• Unix Tools

    From Robert Peirce@21:1/5 to All on Sat Mar 13 17:55:38 2021
    I'm still running Mojave. I haven't updated because I have an important
    app that hasn't been converted yet. However, that is coming and it got
    me thinking. With all the changes Apple is making, not only with the OS
    but also the M1 chip, are they still supporting Unix tools? I have an
    awful lot of personal software that relies on these.

    Many years ago AT&T had a Unix for Windows tool set that I used but it
    was never as clean as I would have liked and I didn't really like
    Windows. The main reason I switched to NeXT and then to Apple years ago was,for the GUI and the Unix Tools. Now I really like Apple products
    but the tools are critical.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Percival John Hackworth@21:1/5 to All on Sun Mar 14 06:03:56 2021
    On 13-Mar-2021 at 2:55:38PM PST, "Robert Peirce" <bob@peirce-family.com>
    wrote:

    I'm still running Mojave. I haven't updated because I have an important
    app that hasn't been converted yet. However, that is coming and it got
    me thinking. With all the changes Apple is making, not only with the OS
    but also the M1 chip, are they still supporting Unix tools? I have an
    awful lot of personal software that relies on these.

    Many years ago AT&T had a Unix for Windows tool set that I used but it
    was never as clean as I would have liked and I didn't really like
    Windows. The main reason I switched to NeXT and then to Apple years ago was,for the GUI and the Unix Tools. Now I really like Apple products
    but the tools are critical.

    Install brew and Apple's Xcode. brew is the Mac's missing package (there's
    also port, but brew is more extensive). There are tools galore. And many app developers are making their app updates available through brew.

    --
    DeeDee, don't press that button! DeeDee! NO! Dee...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lewis@21:1/5 to Robert Peirce on Sun Mar 14 09:37:59 2021
    In message <s2jft8$1ugo$1@gioia.aioe.org> Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
    are [Apple] still supporting Unix tools?

    macOS is still build on UNIX, changing that would require an entire
    rewrite of the entire operating system. Since the same OS underpins iOS
    and iPadOS nd tvOS and watchOS, this is exceedingly unlikely to change.

    I am posting this in slrn, compiled on my M1 Mac.

    xcode-select --install

    will install the Xcode command-line tools (you do NOT need to install
    the 12GB Xcode IDE) and then compile and install pretty much any UNIX
    tools you want.

    Things I have compiled other than slrn include vim, ffmpeg, bash, and
    various gnu tools (coreutils, findutils), htop, and various addins to
    zsh.

    --
    You know a thorn can main / But a lover does the same / A gem will
    reflect light / And a Fool will marvel at the sight / A fool such
    as me, /Who sees not the gold, but the beauty of the shine

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jolly Roger@21:1/5 to Robert Peirce on Sun Mar 14 18:11:25 2021
    On 2021-03-13, Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
    I'm still running Mojave. I haven't updated because I have an important
    app that hasn't been converted yet. However, that is coming and it got
    me thinking. With all the changes Apple is making, not only with the OS
    but also the M1 chip, are they still supporting Unix tools? I have an
    awful lot of personal software that relies on these.

    Many years ago AT&T had a Unix for Windows tool set that I used but it
    was never as clean as I would have liked and I didn't really like
    Windows. The main reason I switched to NeXT and then to Apple years ago was,for the GUI and the Unix Tools. Now I really like Apple products
    but the tools are critical.

    macOS is still Unix. : )

    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jolly Roger@21:1/5 to Robert Peirce on Mon Mar 15 22:13:50 2021
    On 2021-03-15, Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
    On 3/14/21 5:37 AM, Lewis wrote:
    In message <s2jft8$1ugo$1@gioia.aioe.org> Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
    will install the Xcode command-line tools (you do NOT need to install
    the 12GB Xcode IDE) and then compile and install pretty much any UNIX
    tools you want.

    All the tools I need came compiled up until now. Has that changed?

    How can anyone know if you don't list at least some of them.

    Like I said, macOS is still Unix. That means a shit ton of tools are
    there.

    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Robert Peirce@21:1/5 to Lewis on Mon Mar 15 18:11:00 2021
    On 3/14/21 5:37 AM, Lewis wrote:
    In message <s2jft8$1ugo$1@gioia.aioe.org> Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
    will install the Xcode command-line tools (you do NOT need to install
    the 12GB Xcode IDE) and then compile and install pretty much any UNIX
    tools you want.

    All the tools I need came compiled up until now. Has that changed?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Niels S. Eliasen@21:1/5 to Jolly Roger on Fri Mar 19 08:24:58 2021
    On 2021-03-15, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
    On 2021-03-15, Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
    On 3/14/21 5:37 AM, Lewis wrote:
    In message <s2jft8$1ugo$1@gioia.aioe.org> Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
    will install the Xcode command-line tools (you do NOT need to install
    the 12GB Xcode IDE) and then compile and install pretty much any UNIX
    tools you want.

    All the tools I need came compiled up until now. Has that changed?

    How can anyone know if you don't list at least some of them.

    Like I said, macOS is still Unix. That means a shit ton of tools are
    there.


    but still missing "sar" and/or "sysstat" .... or is there someone who
    knows how to get it compiled and working (under Big Sur)?


    --
    kind regards/mvh

    Niels S. Eliasen

    Eliasen Consult
    Frederiksberg Have 23
    DK-4180 Sorø
    Tel/Cell: +45 21779590
    mailto:niels@eliasen.co

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lewis@21:1/5 to Niels S. Eliasen on Fri Mar 19 14:41:53 2021
    In message <60545fda$0$674$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Niels S. Eliasen <nse@eliasen.co> wrote:
    On 2021-03-15, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
    On 2021-03-15, Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
    On 3/14/21 5:37 AM, Lewis wrote:
    In message <s2jft8$1ugo$1@gioia.aioe.org> Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
    will install the Xcode command-line tools (you do NOT need to install
    the 12GB Xcode IDE) and then compile and install pretty much any UNIX
    tools you want.

    All the tools I need came compiled up until now. Has that changed?

    How can anyone know if you don't list at least some of them.

    Like I said, macOS is still Unix. That means a shit ton of tools are
    there.


    but still missing "sar" and/or "sysstat"

    Not "Missing" any more than, say, mutt is "missing"

    .... or is there someone who
    knows how to get it compiled and working (under Big Sur)?

    Since I do not know what those tools ARE (I suspect linux-ism and macOS
    is not Linux and I do not run Linux as a general rule) it would be hard
    to guess.

    Perhaps if you know what the tool does then you can find a *BSD based
    tool that does, largely, the same thing?

    --
    NO. I CANNOT BE BIDDEN. I CANNOT BE FORCED. I WILL DO ONLY THAT WHICH
    I KNOW TO BE RIGHT. --Mort

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jolly Roger@21:1/5 to Lewis on Fri Mar 19 16:14:09 2021
    On 2021-03-19, Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:
    In message <60545fda$0$674$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Niels S. Eliasen <nse@eliasen.co> wrote:

    .... or is there someone who knows how to get it compiled and working
    (under Big Sur)?

    Since I do not know what those tools ARE (I suspect linux-ism and
    macOS is not Linux and I do not run Linux as a general rule) it would
    be hard to guess.

    Perhaps if you know what the tool does then you can find a *BSD based
    tool that does, largely, the same thing?

    It's just a system monitoring tool. There are plenty of alternatives
    that work fine in macOS.

    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ant@21:1/5 to Jolly Roger on Fri Mar 19 16:45:38 2021
    Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
    On 2021-03-13, Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
    I'm still running Mojave. I haven't updated because I have an important app that hasn't been converted yet. However, that is coming and it got
    me thinking. With all the changes Apple is making, not only with the OS but also the M1 chip, are they still supporting Unix tools? I have an awful lot of personal software that relies on these.

    Many years ago AT&T had a Unix for Windows tool set that I used but it
    was never as clean as I would have liked and I didn't really like
    Windows. The main reason I switched to NeXT and then to Apple years ago was,for the GUI and the Unix Tools. Now I really like Apple products
    but the tools are critical.

    macOS is still Unix. : )

    BSD to be exact. ;)
    --
    Finally getting over my Moderna shot #1 hang over that pinched me.
    Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
    /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
    / /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
    | |o o| |
    \ _ /
    ( )

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jolly Roger@21:1/5 to Ant on Fri Mar 19 22:36:16 2021
    On 2021-03-19, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
    Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
    On 2021-03-13, Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:

    I'm still running Mojave. I haven't updated because I have an
    important app that hasn't been converted yet. However, that is
    coming and it got me thinking. With all the changes Apple is
    making, not only with the OS but also the M1 chip, are they still
    supporting Unix tools? I have an awful lot of personal software
    that relies on these.

    Many years ago AT&T had a Unix for Windows tool set that I used but
    it was never as clean as I would have liked and I didn't really
    like Windows. The main reason I switched to NeXT and then to Apple
    years ago was,for the GUI and the Unix Tools. Now I really like
    Apple products but the tools are critical.

    macOS is still Unix. : )

    BSD to be exact. ;)

    Actually macOS is its own distinct flavor of Unix, with some kernel
    layers and user space code derived from BSD. ; )

    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Robert Peirce@21:1/5 to Jolly Roger on Sat Mar 20 09:55:18 2021
    On 3/15/21 6:13 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
    How can anyone know if you don't list at least some of them.

    Like I said, macOS is still Unix. That means a shit ton of tools are
    there.

    I thought I followed up on this but it seems I didn't.

    I use just about all the tools in the bin directory under Mojave and a
    few from sbin. If I have to compile them, so be it. I would just like
    to know because if I do, none of my ksh scripts will work out of the box.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jolly Roger@21:1/5 to Robert Peirce on Sat Mar 20 16:03:09 2021
    On 2021-03-20, Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
    On 3/15/21 6:13 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
    How can anyone know if you don't list at least some of them.

    Like I said, macOS is still Unix. That means a shit ton of tools are
    there.

    I thought I followed up on this but it seems I didn't.

    I use just about all the tools in the bin directory under Mojave and a
    few from sbin. If I have to compile them, so be it. I would just like
    to know because if I do, none of my ksh scripts will work out of the box.

    Of course all the normal things are there:

    # sw_vers

    ProductName: macOS
    ProductVersion: 11.2.2
    BuildVersion: 20D80

    # ls /bin | cat

    [
    bash
    cat
    chmod
    cp
    csh
    dash
    date
    dd
    df
    echo
    ed
    expr
    hostname
    kill
    ksh
    launchctl
    link
    ln
    ls
    mkdir
    mv
    pax
    ps
    pwd
    rm
    rmdir
    sh
    sleep
    stty
    sync
    tcsh
    test
    unlink
    wait4path
    zsh

    # ls /sbin | cat

    apfs_hfs_convert
    apfs_unlockfv
    disklabel
    dmesg
    dynamic_pager
    emond
    fibreconfig
    fsck
    fsck_apfs
    fsck_cs
    fsck_exfat
    fsck_hfs
    fsck_msdos
    fsck_udf
    fstyp
    fstyp_hfs
    fstyp_msdos
    fstyp_ntfs
    fstyp_udf
    halt
    ifconfig
    kextload
    kextunload
    launchd
    md5
    mknod
    mount
    mount_9p
    mount_acfs
    mount_afp
    mount_apfs
    mount_cd9660
    mount_cddafs
    mount_devfs
    mount_exfat
    mount_fdesc
    mount_ftp
    mount_hfs
    mount_msdos
    mount_nfs
    mount_ntfs
    mount_smbfs
    mount_tmpfs
    mount_udf
    mount_webdav
    mpioutil
    newfs_apfs
    newfs_exfat
    newfs_hfs
    newfs_msdos
    newfs_udf
    nfsd
    nfsiod
    nologin
    pfctl
    ping
    ping6
    quotacheck
    reboot
    route
    rtsol
    shutdown
    umount

    macOS hasn't changed into a completely new OS.
    *It's* *still* *Unix*.

    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard L. Hamilton@21:1/5 to Robert Peirce on Mon May 10 11:08:58 2021
    In article <s2jft8$1ugo$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
    Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> writes:
    I'm still running Mojave. I haven't updated because I have an important
    app that hasn't been converted yet. However, that is coming and it got
    me thinking. With all the changes Apple is making, not only with the OS
    but also the M1 chip, are they still supporting Unix tools? I have an
    awful lot of personal software that relies on these.

    Many years ago AT&T had a Unix for Windows tool set that I used but it
    was never as clean as I would have liked and I didn't really like
    Windows. The main reason I switched to NeXT and then to Apple years ago was,for the GUI and the Unix Tools. Now I really like Apple products
    but the tools are critical.

    More freeware for macOS from macports, homebrew, and fink. Some are precompiled, some you have to have XCode installed so that the package
    can build itself.

    Alternatives to UWIN (sometimes written as U/Win), what you were referring
    to, include cygwin and on recent Windows 10, WSL and even WSL 2. WSL (1) does
    a bit what the others do and provides a Linux-like environment without
    actually using a Linux kernel. WSL 2 (requires quite new version of Windows, not sure if that's made it to mainstream yet or still beta releases) actually runs a Linux VM with a minimalist version of the Windows hypervisor facility. Multiple distros are available that will run under WSL or WSL 2. Ubuntu for example does not use systemd on there, which means there are some things you can't do. WSL 2 will shut down some time after the last of its windows the
    user has open is closed. WSL (1) stores files directly in the Windows filesystem,
    in a per-user private directory, and those files should not be modified
    by native Windows programs, since WSL (like SFU before it) makes some odd
    uses of attributes etc to store Unix/Linux file attributes, and a native Windows program might mess that up. WSL (1) can also access regular Windows files, and that's ok going back and forth. WSL 2 has a disk image file and
    is using an actual Linux filesystem, but uses something like 9P protocol to make that available to Windows; so either can modify those files safely, although they're only available while the VM is running.

    Note: I always preferred some Unix/Linux to Windows, and that still
    holds. So I prefer a Mac to Windows (although sometimes the amount of
    black magic on a Mac, by which I mean undocumented Mach or other
    kernel interfaces, daemon programs, etc, kind of gets on my nerves; if
    one has read most of the docs, it IMO _should_ be possible to
    understand how a user-space program does what it does, but what I call
    black magic stands in the way of that). I'm just saying that there are
    ways other than UWIN to make Windows suck less in terms of providing
    access to Unix tools.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard L. Hamilton@21:1/5 to Niels S. Eliasen on Mon May 10 11:19:04 2021
    In article <60545fda$0$674$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
    "Niels S. Eliasen" <nse@eliasen.co> writes:
    On 2021-03-15, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
    On 2021-03-15, Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
    On 3/14/21 5:37 AM, Lewis wrote:
    In message <s2jft8$1ugo$1@gioia.aioe.org> Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
    will install the Xcode command-line tools (you do NOT need to install
    the 12GB Xcode IDE) and then compile and install pretty much any UNIX
    tools you want.

    All the tools I need came compiled up until now. Has that changed?

    How can anyone know if you don't list at least some of them.

    Like I said, macOS is still Unix. That means a shit ton of tools are
    there.


    but still missing "sar" and/or "sysstat" .... or is there someone who
    knows how to get it compiled and working (under Big Sur)?

    Is sysstat Linux-specific? But AFAIK sar is a System V thing (not by
    any means ALL flavors of Unix, although I gather at least some Linux
    has it), and depends on what statistics the kernel makes reasonably
    available. Where a similar set of statistics (device, buffer,
    whatever) are available, one could probably provide similar
    functionality in a port of sar. Apple has their own tools to a fair
    degree, here's some of them: https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Performance/Conceptual/PerformanceOverview/PerformanceTools/PerformanceTools.html

    I was tempted to port acctcom from OpenSolaris, which I find more useful than the Mac (and BSD?) sa(8) command, but I think the Mac's accounting file was missing a field or two, and I probably decided I had better things to do.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)