George Sanderson (aiss...@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au) wrote:
: [response from Id software]
: From jo...@idcube.idsoftware.com Sun Sep 4 02:52 EST 1994
: From: John Carmack <jo...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
: Date: Sat, 3 Sep 94 11:50:23 -0600
: To: G.San...@ais.gu.edu.au
: Subject: amiga doom
: The amiga is not powerfull enough to run DOOM. It takes the full
: speed of a 68040 to play the game properly even if you have a chunky
: pixel mode in hardware. Having to convert to bit planes would kill
: it even on the fastest amiga hardware, not to mention the effect it
: would have on the majority of the amiga base.
What a joke! The 68040 is EASILY as capable as any 486 out there, and the Amiga has additional hardware support. Furthermore, there ARE Spectrum, Piccolo, Picasso II, Merlin, Rainbow II, Rainbow III, owners out there too. My dealer says it's very difficult to get Picasso II's anymore because
his distributer is constantly selling out. Always on backorder.
--
//
// Maxwell Daymon
\\ // mda...@rmii.com
\X/
George Sanderson (aiss...@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au) wrote:
: [response from Id software]
: From jo...@idcube.idsoftware.com Sun Sep 4 02:52 EST 1994
: From: John Carmack <jo...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
: Date: Sat, 3 Sep 94 11:50:23 -0600
: To: G.San...@ais.gu.edu.au
: Subject: amiga doom
: The amiga is not powerfull enough to run DOOM. It takes the full
: speed of a 68040 to play the game properly even if you have a chunky
: pixel mode in hardware. Having to convert to bit planes would kill
: it even on the fastest amiga hardware, not to mention the effect it
: would have on the majority of the amiga base.
What a joke! The 68040 is EASILY as capable as any 486 out there, and the Amiga has additional hardware support. Furthermore, there ARE Spectrum, Piccolo, Picasso II, Merlin, Rainbow II, Rainbow III, owners out there too. My dealer says it's very difficult to get Picasso II's anymore because
his distributer is constantly selling out. Always on backorder.
--
//
// Maxwell Daymon
\\ // mda...@rmii.com
\X/
Stefan G. Berg (sgb...@mango.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
: mda...@rmii.com (Maxwell Daymon) writes:
: >: The amiga is not powerfull enough to run DOOM. It takes the full
: >: speed of a 68040 to play the game properly even if you have a chunky ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: >: pixel mode in hardware. Having to convert to bit planes would kill ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^1 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^2
: >What a joke! The 68040 is EASILY as capable as any 486 out there, and the : >Amiga has additional hardware support. Furthermore, there ARE Spectrum,
: You don't get it, do you? The 68040 has nothing to do with the fact that No, you don't. Let me explain:
See note 1, now look at note 2. Do you see a contradiction? Once you have
a chunky pixel mode in hardware (Picasso II) then you are down to bare processors. In this case, the 68040 is fully capable of performing as
fast as a 486 or more. Furthermore, most Amiga boards let you write in
large chunks anywhere to the board - clones go through stupid little I/O buffers. Therfore, the Amiga would outpace it easily.
He is saying "Even if you had chunky pixel mode in hardware (e.g. Picasso II), you'd need all the processor time to convert."
WHY convert if you have the mode ALREADY? Furthermore, if you have
hardware assistance for chunky -> planar, why not?
: the Amiga is having great difficulties with games depending on a chunky
: pixel mode (well... of course a faster CPU always helps, but that's not
: the point here). Games like doom render the frames in real time. Those
: programs determine the color of each pixel on the screen individually.
My 68040/33MHz runs TextDemo5-ECS *TOO FAST* It's completely unplayable until you get to absolute full screen. Once there, it feels okay. On my 68030 based system it isn't nearly as face-warpingly fast - but it still performs. The uninformed person who stated that the 68040 would be
saturated was just WRONG.
Furthermore, my point was based on his statement of "the 68040 can't
handle it EVEN WITH a hardware based chunky pixel mode" (Such as the
Picasso II, Spectrum, etc). Hardware based chunky-to-planar CONVERSION is
a different story, though I can still see it happening.
: There are some attempts at doing a quick conversing of a chunky pixel
: screen to a bit mapped screen. Look in aminet for some really amazing
: demos showing texture mapped user controllable dungeons in smooth motion
: (on my A500/040 at least).
See my above reference.
: I am not saying Doom will not happen for the Amiga. All I am trying
: to say is that it takes more than a "Please id software, could you
: not just try to do a quick port of Doom using this c2p routine I
: have here?". I very much doubt that id software is willing to do much
: more for the Amiga.
I know of at least one software company that wants to do the port at no charge to ID. They only want to share in the profits.
: To tell the truth, I have the feeling that John doesn't even want
: to support the Amiga platform. I mean... he already starts out by
: saying that "the Amiga isn't powerfull enough" (is it proper to
: quote in full with all the spelling errors?). It really has nothing
: to do with "power". It more has to do with a different hardware
: basis which happens to be badly suited for pixel based changes. On
: the other the Amiga has enough power to have a smooth running GUI
: even on a teeny 68000-7 processor (just think how Windows would run
: on a 286-7!).
I suppose my post wasn't very clear. I *DO* understand the complexity of porting Doom to the Amiga. What made me angry was his statement about the 68040 EVEN WITH chunky based modes in hardware.
Frankly, I'd like to see a Doom KILLER, not Doom.
--
//
// Maxwell Daymon
\\ // mda...@rmii.com
\X/
On Sunday, 4 September 1994 at 23:37:17 UTC+1, Maxwell Daymon wrote:than the PC version it would be because of how much more powerful was the Amiga (allegedly, never substantiated, contradicted by actual performance data). Even now there is Still no competing product for the Amiga. Not even with all those demo writers
George Sanderson (aiss...@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au) wrote:
: [response from Id software]
: From jo...@idcube.idsoftware.com Sun Sep 4 02:52 EST 1994
: From: John Carmack <jo...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
: Date: Sat, 3 Sep 94 11:50:23 -0600
: To: G.San...@ais.gu.edu.au
: Subject: amiga doom
: The amiga is not powerfull enough to run DOOM. It takes the full
: speed of a 68040 to play the game properly even if you have a chunky
: pixel mode in hardware. Having to convert to bit planes would kill
: it even on the fastest amiga hardware, not to mention the effect it
: would have on the majority of the amiga base.
What a joke! The 68040 is EASILY as capable as any 486 out there, and the Amiga has additional hardware support. Furthermore, there ARE Spectrum, Piccolo, Picasso II, Merlin, Rainbow II, Rainbow III, owners out there too. My dealer says it's very difficult to get Picasso II's anymore because
his distributer is constantly selling out. Always on backorder.
--
//
// Maxwell Daymon
\\ // mda...@rmii.com
\X/
Your comments didn't age well, did they Max? I am now writing from the far future: November 1st 2021. 27 years after you wrote your comment, and 27 years of Amiga fans bawling about how easily Doom could be written for the Amiga and how much better
Let's all come back in December 2023 and celebrate the 30 empty years of a "still nope" lack of anything on the Amiga that truly competes with Doom.
On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 03:03:57 -0700 (PDT)than the PC version it would be because of how much more powerful was the Amiga (allegedly, never substantiated, contradicted by actual performance data). Even now there is Still no competing product for the Amiga. Not even with all those demo writers
Jake Envelopes <approximatecybe...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, 4 September 1994 at 23:37:17 UTC+1, Maxwell Daymon wrote:
George Sanderson (aiss...@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au) wrote:
: [response from Id software]
: From jo...@idcube.idsoftware.com Sun Sep 4 02:52 EST 1994
: From: John Carmack <jo...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
: Date: Sat, 3 Sep 94 11:50:23 -0600
: To: G.San...@ais.gu.edu.au
: Subject: amiga doom
: The amiga is not powerfull enough to run DOOM. It takes the full
: speed of a 68040 to play the game properly even if you have a chunky
: pixel mode in hardware. Having to convert to bit planes would kill
: it even on the fastest amiga hardware, not to mention the effect it
: would have on the majority of the amiga base.
What a joke! The 68040 is EASILY as capable as any 486 out there, and the
Amiga has additional hardware support. Furthermore, there ARE Spectrum, Piccolo, Picasso II, Merlin, Rainbow II, Rainbow III, owners out there too.
My dealer says it's very difficult to get Picasso II's anymore because his distributer is constantly selling out. Always on backorder.
--
//
// Maxwell Daymon
\\ // mda...@rmii.com
\X/
Your comments didn't age well, did they Max? I am now writing from the far future: November 1st 2021. 27 years after you wrote your comment, and 27 years of Amiga fans bawling about how easily Doom could be written for the Amiga and how much better
Let's all come back in December 2023 and celebrate the 30 empty years of a "still nope" lack of anything on the Amiga that truly competes with Doom.You have clearly not been keeping up with current events :D http://www.indieretronews.com/2021/09/dread-wip-doom-clone-on-amiga-500-gets.html
--
/ Pinku
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