Hi

I have an upstream who doesn't have any interest what so ever to migrate
to GTK3, who specifically says

I suspect that by the time GTK2 is no longer available - Asunder will
no longer be a relevant application, and it can be removed from
distributions without anyone noticing.

I am considering orphaning it, with the tiniest hope that he changes
his mind and accept a GTK3 migration, in which case I would gladly pick
up Debian maintenance again.

But, is it any use? Would it perhaps be even better to remove it from
unstable right now, and be done with it? A package can be added later
again if things change.

Input would be greatly appreciated.

/Andreas Rönnquist
mailinglists@gusnan.se
gusnan@debian.org

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On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 13:17:11 +0200,
Pál Tamás Ács<palikacska@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Andreas,

It's completely understandable that some devs don't want to migrate to
GTK3 as it just can't be seen as a proper successor of GTK2. GTK3 is
still slower, much more unstable and immature than latest (now only >maintenance) versions of GTK2. There are many API breaks among minor >versions. There are several bugs Red Hat is unwilling to fix. There
are several annoyances and anti-features like mandatory recursive
search <https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/839> and several
parts of the general widget elements are underdeveloped or
intentionally dumbed down to give the unprofessional look of an
Android tablet on a desktop computer which is just insane.

I think it would be a better and more constructive idea to consider
keeping the latest maintenance release of GTK2 in upstream and
maintain it on Debian level with local patches. The only question is
whether we have enough maintainers for that.

Best,
Pál Tamás Ács

Well, as I understand GTK2 will be removed (or at least the GTK
maintainers would like to see packages migrate to GTK3). Do you mean
that I should maintain a GTK2 to 3 conversion of asunder in Debian only,
which upstream have no interest in? I doubt you will find many
developers who would want to do such maintenance.

I would like to remove asunder from Debian, and if a GTK3 upstream
conversion is released (by the asunder upstream maintainer or by
someone else), I would gladly package that in Debian.

/Andreas

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Dear Andreas,

It's completely understandable that some devs don't want to migrate to GTK3
as it just can't be seen as a proper successor of GTK2. GTK3 is still
slower, much more unstable and immature than latest (now only maintenance) versions of GTK2. There are many API breaks among minor versions. There are several bugs Red Hat is unwilling to fix. There are several annoyances and anti-features like mandatory recursive search <https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/839> and several parts of the general widget elements are underdeveloped or intentionally dumbed down to
give the unprofessional look of an Android tablet on a desktop computer
which is just insane.

I think it would be a better and more constructive idea to consider keeping
the latest maintenance release of GTK2 in upstream and maintain it on
Debian level with local patches. The only question is whether we have
enough maintainers for that.

Best,
Pál Tamás Ács

On Sat, Aug 22, 2020 at 9:15 PM Andreas Ronnquist <mailinglists@gusnan.se> wrote:

Hi

I have an upstream who doesn't have any interest what so ever to migrate
to GTK3, who specifically says

I suspect that by the time GTK2 is no longer available - Asunder will
no longer be a relevant application, and it can be removed from >distributions without anyone noticing.

I am considering orphaning it, with the tiniest hope that he changes
his mind and accept a GTK3 migration, in which case I would gladly pick
up Debian maintenance again.

But, is it any use? Would it perhaps be even better to remove it from unstable right now, and be done with it? A package can be added later
again if things change.

Input would be greatly appreciated.

/Andreas Rönnquist
mailinglists@gusnan.se
gusnan@debian.org

<div dir="ltr">Dear Andreas,<div><br></div><div></div><div>It&#39;s completely understandable that some devs don&#39;t want to migrate to GTK3 as it just can&#39;t be seen as a proper successor of GTK2. GTK3 is still slower, much more unstable and
immature than latest (now only maintenance) versions of GTK2. There are many API breaks among minor versions. There are several bugs Red Hat is unwilling to fix. There are several annoyances and anti-features like <a href="https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/
gtk/-/issues/839">mandatory recursive search</a> and several parts of the general widget elements are underdeveloped or intentionally dumbed down to give the unprofessional look of an Android tablet on a desktop computer which is just insane.<br></div><

<br></div><div>I think it would be a better and more constructive idea to consider keeping the latest maintenance release of GTK2 in upstream and maintain it on Debian level with local patches. The only question is whether we have enough maintainers

for that.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Pál Tamás Ács</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug 22, 2020 at 9:15 PM Andreas Ronnquist &lt;<a href="mailto:mailinglists@gusnan.se">mailinglists@
gusnan.se</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi<br>

I have an upstream who doesn&#39;t have any interest what so ever to migrate<br>
to GTK3, who specifically says<br>

&gt;I suspect that by the time GTK2 is no longer available - Asunder will<br> &gt;no longer be a relevant application, and it can be removed from<br> &gt;distributions without anyone noticing.<br>

I am considering orphaning it, with the tiniest hope that he changes<br>
his mind and accept a GTK3 migration, in which case I would gladly pick<br>
up Debian maintenance again.<br>

But, is it any use? Would it perhaps be even better to remove it from<br> unstable right now, and be done with it? A package can be added later<br>
again if things change.<br>

Input would be greatly appreciated.<br>

/Andreas Rönnquist<br>
<a href="mailto:mailinglists@gusnan.se" target="_blank">mailinglists@gusnan.se</a><br>
<a href="mailto:gusnan@debian.org" target="_blank">gusnan@debian.org</a><br>

</blockquote></div>

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On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 11:36 AM Andreas Ronnquist wrote:

I would like to remove asunder from Debian, and if a GTK3 upstream
conversion is released (by the asunder upstream maintainer or by
someone else), I would gladly package that in Debian.

There are a few additional factors here:

CDs are kind of obsolete, audio distribution has mostly moved to
online platforms.

There is already a GTK3 CD ripper in Debian called sound-juicer.

FreeDB has been closed and asunder doesn't support the alternative (AFAICT).

http://www.gusnan.se/blog/programming/freedb-is-closing-its-service/

Personally I think it would be fine to leave it out of Debian for now.

--
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

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On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 00:09:00 +0000,
Paul Wise<pabs@debian.org> wrote:

On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 11:36 AM Andreas Ronnquist wrote:

I would like to remove asunder from Debian, and if a GTK3 upstream
conversion is released (by the asunder upstream maintainer or by
someone else), I would gladly package that in Debian.

There are a few additional factors here:

CDs are kind of obsolete, audio distribution has mostly moved to
online platforms.

There is already a GTK3 CD ripper in Debian called sound-juicer.

FreeDB has been closed and asunder doesn't support the alternative
(AFAICT).

http://www.gusnan.se/blog/programming/freedb-is-closing-its-service/

Personally I think it would be fine to leave it out of Debian for now.

Actually even though freedb is closed, there's gnudb.org which work ok
as a replacement, so _that_ isn't a reason to remove asunder.

-- Andreas Rönnquist
mailinglists@gusnan.se
gusnan@debian.org

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