XPost: comp.mobile.ipad, misc.phone.mobile.iphone

On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 18:30:34 -0400, nospam wrote:

printing to pdf is not a feature of itunes.

it's a feature of macos itself and applies to *any* app that can print.

Thank you for clarifying that the print-to-PDF is not coming directly out
of iTunes, but from the OS.

Many apps have a print-to-PDF feature (e.g., MS Office), while the three desktop-based operating systems (linux, windows, and Mac) have native PDF-printing engines.

The key question is whether that PDF is essentially text or images.

no it isn't.

how in the world could a *list* of apps be images?? images of what?
pngs of the icons but no text anywhere?

I thank you for suggesting we use iTunes to output the list of apps
installed on iOS devices to a PDF file, and then to save that PDF file as
text.

I have a *lot* of experience decomposing PDF files into their text
components.

It's a topic which has been discussed very many times on the comp.text.pdf Usenet newsgroup.

Sometimes it's easy.
Sometimes it's not easy.

When it's easy, the output you want is saved in the text results.
When it's not easy, the output is saved as images.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.mobile.ipad, misc.phone.mobile.iphone

In article <nms7c3$mha$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

printing to pdf is not a feature of itunes.

it's a feature of macos itself and applies to *any* app that can print.

Thank you for clarifying that the print-to-PDF is not coming directly out
of iTunes, but from the OS.

Many apps have a print-to-PDF feature (e.g., MS Office), while the three desktop-based operating systems (linux, windows, and Mac) have native PDF-printing engines.

only one has a native pdf engine, and that's macos.

the entire mac graphics model is based on pdf. it's as native as plain
text or a bitmap.

The key question is whether that PDF is essentially text or images.

no it isn't.

how in the world could a *list* of apps be images?? images of what?
pngs of the icons but no text anywhere?

I thank you for suggesting we use iTunes to output the list of apps
installed on iOS devices to a PDF file, and then to save that PDF file as text.

I have a *lot* of experience decomposing PDF files into their text components.

It's a topic which has been discussed very many times on the comp.text.pdf Usenet newsgroup.

Sometimes it's easy.
Sometimes it's not easy.

When it's easy, the output you want is saved in the text results.
When it's not easy, the output is saved as images.

all of which is completely irrelevant.

you also completely avoided the question.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.mobile.ipad, misc.phone.mobile.iphone

On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 18:30:40 -0400, nospam wrote:

c. Does the iTunes output to PDF contain "text" or "images"?

Text

the real question is what would the images even *be*?

The folks at comp.text.pdf can probably explain this better than I, but
suffice to say when a PDF is created, it can be rasterized bitmaps of
'text' images, or it can contain the actual text.

A simple way to understand the difference is to consider what scanning to
PDF does without OCR. It scans the text to a rasterized bitmap image.

In the visualized document, it *looks* like text; but it's an image.

Some print-to-PDF mechanisms create PDFs as rasterized WYSIWYG images: https://helpx.adobe.com/acrobat/kb/quick-fix-print-pdf-image.html

Besides being WYSIWYG, printing to a rasterized image is often used to
prevent people from doing exactly what we're trying to do, which is to
extract the text output of the PDF document: http://superuser.com/questions/766518/how-to-print-a-flat-pdf-from-a-text-file-in-pdfcreator

The comp.text.pdf folks will be able to explain this better than I.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.mobile.ipad, misc.phone.mobile.iphone

In article <nmsc1i$ra3$4@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

only one has a native pdf engine, and that's macos.

It has been a while, but I think Linux also has a native CUPS-based PDF engine. But I could be wrong.

you are wrong. again.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.mobile.ipad, misc.phone.mobile.iphone

Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 18:30:40 -0400, nospam wrote:

c. Does the iTunes output to PDF contain "text" or "images"?

Text

the real question is what would the images even *be*?

The folks at comp.text.pdf can probably explain this better than I, but suffice to say when a PDF is created, it can be rasterized bitmaps of
'text' images, or it can contain the actual text.

Duh. Anyone who has been around more than a minute knows this basic fact.
And many of us know exactly why and when it happens. What, were you born yesterday or something? And you claim to be an expert who knows more than anyone else here. You're a fucking joke.

The comp.text.pdf folks will be able to explain this better than I.

Just about anyone can.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.mobile.ipad, misc.phone.mobile.iphone

In article <nms979$oa0$3@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

c. Does the iTunes output to PDF contain "text" or "images"?

Text

the real question is what would the images even *be*?

The folks at comp.text.pdf can probably explain this better than I, but suffice to say when a PDF is created, it can be rasterized bitmaps of
'text' images, or it can contain the actual text.

that doesn't answer the question, and actually a pdf can contain a
shitload more than just that.

i didn't ask how a pdf stores images.

i asked what possible images could there be in list of apps?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.mobile.ipad, misc.phone.mobile.iphone

On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 00:49:37 -0400, nospam wrote:

only one has a native pdf engine, and that's macos.

It has been a while, but I think Linux also has a native CUPS-based PDF
engine. But I could be wrong.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.mobile.ipad, misc.phone.mobile.iphone

Aardvarks <aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 00:49:37 -0400, nospam wrote:

only one has a native pdf engine, and that's macos.

It has been a while, but I think Linux also has a native CUPS-based PDF engine. But I could be wrong.

LOL... Dream on. You're in over your head.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.mobile.ipad, misc.phone.mobile.iphone

On 22 Jul 2016 06:06:24 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

You're a fucking joke.

:)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.mobile.ipad, misc.phone.mobile.iphone

On 22 Jul 2016 06:10:41 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

LOL... Dream on. You're in over your head.

:)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.mobile.ipad, misc.phone.mobile.iphone

In article <dvdrn0Fi79jU1@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

only one has a native pdf engine, and that's macos.

It has been a while, but I think Linux also has a native CUPS-based PDF engine. But I could be wrong.

LOL... Dream on. You're in over your head.

that's no way to talk about a harvard grad :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.mobile.ipad, misc.phone.mobile.iphone

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

In article <dvdrn0Fi79jU1@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

only one has a native pdf engine, and that's macos.

It has been a while, but I think Linux also has a native CUPS-based PDF
engine. But I could be wrong.

LOL... Dream on. You're in over your head.

that's no way to talk about a harvard grad :)

Uh huh. I find that highly unlikely.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.mobile.ipad, misc.phone.mobile.iphone

Am 22.07.2016 um 07:47 schrieb Aardvarks:

On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 00:49:37 -0400, nospam wrote:

only one has a native pdf engine, and that's macos.

It has been a while, but I think Linux also has a native CUPS-based PDF engine. But I could be wrong.

You are wrong, resp. you're talking about something different.

OS X: The internal graphics engine is basically based on PDF (a subset
of the PDF 1.2 spec). Pre-OS X the internal graphics engine was even
based on Disply PostScript, with PostScript being something like the 'intellectual father' of the PDF language (both were developed by the
same company, but with quite some years in between).

Linux: The internal graphics engine uses whatever kind of data
structures, IIRC that used to be the X Server engine, now already (or
about to be) replaced by some newer engine. Not PS or PDF anyways. The
print engine (CUPS) internally uses PostScript (not PDF) as the common
basis from which to generate the device specific output formats/commands
- but that's an altogether different approach than the one on the Mac.

Michael

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.mobile.ipad, misc.phone.mobile.iphone

In message <220720160216323062%nospam@nospam.invalid>
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

In article <dvdrn0Fi79jU1@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

only one has a native pdf engine, and that's macos.

It has been a while, but I think Linux also has a native CUPS-based PDF
engine. But I could be wrong.

LOL... Dream on. You're in over your head.

that's no way to talk about a harvard grad :)

This Harvard.

<http://www.cusd50.org>

--
*** AgentSmith sets mode: +m

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.mobile.ipad, misc.phone.mobile.iphone

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 07/22/2016 06:52 AM, nospam wrote:

In article <nmsc1i$ra3$4@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

only one has a native pdf engine, and that's macos.

It has been a while, but I think Linux also has a native
CUPS-based PDF engine. But I could be wrong.

you are wrong. again.

Actually Aardvarks is right: there is a CUPS print-to-PDF driver. Not specifically native to Linux, though; native to CUPS, which is
cross-platform.

///Peter


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2

iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJXq5j5AAoJEHt9ZfbX6inQgFEH/3H1AEImRdpZRmnlAfQo+UVr nWm13mYHNoKrqznoJafrDA3+14ha8f0eoEC4vaaNfUDOG9UwP2LrS8SP5Ogg3E7p 4xEraTcw3r2KfWNSodD4VlufMJm7etcgmlU7zS57QuepGmJ2Kk05hKzS9psc8j+L Uko+XwxhYVdEMXHDKwFsaqHAFmOBwOTdNcZ7G0NfvXEhCkR+q5+gV/X6YhEUwySW mLiMHuFmg8bewPaW6SBlge1cg7G4MhBAoUhO7BQk7gu9f9COdKSM8eBiB29R1Je3 hoitgr+3PH3cI2ivmaVZ66Ye7HrY0baFus5UVrvqz4c3PvaDgp/IxOL6i8JoAGQ=
=NoJX
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.mobile.ipad, misc.phone.mobile.iphone

In article <e11jnpF6iqtU1@mid.individual.net>, Peter Flynn
<peter@silmaril.ie> wrote:

only one has a native pdf engine, and that's macos.

It has been a while, but I think Linux also has a native
CUPS-based PDF engine. But I could be wrong.

you are wrong. again.

Actually Aardvarks is right: there is a CUPS print-to-PDF driver. Not specifically native to Linux, though; native to CUPS, which is cross-platform.

if it's not native to linux then it has to be installed, which means
he's wrong, as are you.

on macos, there's nothing to install. pdf is a native format.

on linux, pdf is *not* a native format.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.mobile.ipad, misc.phone.mobile.iphone

In message <e11jnpF6iqtU1@mid.individual.net>
Peter Flynn <peter@silmaril.ie> wrote:

On 07/22/2016 06:52 AM, nospam wrote:

In article <nmsc1i$ra3$4@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aardvarks@a.b.c.com> wrote:

only one has a native pdf engine, and that's macos.

It has been a while, but I think Linux also has a native
CUPS-based PDF engine. But I could be wrong.

you are wrong. again.

Actually Aardvarks is right: there is a CUPS print-to-PDF driver. Not specifically native to Linux, though; native to CUPS, which is cross-platform.

Being able to install PDF tools an CUPS under linux doesn't make them
native.

PDF is an integral part of OS X and Quartz uses PDF internally, so PDF
is *the* native format for displaying, and outputting to PDF on OS X is trivial.

So, nothing like linux.

--
CURSIVE WRITING DOES NOT MEAN WHAT I THINK IT DOES Bart chalkboard Ep.
2F11

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.mobile.ipad, misc.phone.mobile.iphone

On 10/08/16 22:18, nospam wrote:

In article <e11jnpF6iqtU1@mid.individual.net>, Peter Flynn <peter@silmaril.ie> wrote:

only one has a native pdf engine, and that's macos.

It has been a while, but I think Linux also has a native
CUPS-based PDF engine. But I could be wrong.

you are wrong. again.

Actually Aardvarks is right: there is a CUPS print-to-PDF driver. Not
specifically native to Linux, though; native to CUPS, which is
cross-platform.

if it's not native to linux then it has to be installed, which means
he's wrong, as are you.

If by "native" you mean "installed by default during a fresh install of
the OS" then that would be correct.

But Print-to-PDF (file) *is* installed by default with CUPS, on Linux as elsewhere. It's right there in my Print menu, without me having to
install anything.

on macos, there's nothing to install. pdf is a native format.
on linux, pdf is *not* a native format.

That much is correct at least.

AFAIK CUPS is now installed by default on Linux; it used to be that it
was only installed when it found a connected printer, which was silly.

P

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.mobile.ipad, misc.phone.mobile.iphone

On 2016-08-14, Peter Flynn <peter@silmaril.ie> wrote:

On 10/08/16 22:18, nospam wrote:

In article <e11jnpF6iqtU1@mid.individual.net>, Peter Flynn
<peter@silmaril.ie> wrote:

only one has a native pdf engine, and that's macos.

It has been a while, but I think Linux also has a native
CUPS-based PDF engine. But I could be wrong.

you are wrong. again.

Actually Aardvarks is right: there is a CUPS print-to-PDF driver. Not
specifically native to Linux, though; native to CUPS, which is
cross-platform.

if it's not native to linux then it has to be installed, which means
he's wrong, as are you.

If by "native" you mean "installed by default during a fresh install of
the OS" then that would be correct.

What nospam is informing the ignorant Aardvarks troll about is the fact
that PDF is an integral part of Quartz, the OS X display service (so of *course* it's included in every installation). In this context, "native"
means the entire display system is built upon it, as this old article
from Ars Technica describes:

<http://arstechnica.com/apple/2000/01/macos-x-gui/4/>

On Linux and Windows, PDF is *much* more of an afterthought. I believe
that is the point.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)