• Alexander's Good Points

    From David Amicus@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 16 14:18:09 2020
    Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that Alexander did like destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.

    Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest came out of Jerusalem to greet him.

    Other?

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  • From David Amicus@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 16 14:25:18 2020
    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Alexander_the_Great_in_the_Temple_of_Jerusalem.jpg

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  • From Ed Cryer@21:1/5 to David Amicus on Thu Dec 17 09:20:08 2020
    David Amicus <davidamicus22@gmail.com> wrote:
    Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that Alexander did like destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.

    Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest
    came out of Jerusalem to greet him.

    Other?


    He spread Greek language and culture all over the east.
    Alexandria grew into a great centre of learning, mostly due, I suppose, to general Ptolemy.

    --
    Ed

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  • From David Amicus@21:1/5 to Ed Cryer on Thu Dec 17 08:06:45 2020
    On Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 1:20:10 AM UTC-8, Ed Cryer wrote:
    David Amicus <davida...@gmail.com> wrote:
    Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that Alexander did like destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.

    Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest
    came out of Jerusalem to greet him.

    Other?

    He spread Greek language and culture all over the east.
    Alexandria grew into a great centre of learning, mostly due, I suppose, to general Ptolemy.

    --
    Ed
    I've thought maybe the Hindu war god SKANDA was named for him.

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  • From Ed Cryer@21:1/5 to David Amicus on Fri Dec 18 09:23:49 2020
    David Amicus wrote:
    On Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 1:20:10 AM UTC-8, Ed Cryer wrote:
    David Amicus <davida...@gmail.com> wrote:
    Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that Alexander did like
    destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.

    Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest
    came out of Jerusalem to greet him.

    Other?

    He spread Greek language and culture all over the east.
    Alexandria grew into a great centre of learning, mostly due, I suppose, to >> general Ptolemy.

    --
    Ed
    I've thought maybe the Hindu war god SKANDA was named for him.


    I once worked with a Pakistani called Sikander. He heard me talking to
    someone about Alexander The Great, and later told me he was named after him.

    In Pakistan they have a myth of a great hero of that name who came their
    way.

    You've probably seen lots of pictures of Alexander talking to Diogenes
    the Cynic. Well, read about Alexander and the naked Indian philosophers; https://bit.ly/2LAPqkr

    Ed

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  • From John W Kennedy@21:1/5 to Ed Cryer on Fri Dec 18 11:46:21 2020
    On 12/18/20 4:23 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    David Amicus wrote:
    On Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 1:20:10 AM UTC-8, Ed Cryer wrote:
    David Amicus <davida...@gmail.com> wrote:
    Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that Alexander did like >>>> destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.

    Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest
    came out of Jerusalem to greet him.

    Other?

    He spread Greek language and culture all over the east.
    Alexandria grew into a great centre of learning, mostly due, I
    suppose, to
    general Ptolemy.

    --
    Ed
    I've thought maybe the Hindu war god SKANDA was named for him.


    I once worked with a Pakistani called Sikander. He heard me talking to someone about Alexander The Great, and later told me he was named after
    him.

    In Pakistan they have a myth of a great hero of that name who came their
    way.

    You've probably seen lots of pictures of Alexander talking to Diogenes
    the Cynic. Well, read about Alexander and the naked Indian philosophers; https://bit.ly/2LAPqkr

    On the other hand, I’ve heard stories of mothers from the subcontinent telling their children that, if they don’t eat their vegetables, do
    their homework, go to bed, etc., Iskander the Terrible will come in the
    night and GET them.

    --
    John W. Kennedy
    "The blind rulers of Logres
    Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
    -- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"

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  • From Ed Cryer@21:1/5 to John W Kennedy on Fri Dec 18 18:36:22 2020
    John W Kennedy wrote:
    On 12/18/20 4:23 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    David Amicus wrote:
    On Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 1:20:10 AM UTC-8, Ed Cryer wrote:
    David Amicus <davida...@gmail.com> wrote:
    Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that Alexander did
    like
    destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.

    Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest >>>>> came out of Jerusalem to greet him.

    Other?

    He spread Greek language and culture all over the east.
    Alexandria grew into a great centre of learning, mostly due, I
    suppose, to
    general Ptolemy.

    --
    Ed
    I've thought maybe the Hindu war god SKANDA was named for him.


    I once worked with a Pakistani called Sikander. He heard me talking to
    someone about Alexander The Great, and later told me he was named
    after him.

    In Pakistan they have a myth of a great hero of that name who came
    their way.

    You've probably seen lots of pictures of Alexander talking to Diogenes
    the Cynic. Well, read about Alexander and the naked Indian philosophers;
    https://bit.ly/2LAPqkr

    On the other hand, I’ve heard stories of mothers from the subcontinent telling their children that, if they don’t eat their vegetables, do
    their homework, go to bed, etc., Iskander the Terrible will come in the
    night and GET them.


    You probably misheard for Ivan.

    Ed

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From John W Kennedy@21:1/5 to Ed Cryer on Sat Dec 19 14:44:06 2020
    On 12/18/20 1:36 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    John W Kennedy wrote:
    On 12/18/20 4:23 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    David Amicus wrote:
    On Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 1:20:10 AM UTC-8, Ed Cryer wrote:
    David Amicus <davida...@gmail.com> wrote:
    Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that Alexander did >>>>>> like
    destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.

    Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest >>>>>> came out of Jerusalem to greet him.

    Other?

    He spread Greek language and culture all over the east.
    Alexandria grew into a great centre of learning, mostly due, I
    suppose, to
    general Ptolemy.

    --
    Ed
    I've thought maybe the Hindu war god SKANDA was named for him.


    I once worked with a Pakistani called Sikander. He heard me talking
    to someone about Alexander The Great, and later told me he was named
    after him.

    In Pakistan they have a myth of a great hero of that name who came
    their way.

    You've probably seen lots of pictures of Alexander talking to
    Diogenes the Cynic. Well, read about Alexander and the naked Indian
    philosophers;
    https://bit.ly/2LAPqkr

    On the other hand, I’ve heard stories of mothers from the subcontinent
    telling their children that, if they don’t eat their vegetables, do
    their homework, go to bed, etc., Iskander the Terrible will come in
    the night and GET them.


    You probably misheard for Ivan.

    That would be silly. “Ivan the Terrible” is a terrible rendition of Ива́н
    Гро́зный​.


    --
    John W. Kennedy
    "The blind rulers of Logres
    Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
    -- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"

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  • From Ed Cryer@21:1/5 to David Amicus on Sat Dec 19 21:54:47 2020
    David Amicus <davidamicus22@gmail.com> wrote:
    Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that Alexander did like destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.

    Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest
    came out of Jerusalem to greet him.

    Other?


    There’s something about Alexander that always comes up in ancient and
    modern accounts. I particularly liked Mary Renault’s ‘’The Nature of Alexander”. And that’s what we call “charisma”. He led from the front; always in the front rank, be it on a horse or first over the walls of a
    city. And he won, time after time, against great odds.
    Those rough Macedonians followed him for 10 years before wanting to go home again.
    And he appears to have regarded himself as divine; son of Zeus, like
    Achilles reborn.
    A kind of gay icon (very modern interpretation, I know, but just look at
    all the statues with the long blond hair and the head tilted).
    Pericles, Caesar, Napoleon all had a charisma, but A had a divine charisma.

    He must have regarded himself as unbeatable; right at the top of humanity. Educated by Greece’s greatest philosopher, never lost a battle, avenged historical defeats, got to the ends of the earth and complained that there weren’t enough worlds to conquer.

    Charisma. A winner supreme. Had he been a Roman emperor they would have
    awarded him “divus divus divus ....” post mortem.

    --
    Ed

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  • From Ed Cryer@21:1/5 to John W Kennedy on Sat Dec 19 21:51:16 2020
    John W Kennedy <john.w.kennedy@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 12/18/20 1:36 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    John W Kennedy wrote:
    On 12/18/20 4:23 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    David Amicus wrote:
    On Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 1:20:10 AM UTC-8, Ed Cryer wrote: >>>>>> David Amicus <davida...@gmail.com> wrote:
    Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that Alexander did >>>>>>> like
    destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.

    Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest >>>>>>> came out of Jerusalem to greet him.

    Other?

    He spread Greek language and culture all over the east.
    Alexandria grew into a great centre of learning, mostly due, I
    suppose, to
    general Ptolemy.

    --
    Ed
    I've thought maybe the Hindu war god SKANDA was named for him.


    I once worked with a Pakistani called Sikander. He heard me talking
    to someone about Alexander The Great, and later told me he was named
    after him.

    In Pakistan they have a myth of a great hero of that name who came
    their way.

    You've probably seen lots of pictures of Alexander talking to
    Diogenes the Cynic. Well, read about Alexander and the naked Indian
    philosophers;
    https://bit.ly/2LAPqkr

    On the other hand, I’ve heard stories of mothers from the subcontinent >>> telling their children that, if they don’t eat their vegetables, do
    their homework, go to bed, etc., Iskander the Terrible will come in
    the night and GET them.


    You probably misheard for Ivan.

    That would be silly. “Ivan the Terrible” is a terrible rendition of Ива́н
    Гро́зный​.



    Don’t try and be cute. You’ll end up hanging yourself in the noose of language.

    Ива́н = Ivan
    Гро́зный​ = terrible, formidable.

    Ива́н Гро́зный​; Alexander Severus, commonly known as Ivan the Terrible,
    Ivan le Terrible, Ivan der Schreckliche.

    Never Ива́н великий or отличный
    unlike
    Александер отличный

    --
    Ed

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  • From John W Kennedy@21:1/5 to Ed Cryer on Sun Dec 20 14:31:50 2020
    On 12/19/20 4:51 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    John W Kennedy <john.w.kennedy@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 12/18/20 1:36 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    John W Kennedy wrote:
    On 12/18/20 4:23 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    David Amicus wrote:
    On Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 1:20:10 AM UTC-8, Ed Cryer wrote: >>>>>>> David Amicus <davida...@gmail.com> wrote:
    Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that Alexander did >>>>>>>> like
    destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.

    Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest >>>>>>>> came out of Jerusalem to greet him.

    Other?

    He spread Greek language and culture all over the east.
    Alexandria grew into a great centre of learning, mostly due, I
    suppose, to
    general Ptolemy.

    --
    Ed
    I've thought maybe the Hindu war god SKANDA was named for him.


    I once worked with a Pakistani called Sikander. He heard me talking
    to someone about Alexander The Great, and later told me he was named >>>>> after him.

    In Pakistan they have a myth of a great hero of that name who came
    their way.

    You've probably seen lots of pictures of Alexander talking to
    Diogenes the Cynic. Well, read about Alexander and the naked Indian
    philosophers;
    https://bit.ly/2LAPqkr

    On the other hand, I’ve heard stories of mothers from the subcontinent >>>> telling their children that, if they don’t eat their vegetables, do
    their homework, go to bed, etc., Iskander the Terrible will come in
    the night and GET them.


    You probably misheard for Ivan.

    That would be silly. “Ivan the Terrible” is a terrible rendition of Ива́н
    Гро́зный​.



    Don’t try and be cute. You’ll end up hanging yourself in the noose of language.

    Ива́н = Ivan
    Гро́зный​ = terrible, formidable.

    Ива́н Гро́зный​; Alexander Severus, commonly known as Ivan the Terrible,
    Ivan le Terrible, Ivan der Schreckliche.

    Never Ива́н великий or отличный
    unlike
    Александер отличный

    I did not say that Ivan is not called Гро́зный​, but that “terrible” is a
    bad present-day English translation of Гро́зный​.

    And my point has nothing to do with Ivan at all, but with the statement
    (which I have seen in sober accounts) that the name of “Iskander”, after over two thousand years, is still used as a bogey to Desi children.

    --
    John W. Kennedy
    "The blind rulers of Logres
    Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
    -- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Cryer@21:1/5 to John W Kennedy on Mon Dec 21 12:09:09 2020
    John W Kennedy <john.w.kennedy@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 12/19/20 4:51 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    John W Kennedy <john.w.kennedy@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 12/18/20 1:36 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    John W Kennedy wrote:
    On 12/18/20 4:23 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    David Amicus wrote:
    On Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 1:20:10 AM UTC-8, Ed Cryer wrote: >>>>>>>> David Amicus <davida...@gmail.com> wrote:
    Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that Alexander did >>>>>>>>> like
    destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.

    Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest >>>>>>>>> came out of Jerusalem to greet him.

    Other?

    He spread Greek language and culture all over the east.
    Alexandria grew into a great centre of learning, mostly due, I >>>>>>>> suppose, to
    general Ptolemy.

    --
    Ed
    I've thought maybe the Hindu war god SKANDA was named for him.


    I once worked with a Pakistani called Sikander. He heard me talking >>>>>> to someone about Alexander The Great, and later told me he was named >>>>>> after him.

    In Pakistan they have a myth of a great hero of that name who came >>>>>> their way.

    You've probably seen lots of pictures of Alexander talking to
    Diogenes the Cynic. Well, read about Alexander and the naked Indian >>>>>> philosophers;
    https://bit.ly/2LAPqkr

    On the other hand, I’ve heard stories of mothers from the subcontinent >>>>> telling their children that, if they don’t eat their vegetables, do >>>>> their homework, go to bed, etc., Iskander the Terrible will come in
    the night and GET them.


    You probably misheard for Ivan.

    That would be silly. “Ivan the Terrible” is a terrible rendition of Ива́н
    Гро́зный​.



    Don’t try and be cute. You’ll end up hanging yourself in the noose of
    language.

    Ива́н = Ivan
    Гро́зный​ = terrible, formidable.

    Ива́н Гро́зный​; Alexander Severus, commonly known as Ivan the Terrible,
    Ivan le Terrible, Ivan der Schreckliche.

    Never Ива́н великий or отличный
    unlike
    Александер отличный

    I did not say that Ivan is not called Гро́зный​, but that “terrible” is a
    bad present-day English translation of Гро́зный​.

    And my point has nothing to do with Ivan at all, but with the statement (which I have seen in sober accounts) that the name of “Iskander”, after over two thousand years, is still used as a bogey to Desi children.


    “Terrible” has suffered a pretty large meaning shift since it was first used of Ivan. How about “Scary Ivan”?

    Is your Iskander actually Alexander? What are Desi children?

    --
    Ed

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From John W Kennedy@21:1/5 to Ed Cryer on Mon Dec 21 15:39:41 2020
    On 12/21/20 7:09 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    John W Kennedy <john.w.kennedy@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 12/19/20 4:51 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    John W Kennedy <john.w.kennedy@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 12/18/20 1:36 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    John W Kennedy wrote:
    On 12/18/20 4:23 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    David Amicus wrote:
    On Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 1:20:10 AM UTC-8, Ed Cryer wrote: >>>>>>>>> David Amicus <davida...@gmail.com> wrote:
    Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that Alexander did >>>>>>>>>> like
    destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.

    Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High Priest >>>>>>>>>> came out of Jerusalem to greet him.

    Other?

    He spread Greek language and culture all over the east.
    Alexandria grew into a great centre of learning, mostly due, I >>>>>>>>> suppose, to
    general Ptolemy.

    --
    Ed
    I've thought maybe the Hindu war god SKANDA was named for him. >>>>>>>>

    I once worked with a Pakistani called Sikander. He heard me talking >>>>>>> to someone about Alexander The Great, and later told me he was named >>>>>>> after him.

    In Pakistan they have a myth of a great hero of that name who came >>>>>>> their way.

    You've probably seen lots of pictures of Alexander talking to
    Diogenes the Cynic. Well, read about Alexander and the naked Indian >>>>>>> philosophers;
    https://bit.ly/2LAPqkr

    On the other hand, I’ve heard stories of mothers from the subcontinent >>>>>> telling their children that, if they don’t eat their vegetables, do >>>>>> their homework, go to bed, etc., Iskander the Terrible will come in >>>>>> the night and GET them.


    You probably misheard for Ivan.

    That would be silly. “Ivan the Terrible” is a terrible rendition of Ива́н
    Гро́зный​.



    Don’t try and be cute. You’ll end up hanging yourself in the noose of >>> language.

    Ива́н = Ivan
    Гро́зный​ = terrible, formidable.

    Ива́н Гро́зный​; Alexander Severus, commonly known as Ivan the Terrible,
    Ivan le Terrible, Ivan der Schreckliche.

    Never Ива́н великий or отличный
    unlike
    Александер отличный

    I did not say that Ivan is not called Гро́зный​, but that “terrible” is a
    bad present-day English translation of Гро́зный​.

    And my point has nothing to do with Ivan at all, but with the statement
    (which I have seen in sober accounts) that the name of “Iskander”, after >> over two thousand years, is still used as a bogey to Desi children.


    “Terrible” has suffered a pretty large meaning shift since it was first used of Ivan. How about “Scary Ivan”?

    “Awesome” seems to be the usual.

    Is your Iskander actually Alexander? What are Desi children?

    I am not a scholar of Indian folklore, but this is what I have been told.

    In Hindi, and in Indian English, “Desi” means “local”. In English outside of India, it means “of Indian-subcontinent origin”. I don’t know about other locations, but in New Jersey, where there are several
    south-Asian colonies, the word is common, used to avoid the difficulties
    that arise with “Indian” and “Pakistani”.

    --
    John W. Kennedy
    "The blind rulers of Logres
    Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
    -- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Cryer@21:1/5 to John W Kennedy on Tue Dec 22 12:36:06 2020
    John W Kennedy wrote:
    On 12/21/20 7:09 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    John W Kennedy <john.w.kennedy@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 12/19/20 4:51 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    John W Kennedy <john.w.kennedy@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 12/18/20 1:36 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    John W Kennedy wrote:
    On 12/18/20 4:23 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    David Amicus wrote:
    On Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 1:20:10 AM UTC-8, Ed Cryer >>>>>>>>> wrote:
    David Amicus <davida...@gmail.com> wrote:
    Awhile back we discussed some of the bad things that
    Alexander did
    like
    destroying Thebes; I can't remember what else.

    Let's talk about the good things. He was pro Jewish. The High >>>>>>>>>>> Priest
    came out of Jerusalem to greet him.

    Other?

    He spread Greek language and culture all over the east.
    Alexandria grew into a great centre of learning, mostly due, I >>>>>>>>>> suppose, to
    general Ptolemy.

    --
    Ed
    I've thought maybe the Hindu war god SKANDA was named for him. >>>>>>>>>

    I once worked with a Pakistani called Sikander. He heard me talking >>>>>>>> to someone about Alexander The Great, and later told me he was >>>>>>>> named
    after him.

    In Pakistan they have a myth of a great hero of that name who came >>>>>>>> their way.

    You've probably seen lots of pictures of Alexander talking to
    Diogenes the Cynic. Well, read about Alexander and the naked Indian >>>>>>>> philosophers;
    https://bit.ly/2LAPqkr

    On the other hand, I’ve heard stories of mothers from the
    subcontinent
    telling their children that, if they don’t eat their vegetables, do >>>>>>> their homework, go to bed, etc., Iskander the Terrible will come in >>>>>>> the night and GET them.


    You probably misheard for Ivan.

    That would be silly. “Ivan the Terrible” is a terrible rendition of >>>>> Ива́н
    Гро́зный​.



    Don’t try and be cute. You’ll end up hanging yourself in the noose of >>>> language.

    Ива́н = Ivan
    Гро́зный​ = terrible, formidable.

    Ива́н Гро́зный​; Alexander Severus, commonly known as Ivan the Terrible,
    Ivan le Terrible, Ivan der Schreckliche.

    Never Ива́н великий or отличный
    unlike
    Александер отличный

    I did not say that Ivan is not called Гро́зный​, but that “terrible” is a
    bad present-day English translation of Гро́зный​.

    And my point has nothing to do with Ivan at all, but with the statement
    (which I have seen in sober accounts) that the name of “Iskander”, after
    over two thousand years, is still used as a bogey to Desi children.


    “Terrible” has suffered a pretty large meaning shift since it was first >> used of Ivan. How about “Scary Ivan”?

    “Awesome” seems to be the usual.

    Is your Iskander actually Alexander? What are Desi children?

    I am not a scholar of Indian folklore, but this is what I have been told.

    In Hindi, and in Indian English, “Desi” means “local”. In English outside of India, it means “of Indian-subcontinent origin”. I don’t know
    about other locations, but in New Jersey, where there are several
    south-Asian colonies, the word is common, used to avoid the difficulties
    that arise with “Indian” and “Pakistani”.


    It's probably this new Russian missile;
    https://bit.ly/2LOK70T

    Ed

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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