/bookworm/freeze_policy.html
    [6] https://udd.debian.org/bugs/?release=bookworm&merged=ign&fnewerval=7&flastmodval=7&fusertag=only&fusertagtag=python3.11&fusertaguser=debian-python%40lists.debian.org&rc=1&ckeypackage=1&sortby=id&sorto=asc&format=html#results

    Best,
    Andrius

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  • From Timo =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=B6hling?=@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 13 10:20:01 2022
    * Graham Inggs <ginggs@debian.org> [2022-12-12 23:51]:
    with the bookworm transition freeze only one month away [5], we'd like
    to hear from the Python Team within the next week whether they wish to >proceed with Python 3.11 being the only supported version for bookworm
    [...]
    Should it be the former, we'd like an undertaking from the Python Team
    that they will help resolve the remaining bugs against key packages

    One remaining problem is the unmaintained nose package, which is not
    compatible with Python 3.11 and still a dependency of 200+ packages,
    including ~40 key packages [1]. I've seen that crusoe has done some work patching up nose, but AFAICT it is not building yet.

    Is this something we can resolve in time, either by fixing nose or
    removing it altogether?

    If yes, +1 for Python 3.11


    Cheers
    Timo


    [1] https://udd.debian.org/bugs/?release=bookworm&merged=ign&fnewerval=7&flastmodval=7&fusertag=only&fusertagtag=nose-rm&fusertaguser=python-modules-team%40lists.alioth.debian.org&allbugs=1&ckeypackage=1&sortby=id&sorto=asc&format=html#results

    --
    ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ╭────────────────────────────────────────────────────╮
    ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ │ Timo Röhling │
    ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ │ 9B03 EBB9 8300 DF97 C2B1 23BF CC8C 6BDD 1403 F4CA │
    ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ ╰────────────────────────────────────────────────────╯

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  • From c.buhtz@posteo.jp@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 13 11:00:01 2022
    Am 13.12.2022 10:15 schrieb Timo Röhling:
    One remaining problem is the unmaintained nose package
    [...]
    done some work patching up nose

    This question is just for my learning: Why is nose patched? Upstream
    nose is unmaintained for years.

    I understand that you cannot drop nose from Debian in the current
    situation of a freeze in one months and so many dependencies.

    But isn't there a Debian process/workflow to "warn" package maintainers
    about an upcoming package drop of one of there dependend packages to put
    some pressure into it? Looking into the list of over 200 packages I see
    this also as a chance to clean out some other unmaintained (and maybe
    not so important) packages from the Debian repo.

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  • From Dmitry Shachnev@21:1/5 to c.buhtz@posteo.jp on Tue Dec 13 11:10:02 2022
    Hi all,

    On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 10:15:37AM +0100, Timo Rhling wrote:
    One remaining problem is the unmaintained nose package, which is not compatible with Python 3.11 and still a dependency of 200+ packages, including ~40 key packages [1]. I've seen that crusoe has done some work patching up nose, but AFAICT it is not building yet.

    Is this something we can resolve in time, either by fixing nose or
    removing it altogether?

    I will try to fix nose. The remaining problem is just failing doctest.

    On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 09:57:57AM +0000, c.buhtz@posteo.jp wrote:
    This question is just for my learning: Why is nose patched? Upstream nose is unmaintained for years.

    I understand that you cannot drop nose from Debian in the current situation of a freeze in one months and so many dependencies.

    But isn't there a Debian process/workflow to "warn" package maintainers
    about an upcoming package drop of one of there dependend packages to put
    some pressure into it? Looking into the list of over 200 packages I see this also as a chance to clean out some other unmaintained (and maybe not so important) packages from the Debian repo.

    There are bugs filed against every package:

    https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?users=python-modules-team@lists.alioth.debian.org;tag=nose-rm

    --
    Dmitry Shachnev

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  • From Julian Gilbey@21:1/5 to Graham Inggs on Tue Dec 13 13:40:02 2022
    Hi Graham,

    On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 11:51:11PM +0000, Graham Inggs wrote:
    Dear Python Team

    Looking at the current state of the 'adding Python 3.11 as a supported version' transition [1], the tracker [2] shows only 12 red packages (excluding unknowns and packages not in testing) remaining, copied
    below for reference.
    [...]

    If Python 3.11 is the default, then it is highly likely that Spyder
    will not be included: debugpy, which is a dependency of Spyder and python3-ipykernel (and lots of things that depend on that) seems to
    require major work upstream to make it fully compatible with Python
    3.11. This is work in progress, but I don't know whether it will be
    ready in time for the freeze. At the moment, I have worked around
    this problem by just skipping the failing tests, but that is far from
    an ideal solution.

    Best wishes,

    Julian

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Louis-Philippe_V=c3=a9ron@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 13 17:10:01 2022
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  • From Graham Inggs@21:1/5 to Andrius Merkys on Tue Dec 13 19:50:02 2022
    Hi Andrius

    On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 at 07:13, Andrius Merkys <merkys@debian.org> wrote:
    Am I right that whichever the choice, there will be only one supported
    Python version in bookworm?

    Yes, I believe that was the decision made at DebConf 22.

    I believe there are many packages that will
    FTBFS with Python 3.11 as default (i.e., packages that use only the
    default Python). Was there an attempt to rebuild the archive with that setting?

    A typical test rebuild will only catch FTBFS in dependency level one
    (and maybe level two) of the transition tracker. In the higher
    levels, you'll get false positives due to failed imports of the
    modules that need rebuilding. Similarly, uploading python3-defaults
    to experimental and checking for autopkgtest failures will also result
    in false positives.

    For reference, the python3.11-add tracker lists 594 packages
    (excluding unknowns), and the python3.11-default tracker lists 351.
    With the ben files currently used in the trackers, packages still red
    on the first tracker also appear on the second.

    For what it's worth, an incremental test rebuild of the first three
    dependency levels was done in an Ubuntu PPA [3]. Roughly 80% of the
    packages involved in the python3.11-default transition were tested,
    and roughly 80% of the builds were successful. All build failures are
    counted here, including dependency-wait and architectures that have
    never had a successful build. A similar test rebuild was done in
    January 2022 for Python 3.10 [4] and I think the numbers indicate we
    are in a very similar state.

    Regards
    Graham


    [1] https://release.debian.org/transitions/html/python3.11-add.html
    [2] https://release.debian.org/transitions/html/python3.11-default.html
    [3] https://launchpad.net/~pythoneers/+archive/ubuntu/python3.11-default
    [4] https://launchpad.net/~pythoneers/+archive/ubuntu/python3.10-default

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  • From Thomas Goirand@21:1/5 to c.buhtz@posteo.jp on Thu Dec 15 16:10:01 2022
    On 12/13/22 10:57, c.buhtz@posteo.jp wrote:
    Am 13.12.2022 10:15 schrieb Timo Röhling:
    One remaining problem is the unmaintained nose package
    [...]
    done some work patching up nose

    This question is just for my learning: Why is nose patched? Upstream
    nose is unmaintained for years.

    I understand that you cannot drop nose from Debian in the current
    situation of a freeze in one months and so many dependencies.

    But isn't there a Debian process/workflow to "warn" package maintainers
    about an upcoming package drop of one of there dependend packages to put
    some pressure into it? Looking into the list of over 200 packages I see
    this also as a chance to clean out some other unmaintained (and maybe
    not so important) packages from the Debian repo.

    It's unfortunately sometimes a bit harder than what one may think.
    Removing Nose from (build-)depends in some cases is hard, and IMO we
    started this process a way too late. Hopefully, Trixie will be
    nose-free! In the mean time, it is unfortunately my opinion that it's
    too late for Bookworm and that we must keep Nose for one more release.

    Cheers,

    Thomas Goirand (zigo)

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  • From Thomas Goirand@21:1/5 to Julian Gilbey on Thu Dec 15 16:20:01 2022
    On 12/13/22 13:34, Julian Gilbey wrote:
    Hi Graham,

    On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 11:51:11PM +0000, Graham Inggs wrote:
    Dear Python Team

    Looking at the current state of the 'adding Python 3.11 as a supported
    version' transition [1], the tracker [2] shows only 12 red packages
    (excluding unknowns and packages not in testing) remaining, copied
    below for reference.
    [...]

    If Python 3.11 is the default, then it is highly likely that Spyder
    will not be included: debugpy, which is a dependency of Spyder and python3-ipykernel (and lots of things that depend on that) seems to
    require major work upstream to make it fully compatible with Python
    3.11. This is work in progress, but I don't know whether it will be
    ready in time for the freeze. At the moment, I have worked around
    this problem by just skipping the failing tests, but that is far from
    an ideal solution.

    Best wishes,

    Julian

    Hi Julian,

    It's probably ok if it's a *TEMPORARY* solution until upstream fixes
    everything in time for the release (which is months after the freeze).
    The question is: do you believe this may happen for let's say next March?

    Cheers,

    Thomas Goirand (zigo)

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  • From Thomas Goirand@21:1/5 to Graham Inggs on Thu Dec 15 16:20:01 2022
    On 12/13/22 00:51, Graham Inggs wrote:
    Dear Python Team

    Looking at the current state of the 'adding Python 3.11 as a supported version' transition [1], the tracker [2] shows only 12 red packages (excluding unknowns and packages not in testing) remaining, copied
    below for reference.

    We believe all FTBFS and autopkgtest regression bugs have already been
    filed and tagged.

    The current state of bugs tagged 'python3.11' [3] is 116 resolved and
    49 still open. Many thanks to everyone who has contributed to fixing
    these, and especially to the organizers of the recent Python sprint
    [4].

    As this transition is non-blocking (i.e. uploaded packages are able to migrate ahead of python3-defaults), we could wait for the remaining
    bugs to be fixed, or for auto-removal to take its course. However,
    with the bookworm transition freeze only one month away [5], we'd like
    to hear from the Python Team within the next week whether they wish to proceed with Python 3.11 being the only supported version for bookworm
    (in which case we will allow python3-defaults to migrate right now)
    or, revert the changes in python3-defaults and have Python 3.10 as the
    only supported version for bookworm.

    Should it be the former, we'd like an undertaking from the Python Team
    that they will help resolve the remaining bugs against key packages
    [6], as these cannot easily be avoided by manual or auto-removals.

    On behalf of the Release Team
    Graham


    Hi Graham,

    For OpenStack, I believe I was able to fix all Python 3.11 bugs (often
    with the help of upstream, a few times, on my own but very trivial fixes
    like the easy getargspec -> getfullargspec). The remaining filled RC
    bugs because of Python 3.11, I don't really mind (even if these 5
    packages are AUTORM, I'm fine with that, they aren't key packages from
    the OpenStack perspective).

    However, there's still one very annoying bug in flask-restful that makes
    it not rebuild under Python 3.11. Keystone needs flask-restful, so I
    *must* fix it.

    Note here that #1024913 is because of another issue (ie: the autopkgtest functional test doesn't support more than one available Python
    interpreter, though it's easy to fix: simply kill the server between
    runs...). Though it hides the real FTBFS issue (failure in unit tests),
    which I believe is probably due to my upgrade of werkzeug 2.2.2 rather
    than Python 3.11.

    Help would be greatly appreciated fixing this bug. Hopefully, I can get
    this done during my holidays (and avoid any other work...).

    Cheers,

    Thomas Goirand (zigo)

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  • From Dmitry Shachnev@21:1/5 to Thomas Goirand on Thu Dec 15 17:20:01 2022
    On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 04:08:29PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
    It's unfortunately sometimes a bit harder than what one may think. Removing Nose from (build-)depends in some cases is hard, and IMO we started this process a way too late. Hopefully, Trixie will be nose-free! In the mean time, it is unfortunately my opinion that it's too late for Bookworm and
    that we must keep Nose for one more release.

    I forgot to reply here, but I uploaded fixed nose on Tuesday:

    https://tracker.debian.org/news/1398350/accepted-nose-137-9-source-into-unstable/

    --
    Dmitry Shachnev

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  • From Thomas Goirand@21:1/5 to Thomas Goirand on Fri Dec 16 10:50:01 2022
    On 12/15/22 16:18, Thomas Goirand wrote:
    On 12/13/22 00:51, Graham Inggs wrote:
    Dear Python Team

    Looking at the current state of the 'adding Python 3.11 as a supported
    version' transition [1], the tracker [2] shows only 12 red packages
    (excluding unknowns and packages not in testing) remaining, copied
    below for reference.

    We believe all FTBFS and autopkgtest regression bugs have already been
    filed and tagged.

    The current state of bugs tagged 'python3.11' [3] is 116 resolved and
    49 still open.  Many thanks to everyone who has contributed to fixing
    these, and especially to the organizers of the recent Python sprint
    [4].

    As this transition is non-blocking (i.e. uploaded packages are able to
    migrate ahead of python3-defaults), we could wait for the remaining
    bugs to be fixed, or for auto-removal to take its course.  However,
    with the bookworm transition freeze only one month away [5], we'd like
    to hear from the Python Team within the next week whether they wish to
    proceed with Python 3.11 being the only supported version for bookworm
    (in which case we will allow python3-defaults to migrate right now)
    or, revert the changes in python3-defaults and have Python 3.10 as the
    only supported version for bookworm.

    Should it be the former, we'd like an undertaking from the Python Team
    that they will help resolve the remaining bugs against key packages
    [6], as these cannot easily be avoided by manual or auto-removals.

    On behalf of the Release Team
    Graham


    Hi Graham,

    For OpenStack, I believe I was able to fix all Python 3.11 bugs (often
    with the help of upstream, a few times, on my own but very trivial fixes
    like the easy getargspec -> getfullargspec). The remaining filled RC
    bugs because of Python 3.11, I don't really mind (even if these 5
    packages are AUTORM, I'm fine with that, they aren't key packages from
    the OpenStack perspective).

    However, there's still one very annoying bug in flask-restful that makes
    it not rebuild under Python 3.11. Keystone needs flask-restful, so I
    *must* fix it.

    Note here that #1024913 is because of another issue (ie: the autopkgtest functional test doesn't support more than one available Python
    interpreter, though it's easy to fix: simply kill the server between runs...). Though it hides the real FTBFS issue (failure in unit tests),
    which I believe is probably due to my upgrade of werkzeug 2.2.2 rather
    than Python 3.11.

    Help would be greatly appreciated fixing this bug. Hopefully, I can get
    this done during my holidays (and avoid any other work...).

    Cheers,

    Thomas Goirand (zigo)

    FYI, I have just uploaded a new Debian release of this package that
    fixes all the issues, thanks to a colleague of mine that had time to
    help (which I didn't really have...).

    So, I believe I'm all good regarding OpenStack packages right now (even
    if that last one was werkzeug 2.2.2 related, not python 3.11).

    Cheers,

    Thomas Goirand (zigo)

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  • From Julian Gilbey@21:1/5 to Thomas Goirand on Sun Dec 18 19:10:01 2022
    On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 04:10:05PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
    On 12/13/22 13:34, Julian Gilbey wrote:
    If Python 3.11 is the default, then it is highly likely that Spyder
    will not be included: debugpy, which is a dependency of Spyder and python3-ipykernel (and lots of things that depend on that) seems to
    require major work upstream to make it fully compatible with Python
    3.11. This is work in progress, but I don't know whether it will be
    ready in time for the freeze. At the moment, I have worked around
    this problem by just skipping the failing tests, but that is far from
    an ideal solution.

    It's probably ok if it's a *TEMPORARY* solution until upstream fixes everything in time for the release (which is months after the freeze). The question is: do you believe this may happen for let's say next March?

    The truth is that I don't know. Upstream is very good, but the Python
    3.11 internal changes are very significant, and debugpy (along with
    pydevd, which is part of debugpy) are deeply affected by this, as they
    work at the level of Python's internals. So I don't know how long it
    will take them to make the required changes (and it's far beyond my
    capability or capacity to do myself). I can hope they'll do it in
    time for the freeze, but I wouldn't like to place a bet on it.

    Best wishes,

    Julian

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  • From Julian Gilbey@21:1/5 to Julian Gilbey on Mon Dec 19 10:50:01 2022
    On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 06:02:58PM +0000, Julian Gilbey wrote:
    On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 04:10:05PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
    On 12/13/22 13:34, Julian Gilbey wrote:
    If Python 3.11 is the default, then it is highly likely that Spyder
    will not be included: debugpy, which is a dependency of Spyder and python3-ipykernel (and lots of things that depend on that) seems to require major work upstream to make it fully compatible with Python
    3.11. This is work in progress, but I don't know whether it will be ready in time for the freeze. At the moment, I have worked around
    this problem by just skipping the failing tests, but that is far from
    an ideal solution.

    It's probably ok if it's a *TEMPORARY* solution until upstream fixes everything in time for the release (which is months after the freeze). The question is: do you believe this may happen for let's say next March?

    The truth is that I don't know. Upstream is very good, but the Python
    3.11 internal changes are very significant, and debugpy (along with
    pydevd, which is part of debugpy) are deeply affected by this, as they
    work at the level of Python's internals. So I don't know how long it
    will take them to make the required changes (and it's far beyond my capability or capacity to do myself). I can hope they'll do it in
    time for the freeze, but I wouldn't like to place a bet on it.

    Quick update: with the updating of python3-bytecode from 0.13 to 0.14
    in unstable/testing, which allows it to handle Python 3.11, something
    has changed and now pydevd doesn't even pass the tests on Python
    3.10. The python3-bytecode underwent a major restructuring, so it is
    entirely possible that something has changed that wasn't part of the
    advertised API or something like that. But that's for upstream pydevd developers to deal with.

    One possibility is that we revert to the situation in bullseye if
    pydevd is not ready in time for the freeze. Bullseye didn't have bytecode/pydevd/debugpy, and it meant that debugging was limited in
    Spyder: we remove python3-debugpy from the dependencies of
    python3-ipykernel and then the rest of the dependency chain will be
    OK. It's certainly not an ideal solution, but it may be the best we
    can do if we're sticking with Python 3.11. It may actually be worth
    doing that at this point so that Spyder can stay in testing for the
    time being, even though pydevd and debugpy won't.

    Best wishes,

    Julian

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  • From Jochen Sprickerhof@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 19 17:00:02 2022
    Hi Julian,

    * Julian Gilbey <julian@d-and-j.net> [2022-12-19 09:41]:
    Quick update: with the updating of python3-bytecode from 0.13 to 0.14
    in unstable/testing, which allows it to handle Python 3.11, something
    has changed and now pydevd doesn't even pass the tests on Python
    3.10. The python3-bytecode underwent a major restructuring, so it is >entirely possible that something has changed that wasn't part of the >advertised API or something like that. But that's for upstream pydevd >developers to deal with.

    I've uploaded 0.14.0-2 that should fix this. As far as I've found that
    was only a minor fix in the Debian specific offset patch, sorry for the trouble.

    Cheers Jochen

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  • From Julian Gilbey@21:1/5 to Jochen Sprickerhof on Mon Dec 19 21:30:01 2022
    Hi Jochen,

    On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 04:53:58PM +0100, Jochen Sprickerhof wrote:
    Hi Julian,

    * Julian Gilbey <julian@d-and-j.net> [2022-12-19 09:41]:
    Quick update: with the updating of python3-bytecode from 0.13 to 0.14
    in unstable/testing, which allows it to handle Python 3.11, something
    has changed and now pydevd doesn't even pass the tests on Python
    3.10. The python3-bytecode underwent a major restructuring, so it is entirely possible that something has changed that wasn't part of the advertised API or something like that. But that's for upstream pydevd developers to deal with.

    I've uploaded 0.14.0-2 that should fix this. As far as I've found that was only a minor fix in the Debian specific offset patch, sorry for the trouble.

    Phew! I didn't think to check that. Unfortunately, though, there are
    still numerous pydevd test errors even with 0.14.0-2, so I think
    something has changed in bytecode that the pydevd maintainers will
    have to adapt to. So either I skip 14 newly failing tests on Python
    3.10 (they're mostly skipped on 3.11 as the current pydevd version
    skips bytecode tests on Python 3.11) or wait for a new version of
    pydevd. Hmmm.

    Anyway, thanks so much for all your work updating this package - it's
    been really helpful, as I've been a bit overloaded and Spyder 5.4.0
    together with the Python 3.11 transition has been a lot to handle. I
    also learnt a lot from your changes!

    Best wishes,

    Julian

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  • From Andreas Tille@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 30 10:30:02 2022
    Am Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 01:54:13AM +0100 schrieb Thomas Goirand:

    While I can agree that it may be harsh, and that some packages wont be fixed in time, I can't let you say that there was only 1 month given, and that all of this comes as a surprise. We've been talking about this since last
    summer.

    True, I remember the DebConf Python BoF. My memory tells me that the
    plan was to keep 3.10 as default. Thus Python 3.11 would be really a
    surprise. From a maintainers team with lots of Python packages that
    will need heavy work I can't say I'd be happy about a "migrate and see
    what might happen afterwards" strategy as it was proposed here. We have
    lots to do even without such an experiment.

    Well, that's not the first time we are trying to push the latest interpreter close to a release.

    The fact that we did so before does not make the idea better.

    I also very much would appreciate help on these (which all look like
    probably related to py3.11):

    #1026524 ironic-inspector: FTBFS: AttributeError: '_thread.RLock' object has no attribute 'is_locked'
    #1026547 python-pypowervm: FTBFS: AssertionError: Expected 'warn' to be called once. Called 2 times.
    #1026549 python-pytest-xprocess: FTBFS: tests failed
    #1026591 cinder: FTBFS: make[1]: pyversions: No such file or directory #1026595 python-murano-pkg-check: FTBFS: TypeError: load_all() missing 1 required positional argument: 'Loader'
    #1026610 horizon: FTBFS: tests failed
    #1026691 bandit: FTBFS: TypeError: load() missing 1 required positional argument: 'Loader'
    #1026693 cloudkitty: FTBFS: touch: cannot touch '/<<PKGBUILDDIR>>/debian/cloudkitty-doc/usr/share/doc/cloudkitty-doc/html/_static/toggle.js':
    No such file or directory
    #1026702 python-cursive: FTBFS: AttributeError: '_RSAPrivateKey' object has no attribute 'signer'
    #1026705 python-pecan: FTBFS: E AttributeError: 'code' object has no attribute 'co_endlinetable'
    #1026707 jenkins-job-builder: FTBFS: E: pybuild pybuild:386: test: plugin custom failed with: exit code=1: PYTHON=python3.10 stestr run

    If I would create a list mine whould be way longer. (The list of
    successful fixes we did in the Debian Med team is also quite
    impressive.) We are constantly beaten by removal from testing warnings
    even with Python3.11 as an option and sometimes we simply need to remove
    that option as a temporary means for bookworm.

    To sum-up: while I'm not 100% on the side of breaking things that close to a release, and would also feel it very painful if one of the above bugs isn't fixed in time, I don't feel like you guys are giving good point of argumentation, or a solution to improve the process. Doko already explained that switching the interpreter (the hard way) is the only viable way to find out the remaining bugs. Do you have a better solution in mind?

    No better solution but better timing which means after bookworm release.

    Kind regards
    Andreas.


    --
    http://fam-tille.de

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  • From Thomas Goirand@21:1/5 to Andreas Tille on Thu Jan 5 14:00:01 2023
    Hi Andreas,

    On 12/30/22 10:22, Andreas Tille wrote:
    True, I remember the DebConf Python BoF. My memory tells me that the
    plan was to keep 3.10 as default. Thus Python 3.11 would be really a surprise. From a maintainers team with lots of Python packages that
    will need heavy work I can't say I'd be happy about a "migrate and see
    what might happen afterwards" strategy as it was proposed here. We have
    lots to do even without such an experiment.

    This has since already been discussed here: the final decision was to
    "at least try 3.11", which is exactly what we're doing.


    Well, that's not the first time we are trying to push the latest interpreter >> close to a release.

    The fact that we did so before does not make the idea better.

    I also very much would appreciate help on these (which all look like
    probably related to py3.11):

    #1026524 ironic-inspector: FTBFS: AttributeError: '_thread.RLock' object has >> no attribute 'is_locked'
    #1026547 python-pypowervm: FTBFS: AssertionError: Expected 'warn' to be
    called once. Called 2 times.
    #1026549 python-pytest-xprocess: FTBFS: tests failed
    #1026591 cinder: FTBFS: make[1]: pyversions: No such file or directory
    #1026595 python-murano-pkg-check: FTBFS: TypeError: load_all() missing 1
    required positional argument: 'Loader'
    #1026610 horizon: FTBFS: tests failed
    #1026691 bandit: FTBFS: TypeError: load() missing 1 required positional
    argument: 'Loader'
    #1026693 cloudkitty: FTBFS: touch: cannot touch '/<<PKGBUILDDIR>>/debian/cloudkitty-doc/usr/share/doc/cloudkitty-doc/html/_static/toggle.js':
    No such file or directory
    #1026702 python-cursive: FTBFS: AttributeError: '_RSAPrivateKey' object has >> no attribute 'signer'
    #1026705 python-pecan: FTBFS: E AttributeError: 'code' object has no
    attribute 'co_endlinetable'
    #1026707 jenkins-job-builder: FTBFS: E: pybuild pybuild:386: test: plugin
    custom failed with: exit code=1: PYTHON=python3.10 stestr run

    FYI, I'm down with only 2 major bugs (I don't mind much if the other 3
    RC bugs push the 3 affected packages away from the release, it's just a
    "would be nice" thing ATM):

    #1026524 ironic-inspector: FTBFS: AttributeError: '_thread.RLock' object
    has no attribute 'is_locked'
    #1026591 cinder: FTBFS: make[1]: pyversions: No such file or directory

    The first one also appears in Python 3.10.9, but seems not present in
    Python 3.10.6, as per a discussion with upstream on IRC. It looks like
    the default threading thingy has changed a little bit, leading to
    this... I know already how to fix the actual executed code, but this
    leaves some wrong tests (assert called), so I'm waiting to see if
    upstream can do better than me.

    For the Cinder bug, it looks like a test-only issue, which upstream is
    already working on. Worst case: blacklist these 250 failing tests, which
    is better than what it sounds (ie: just like Ironic, the actual
    production code is ok...).

    If I would create a list mine whould be way longer.

    Please share it in this list!

    We are constantly beaten by removal from testing warnings
    even with Python3.11 as an option and sometimes we simply need to remove
    that option as a temporary means for bookworm.

    Same over here. It's finally looking good for me after 2 months of heavy efforts.

    No better solution but better timing which means after bookworm release.

    I've read *many* people saying it would be disappointing for them to see
    their package removed because of Python 3.11. Well, please consider that
    it would also be very disappointing to *not* have Python 3.11 for those
    who managed constantly fix issues for it.

    The timing was exactly what was discussed during Debconf: it's very
    annoying that this year, upstream Python release was one month late...
    we're only trying to deal with it.

    Cheers,

    Thomas Goirand (zigo)

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  • From =?utf-8?Q?=C3=89tienne?= Mollier@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 10 22:50:01 2023
    Hi,

    For information I tagged [#1027851] with help needed for the
    python3.11 port of pytorch, following a message from its main
    uploader. To people who might like to have a look at it: please
    be careful as pytorch may be quite the resource hog and time
    sink if one's time is better spent somewhere else.

    #1027851: pytorch FTBFS with Python 3.11 as default version

    [#1027851]: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1027851

    Have a nice day, :)
    --
    Étienne Mollier <emollier@emlwks999.eu>
    Fingerprint: 8f91 b227 c7d6 f2b1 948c 8236 793c f67e 8f0d 11da
    Sent from /dev/pts/1, please excuse my verbosity.
    On air: A Liquid Landscape - Secret isle

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