Many years ago, I heard it on a private lp and was surprised at the portamenti sounds in the prelude. I was reminded of the 1928 "Aida" prelude conducted by Sabajno.

I recently heard on cd the 1938 Bodanzky "Tristan..." prelude and felt that the portamenti had been 'cleaned up'.

Is my memory playing tricks on me concerning the the 1935 prelude?

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"Cleaned up" how, exactly? If you mean that it's somehow been eliminated, even partially, it's hard to imagine how any amount of remastering or even editing could achieve that.

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On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 6:20:25 AM UTC-4, Bert Coules wrote:

"Cleaned up" how, exactly? If you mean that it's somehow been eliminated, even partially, it's hard to imagine how any amount of remastering or even editing could achieve that.

What the hell are "portamenti sounds in the prelude"?? if the orchestra is playing with portamenti they are playing with portamenti!!! thay can't be cleaned up or fixed unless the music is replaced with another version. Maybe you would be better off if
you go back to just posting references to decades old postings.

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On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 12:20:25 AM UTC-10, Bert Coules wrote:

"Cleaned up" how, exactly? If you mean that it's somehow been eliminated, even partially, it's hard to imagine how any amount of remastering or even editing could achieve that.

What I meant was was he told that that portamenti sound sounded old-fashioned and so he began toning it down?

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On Sunday, 8 September 2019 10:19:12 UTC+1, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:

Many years ago, I heard it on a private lp and was surprised at the portamenti sounds in the prelude. I was reminded of the 1928 "Aida" prelude conducted by Sabajno.

I recently heard on cd the 1938 Bodanzky "Tristan..." prelude and felt that the portamenti had been 'cleaned up'.

Is my memory playing tricks on me concerning the the 1935 prelude?

Since portamento is a way of playing, rather than a feature of recording, I suspect that it was present in both, but for some reason it seemed more obvious on the private lp.

It was very much a feature of orchestral playing just after the war; I couldn't say when it first came into fashion, but I have heard it in a number of period recordings. I remember the now--alas!--defunct New Queen's Hall Orchestra, which made a feature
of playing composers such as Vaughan Williams as they would originally have been played. As well as a softer string sound achieved (I believe) with gut strings, they put in portamento as a standard feature of RVW's style. I found it very revealing as an
indicator of the sound the composer intended. I wonder if it was used more or less when Wagner was actually writing?

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On Sunday, 8 September 2019 10:19:12 UTC+1, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:

Many years ago, I heard it on a private lp and was surprised at the portamenti sounds in the prelude. I was reminded of the 1928 "Aida" prelude conducted by Sabajno.

I recently heard on cd the 1938 Bodanzky "Tristan..." prelude and felt that the portamenti had been 'cleaned up'.

Is my memory playing tricks on me concerning the the 1935 prelude?

Since portamento is a style of playing, rather than a feature of recording, I suspect that it was present in both, but for some reason it seemed more obvious on the private lp.

It was very much a feature of orchestral playing just after the war; I couldn't say when it first came into fashion, but I have heard it on several period recordings. I remember the now--alas!--defunct New Queen's Hall Orchestra, which made a feature of
playing composers such as Vaughan Williams as they would originally have been played. As well as a softer string sound achieved (I believe) with gut strings, they put in portamento where indicated. I found it very revealing as an indicator of the sound
the composer intended. I wonder if it was used more or less when Wagner was actually writing?

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On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 12:20:25 AM UTC-10, Bert Coules wrote:

"Cleaned up" how, exactly? If you mean that it's somehow been eliminated, even partially, it's hard to imagine how any amount of remastering or even editing could achieve that.

But I thought that one of the 'advantages' of digital recording is that engineers have an easier time 'improving' the sound:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.music.classical.recordings/gLoZrrCwsOE

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On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 12:20:25 AM UTC-10, Bert Coules wrote:

"Cleaned up" how, exactly? If you mean that it's somehow been eliminated, even partially, it's hard to imagine how any amount of remastering or even editing could achieve that.

But I thought that one of the 'advantages' of digital recording is that engineers have an easier time 'improving' the sound:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.music.classical.recordings/gBNNpUn9DY8

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On Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at 1:36:17 AM UTC-4, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 12:20:25 AM UTC-10, Bert Coules wrote:

"Cleaned up" how, exactly? If you mean that it's somehow been eliminated, even partially, it's hard to imagine how any amount of remastering or even editing could achieve that.

But I thought that one of the 'advantages' of digital recording is that engineers have an easier time 'improving' the sound:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.music.classical.recordings/gLoZrrCwsOE

Those performances were not digitally recorded.

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On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 2:19:12 AM UTC-7, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:

Many years ago, I heard it on a private lp and was surprised at the portamenti sounds in the prelude. I was reminded of the 1928 "Aida" prelude conducted by Sabajno.

I recently heard on cd the 1938 Bodanzky "Tristan..." prelude and felt that the portamenti had been 'cleaned up'.

Is my memory playing tricks on me concerning the the 1935 prelude?

Like Bert, I believe eliminating portamento from a recording would be difficult, even with modern digital editing, but more importantly: Why would anyone do it? Portamento is an integral part of a performance, not some recording artifact that gets in the
way of the music. Eliminating it would be irresponsible.

Then again, people do odd things to recordings. I recently listened to a piano performance on YouTube that the uploader had pitch-adjusted to C=256Hz. I've also heard midis of Wagner's music that were converted to just temperament. Given how many bees
and bonnets there are in the world, I suppose it's possible that someone would go around and remove the portamento from old recordings, but I don't know why they would.

REP

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On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 2:19:12 AM UTC-7, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:

Many years ago, I heard it on a private lp and was surprised at the portamenti sounds in the prelude. I was reminded of the 1928 "Aida" prelude conducted by Sabajno.

I recently heard on cd the 1938 Bodanzky "Tristan..." prelude and felt that the portamenti had been 'cleaned up'.

Is my memory playing tricks on me concerning the the 1935 prelude?

By the way, here is a recent Bodanzky cd:

https://www.audaud.com/artur-bodanzky-conducts-works-by-wagner-mozart-berlioz-strauss-offenbach-berlin-state-opera-orchestra-pristine-audio/

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