• Wyse WY85 power/video pinout

    From goddardm@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun Apr 30 09:54:09 2017
    Does anyone have a working Wyse WY85 that they'd be willing to open up and measure some voltages on the main PCB? Or just have a copy of the maintenance manual they could forward me? The 12-pin connector is easy to access, just remove 2 small screws and
    pull the PCB out about 2 inches. I'm trying to determine if the pinout is the same as the similar WY50, which uses the same form factor and 12 pin connector.

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  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to goddardm@gmail.com on Sun Apr 30 14:38:56 2017
    In article <84d2bb1f-9a41-4423-a5c5-23c3975cba87@googlegroups.com>,
    <goddardm@gmail.com> wrote:
    Does anyone have a working Wyse WY85 that they'd be willing to open up and = >measure some voltages on the main PCB? Or just have a copy of the maintenan= >ce manual they could forward me? The 12-pin connector is easy to access, ju= >st remove 2 small screws and pull the PCB out about 2 inches. I'm trying to=
    determine if the pinout is the same as the similar WY50, which uses the sa=
    me form factor and 12 pin connector.

    So, let me guess. The power supply on your WY85 has failed, and you want
    to know if you can pull one out of a WY50 to replace it?
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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  • From Mitch Goddard@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Sun Apr 30 15:13:00 2017
    On Sunday, April 30, 2017 at 2:38:57 PM UTC-4, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    In article <84d2bb1f-9a41-4423-a5c5-23c3975cba87@googlegroups.com>,
    <goddardm@gmail.com> wrote:
    Does anyone have a working Wyse WY85 that they'd be willing to open up and = >measure some voltages on the main PCB? Or just have a copy of the maintenan= >ce manual they could forward me? The 12-pin connector is easy to access, ju= >st remove 2 small screws and pull the PCB out about 2 inches. I'm trying to=
    determine if the pinout is the same as the similar WY50, which uses the sa=
    me form factor and 12 pin connector.

    So, let me guess. The power supply on your WY85 has failed, and you want
    to know if you can pull one out of a WY50 to replace it?
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


    Not quite, but you've got the right idea. I have a WY50 but it doesn't emulate VT220 (or even VT100) so isn't well supported in linux even with terminal type set up correctly. I was hoping I could swap the PCB with one from a WY85 (there's a few on eBay
    right now), which does properly emulate vt220.

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  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to goddardm@gmail.com on Sun Apr 30 18:48:14 2017
    Mitch Goddard <goddardm@gmail.com> wrote:

    Not quite, but you've got the right idea. I have a WY50 but it doesn't emul= >ate VT220 (or even VT100) so isn't well supported in linux even with termin= >al type set up correctly. I was hoping I could swap the PCB with one from a=
    WY85 (there's a few on eBay right now), which does properly emulate vt220.

    Huh? A terminal doesn't even need to be a little bit ANSI to be perfectly
    well supported under unix. Is there no wy50 termcap entry? If not, I can probably dig one up.

    Direct termcap support through lcurses makes Unix much better about supporting any sort of weird terminal than other typical operating systems.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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  • From Mitch Goddard@21:1/5 to All on Sun Apr 30 16:23:25 2017
    True, I should clarify. Certain applications I want to use with it aren't entirely compatible, if at all

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  • From Kaz Kylheku@21:1/5 to Mitch Goddard on Mon May 1 01:34:36 2017
    On 2017-04-30, Mitch Goddard <goddardm@gmail.com> wrote:
    True, I should clarify. Certain applications I want to use with it
    aren't entirely compatible, if at all

    Programs that crank out hard-coded VT100/ANSI codes can be run under
    GNU screen. GNU screen intercepts escape sequences from applications
    and outputs its own escape sequences to control the screen; it will
    effectively translate to Wyse 50 for you.

    I used a Wyse 50 circa 1995. I was "in between computers"; I just had
    the Wyse, a 14.4 kbps modem and a land line. With that, I did contract
    work, remotely logging in to Linux and Unix boxes. It worked great.

    Around that time I finally got a machine (dual processor Pentium 100,
    running a Linux 1.3.x kernel: bleeding edge SMP). I hooked up the
    Wyse 50 to that and me and a friend were able to play that curses
    multi-player networked game Hunt. Again, the Wyse worked fine.

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  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to 686-678-9105@kylheku.com on Mon May 1 09:49:37 2017
    Kaz Kylheku <686-678-9105@kylheku.com> wrote:
    On 2017-04-30, Mitch Goddard <goddardm@gmail.com> wrote:
    True, I should clarify. Certain applications I want to use with it
    aren't entirely compatible, if at all

    Programs that crank out hard-coded VT100/ANSI codes can be run under
    GNU screen. GNU screen intercepts escape sequences from applications
    and outputs its own escape sequences to control the screen; it will >effectively translate to Wyse 50 for you.

    Programs that incorporate hardcoded terminal control sequences are BROKEN. There was an excuse for that back in the 1970s, but in the Unix world we
    got curses in V/32 and unless your code is older than that, anyone deliberately bypassing curses is NOT COMPETENT and should not be allowed near a computer.

    Broken code needs to be FIXED, not worked around with protocol converters. --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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  • From Kaz Kylheku@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Mon May 1 15:33:46 2017
    On 2017-05-01, Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
    Kaz Kylheku <686-678-9105@kylheku.com> wrote:
    On 2017-04-30, Mitch Goddard <goddardm@gmail.com> wrote:
    True, I should clarify. Certain applications I want to use with it
    aren't entirely compatible, if at all

    Programs that crank out hard-coded VT100/ANSI codes can be run under
    GNU screen. GNU screen intercepts escape sequences from applications
    and outputs its own escape sequences to control the screen; it will >>effectively translate to Wyse 50 for you.

    Programs that incorporate hardcoded terminal control sequences are BROKEN.

    Nope; their requirements just don't conform to your requirements.

    Today, there isn't much of a requirement for terminal emulation other than ANSI/VT100. It's coming from hobbyists playing with salvaged old junk
    that have the WYSE 50's and what have you.

    ANSI, by the way: hey, that's a standard!

    Code that puts out ANSI is conforming to a major standard; just not to
    your requirements to someone's requirement for supporting additional nonstandard terminal control languages.

    We could argue that a terminal emulator which doesn't support ANSI is neglecting to conform to a standard. That would matter if the emulator
    were important and in wide use, with large numbers of people having
    no practical alternative.

    There was an excuse for that back in the 1970s, but in the Unix world we
    got curses in V/32 and unless your code is older than that, anyone deliberately
    bypassing curses is NOT COMPETENT and should not be allowed near a computer.

    Bypassing curses reduces the dependency on a big, complicated library.

    That keeps the code much more portable.

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  • From Mitch Goddard@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 2 12:49:24 2017
    Maybe someone can help me with some of the issues I'm having with the WY50 then, since it doesn't seem that I'll be able to "upgrade" it to a WY85 like I thought. Other than a few specific ncurses-based applications not displaying properly, I also can't
    view man pages. The screen doesn't clear, the cursor jumps to the middle of the screen, and the content is scrolled by on that single line. When using screen or tmux they're displayed just fine. Also, when working in bash, the arrow keys don't seem to
    function as they're supposed to, but within applications they do, and again when using screen or tmux I can use the arrow keys to scroll through command history and move the cursor, whereas in a normal login shell I cannot.

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  • From Mitch Goddard@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 2 13:28:13 2017
    I think there might be some confusion. The terminal works well, it's only when trying to view man pages that the content isn't displayed correctly.

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  • From Richard@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 2 20:50:08 2017
    [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]

    Mitch Goddard <goddardm@gmail.com> spake the secret code <17dc794a-5d51-4e74-aac1-5357b04309ba@googlegroups.com> thusly:

    I think there might be some confusion. The terminal works well, it's
    only when trying to view man pages that the content isn't displayed >correctly.

    Then it sounds like your termcap entry is buggy. Post the termcap
    entry you're using and we'll see what's what.
    --
    "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
    The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals-wiki.org>
    The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
    Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

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  • From Richard@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 2 20:25:05 2017
    [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]

    Mitch Goddard <goddardm@gmail.com> spake the secret code <bec6553f-dab5-4edb-996a-5abda79aad80@googlegroups.com> thusly:

    Maybe someone can help me with some of the issues I'm having with the
    WY50 then, since it doesn't seem that I'll be able to "upgrade" it to a
    WY85 like I thought.

    *********************************************************************
    WARNING: working with the high voltage electronics in a CRT device is potentially dangerous and you can injure yourslef up to and including
    death. If you are unexperienced in working with electronics, you may
    want to consider paying a professional to perform any changes. *********************************************************************

    Given that the WY-50 is a ~35 year old piece of hardware, your best
    bet is to replace all the aging capacitors in the hardware and then
    retest. You shouldn't need to replace the ceramic disc capacitors,
    just the electrolytic ones.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceramic_capacitor> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolytic_capacitor>

    The electrolyte used in the capacitors dries out over time and changes
    its electrical properties so that it doesn't relaly function as a
    proper capacitor anymore. This messes up the video refresh circuitry
    and the power supply circuitry.

    This sort of refurbishing doesn't require schematics or knowledge of
    the circuitry. You just have to be able to read the values on the
    existing capacitors so that you replace them with proper value new
    capacitors.
    --
    "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
    The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals-wiki.org>
    The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
    Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

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  • From William Pechter@21:1/5 to goddardm@gmail.com on Tue May 2 21:25:47 2017
    In article <17dc794a-5d51-4e74-aac1-5357b04309ba@googlegroups.com>,
    Mitch Goddard <goddardm@gmail.com> wrote:
    I think there might be some confusion. The terminal works well, it's
    only when trying to view man pages that the content isn't displayed >correctly.

    What you need to do is to take the termcap entries for a Wyse 50 and
    make them into terminfo or install the full linux terminfo

    BSD Termcap information for Wyse50 terminalS


    # w: WYSE
    #
    # The wy{30,50,75,85} entries are recommended by
    # Wyse Technology
    # 3571 North First Street
    # San Jose, CA 95134
    # Entries for the wy60 and wy99 are only based on Wyse's recommendations.
    #
    # Advice on the Wyse 30 and 50 standout mode glitch:
    # (from steve@omni.com or ...pyramid!koosh!steve)
    #
    # These terminals support a "PROTECT" sequence on/off that has no
    # standout-glitch (xmc), while the regular "attribute" stuff enabled
    # with <ESC>G'some-character' gives a 1-space glitch.
    #
    # All but the very old revision firmware on both terminals support a
    # visible PROTECT attribute that's selectable by the ol' SETUP menu.
    # (The older rev. terminals do support PROTECT attribute but only
    # have the options REGULAR and DIM)
    #
    # Get into your terminal's SETUP menu, and down-key to the 5'th
    # menu (on a wyse 30; I think 3'rd or 4'th on a wyse 50) and
    # right-key over to the PROTECT item.
    #
    # Change PROTECT to REVERSE or REVERSE/DIM, and go over to the next
    # item -- ATTRIBUTE and change it to LINE; then save the changes for
    # power-on. (ATTRIBUTE change isn't necessary but looks a whole lot
    # nicer to the eye when inverting the remainder of a line rather then
    # the rest of the screen!).
    #
    # The next thing to do is change your /usr/lib/something?/terminfo/w/wyse50
    # so that it uses the proper escape sequences to turn on/off the protect
    # sequence rather than the very-ugly \EG4 and \EG0.
    #
    # Change standout to \E), standend to \E(, and glitch to 0, which means
    # changing the so, se, and sg fields to :so=\E):se=\E(:sg#0:
    #


    wy50|wyse50|Wyse 50:\
    :am:bw:hs:mi:xo:bs:pt:\
    :co#80:li#24:sg#1:ug#1:kn#9:\
    :ae=\EG0\EH^C:al=\EE:as=\EG0\EH^B:bt=\EI:cd=20\Ey:\
    :ce=\Et:cl=20\E*:cm=\E=%+ %+ :ct=\E0:dc=1\EW:dl=\ER:\
    :ds=\EF\r:ei=\Er:fs=\r:ho=^^:i1=30\E`\072\E`9:im=\Eq:\
    :ip=1:is=^N^T\E'\E(:k1=^A@\r:k2=^AA\r:k3=^AB\r:\
    :k4=^AC\r:k5=^AD\r:k6=^AE\r:k7=^AF\r:k8=^AG\r:\
    :k9=^AH\r:kb=\b:kd=\n:kh=^^:kl=\b:kr=\f:ku=^K:nd=\f:\
    :se=\EG0:so=\EGt:sr=\Ej:st=\E1:ts=\EF:ue=\EG0:up=^K:\
    :us=\EG8:ve=\E`1:vi=\E`0:\
    :pf=^T:po=^R:\
    :ko=bt,le,do,nd,up,dc,dl,ho,al:
    wy50-vb|wyse50-vb|wyse 50 visual bell:\
    :vb=\E`8\E`\072\E`9:\
    :tc=wy50:
    wy50-w|wyse50-w|wyse 50 132-column:\
    :cm=\Ea%i%dR%dC:co#132:dc=2\EW:i1=\E`;\E`9:\
    :tc=wy50:
    wy50-wvb|wyse50-wvb|wyse 50 132-column visual bell:\
    :cm=\Ea%i%dR%dC:co#132:dc=2\EW:i1=\E`;\E`9:\
    :vb=\E`8\E`;\E`9:\
    :tc=wy50:
    # from John Gillmore hoptoad!gnu@lll-crg.arpa
    wyse-vp|wyse|Wyse 50 in ADDS Viewpoint emulation mode with "enhance" on:\
    :am:do=^J:if=/usr/share/tabset/wyse-adds:\
    :le=^H:bs:li#24:co#80:cm=\EY%+ %+ :cd=\Ek:ce=\EK:nd=^F:\
    :up=^Z:cl=^L:ho=^A:ll=^A^Z:kl=^U:kr=^F:kd=^J:ku=^Z:kh=^A:\
    :pt:so=^N:se=^O:us=^N:ue=^O:dl=\El:al=\EM:im=\Eq:ei=\Er:dc=\EW:\
    :is=\E`\072\E`9^O\Er:rs=\E`\072\E`9^O\Er:
    wyse-vp-nk|Wyse 50 in ADDS Viewpoint enhanced mode with cursor keys gone:\
    :kl@:kr@:kd@:ku@:kh@:tc=wyse-vp:
    wyse925|Wyse-50 emulating tvi925:\
    :xn@:tc=tvi925:

    Information on handling terminfo and tic are here: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Text-Terminal-HOWTO-16.html

    Information on infocmp is here.
    http://linuxcommand.org/man_pages/infocmp1.html

    Eric Raymond maintains the master terminfo source... http://www.catb.org/esr/terminfo/


    Bill

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  • From Kaz Kylheku@21:1/5 to Richard on Wed May 3 02:00:16 2017
    On 2017-05-02, Richard <legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com> wrote:
    Given that the WY-50 is a ~35 year old piece of hardware, your best
    bet is to replace all the aging capacitors in the hardware and then
    retest. You shouldn't need to replace the ceramic disc capacitors,
    just the electrolytic ones.

    Only because the crude beeps made by this audio device are far
    from hi-fi, man.

    Otherwise you like totally need film caps.

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