< Sorry for the duplicate post but my NSP doesn't allow cross-posting>
The argument appears to be that because Child Pornography is vile,
Apple (or anyone else for that matter) is justified in violating normal expectations of privacy in a free society and spying (but just a
little, mind you) on their users and presumably reporting their
findings to the authorities.
So what is my solution for Child Pornography? I don't have one. But
_this_ isn't it.
In article <0001HW.DD36A769020AEC00B02919BF@news.astraweb.com>, Ed
Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
< Sorry for the duplicate post but my NSP doesn't allow cross-posting>
get a better nsp.
nospam wrote:
In article <0001HW.DD36A769020AEC00B02919BF@news.astraweb.com>, Ed
Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
< Sorry for the duplicate post but my NSP doesn't allow cross-posting>
get a better nsp.
Seconded.
nospam wrote:
In article <0001HW.DD36A769020AEC00B02919BF@news.astraweb.com>, Ed
Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
< Sorry for the duplicate post but my NSP doesn't allow cross-posting>
get a better nsp.
Seconded.
On 2021-08-09 16:26:03 +0000, Auric__ said:
nospam wrote:
In article <0001HW.DD36A769020AEC00B02919BF@news.astraweb.com>, Ed
Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
< Sorry for the duplicate post but my NSP doesn't allow cross-posting>
get a better nsp.
Seconded.
And don't bother trying to post conspiracy nutter garbage in the first
place. :-\
Open letter warns of expanding surveillance uses
Over 6,000 people signed an open letter urging Apple to reverse course, saying, "Apple's current path threatens to undermine decades of work by technologists, academics and policy advocates towards strong privacy-preserving measures being the norm across a majority of consumer electronic devices and use cases."
The letter quoted several security experts, including researcher Nadim Kobeissi, who wrote, "Reminder: Apple sells iPhones without FaceTime in Saudi
Arabia, because local regulation prohibits encrypted phone calls. That's just
one example of many where Apple's bent to local pressure. What happens when local regulation mandates that messages be scanned for homosexuality?"
The letter also quotes Johns Hopkins University cryptography professor Matthew Green, who told Wired, "The pressure is going to come from the UK, from the US, from India, from China. I'm terrified about what that's going to
look like. Why would Apple want to tell the world, 'Hey, we've got this tool'?"
On Mon, 9 Aug 2021 18:33:55 -0400, Your Name wrote<snip>
(in article <sesagj$1h6b$1@gioia.aioe.org>):
On 2021-08-09 16:26:03 +0000, Auric__ said:
nospam wrote:
In article <0001HW.DD36A769020AEC00B02919BF@news.astraweb.com>, Ed
Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
< Sorry for the duplicate post but my NSP doesn't allow cross-posting> >>>>get a better nsp.
Seconded.
And don't bother trying to post conspiracy nutter garbage in the first
place. :-\
6.000 more conspiracy nutters I guess:
Open letter warns of expanding surveillance uses
Over 6,000 people signed an open letter urging Apple to reverse course,
saying, "Apple's current path threatens to undermine decades of work by
technologists, academics and policy advocates towards strong
privacy-preserving measures being the norm across a majority of consumer
electronic devices and use cases."
On 2021-08-10 00:06:23 +0000, Ed Norton said:
On Mon, 9 Aug 2021 18:33:55 -0400, Your Name wrote<snip>
(in article <sesagj$1h6b$1@gioia.aioe.org>):
On 2021-08-09 16:26:03 +0000, Auric__ said:
nospam wrote:
In article <0001HW.DD36A769020AEC00B02919BF@news.astraweb.com>, Ed
Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
< Sorry for the duplicate post but my NSP doesn't allow cross-posting> >>>>>get a better nsp.
Seconded.
And don't bother trying to post conspiracy nutter garbage in the first
place. :-\
6.000 more conspiracy nutters I guess:
Open letter warns of expanding surveillance uses
Over 6,000 people signed an open letter urging Apple to reverse course,
saying, "Apple's current path threatens to undermine decades of work by
technologists, academics and policy advocates towards strong
privacy-preserving measures being the norm across a majority of consumer >>> electronic devices and use cases."
^ 6000 is a mere drip in the ocean of morons ... you just have to look
at the *millions* of idiots in America alone (home of the conspiracy nutters!) who believe Covid is a world-wide government hoax. :-\
<snip>Over 6,000 people signed an open letter urging Apple to reverse course, >>> saying, "Apple's current path threatens to undermine decades of work by >>> technologists, academics and policy advocates towards strong
privacy-preserving measures being the norm across a majority of consumer >>> electronic devices and use cases."
^ 6000 is a mere drip in the ocean of morons ... you just have to look
at the *millions* of idiots in America alone (home of the conspiracy nutters!) who believe Covid is a world-wide government hoax. :-\
I doubt if there are millions who believe that.
A few loudmouths on
the internet who the media plays up for their own purposes. I've never
met any. I think the real reason is that people have lost trust in the government and the media after being lied to so often and don't know
what to believe. First it was don't wear masks, then it was wear
masks. Then it was it didn't come from a lab in China, now it's maybe.
Then there were all the scare stories about the levels of death that
never happened.
Then the hypocricy of the politicians.
Then the
conflictiong stories about the effectiveness and the side effects ahd
the dhrill self-righteousness of the politicians on both sides. Trust
as broken dow and people are thrown back on their own intuitions.
And,
since the vast majority of the people will recover from the virus if
they get it, it probably seems less risky than a mismash of hurriedly developed vaccines.
Then of course there is human nature which
discounts threats as a means psychological self preservation in order
to get on with life.
Reasonable people can make different choices in ambiguous situations.
Dismissing everyone who makes a different choice than yourslf as a "conspiracy nutter" makes you sound like a "nutter" yourself.
In article <0001HW.DD37DBB4024C44D4B02919BF@news.astraweb.com>, Ed
Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
I doubt if there are millions who believe that.<snip>Over 6,000 people signed an open letter urging Apple to reverse course, >>>>> saying, "Apple's current path threatens to undermine decades of work by >>>>> technologists, academics and policy advocates towards strong
privacy-preserving measures being the norm across a majority of consumer >>>>> electronic devices and use cases."
^ 6000 is a mere drip in the ocean of morons ... you just have to look
at the *millions* of idiots in America alone (home of the conspiracy
nutters!) who believe Covid is a world-wide government hoax. :-\
believe it.
a *substantial* number of people think covid is hoax, some sort of plot
to overthrow the government, a bioweapon to depopulate the planet or
some other bizarro nutjob conspiracy theory.
A few loudmouths on
the internet who the media plays up for their own purposes. I've never
met any. I think the real reason is that people have lost trust in the
government and the media after being lied to so often and don't know
what to believe. First it was don't wear masks, then it was wear
masks. Then it was it didn't come from a lab in China, now it's maybe.
nobody lied.
the virus is new, never seen before.
early on there was very little information on how it spread or how to
treat it. many assumptions about it were made based on existing
viruses, because that's the only data that was available at the time.
as more information was learned about covid, some of the early
assumptions turned out to be wrong, so the guidance on how to deal with
it changed.
decisions must be based on actual data. that's what builds trust.
Then there were all the scare stories about the levels of death that
never happened.
630k dead in the usa alone is not scary enough?
piles of bodies in other countries because there's nowhere to put the
corpses is not scary enough?
even funeral homes in the usa had months long waiting lists because so
many people were dead and they simply couldn't handle it.
Then the hypocricy of the politicians.
that never changes.
Then the
conflictiong stories about the effectiveness and the side effects ahd
the dhrill self-righteousness of the politicians on both sides. Trust
as broken dow and people are thrown back on their own intuitions.
the only conflicting stories are from the conspiracy websites and quack doctors that spew crazy shit just to get the clicks and grift money off
of ignorant people.
And,
since the vast majority of the people will recover from the virus if
they get it, it probably seems less risky than a mismash of hurriedly
developed vaccines.
not quite.
most people recover, in that they didn't die, but they may have spent a
week or two very, very sick, some of whom had to go to the hospital,
possibly in intensive care.
roughly a third to a half of those who had covid continue to have long
term issues for months after they 'recovered'.
so technically, they 'recovered' in that they didn't die, but their
lives are forever changed, and not for the better.
as for the vaccines, they were not rushed.
the vaccines went through full phase i, ii & iii trials, with far more volunteers than normal, in an environment where waiting for people to
get infected was very short.
the only 'rush' was a financial risk where the vaccine makers started manufacturing doses *before* knowing if it would be safe. that did not
in any way affect safety.
had it turned out to be unsafe, they would had to have discarded the
doses and incur a significant loss. fortunately, it turned out to be
safe, so they had doses ready to go, cutting months off the process.
Then of course there is human nature which
discounts threats as a means psychological self preservation in order
to get on with life.
actually, people greatly misunderstand threats.
people are scared of flying, but have no issues driving, despite flying
being far safer.
people are also afraid of well tested vaccines that has been given to billions of people so far worldwide with almost no issues (nothing is perfect), but will happily will take some random 'cure' pushed by some crackpot doctor on some newly created website.
Reasonable people can make different choices in ambiguous situations.
the science is clear.
Dismissing everyone who makes a different choice than yourslf as a
"conspiracy nutter" makes you sound like a "nutter" yourself.
dismissing those who ignore science and make choices based on some
wacko website is the very definition of conspiracy nutter.
one of the more amusing ones is don't take the vaccine because you'll
end up being magnetic causing your house keys to stick to you, despite
the fact that keys are normally *not* ferromagnetic and won't stick to
actual magnets.
it might have started out as a joke, but there are actually people who believe that shit, one of whom testified at some hearing.
On Tue, 10 Aug 2021 12:25:56 -0400, nospam wrote
(in article <100820211225561785%nospam@nospam.invalid>):
In article <0001HW.DD37DBB4024C44D4B02919BF@news.astraweb.com>, Ed
Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
I doubt if there are millions who believe that.<snip>Over 6,000 people signed an open letter urging Apple to reverse course, >>>>>> saying, "Apple's current path threatens to undermine decades of work by >>>>>> technologists, academics and policy advocates towards strong
privacy-preserving measures being the norm across a majority of consumer >>>>>> electronic devices and use cases."
^ 6000 is a mere drip in the ocean of morons ... you just have to look >>>> at the *millions* of idiots in America alone (home of the conspiracy
nutters!) who believe Covid is a world-wide government hoax. :-\
believe it.
a *substantial* number of people think covid is hoax, some sort of plot
to overthrow the government, a bioweapon to depopulate the planet or
some other bizarro nutjob conspiracy theory.
A few loudmouths on
the internet who the media plays up for their own purposes. I've never
met any. I think the real reason is that people have lost trust in the
government and the media after being lied to so often and don't know
what to believe. First it was don't wear masks, then it was wear
masks. Then it was it didn't come from a lab in China, now it's maybe.
nobody lied.
the virus is new, never seen before.
early on there was very little information on how it spread or how to
treat it. many assumptions about it were made based on existing
viruses, because that's the only data that was available at the time.
as more information was learned about covid, some of the early
assumptions turned out to be wrong, so the guidance on how to deal with
it changed.
decisions must be based on actual data. that's what builds trust.
Then there were all the scare stories about the levels of death that
never happened.
630k dead in the usa alone is not scary enough?
Almost eight billion people on earth. The odds of survival seem pretty
good to me.
piles of bodies in other countries because there's nowhere to put the
corpses is not scary enough?
The 1918 pandemic was much worse but people muddled through without
shutting down the whole world.
Then of course there is human nature which
discounts threats as a means psychological self preservation in order
to get on with life.
actually, people greatly misunderstand threats.
Agreed. And COVID is one of them. Show me a table that ranks causes
of death over the last two years with COVID anywhere near the top.
On 2021-08-10 4:04 p.m., Ed Norton wrote:
On Tue, 10 Aug 2021 12:25:56 -0400, nospam wrote
(in article <100820211225561785%nospam@nospam.invalid>):
In article <0001HW.DD37DBB4024C44D4B02919BF@news.astraweb.com>, Ed
Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
I doubt if there are millions who believe that.<snip>Over 6,000 people signed an open letter urging Apple to reverse course, >>>>>>> saying, "Apple's current path threatens to undermine decades of work by >>>>>>> technologists, academics and policy advocates towards strong
privacy-preserving measures being the norm across a majority of
consumer
electronic devices and use cases."
^ 6000 is a mere drip in the ocean of morons ... you just have to look >>>>> at the *millions* of idiots in America alone (home of the conspiracy >>>>> nutters!) who believe Covid is a world-wide government hoax. :-\
believe it.
a *substantial* number of people think covid is hoax, some sort of plot
to overthrow the government, a bioweapon to depopulate the planet or
some other bizarro nutjob conspiracy theory.
A few loudmouths onnobody lied.
the internet who the media plays up for their own purposes. I've never >>>> met any. I think the real reason is that people have lost trust in the >>>> government and the media after being lied to so often and don't know
what to believe. First it was don't wear masks, then it was wear
masks. Then it was it didn't come from a lab in China, now it's maybe. >>>
the virus is new, never seen before.
early on there was very little information on how it spread or how to
treat it. many assumptions about it were made based on existing
viruses, because that's the only data that was available at the time.
as more information was learned about covid, some of the early
assumptions turned out to be wrong, so the guidance on how to deal with
it changed.
decisions must be based on actual data. that's what builds trust.
Then there were all the scare stories about the levels of death that
never happened.
630k dead in the usa alone is not scary enough?
Almost eight billion people on earth. The odds of survival seem pretty
good to me.
8 billion on Earth...
...along with nearly 4.5 million deaths.
How do you like your odds now?
And where do you live? Are your local odds better or worse?
piles of bodies in other countries because there's nowhere to put the
corpses is not scary enough?
The 1918 pandemic was much worse but people muddled through without
shutting down the whole world.
It wasn't much worse, sorry.
With far greater efforts, we've limited the number who have died from COVID-19.
Imagine how much worse it would have been with only 1918 medicine.
Then of course there is human nature which
discounts threats as a means psychological self preservation in order
to get on with life.
actually, people greatly misunderstand threats.
Agreed. And COVID is one of them. Show me a table that ranks causes
of death over the last two years with COVID anywhere near the top.
Done:
<https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234>
Only cancer and heart disease killed more in 2020
Then there were all the scare stories about the levels of death that
never happened.
630k dead in the usa alone is not scary enough?
Almost eight billion people on earth. The odds of survival seem pretty
good to me.
piles of bodies in other countries because there's nowhere to put the corpses is not scary enough?
The 1918 pandemic was much worse but people muddled through without
shutting down the whole world.
even funeral homes in the usa had months long waiting lists because so
many people were dead and they simply couldn't handle it.
Then the hypocricy of the politicians.
that never changes.
Then the
conflictiong stories about the effectiveness and the side effects ahd
the dhrill self-righteousness of the politicians on both sides. Trust
as broken dow and people are thrown back on their own intuitions.
the only conflicting stories are from the conspiracy websites and quack doctors that spew crazy shit just to get the clicks and grift money off
of ignorant people.
If I were you I'd call you a liar but I realize you are just using
hyperbole as a figure of speech.
Then of course there is human nature which
discounts threats as a means psychological self preservation in order
to get on with life.
actually, people greatly misunderstand threats.
Agreed. And COVID is one of them. Show me a table that ranks causes
of death over the last two years with COVID anywhere near the top.
people are scared of flying, but have no issues driving, despite flying being far safer.
people are also afraid of well tested vaccines that has been given to billions of people so far worldwide with almost no issues (nothing is perfect), but will happily will take some random 'cure' pushed by some crackpot doctor on some newly created website.
Reasonable people can make different choices in ambiguous situations.
the science is clear.
No, it is most definitely not.
If you believe that you don't
understand the Scientific Method. The science was clear to the French Academy when they declared that rocks don't fall from the sky. What is
clear is opinions based on incomplete data and less than two years of experience with a constantly changing phenomenon.
Dismissing everyone who makes a different choice than yourslf as a
"conspiracy nutter" makes you sound like a "nutter" yourself.
dismissing those who ignore science and make choices based on some
wacko website is the very definition of conspiracy nutter.
Straw man.
if you upload photos that are in a database of child porn, you might
have some explaining to do.
In article <0001HW.DD387E2B027258A1B02919BF@news.astraweb.com>, Ed
Norton <norton@nowhere.com> wrote:
Then there were all the scare stories about the levels of death that
never happened.
630k dead in the usa alone is not scary enough?
Almost eight billion people on earth. The odds of survival seem pretty
good to me.
major math fail.
the calculation is number of deaths out of number of cases, for
whatever region you want, but even that is misleading.
as i said, survival isn't the only bad outcome.
those who get covid can be sick for a week or two, possibly in the
hospital, some of whom are in icu, maybe even on a ventilator in a
coma, and if they recover, they often have lingering symptoms for
months later, which may mean being unable to work.
there have been reports of people who used to jog 5 miles or play
tennis or whatever, but now get winded when walking up a flight of
stairs, long after they've recovered.
also, people who have had covid are at a higher risk for heart disease, kidney disease and various other ailments.
piles of bodies in other countries because there's nowhere to put the
corpses is not scary enough?
The 1918 pandemic was much worse but people muddled through without
shutting down the whole world.
the current pandemic isn't over yet, so it's premature to compare it to anything.
you're also ignoring that the current pandemic has numerous effective vaccines, which did not exist in 1918. comparing the raw numbers of one pandemic which has effective vaccines to one without is not valid.
people also wore masks in 1918, without the bitching and stubbornness
that exists today.
even funeral homes in the usa had months long waiting lists because so
many people were dead and they simply couldn't handle it.
Then the hypocricy of the politicians.
that never changes.
Then the
conflictiong stories about the effectiveness and the side effects ahd
the dhrill self-righteousness of the politicians on both sides. Trust >>>> as broken dow and people are thrown back on their own intuitions.
the only conflicting stories are from the conspiracy websites and quack
doctors that spew crazy shit just to get the clicks and grift money off
of ignorant people.
If I were you I'd call you a liar but I realize you are just using
hyperbole as a figure of speech.
nothing about that is hyperbole. that's exactly what they do, and they
know it.
the governor of florida is selling anti-fauci swag and making quite a
bit of money. it's absolutely disgusting. his actions are causing
people to die and all he cares about is fundraising and his political
future.
the grifting is not limited to only covid either.
trump's anti-free speech lawsuit is so incredibly frivolous that it is guaranteed to be dismissed, with the lawyers who filed likely to be sanctioned for having filed it.
except that doesn't actually matter, since winning the lawsuit was
never the goal.
getting people to donate money was the goal, with one way by sending
money to 'join' the lawsuit (it doesn't work that way), despite the
lawsuit guaranteed to be dismissed, at which point he'll claim the
judges are corrupt and ask for more money.
trump also had a fundraising site to fight the mythical election fraud
he claimed was widespread, except the fine print stated that donations
are not required to be used for that purpose, which of course they
weren't.
Then of course there is human nature which
discounts threats as a means psychological self preservation in order
to get on with life.
actually, people greatly misunderstand threats.
Agreed. And COVID is one of them. Show me a table that ranks causes
of death over the last two years with COVID anywhere near the top.
covid is currently the third leading cause of death, for a disease that
did not exist less than 2 years ago.
that's quite the impressive feat, and not in a good way.
covid is still spreading out of control in the southern part of the
usa, particularly florida, where it's about to get *very* bad, as well
as many other countries worldwide, where cases are also climbing.
people are scared of flying, but have no issues driving, despite flying
being far safer.
people are also afraid of well tested vaccines that has been given to
billions of people so far worldwide with almost no issues (nothing is
perfect), but will happily will take some random 'cure' pushed by some
crackpot doctor on some newly created website.
Reasonable people can make different choices in ambiguous situations.
the science is clear.
No, it is most definitely not.
what part isn't clear??
If you believe that you don't
understand the Scientific Method. The science was clear to the French
Academy when they declared that rocks don't fall from the sky. What is
clear is opinions based on incomplete data and less than two years of
experience with a constantly changing phenomenon.
what data are you claiming is incomplete or constantly changing?
Dismissing everyone who makes a different choice than yourslf as a
"conspiracy nutter" makes you sound like a "nutter" yourself.
dismissing those who ignore science and make choices based on some
wacko website is the very definition of conspiracy nutter.
Straw man.
that is not in any way a straw man.
what would you call people who believe the crazy nutjob theories, ones
which are easily proven wrong, some of which are so fucked up that it's amazing that anyone even thinks they might be true, let alone actually believing it.
'nutters' doesn't even begin to describe these people.
one such claim is that the covid vaccines cause sterility, despite
vaccinated women getting pregnant and having healthy babies, along with
the vaccinated men who impregnated them. it's bullshit, yet people
believe it anyway.
early on, there were claims that 5g cellular service caused covid
because covid outbreaks were in areas where 5g had been deployed,
therefore the cause could only be 5g, resulting in people vandalizing
5g towers. not surprisingly, that did not help.
<https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-04-21/conspiracy-theori sts-burn-5g-towers-claiming-link-to-virus> <https://www.cnet.com/health/5g-coronavirus-conspiracy-theory-sees-77-mo bile-towers-burned-report-says/> <https://www.pcmag.com/news/over-50-cell-towers-vandalised-in-uk-due-to- 5g-coronavirus-conspiracy-theories>
another one claims the vaccines actually contain poison and that people
who have been vaccinated will be dead in a year or two because it's a
secret plot to depopulate the planet. somehow, multiple pharmaceutical companies and many thousands of people are all in on this plan with not
a single person ever confessing. they never actually say why this is
even a desirable goal either.
several sites claim that the vaccines cause sorts of side effects and
even deaths, citing numbers they don't actually understand, and instead suggest that people use various drugs, vitamins and even herbal
treatments, never mentioning that clinical trials have shown that none
of it is in any way effective and usually makes things worse.
if you upload photos that are in a database of child porn, you might
have some explaining to do.
No.
The software degrades you photo into a "context" and if the
"context" of an image in that database matches, then your onw image is flagged as child porn, and when it goes to iCloud, Apple looks at that
flag and takes action.
Because the logic to create that context is secret and not open source, nobody can verify it. Nobody can verify what are the odds of a fasle positive.
The fact that Apple has had to resort to confusing terminology such as "hashtag" and "cryptography" to confuse people is telling instead of
being honest about what its software actually does.
For all we know, the software created a few thumbnails after cropping
out irrelevant portion of image keeping only what AI has decided is a
human subject. We know they ditch colour, and likely have few thumbnails (horizonal flipped, vertical flipped etc). Once you crop contect from
an image, the remainig image of a child can no longer be distinguisehd
from a family pictuire from a chipd porn picture. That is the danger.
Nbecause false positives have serious impact on a person's life, the
risk of false accusation of pedophile cannot be taken likely.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 296 |
| Nodes: | 16 (3 / 13) |
| Uptime: | 50:03:42 |
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| Files: | 12,200 |
| Messages: | 5,330,189 |