• Celebrating Twenty Years

    From John@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 9 10:21:21 2021
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was
    performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I
    recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young age of 55.
    There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting character
    who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows
    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. Ever
    since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac has come
    since my first experiences with it at work in the nineties. Classic Mac
    OS sure was an embarrasment.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Campbell@21:1/5 to John on Tue Nov 9 23:27:12 2021
    John <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was
    performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I
    recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young age of 55.
    There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting character
    who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    Someone else posted a similar question a few weeks ago. Basically "Where
    has all the Mac Advocacy gone?"

    I'll give the same answer as I did then. There is no "advocacy" going on
    here because no one cares about Macs vs Windows these days. That was the Raging Debate 30 years ago.

    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android. With the
    same arguments being made. Android is "open" and represents "freedom"
    (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years ago).

    It is all just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for "real
    men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows
    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac has come
    since my first experiences with it at work in the nineties. Classic Mac
    OS sure was an embarrasment.

    Windows was just as embarrassing before Windows 2000. 3, 3.1, Win95 and
    Win98 were all based on DOS. Windows ME was a total POS.

    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue about VHS
    vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM. ARC vs ZIP.

    Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved on.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From -hh@21:1/5 to Bob Campbell on Wed Nov 10 03:47:22 2021
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:27:19 AM UTC-5, Bob Campbell wrote:
    John <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I
    recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting character
    who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup earlier this week;
    last I checked up on him, they were doing okay; his blog has some nice pics of his new home & office layout, etc.


    Someone else posted a similar question a few weeks ago. Basically "Where
    has all the Mac Advocacy gone?"

    I'll give the same answer as I did then. There is no "advocacy" going on here because no one cares about Macs vs Windows these days. That was the Raging Debate 30 years ago.

    Essentially, the "Apple is doomed!" has been debunked for years, particularly from the rise of iOS & AAPL price.

    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android. With the
    same arguments being made. Android is "open" and represents "freedom"
    (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years ago).

    It is all just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for "real men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄

    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the laptop market, where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a nice bump in October sales:

    "... 24% U.S. market share as of October 2021.."

    <https://macdailynews.com/2021/11/08/apple-mac-takes-24-share-of-u-s-laptop-market/>


    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows
    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. Ever
    since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac has come
    since my first experiences with it at work in the nineties. Classic Mac
    OS sure was an embarrasment.

    Windows was just as embarrassing before Windows 2000. 3, 3.1, Win95 and Win98 were all based on DOS. Windows ME was a total POS.

    LOL, I was thinking the same thing: we pretty much think of everything from that era as being primitive by our current level of expectations.

    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue about VHS
    vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM. ARC vs ZIP.
    Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved on.

    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go through
    his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of some iMac Pro
    rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop seen...


    -hh

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas E.@21:1/5 to Bob Campbell on Wed Nov 10 08:46:07 2021
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:27:19 AM UTC-5, Bob Campbell wrote:
    John <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I
    recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting character
    who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.
    Someone else posted a similar question a few weeks ago. Basically "Where
    has all the Mac Advocacy gone?"

    I'll give the same answer as I did then. There is no "advocacy" going on here because no one cares about Macs vs Windows these days. That was the Raging Debate 30 years ago.

    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android. With the
    same arguments being made. Android is "open" and represents "freedom"
    (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years ago).

    It is all just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for "real men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄
    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows
    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. Ever
    since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac has come
    since my first experiences with it at work in the nineties. Classic Mac
    OS sure was an embarrasment.
    Windows was just as embarrassing before Windows 2000. 3, 3.1, Win95 and Win98 were all based on DOS. Windows ME was a total POS.

    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue about VHS
    vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM. ARC vs ZIP.

    Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved on.

    Windows 2000 was an incredible step forward. I was rock stable from day 1. OS X not so much. Both have evolved into stable and useful ecosystems. The big difference today is hardware. Windows hardware has taken the cheap laptop route, Apple has taken the
    quality road for the most part. The extreme emphasis on thin and light hurt (aka the Butterfly keyboard and disappearing ports.) That has changed, and I now own by first MacBook.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas E.@21:1/5 to -hh on Wed Nov 10 08:57:45 2021
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 6:47:24 AM UTC-5, -hh wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:27:19 AM UTC-5, Bob Campbell wrote:
    John <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting character
    who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.
    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup earlier this week;
    last I checked up on him, they were doing okay; his blog has some nice pics of
    his new home & office layout, etc.
    Someone else posted a similar question a few weeks ago. Basically "Where has all the Mac Advocacy gone?"

    I'll give the same answer as I did then. There is no "advocacy" going on here because no one cares about Macs vs Windows these days. That was the Raging Debate 30 years ago.
    Essentially, the "Apple is doomed!" has been debunked for years, particularly
    from the rise of iOS & AAPL price.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android. With the same arguments being made. Android is "open" and represents "freedom" (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years ago).

    It is all just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for "real men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄
    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the laptop market,
    where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a nice bump in October sales:

    "... 24% U.S. market share as of October 2021.."

    <https://macdailynews.com/2021/11/08/apple-mac-takes-24-share-of-u-s-laptop-market/>
    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac has come
    since my first experiences with it at work in the nineties. Classic Mac OS sure was an embarrasment.

    Windows was just as embarrassing before Windows 2000. 3, 3.1, Win95 and Win98 were all based on DOS. Windows ME was a total POS.
    LOL, I was thinking the same thing: we pretty much think of everything from that era as being primitive by our current level of expectations.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM. ARC vs ZIP.
    Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved on.
    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go through
    his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of some iMac Pro rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop seen...


    -hh

    Note that as soon as Apple made a laptop with incredible speed, a good set of ports, and a durable keyboard I bought one. In fact, I bought it about a week after it was announced. I walked into the Apple Store expecting a 2-4 week wait. While I was
    talking to the sales person I saw a customer receive a new MacBook. I walked out with one too. Why is that so remarkable?

    Trust Apple to brag about solving problems they created with taking away ports and selling a POS keyboard. LOL. The Apple site is showing no availability at the local store and Dec 3-10 for delivery of my specs. I'm far from the only one delighted with
    Apple's solution to their self-created problems.

    Now if Alan Baker would just admit that Apple makes boneheaded mistakes (batterygate, butterfly, missing ports, fragile cables, etc. all denied) all would be in harmony in my Universe.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Thomas E. on Wed Nov 10 09:36:35 2021
    On 2021-11-10 8:57 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 6:47:24 AM UTC-5, -hh wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:27:19 AM UTC-5, Bob Campbell wrote: >>> John <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be a Mac >>>> advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was
    performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I
    recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. >>>> There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting character
    who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also. There was >>>> Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any real >>>> advocacy. Cannot remember the others.
    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup earlier this week;
    last I checked up on him, they were doing okay; his blog has some nice pics of
    his new home & office layout, etc.
    Someone else posted a similar question a few weeks ago. Basically "Where >>> has all the Mac Advocacy gone?"

    I'll give the same answer as I did then. There is no "advocacy" going on >>> here because no one cares about Macs vs Windows these days. That was the >>> Raging Debate 30 years ago.
    Essentially, the "Apple is doomed!" has been debunked for years, particularly
    from the rise of iOS & AAPL price.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android. With the
    same arguments being made. Android is "open" and represents "freedom"
    (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and iOS/iPadOS is the choice for
    "lemmings" who want to make a "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years >>> ago).

    It is all just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for "real >>> men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄
    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the laptop market,
    where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has
    apparently given them a nice bump in October sales:

    "... 24% U.S. market share as of October 2021.."

    <https://macdailynews.com/2021/11/08/apple-mac-takes-24-share-of-u-s-laptop-market/>
    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows >>>> XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. Ever
    since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac has come
    since my first experiences with it at work in the nineties. Classic Mac >>>> OS sure was an embarrasment.

    Windows was just as embarrassing before Windows 2000. 3, 3.1, Win95 and
    Win98 were all based on DOS. Windows ME was a total POS.
    LOL, I was thinking the same thing: we pretty much think of everything from >> that era as being primitive by our current level of expectations.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue about VHS >>> vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM. ARC vs ZIP.
    Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved on.
    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go through
    his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of some iMac Pro
    rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop seen...


    -hh

    Note that as soon as Apple made a laptop with incredible speed, a good set of ports, and a durable keyboard I bought one. In fact, I bought it about a week after it was announced. I walked into the Apple Store expecting a 2-4 week wait. While I was
    talking to the sales person I saw a customer receive a new MacBook. I walked out with one too. Why is that so remarkable?

    Trust Apple to brag about solving problems they created with taking away ports and selling a POS keyboard. LOL. The Apple site is showing no availability at the local store and Dec 3-10 for delivery of my specs. I'm far from the only one delighted with
    Apple's solution to their self-created problems.

    Now if Alan Baker would just admit that Apple makes boneheaded mistakes (batterygate, butterfly, missing ports, fragile cables, etc. all denied) all would be in harmony in my Universe.


    I've never denied that Apple makes mistakes, Liarboy.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas E.@21:1/5 to Alan on Wed Nov 10 20:16:22 2021
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:36:37 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-10 8:57 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 6:47:24 AM UTC-5, -hh wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:27:19 AM UTC-5, Bob Campbell wrote: >>> John <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be a Mac >>>> advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was
    performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I
    recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. >>>> There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting character >>>> who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also. There was >>>> Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any real >>>> advocacy. Cannot remember the others.
    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup earlier this week;
    last I checked up on him, they were doing okay; his blog has some nice pics of
    his new home & office layout, etc.
    Someone else posted a similar question a few weeks ago. Basically "Where >>> has all the Mac Advocacy gone?"

    I'll give the same answer as I did then. There is no "advocacy" going on >>> here because no one cares about Macs vs Windows these days. That was the >>> Raging Debate 30 years ago.
    Essentially, the "Apple is doomed!" has been debunked for years, particularly
    from the rise of iOS & AAPL price.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android. With the >>> same arguments being made. Android is "open" and represents "freedom" >>> (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and iOS/iPadOS is the choice for >>> "lemmings" who want to make a "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years
    ago).

    It is all just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for "real >>> men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄
    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the laptop market,
    where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has
    apparently given them a nice bump in October sales:

    "... 24% U.S. market share as of October 2021.."

    <https://macdailynews.com/2021/11/08/apple-mac-takes-24-share-of-u-s-laptop-market/>
    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows >>>> XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. Ever >>>> since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac has come
    since my first experiences with it at work in the nineties. Classic Mac >>>> OS sure was an embarrasment.

    Windows was just as embarrassing before Windows 2000. 3, 3.1, Win95 and >>> Win98 were all based on DOS. Windows ME was a total POS.
    LOL, I was thinking the same thing: we pretty much think of everything from
    that era as being primitive by our current level of expectations.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue about VHS >>> vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM. ARC vs ZIP.
    Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved on.
    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go through
    his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of some iMac Pro
    rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop seen...


    -hh

    Note that as soon as Apple made a laptop with incredible speed, a good set of ports, and a durable keyboard I bought one. In fact, I bought it about a week after it was announced. I walked into the Apple Store expecting a 2-4 week wait. While I was
    talking to the sales person I saw a customer receive a new MacBook. I walked out with one too. Why is that so remarkable?

    Trust Apple to brag about solving problems they created with taking away ports and selling a POS keyboard. LOL. The Apple site is showing no availability at the local store and Dec 3-10 for delivery of my specs. I'm far from the only one delighted
    with Apple's solution to their self-created problems.

    Now if Alan Baker would just admit that Apple makes boneheaded mistakes (batterygate, butterfly, missing ports, fragile cables, etc. all denied) all would be in harmony in my Universe.

    I've never denied that Apple makes mistakes, Liarboy.

    I did not say you had denied, you to my knowledge never admitted. Not the same thing Liarboy. You have defended and continue to defend Apple criticism. Please cite a instances where you stated that Apple was in the wrong.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas E.@21:1/5 to -hh on Wed Nov 10 20:49:53 2021
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 6:47:24 AM UTC-5, -hh wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:27:19 AM UTC-5, Bob Campbell wrote:
    John <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting character
    who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.
    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup earlier this week;
    last I checked up on him, they were doing okay; his blog has some nice pics of
    his new home & office layout, etc.
    Someone else posted a similar question a few weeks ago. Basically "Where has all the Mac Advocacy gone?"

    I'll give the same answer as I did then. There is no "advocacy" going on here because no one cares about Macs vs Windows these days. That was the Raging Debate 30 years ago.
    Essentially, the "Apple is doomed!" has been debunked for years, particularly
    from the rise of iOS & AAPL price.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android. With the same arguments being made. Android is "open" and represents "freedom" (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years ago).

    It is all just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for "real men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄
    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the laptop market,
    where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a nice bump in October sales:

    "... 24% U.S. market share as of October 2021.."

    <https://macdailynews.com/2021/11/08/apple-mac-takes-24-share-of-u-s-laptop-market/>
    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac has come
    since my first experiences with it at work in the nineties. Classic Mac OS sure was an embarrasment.

    Windows was just as embarrassing before Windows 2000. 3, 3.1, Win95 and Win98 were all based on DOS. Windows ME was a total POS.
    LOL, I was thinking the same thing: we pretty much think of everything from that era as being primitive by our current level of expectations.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM. ARC vs ZIP.
    Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved on.
    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go through
    his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of some iMac Pro rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop seen...


    -hh

    Yep, Mac OS prior to OS X was junk. No memory management to speak of, terrible multitasking, crash prone, it was arguably as bad as Windows 98 SE or ME. Windows 2000 was a revelation. Blew me away! Pretty much bullet-proof. It was an OS 9 contemporary.
    It took several years for OS X to catch up, but by then with the move to Intel to me MacBook became a different dress on the same hardware body. I had years invested in Windows, the hardware was more affordable, no good reason to switch. Then Apple
    started taking away ports and giving up reliability for the sake of fashion - aka Butterfly Keyboard.

    But now, well just wow. The new MacBook Pro is as amazing to me as Win 2000 was 21 years ago. The Windows laptop world cannot compete at the high end at the moment. If you just want to browse the web, keep up with email, shop and read books a $500
    Windows laptop will do that. My almost 4 year old HP is still quite serviceable. I'm going to keep it in case W11 VM on the Mac M1 goes away. I might go back to the HP and sell the Mac, then when OS 10 goes away reassess. In meantime I'll enjoy the new
    toy.

    And Windows versus Mac OS? The companies have "borrowed" so many interface ideas from each other that it's now comically easy to switch back and forth now. OS 9 vs Win 2000 21 years ago? Not so easy.

    Then too, there is the service after the sale dimension. I never appreciated that until I bought an iPad then an iPhone. I've not needed much in the way of serious device repairs over the last 30 years, but it's good to know that the Apple Store is 20
    minutes away. I'm hoping MS wakes up and makes a W11 version for ARM that includes the Apple M series.

    Happy Veteran's Day Hugh

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Thomas E. on Wed Nov 10 21:58:46 2021
    On 2021-11-10 8:16 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:36:37 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-10 8:57 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 6:47:24 AM UTC-5, -hh wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:27:19 AM UTC-5, Bob
    Campbell wrote:
    John <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed
    to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly any
    effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta
    who went by the name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he
    passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a
    guy named George Graves who was an interesting character
    who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed
    also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still
    around - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the
    others.
    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup
    earlier this week; last I checked up on him, they were doing
    okay; his blog has some nice pics of his new home & office
    layout, etc.
    Someone else posted a similar question a few weeks ago.
    Basically "Where has all the Mac Advocacy gone?"

    I'll give the same answer as I did then. There is no
    "advocacy" going on here because no one cares about Macs vs
    Windows these days. That was the Raging Debate 30 years ago.
    Essentially, the "Apple is doomed!" has been debunked for
    years, particularly from the rise of iOS & AAPL price.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android.
    With the same arguments being made. Android is "open" and
    represents "freedom" (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and
    iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a
    "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years ago).

    It is all just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows
    is for "real men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies".
    🙄
    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the
    laptop market, where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max
    CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a nice
    bump in October sales:

    "... 24% U.S. market share as of October 2021.."

    <https://macdailynews.com/2021/11/08/apple-mac-takes-24-share-of-u-s-laptop-market/>


    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows
    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first
    Mac. Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how
    far Mac has come since my first experiences with it at work
    in the nineties. Classic Mac OS sure was an embarrasment.

    Windows was just as embarrassing before Windows 2000. 3, 3.1,
    Win95 and Win98 were all based on DOS. Windows ME was a total
    POS.
    LOL, I was thinking the same thing: we pretty much think of
    everything from that era as being primitive by our current
    level of expectations.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well
    argue about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs
    ZMODEM. ARC vs ZIP. Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world
    has moved on.
    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go
    through his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing
    of some iMac Pro rumors that might tempt me to get a new
    desktop seen...


    -hh

    Note that as soon as Apple made a laptop with incredible speed, a
    good set of ports, and a durable keyboard I bought one. In fact,
    I bought it about a week after it was announced. I walked into
    the Apple Store expecting a 2-4 week wait. While I was talking to
    the sales person I saw a customer receive a new MacBook. I walked
    out with one too. Why is that so remarkable?

    Trust Apple to brag about solving problems they created with
    taking away ports and selling a POS keyboard. LOL. The Apple site
    is showing no availability at the local store and Dec 3-10 for
    delivery of my specs. I'm far from the only one delighted with
    Apple's solution to their self-created problems.

    Now if Alan Baker would just admit that Apple makes boneheaded
    mistakes (batterygate, butterfly, missing ports, fragile cables,
    etc. all denied) all would be in harmony in my Universe.

    I've never denied that Apple makes mistakes, Liarboy.

    I did not say you had denied,

    That is precisely what you just said, Idiot.

    "all denied"

    you to my knowledge never admitted. Not the same thing Liarboy. You
    have defended and continue to defend Apple criticism. Please cite a
    instances where you stated that Apple was in the wrong.

    No, Idiot.

    It's your claim that I've denied that Apple has made mistakes.

    YOU give an example of this.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From -hh@21:1/5 to Thomas E. on Thu Nov 11 03:57:38 2021
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 11:49:55 PM UTC-5, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 6:47:24 AM UTC-5, -hh wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:27:19 AM UTC-5, Bob Campbell wrote:
    John <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be a Mac
    advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young age of 55.
    There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting character who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.
    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup earlier this week;
    last I checked up on him, they were doing okay; his blog has some nice pics of
    his new home & office layout, etc.
    Someone else posted a similar question a few weeks ago. Basically "Where has all the Mac Advocacy gone?"

    I'll give the same answer as I did then. There is no "advocacy" going on here because no one cares about Macs vs Windows these days. That was the Raging Debate 30 years ago.
    Essentially, the "Apple is doomed!" has been debunked for years, particularly
    from the rise of iOS & AAPL price.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android. With the same arguments being made. Android is "open" and represents "freedom" (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years
    ago).

    It is all just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for "real men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄
    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the laptop market,
    where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a nice bump in October sales:

    "... 24% U.S. market share as of October 2021.."

    <https://macdailynews.com/2021/11/08/apple-mac-takes-24-share-of-u-s-laptop-market/>
    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows
    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac has come since my first experiences with it at work in the nineties. Classic Mac
    OS sure was an embarrasment.

    Windows was just as embarrassing before Windows 2000. 3, 3.1, Win95 and Win98 were all based on DOS. Windows ME was a total POS.
    LOL, I was thinking the same thing: we pretty much think of everything from
    that era as being primitive by our current level of expectations.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM. ARC vs ZIP.
    Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved on.

    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go through
    his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of some iMac Pro rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop seen...


    Yep, Mac OS prior to OS X was junk.

    IME, that's a pretty harsh claim, as it isn't providing much balance in context to just
    how limited things in that era were.

    No memory management to speak of, terrible multitasking, crash prone, ...

    Apple did have some elements where they had been backed into a corner, but I always
    found that many of the complaints were exaggerated "fanboy" biased attacks. For
    example, Multitasker was attacked for being "cooperative", but for its day (1987; with
    OS 5) on RAM-limited computers at the Mac's price point, it was a breakthrough, shipping
    nearly a decade earlier than Microsoft's Win95 even though it wasn't the "preemptive"
    that the purists claimed they wanted: it was a significant productivity enhancement.

    Regarding crashes, these were often because of too many extensions, which prompted
    the Extension Manager (and even a joke Extension which only loaded a ton of Extension
    Icons to make your coworkers jealous). Meantime, Windows was in "DLL Hell".

    it was arguably as bad as Windows 98 SE or ME.

    Sounds like you're mostly trying to compare OS 9, rather than any of the prior ~15 years
    worth of matchups. Its worth noting how Windows users were often so "clingy" to certain
    OS revisions, often refused to let go for years & despite attempts by MS to force upgrades
    (see XP), it is clear that the grass wasn't really all that greener on the Windows side.

    Windows 2000 was a revelation. Blew me away! Pretty much bullet-proof. It was an OS 9 contemporary.

    A vast improvement but not really a contemporary to OS 9 per se, for just as how Apple was
    going through a very public transition from Classical OS to OS X, Microsoft was more quietly
    doing the same, by taking their commercial grade OS of NT and working to "consumerize" it.
    As such, you're trying to compare a commercial grade product to a consumer grade one.

    Even so, while MS's NT conversion did well for business PCs, home PC users got shafted pretty
    thoroughly: there were a ton of howls of complaints because the NT architecture broke a lot
    of their PC hardware accessories because the legacy drivers were incompatible, and PC
    manufacturers weren't writing new NT drivers for old hardware.

    It took several years for OS X to catch up, but by then with the move to Intel to me MacBook
    became a different dress on the same hardware body. I had years invested in Windows, the
    hardware was more affordable, no good reason to switch. Then Apple started taking away
    ports and giving up reliability for the sake of fashion - aka Butterfly Keyboard.

    I was using both Mac & Windows through this era, although I skipped over the initial rollout of
    OS X; jumped in at 10.2 or 10.3 ; by the point, it was IMO already quite comparable to XP.
    And we've already talked at length of how Ive went downhill after Jobs, probably from Tim
    pushing ever harder for manufacturing economies.


    But now, well just wow. The new MacBook Pro is as amazing to me as Win 2000 was 21 years
    ago. The Windows laptop world cannot compete at the high end at the moment.

    It will be interesting to watch how MS response to the Apple ARM chip, particularly since they've
    been dabbling for years (remember Windows CE?)

    If you just want to browse the web, keep up with email, shop and read books a $500 Windows laptop will do that.

    As well as a $300 iPad.

    My almost 4 year old HP is still quite serviceable. I'm going to keep it in case W11 VM on
    the Mac M1 goes away. I might go back to the HP and sell the Mac, then when OS 10 goes
    away reassess. In meantime I'll enjoy the new toy.

    So long as there's no monthly software rental fee, one may as well. At least old laptops take up
    less space than old desktops. I recently pulled out & used a 2008 MacBook Pro; was kind of
    amazed that the battery took a charge. Main problem it had was that its browser wasn't compatible
    with many websites because of "https" security requirements.


    And Windows versus Mac OS? The companies have "borrowed" so many interface ideas from each
    other that it's now comically easy to switch back and forth now. OS 9 vs Win 2000 21 years ago? Not so easy.

    Its always been comparable to different brands of cars, with slightly different controls layouts.


    Then too, there is the service after the sale dimension. I never appreciated that until I bought
    an iPad then an iPhone. I've not needed much in the way of serious device repairs over the last
    30 years, but it's good to know that the Apple Store is 20 minutes away.

    Which is worth something. Its surprising how often people forget about lifecycle management.

    I'm hoping MS wakes up and makes a W11 version for ARM that includes the Apple M series.

    Considering how much they've dabbled with CE over the years, they clearly know about how
    there's that hardware factor. Comes down to the question of if they see the PC market start
    to shift more away from Intel to make more of a compelling business case to make it official.


    Happy Veteran's Day Hugh

    Yes, it is a day for remembrance; we'll be running up our flag from the USS Arizona this morning
    for those who will not grow old.


    -hh

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to John on Thu Nov 11 13:47:19 2021
    On 2021-11-11 1:33 p.m., John wrote:
    On 11/10/2021 8:49 PM, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 6:47:24 AM UTC-5, -hh wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:27:19 AM UTC-5, Bob Campbell
    wrote:
    John <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be a
    Mac
    advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was
    performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I
    recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young age of
    55.
    There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting character >>>>> who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also. There was >>>>> Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any real >>>>> advocacy. Cannot remember the others.
    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup
    earlier this week;
    last I checked up on him, they were doing okay; his blog has some
    nice pics of
    his new home & office layout, etc.
    Someone else posted a similar question a few weeks ago. Basically
    "Where
    has all the Mac Advocacy gone?"

    I'll give the same answer as I did then. There is no "advocacy"
    going on
    here because no one cares about Macs vs Windows these days. That was
    the
    Raging Debate 30 years ago.
    Essentially, the "Apple is doomed!" has been debunked for years,
    particularly
    from the rise of iOS & AAPL price.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android. With the >>>> same arguments being made. Android is "open" and represents "freedom"
    (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and iOS/iPadOS is the choice for
    "lemmings" who want to make a "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30
    years
    ago).

    It is all just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for
    "real
    men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄
    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the
    laptop market,
    where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has
    apparently given them a nice bump in October sales:

    "... 24% U.S. market share as of October 2021.."

    <https://macdailynews.com/2021/11/08/apple-mac-takes-24-share-of-u-s-laptop-market/>

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a
    Windows
    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. Ever >>>>> since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac has come
    since my first experiences with it at work in the nineties. Classic
    Mac
    OS sure was an embarrasment.

    Windows was just as embarrassing before Windows 2000. 3, 3.1, Win95 and >>>> Win98 were all based on DOS. Windows ME was a total POS.
    LOL, I was thinking the same thing: we pretty much think of
    everything from
    that era as being primitive by our current level of expectations.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue about
    VHS
    vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM. ARC vs ZIP.
    Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved on.
    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go through
    his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of some iMac Pro
    rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop seen...


    -hh

    Yep, Mac OS prior to OS X was junk. No memory management to speak of,
    terrible multitasking, crash prone, it was arguably as bad as Windows
    98 SE or ME. Windows 2000 was a revelation. Blew me away! Pretty much
    bullet-proof. It was an OS 9 contemporary. It took several years for
    OS X to catch up, but by then with the move to Intel to me MacBook
    became a different dress on the same hardware body. I had years
    invested in Windows, the hardware was more affordable, no good reason
    to switch. Then Apple started taking away ports and giving up
    reliability for the sake of fashion - aka Butterfly Keyboard.

    But now, well just wow. The new MacBook Pro is as amazing to me as Win
    2000 was 21 years ago. The Windows laptop world cannot compete at the
    high end at the moment. If you just want to browse the web, keep up
    with email, shop and read books a $500 Windows laptop will do that. My
    almost 4 year old HP is still quite serviceable. I'm going to keep it
    in case W11 VM on the Mac M1 goes away. I might go back to the HP and
    sell the Mac, then when OS 10 goes away reassess. In meantime I'll
    enjoy the new toy.

    And Windows versus Mac OS? The companies have "borrowed" so many
    interface ideas from each other that it's now comically easy to switch
    back and forth now. OS 9 vs Win 2000 21 years ago? Not so easy.

    Then too, there is the service after the sale dimension. I never
    appreciated that until I bought an iPad then an iPhone. I've not
    needed much in the way of serious device repairs over the last 30
    years, but it's good to know that the Apple Store is 20 minutes away.
    I'm hoping MS wakes up and makes a W11 version for ARM that includes
    the Apple M series.

    Happy Veteran's Day Hugh



    I must say you have become quite the Apple fanboy Tom.  In spite of
    Alans "advocacy"

    I'm still not convinced that this isn't all just a ploy...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John@21:1/5 to Thomas E. on Thu Nov 11 13:33:15 2021
    On 11/10/2021 8:49 PM, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 6:47:24 AM UTC-5, -hh wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:27:19 AM UTC-5, Bob Campbell wrote: >>> John <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be a Mac >>>> advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was
    performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I
    recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. >>>> There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting character
    who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also. There was >>>> Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any real >>>> advocacy. Cannot remember the others.
    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup earlier this week;
    last I checked up on him, they were doing okay; his blog has some nice pics of
    his new home & office layout, etc.
    Someone else posted a similar question a few weeks ago. Basically "Where >>> has all the Mac Advocacy gone?"

    I'll give the same answer as I did then. There is no "advocacy" going on >>> here because no one cares about Macs vs Windows these days. That was the >>> Raging Debate 30 years ago.
    Essentially, the "Apple is doomed!" has been debunked for years, particularly
    from the rise of iOS & AAPL price.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android. With the
    same arguments being made. Android is "open" and represents "freedom"
    (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and iOS/iPadOS is the choice for
    "lemmings" who want to make a "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years >>> ago).

    It is all just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for "real >>> men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄
    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the laptop market,
    where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has
    apparently given them a nice bump in October sales:

    "... 24% U.S. market share as of October 2021.."

    <https://macdailynews.com/2021/11/08/apple-mac-takes-24-share-of-u-s-laptop-market/>
    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows >>>> XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. Ever
    since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac has come
    since my first experiences with it at work in the nineties. Classic Mac >>>> OS sure was an embarrasment.

    Windows was just as embarrassing before Windows 2000. 3, 3.1, Win95 and
    Win98 were all based on DOS. Windows ME was a total POS.
    LOL, I was thinking the same thing: we pretty much think of everything from >> that era as being primitive by our current level of expectations.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue about VHS >>> vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM. ARC vs ZIP.
    Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved on.
    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go through
    his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of some iMac Pro
    rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop seen...


    -hh

    Yep, Mac OS prior to OS X was junk. No memory management to speak of, terrible multitasking, crash prone, it was arguably as bad as Windows 98 SE or ME. Windows 2000 was a revelation. Blew me away! Pretty much bullet-proof. It was an OS 9 contemporary.
    It took several years for OS X to catch up, but by then with the move to Intel to me MacBook became a different dress on the same hardware body. I had years invested in Windows, the hardware was more affordable, no good reason to switch. Then Apple
    started taking away ports and giving up reliability for the sake of fashion - aka Butterfly Keyboard.

    But now, well just wow. The new MacBook Pro is as amazing to me as Win 2000 was 21 years ago. The Windows laptop world cannot compete at the high end at the moment. If you just want to browse the web, keep up with email, shop and read books a $500
    Windows laptop will do that. My almost 4 year old HP is still quite serviceable. I'm going to keep it in case W11 VM on the Mac M1 goes away. I might go back to the HP and sell the Mac, then when OS 10 goes away reassess. In meantime I'll enjoy the new
    toy.

    And Windows versus Mac OS? The companies have "borrowed" so many interface ideas from each other that it's now comically easy to switch back and forth now. OS 9 vs Win 2000 21 years ago? Not so easy.

    Then too, there is the service after the sale dimension. I never appreciated that until I bought an iPad then an iPhone. I've not needed much in the way of serious device repairs over the last 30 years, but it's good to know that the Apple Store is 20
    minutes away. I'm hoping MS wakes up and makes a W11 version for ARM that includes the Apple M series.

    Happy Veteran's Day Hugh



    I must say you have become quite the Apple fanboy Tom. In spite of
    Alans "advocacy"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Alan on Thu Nov 11 13:51:44 2021
    On 2021-11-11 1:47 p.m., Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-11 1:33 p.m., John wrote:
    On 11/10/2021 8:49 PM, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 6:47:24 AM UTC-5, -hh wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:27:19 AM UTC-5, Bob Campbell
    wrote:
    John <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be
    a Mac
    advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was
    performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I >>>>>> recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young age
    of 55.
    There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting character >>>>>> who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also. There >>>>>> was
    Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any
    real
    advocacy. Cannot remember the others.
    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup
    earlier this week;
    last I checked up on him, they were doing okay; his blog has some
    nice pics of
    his new home & office layout, etc.
    Someone else posted a similar question a few weeks ago. Basically
    "Where
    has all the Mac Advocacy gone?"

    I'll give the same answer as I did then. There is no "advocacy"
    going on
    here because no one cares about Macs vs Windows these days. That
    was the
    Raging Debate 30 years ago.
    Essentially, the "Apple is doomed!" has been debunked for years,
    particularly
    from the rise of iOS & AAPL price.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android. With the >>>>> same arguments being made. Android is "open" and represents "freedom" >>>>> (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and iOS/iPadOS is the choice for >>>>> "lemmings" who want to make a "fashion statement" (just like Macs
    30 years
    ago).

    It is all just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for
    "real
    men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄
    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the
    laptop market,
    where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has >>>> apparently given them a nice bump in October sales:

    "... 24% U.S. market share as of October 2021.."

    <https://macdailynews.com/2021/11/08/apple-mac-takes-24-share-of-u-s-laptop-market/>

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a
    Windows
    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. Ever >>>>>> since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac has come >>>>>> since my first experiences with it at work in the nineties.
    Classic Mac
    OS sure was an embarrasment.

    Windows was just as embarrassing before Windows 2000. 3, 3.1, Win95
    and
    Win98 were all based on DOS. Windows ME was a total POS.
    LOL, I was thinking the same thing: we pretty much think of
    everything from
    that era as being primitive by our current level of expectations.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue
    about VHS
    vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM. ARC vs ZIP.
    Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved on.
    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go through
    his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of some iMac Pro >>>> rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop seen...


    -hh

    Yep, Mac OS prior to OS X was junk. No memory management to speak of,
    terrible multitasking, crash prone, it was arguably as bad as Windows
    98 SE or ME. Windows 2000 was a revelation. Blew me away! Pretty much
    bullet-proof. It was an OS 9 contemporary. It took several years for
    OS X to catch up, but by then with the move to Intel to me MacBook
    became a different dress on the same hardware body. I had years
    invested in Windows, the hardware was more affordable, no good reason
    to switch. Then Apple started taking away ports and giving up
    reliability for the sake of fashion - aka Butterfly Keyboard.

    But now, well just wow. The new MacBook Pro is as amazing to me as
    Win 2000 was 21 years ago. The Windows laptop world cannot compete at
    the high end at the moment. If you just want to browse the web, keep
    up with email, shop and read books a $500 Windows laptop will do
    that. My almost 4 year old HP is still quite serviceable. I'm going
    to keep it in case W11 VM on the Mac M1 goes away. I might go back to
    the HP and sell the Mac, then when OS 10 goes away reassess. In
    meantime I'll enjoy the new toy.

    And Windows versus Mac OS? The companies have "borrowed" so many
    interface ideas from each other that it's now comically easy to
    switch back and forth now. OS 9 vs Win 2000 21 years ago? Not so easy.

    Then too, there is the service after the sale dimension. I never
    appreciated that until I bought an iPad then an iPhone. I've not
    needed much in the way of serious device repairs over the last 30
    years, but it's good to know that the Apple Store is 20 minutes away.
    I'm hoping MS wakes up and makes a W11 version for ARM that includes
    the Apple M series.

    Happy Veteran's Day Hugh



    I must say you have become quite the Apple fanboy Tom.  In spite of
    Alans "advocacy"

    I'm still not convinced that this isn't all just a ploy...

    ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas E.@21:1/5 to -hh on Thu Nov 11 14:44:52 2021
    On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 6:57:40 AM UTC-5, -hh wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 11:49:55 PM UTC-5, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 6:47:24 AM UTC-5, -hh wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:27:19 AM UTC-5, Bob Campbell wrote:
    John <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be a Mac
    advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young age of 55.
    There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting character who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also. There was
    Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any real
    advocacy. Cannot remember the others.
    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup earlier this week;
    last I checked up on him, they were doing okay; his blog has some nice pics of
    his new home & office layout, etc.
    Someone else posted a similar question a few weeks ago. Basically "Where
    has all the Mac Advocacy gone?"

    I'll give the same answer as I did then. There is no "advocacy" going on
    here because no one cares about Macs vs Windows these days. That was the
    Raging Debate 30 years ago.
    Essentially, the "Apple is doomed!" has been debunked for years, particularly
    from the rise of iOS & AAPL price.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android. With the same arguments being made. Android is "open" and represents "freedom" (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years
    ago).

    It is all just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for "real
    men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄
    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the laptop market,
    where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a nice bump in October sales:

    "... 24% U.S. market share as of October 2021.."

    <https://macdailynews.com/2021/11/08/apple-mac-takes-24-share-of-u-s-laptop-market/>
    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows
    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac has come since my first experiences with it at work in the nineties. Classic Mac
    OS sure was an embarrasment.

    Windows was just as embarrassing before Windows 2000. 3, 3.1, Win95 and
    Win98 were all based on DOS. Windows ME was a total POS.
    LOL, I was thinking the same thing: we pretty much think of everything from
    that era as being primitive by our current level of expectations.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue about VHS
    vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM. ARC vs ZIP.
    Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved on.

    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go through
    his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of some iMac Pro rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop seen...


    Yep, Mac OS prior to OS X was junk.
    IME, that's a pretty harsh claim, as it isn't providing much balance in context to just
    how limited things in that era were.

    No memory management to speak of, terrible multitasking, crash prone, ...

    Apple did have some elements where they had been backed into a corner, but I always
    found that many of the complaints were exaggerated "fanboy" biased attacks. For
    example, Multitasker was attacked for being "cooperative", but for its day (1987; with
    OS 5) on RAM-limited computers at the Mac's price point, it was a breakthrough, shipping
    nearly a decade earlier than Microsoft's Win95 even though it wasn't the "preemptive"
    that the purists claimed they wanted: it was a significant productivity enhancement.

    Regarding crashes, these were often because of too many extensions, which prompted
    the Extension Manager (and even a joke Extension which only loaded a ton of Extension
    Icons to make your coworkers jealous). Meantime, Windows was in "DLL Hell".
    it was arguably as bad as Windows 98 SE or ME.
    Sounds like you're mostly trying to compare OS 9, rather than any of the prior ~15 years
    worth of matchups. Its worth noting how Windows users were often so "clingy" to certain
    OS revisions, often refused to let go for years & despite attempts by MS to force upgrades
    (see XP), it is clear that the grass wasn't really all that greener on the Windows side.
    Windows 2000 was a revelation. Blew me away! Pretty much bullet-proof. It was an OS 9 contemporary.
    A vast improvement but not really a contemporary to OS 9 per se, for just as how Apple was
    going through a very public transition from Classical OS to OS X, Microsoft was more quietly
    doing the same, by taking their commercial grade OS of NT and working to "consumerize" it.
    As such, you're trying to compare a commercial grade product to a consumer grade one.

    Even so, while MS's NT conversion did well for business PCs, home PC users got shafted pretty
    thoroughly: there were a ton of howls of complaints because the NT architecture broke a lot
    of their PC hardware accessories because the legacy drivers were incompatible, and PC
    manufacturers weren't writing new NT drivers for old hardware.
    It took several years for OS X to catch up, but by then with the move to Intel to me MacBook
    became a different dress on the same hardware body. I had years invested in Windows, the
    hardware was more affordable, no good reason to switch. Then Apple started taking away
    ports and giving up reliability for the sake of fashion - aka Butterfly Keyboard.
    I was using both Mac & Windows through this era, although I skipped over the initial rollout of
    OS X; jumped in at 10.2 or 10.3 ; by the point, it was IMO already quite comparable to XP.
    And we've already talked at length of how Ive went downhill after Jobs, probably from Tim
    pushing ever harder for manufacturing economies.

    But now, well just wow. The new MacBook Pro is as amazing to me as Win 2000 was 21 years
    ago. The Windows laptop world cannot compete at the high end at the moment.
    It will be interesting to watch how MS response to the Apple ARM chip, particularly since they've
    been dabbling for years (remember Windows CE?)
    If you just want to browse the web, keep up with email, shop and read books a $500 Windows laptop will do that.
    As well as a $300 iPad.
    My almost 4 year old HP is still quite serviceable. I'm going to keep it in case W11 VM on
    the Mac M1 goes away. I might go back to the HP and sell the Mac, then when OS 10 goes
    away reassess. In meantime I'll enjoy the new toy.
    So long as there's no monthly software rental fee, one may as well. At least old laptops take up
    less space than old desktops. I recently pulled out & used a 2008 MacBook Pro; was kind of
    amazed that the battery took a charge. Main problem it had was that its browser wasn't compatible
    with many websites because of "https" security requirements.

    And Windows versus Mac OS? The companies have "borrowed" so many interface ideas from each
    other that it's now comically easy to switch back and forth now. OS 9 vs Win 2000 21 years ago? Not so easy.
    Its always been comparable to different brands of cars, with slightly different controls layouts.

    Then too, there is the service after the sale dimension. I never appreciated that until I bought
    an iPad then an iPhone. I've not needed much in the way of serious device repairs over the last
    30 years, but it's good to know that the Apple Store is 20 minutes away.
    Which is worth something. Its surprising how often people forget about lifecycle management.
    I'm hoping MS wakes up and makes a W11 version for ARM that includes the Apple M series.
    Considering how much they've dabbled with CE over the years, they clearly know about how
    there's that hardware factor. Comes down to the question of if they see the PC market start
    to shift more away from Intel to make more of a compelling business case to make it official.
    Happy Veteran's Day Hugh
    Yes, it is a day for remembrance; we'll be running up our flag from the USS Arizona this morning
    for those who will not grow old.


    -hh

    I got my OS 9 machine after Win 2000 on a new HP laptop. There was NO comparison. I could barely load 3 or 4 apps in OS 9 before it ran out of RAM. Windows 2000 would load everything I had and keep trucking along. It was light years ahead of Mac OS. XP
    came out in late 2001 and was also stable from the get-go. Yes it broke a few things, but so did OS X vs. OS 9 and then the transition to Intel broke more.

    You are right, after Windows 7 things started going downhill for a while until V.10. There are advantages to being #2.

    I hope you are right about Microsoft seeing the laptop CPU trajectory. With Intel intending to build foundry fabs it should be crystal clear. There is nothing to prevent Windows-centric manufacturers from imitating Apple and getting into the chip design
    business. TSMC is prototyping a 3 nm process for Apple. We have not seen anything yet. Moore's Law is still alive and well in the world of throughput, if not CPU speed. The locus of innovation has moved.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Thomas E. on Thu Nov 11 15:13:29 2021
    On 2021-11-11 2:44 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 6:57:40 AM UTC-5, -hh wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 11:49:55 PM UTC-5, Thomas E.
    wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 6:47:24 AM UTC-5, -hh wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:27:19 AM UTC-5, Bob
    Campbell wrote:
    John <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed
    to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly any
    effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta
    who went by the name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he
    passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a
    guy named George Graves who was an interesting character
    who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed
    also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still
    around - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the
    others.
    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup
    earlier this week; last I checked up on him, they were doing
    okay; his blog has some nice pics of his new home & office
    layout, etc.
    Someone else posted a similar question a few weeks ago.
    Basically "Where has all the Mac Advocacy gone?"

    I'll give the same answer as I did then. There is no
    "advocacy" going on here because no one cares about Macs vs
    Windows these days. That was the Raging Debate 30 years ago.
    Essentially, the "Apple is doomed!" has been debunked for
    years, particularly from the rise of iOS & AAPL price.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android.
    With the same arguments being made. Android is "open" and
    represents "freedom" (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and
    iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a
    "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years ago).

    It is all just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows
    is for "real men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies".
    🙄
    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the
    laptop market, where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max
    CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a nice
    bump in October sales:

    "... 24% U.S. market share as of October 2021.."

    <https://macdailynews.com/2021/11/08/apple-mac-takes-24-share-of-u-s-laptop-market/>


    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows
    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first
    Mac. Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how
    far Mac has come since my first experiences with it at work
    in the nineties. Classic Mac OS sure was an embarrasment.

    Windows was just as embarrassing before Windows 2000. 3, 3.1,
    Win95 and Win98 were all based on DOS. Windows ME was a total
    POS.
    LOL, I was thinking the same thing: we pretty much think of
    everything from that era as being primitive by our current
    level of expectations.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well
    argue about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs
    ZMODEM. ARC vs ZIP. Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world
    has moved on.

    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go
    through his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing
    of some iMac Pro rumors that might tempt me to get a new
    desktop seen...


    Yep, Mac OS prior to OS X was junk.
    IME, that's a pretty harsh claim, as it isn't providing much
    balance in context to just how limited things in that era were.

    No memory management to speak of, terrible multitasking, crash
    prone, ...

    Apple did have some elements where they had been backed into a
    corner, but I always found that many of the complaints were
    exaggerated "fanboy" biased attacks. For example, Multitasker was
    attacked for being "cooperative", but for its day (1987; with OS 5)
    on RAM-limited computers at the Mac's price point, it was a
    breakthrough, shipping nearly a decade earlier than Microsoft's
    Win95 even though it wasn't the "preemptive" that the purists
    claimed they wanted: it was a significant productivity
    enhancement.

    Regarding crashes, these were often because of too many extensions,
    which prompted the Extension Manager (and even a joke Extension
    which only loaded a ton of Extension Icons to make your coworkers
    jealous). Meantime, Windows was in "DLL Hell".
    it was arguably as bad as Windows 98 SE or ME.
    Sounds like you're mostly trying to compare OS 9, rather than any
    of the prior ~15 years worth of matchups. Its worth noting how
    Windows users were often so "clingy" to certain OS revisions, often
    refused to let go for years & despite attempts by MS to force
    upgrades (see XP), it is clear that the grass wasn't really all
    that greener on the Windows side.
    Windows 2000 was a revelation. Blew me away! Pretty much
    bullet-proof. It was an OS 9 contemporary.
    A vast improvement but not really a contemporary to OS 9 per se,
    for just as how Apple was going through a very public transition
    from Classical OS to OS X, Microsoft was more quietly doing the
    same, by taking their commercial grade OS of NT and working to
    "consumerize" it. As such, you're trying to compare a commercial
    grade product to a consumer grade one.

    Even so, while MS's NT conversion did well for business PCs, home
    PC users got shafted pretty thoroughly: there were a ton of howls
    of complaints because the NT architecture broke a lot of their PC
    hardware accessories because the legacy drivers were incompatible,
    and PC manufacturers weren't writing new NT drivers for old
    hardware.
    It took several years for OS X to catch up, but by then with the
    move to Intel to me MacBook became a different dress on the same
    hardware body. I had years invested in Windows, the hardware was
    more affordable, no good reason to switch. Then Apple started
    taking away ports and giving up reliability for the sake of
    fashion - aka Butterfly Keyboard.
    I was using both Mac & Windows through this era, although I skipped
    over the initial rollout of OS X; jumped in at 10.2 or 10.3 ; by
    the point, it was IMO already quite comparable to XP. And we've
    already talked at length of how Ive went downhill after Jobs,
    probably from Tim pushing ever harder for manufacturing economies.

    But now, well just wow. The new MacBook Pro is as amazing to me
    as Win 2000 was 21 years ago. The Windows laptop world cannot
    compete at the high end at the moment.
    It will be interesting to watch how MS response to the Apple ARM
    chip, particularly since they've been dabbling for years (remember
    Windows CE?)
    If you just want to browse the web, keep up with email, shop and
    read books a $500 Windows laptop will do that.
    As well as a $300 iPad.
    My almost 4 year old HP is still quite serviceable. I'm going to
    keep it in case W11 VM on the Mac M1 goes away. I might go back
    to the HP and sell the Mac, then when OS 10 goes away reassess.
    In meantime I'll enjoy the new toy.
    So long as there's no monthly software rental fee, one may as well.
    At least old laptops take up less space than old desktops. I
    recently pulled out & used a 2008 MacBook Pro; was kind of amazed
    that the battery took a charge. Main problem it had was that its
    browser wasn't compatible with many websites because of "https"
    security requirements.

    And Windows versus Mac OS? The companies have "borrowed" so many
    interface ideas from each other that it's now comically easy to
    switch back and forth now. OS 9 vs Win 2000 21 years ago? Not so
    easy.
    Its always been comparable to different brands of cars, with
    slightly different controls layouts.

    Then too, there is the service after the sale dimension. I never
    appreciated that until I bought an iPad then an iPhone. I've not
    needed much in the way of serious device repairs over the last 30
    years, but it's good to know that the Apple Store is 20 minutes
    away.
    Which is worth something. Its surprising how often people forget
    about lifecycle management.
    I'm hoping MS wakes up and makes a W11 version for ARM that
    includes the Apple M series.
    Considering how much they've dabbled with CE over the years, they
    clearly know about how there's that hardware factor. Comes down to
    the question of if they see the PC market start to shift more away
    from Intel to make more of a compelling business case to make it
    official.
    Happy Veteran's Day Hugh
    Yes, it is a day for remembrance; we'll be running up our flag from
    the USS Arizona this morning for those who will not grow old.


    -hh

    I got my OS 9 machine after Win 2000 on a new HP laptop. There was NO comparison. I could barely load 3 or 4 apps in OS 9 before it ran out
    of RAM. Windows 2000 would load everything I had and keep trucking
    along. It was light years ahead of Mac OS. XP came out in late 2001
    and was also stable from the get-go. Yes it broke a few things, but
    so did OS X vs. OS 9 and then the transition to Intel broke more.

    And the two machines: how much RAM did each have?


    You are right, after Windows 7 things started going downhill for a
    while until V.10. There are advantages to being #2.

    You understate: things got catastrophic for a while.

    That's why you can chart a large uptick in Mac usage to the time of
    Windows 8.


    I hope you are right about Microsoft seeing the laptop CPU
    trajectory. With Intel intending to build foundry fabs it should be
    crystal clear. There is nothing to prevent Windows-centric
    manufacturers from imitating Apple and getting into the chip design
    business. TSMC is prototyping a 3 nm process for Apple. We have not
    seen anything yet. Moore's Law is still alive and well in the world
    of throughput, if not CPU speed. The locus of innovation has moved.

    In theory, there's nothing to prevent them.

    In practice, it's not a simple matter to start designing CPUs.

    As for the last part of your paragraph...

    ...what the hell do you even mean?

    What is "throughput" in contrast to "CPU speed"?

    What is this "locus" and how and where has it moved?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas E.@21:1/5 to Alan on Thu Nov 11 15:23:56 2021
    On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 12:58:49 AM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-10 8:16 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:36:37 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-10 8:57 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 6:47:24 AM UTC-5, -hh wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:27:19 AM UTC-5, Bob
    Campbell wrote:
    John <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed
    to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly any
    effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta
    who went by the name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he
    passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a
    guy named George Graves who was an interesting character
    who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed
    also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still
    around - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the
    others.
    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup
    earlier this week; last I checked up on him, they were doing
    okay; his blog has some nice pics of his new home & office
    layout, etc.
    Someone else posted a similar question a few weeks ago.
    Basically "Where has all the Mac Advocacy gone?"

    I'll give the same answer as I did then. There is no
    "advocacy" going on here because no one cares about Macs vs
    Windows these days. That was the Raging Debate 30 years ago.
    Essentially, the "Apple is doomed!" has been debunked for
    years, particularly from the rise of iOS & AAPL price.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android.
    With the same arguments being made. Android is "open" and
    represents "freedom" (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and
    iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a
    "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years ago).

    It is all just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows
    is for "real men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies".
    🙄
    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the
    laptop market, where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max
    CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a nice
    bump in October sales:

    "... 24% U.S. market share as of October 2021.."

    <https://macdailynews.com/2021/11/08/apple-mac-takes-24-share-of-u-s-laptop-market/>


    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows >>>>>> XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first
    Mac. Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how
    far Mac has come since my first experiences with it at work
    in the nineties. Classic Mac OS sure was an embarrasment.

    Windows was just as embarrassing before Windows 2000. 3, 3.1,
    Win95 and Win98 were all based on DOS. Windows ME was a total
    POS.
    LOL, I was thinking the same thing: we pretty much think of
    everything from that era as being primitive by our current
    level of expectations.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well
    argue about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs
    ZMODEM. ARC vs ZIP. Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world
    has moved on.
    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go
    through his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing
    of some iMac Pro rumors that might tempt me to get a new
    desktop seen...


    -hh

    Note that as soon as Apple made a laptop with incredible speed, a
    good set of ports, and a durable keyboard I bought one. In fact,
    I bought it about a week after it was announced. I walked into
    the Apple Store expecting a 2-4 week wait. While I was talking to
    the sales person I saw a customer receive a new MacBook. I walked
    out with one too. Why is that so remarkable?

    Trust Apple to brag about solving problems they created with
    taking away ports and selling a POS keyboard. LOL. The Apple site
    is showing no availability at the local store and Dec 3-10 for
    delivery of my specs. I'm far from the only one delighted with
    Apple's solution to their self-created problems.

    Now if Alan Baker would just admit that Apple makes boneheaded
    mistakes (batterygate, butterfly, missing ports, fragile cables,
    etc. all denied) all would be in harmony in my Universe.

    I've never denied that Apple makes mistakes, Liarboy.

    I did not say you had denied,
    That is precisely what you just said, Idiot.

    "all denied"
    you to my knowledge never admitted. Not the same thing Liarboy. You
    have defended and continue to defend Apple criticism. Please cite a instances where you stated that Apple was in the wrong.
    No, Idiot.

    It's your claim that I've denied that Apple has made mistakes.

    YOU give an example of this.

    Oh come on Alan. Think back to iPhone 6 battery issues. You claimed that Apple was acting in good faith when it put CPU throttling in iOS without telling anyone.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Thomas E. on Thu Nov 11 15:31:05 2021
    On 2021-11-11 3:23 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 12:58:49 AM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-10 8:16 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:36:37 PM UTC-5, Alan
    wrote:
    On 2021-11-10 8:57 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 6:47:24 AM UTC-5, -hh
    wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:27:19 AM UTC-5, Bob
    Campbell wrote:
    John <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was
    supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time
    hardly any effective advocacy was performed. I remember
    Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I recall.
    Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young
    age of 55. There was a guy named George Graves who was
    an interesting character who was into high end audio.
    Think he must have passed also. There was Sandman(hope
    he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any
    real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.
    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another
    newsgroup earlier this week; last I checked up on him, they
    were doing okay; his blog has some nice pics of his new
    home & office layout, etc.
    Someone else posted a similar question a few weeks ago.
    Basically "Where has all the Mac Advocacy gone?"

    I'll give the same answer as I did then. There is no
    "advocacy" going on here because no one cares about Macs
    vs Windows these days. That was the Raging Debate 30
    years ago.
    Essentially, the "Apple is doomed!" has been debunked for
    years, particularly from the rise of iOS & AAPL price.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and
    Android. With the same arguments being made. Android is
    "open" and represents "freedom" (just like Windows did 30
    years ago) and iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings"
    who want to make a "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30
    years ago).

    It is all just as silly and stupid as ever.
    Android/Windows is for "real men" and anything from Apple
    is for "kiddies". 🙄
    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on
    the laptop market, where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max
    CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a
    nice bump in October sales:

    "... 24% U.S. market share as of October 2021.."

    <https://macdailynews.com/2021/11/08/apple-mac-takes-24-share-of-u-s-laptop-market/>




    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows >>>>>>>> XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my
    first Mac. Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing
    about how far Mac has come since my first experiences
    with it at work in the nineties. Classic Mac OS sure
    was an embarrasment.

    Windows was just as embarrassing before Windows 2000. 3,
    3.1, Win95 and Win98 were all based on DOS. Windows ME
    was a total POS.
    LOL, I was thinking the same thing: we pretty much think
    of everything from that era as being primitive by our
    current level of expectations.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well
    argue about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM
    vs ZMODEM. ARC vs ZIP. Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The
    world has moved on.
    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go
    through his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm
    hearing of some iMac Pro rumors that might tempt me to get
    a new desktop seen...


    -hh

    Note that as soon as Apple made a laptop with incredible
    speed, a good set of ports, and a durable keyboard I bought
    one. In fact, I bought it about a week after it was
    announced. I walked into the Apple Store expecting a 2-4 week
    wait. While I was talking to the sales person I saw a
    customer receive a new MacBook. I walked out with one too.
    Why is that so remarkable?

    Trust Apple to brag about solving problems they created with
    taking away ports and selling a POS keyboard. LOL. The Apple
    site is showing no availability at the local store and Dec
    3-10 for delivery of my specs. I'm far from the only one
    delighted with Apple's solution to their self-created
    problems.

    Now if Alan Baker would just admit that Apple makes
    boneheaded mistakes (batterygate, butterfly, missing ports,
    fragile cables, etc. all denied) all would be in harmony in
    my Universe.

    I've never denied that Apple makes mistakes, Liarboy.

    I did not say you had denied,
    That is precisely what you just said, Idiot.

    "all denied"
    you to my knowledge never admitted. Not the same thing Liarboy.
    You have defended and continue to defend Apple criticism. Please
    cite a instances where you stated that Apple was in the wrong.
    No, Idiot.

    It's your claim that I've denied that Apple has made mistakes.

    YOU give an example of this.

    Oh come on Alan. Think back to iPhone 6 battery issues. You claimed
    that Apple was acting in good faith when it put CPU throttling in iOS
    without telling anyone.


    Quotes, please.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas E.@21:1/5 to Alan on Thu Nov 11 15:21:35 2021
    On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 4:47:22 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-11 1:33 p.m., John wrote:
    On 11/10/2021 8:49 PM, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 6:47:24 AM UTC-5, -hh wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:27:19 AM UTC-5, Bob Campbell
    wrote:
    John <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be a >>>>> Mac
    advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was >>>>> performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I >>>>> recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young age of >>>>> 55.
    There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting character >>>>> who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also. There was >>>>> Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any real >>>>> advocacy. Cannot remember the others.
    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup
    earlier this week;
    last I checked up on him, they were doing okay; his blog has some
    nice pics of
    his new home & office layout, etc.
    Someone else posted a similar question a few weeks ago. Basically
    "Where
    has all the Mac Advocacy gone?"

    I'll give the same answer as I did then. There is no "advocacy"
    going on
    here because no one cares about Macs vs Windows these days. That was >>>> the
    Raging Debate 30 years ago.
    Essentially, the "Apple is doomed!" has been debunked for years,
    particularly
    from the rise of iOS & AAPL price.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android. With the >>>> same arguments being made. Android is "open" and represents "freedom" >>>> (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and iOS/iPadOS is the choice for >>>> "lemmings" who want to make a "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 >>>> years
    ago).

    It is all just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for
    "real
    men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄
    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the
    laptop market,
    where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has >>> apparently given them a nice bump in October sales:

    "... 24% U.S. market share as of October 2021.."

    <https://macdailynews.com/2021/11/08/apple-mac-takes-24-share-of-u-s-laptop-market/>

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a
    Windows
    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. Ever >>>>> since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac has come >>>>> since my first experiences with it at work in the nineties. Classic >>>>> Mac
    OS sure was an embarrasment.

    Windows was just as embarrassing before Windows 2000. 3, 3.1, Win95 and >>>> Win98 were all based on DOS. Windows ME was a total POS.
    LOL, I was thinking the same thing: we pretty much think of
    everything from
    that era as being primitive by our current level of expectations.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue about >>>> VHS
    vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM. ARC vs ZIP.
    Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved on.
    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go through
    his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of some iMac Pro >>> rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop seen...


    -hh

    Yep, Mac OS prior to OS X was junk. No memory management to speak of,
    terrible multitasking, crash prone, it was arguably as bad as Windows
    98 SE or ME. Windows 2000 was a revelation. Blew me away! Pretty much
    bullet-proof. It was an OS 9 contemporary. It took several years for
    OS X to catch up, but by then with the move to Intel to me MacBook
    became a different dress on the same hardware body. I had years
    invested in Windows, the hardware was more affordable, no good reason
    to switch. Then Apple started taking away ports and giving up
    reliability for the sake of fashion - aka Butterfly Keyboard.

    But now, well just wow. The new MacBook Pro is as amazing to me as Win
    2000 was 21 years ago. The Windows laptop world cannot compete at the
    high end at the moment. If you just want to browse the web, keep up
    with email, shop and read books a $500 Windows laptop will do that. My
    almost 4 year old HP is still quite serviceable. I'm going to keep it
    in case W11 VM on the Mac M1 goes away. I might go back to the HP and
    sell the Mac, then when OS 10 goes away reassess. In meantime I'll
    enjoy the new toy.

    And Windows versus Mac OS? The companies have "borrowed" so many
    interface ideas from each other that it's now comically easy to switch
    back and forth now. OS 9 vs Win 2000 21 years ago? Not so easy.

    Then too, there is the service after the sale dimension. I never
    appreciated that until I bought an iPad then an iPhone. I've not
    needed much in the way of serious device repairs over the last 30
    years, but it's good to know that the Apple Store is 20 minutes away.
    I'm hoping MS wakes up and makes a W11 version for ARM that includes
    the Apple M series.

    Happy Veteran's Day Hugh



    I must say you have become quite the Apple fanboy Tom. In spite of
    Alans "advocacy"
    I'm still not convinced that this isn't all just a ploy...

    Really? Need to see some sort of proof? Check the header in my posts. Need a picture of my desktop?

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sKeTwADvVTD2bBY5f2AENFQbEQN0XdD5/view?usp=sharing

    Note Quicken running on Parallels. See the reply I started at the bottom of the Edge window? See the Dock. The the little red, orange and green buttons on the Edge windows.

    More?

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LlwOL09GpH8q4AGrB1z5XTv_yQWsGQjT/view?usp=sharing

    Still think it's a "ploy" Liarboy.

    Just like always, you will try to find a flaw, even if it takes creating one out of thin air.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas E.@21:1/5 to Alan on Fri Nov 12 14:03:03 2021
    On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 6:31:08 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-11 3:23 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 12:58:49 AM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-10 8:16 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:36:37 PM UTC-5, Alan
    wrote:
    On 2021-11-10 8:57 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 6:47:24 AM UTC-5, -hh
    wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:27:19 AM UTC-5, Bob
    Campbell wrote:
    John <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was
    supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time
    hardly any effective advocacy was performed. I remember
    Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I recall.
    Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young
    age of 55. There was a guy named George Graves who was
    an interesting character who was into high end audio.
    Think he must have passed also. There was Sandman(hope
    he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any
    real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.
    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another
    newsgroup earlier this week; last I checked up on him, they
    were doing okay; his blog has some nice pics of his new
    home & office layout, etc.
    Someone else posted a similar question a few weeks ago.
    Basically "Where has all the Mac Advocacy gone?"

    I'll give the same answer as I did then. There is no
    "advocacy" going on here because no one cares about Macs
    vs Windows these days. That was the Raging Debate 30
    years ago.
    Essentially, the "Apple is doomed!" has been debunked for
    years, particularly from the rise of iOS & AAPL price.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and
    Android. With the same arguments being made. Android is
    "open" and represents "freedom" (just like Windows did 30
    years ago) and iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings"
    who want to make a "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30
    years ago).

    It is all just as silly and stupid as ever.
    Android/Windows is for "real men" and anything from Apple
    is for "kiddies". 🙄
    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on
    the laptop market, where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max
    CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a
    nice bump in October sales:

    "... 24% U.S. market share as of October 2021.."

    <https://macdailynews.com/2021/11/08/apple-mac-takes-24-share-of-u-s-laptop-market/>




    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows >>>>>>>> XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my
    first Mac. Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing
    about how far Mac has come since my first experiences
    with it at work in the nineties. Classic Mac OS sure
    was an embarrasment.

    Windows was just as embarrassing before Windows 2000. 3,
    3.1, Win95 and Win98 were all based on DOS. Windows ME
    was a total POS.
    LOL, I was thinking the same thing: we pretty much think
    of everything from that era as being primitive by our
    current level of expectations.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well
    argue about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM
    vs ZMODEM. ARC vs ZIP. Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The
    world has moved on.
    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go
    through his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm
    hearing of some iMac Pro rumors that might tempt me to get
    a new desktop seen...


    -hh

    Note that as soon as Apple made a laptop with incredible
    speed, a good set of ports, and a durable keyboard I bought
    one. In fact, I bought it about a week after it was
    announced. I walked into the Apple Store expecting a 2-4 week
    wait. While I was talking to the sales person I saw a
    customer receive a new MacBook. I walked out with one too.
    Why is that so remarkable?

    Trust Apple to brag about solving problems they created with
    taking away ports and selling a POS keyboard. LOL. The Apple
    site is showing no availability at the local store and Dec
    3-10 for delivery of my specs. I'm far from the only one
    delighted with Apple's solution to their self-created
    problems.

    Now if Alan Baker would just admit that Apple makes
    boneheaded mistakes (batterygate, butterfly, missing ports,
    fragile cables, etc. all denied) all would be in harmony in
    my Universe.

    I've never denied that Apple makes mistakes, Liarboy.

    I did not say you had denied,
    That is precisely what you just said, Idiot.

    "all denied"
    you to my knowledge never admitted. Not the same thing Liarboy.
    You have defended and continue to defend Apple criticism. Please
    cite a instances where you stated that Apple was in the wrong.
    No, Idiot.

    It's your claim that I've denied that Apple has made mistakes.

    YOU give an example of this.

    Oh come on Alan. Think back to iPhone 6 battery issues. You claimed
    that Apple was acting in good faith when it put CPU throttling in iOS without telling anyone.

    Quotes, please.

    Look at the "Apple's Plan to Pay $500 Million to Settle Lawsuit Over Secretly Throttling Older iPhones Gets Preliminary Approval today" for your defense of
    Apple in a massive battery lawsuit they settled instead of going to trial.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Thomas E. on Fri Nov 12 14:09:26 2021
    On 2021-11-12 2:03 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 6:31:08 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-11 3:23 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 12:58:49 AM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-10 8:16 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:36:37 PM UTC-5, Alan
    wrote:
    On 2021-11-10 8:57 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 6:47:24 AM UTC-5, -hh
    wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 12:27:19 AM UTC-5, Bob
    Campbell wrote:
    John <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was
    supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time
    hardly any effective advocacy was performed. I remember
    Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I recall.
    Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young
    age of 55. There was a guy named George Graves who was
    an interesting character who was into high end audio.
    Think he must have passed also. There was Sandman(hope
    he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any
    real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.
    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another
    newsgroup earlier this week; last I checked up on him, they
    were doing okay; his blog has some nice pics of his new
    home & office layout, etc.
    Someone else posted a similar question a few weeks ago.
    Basically "Where has all the Mac Advocacy gone?"

    I'll give the same answer as I did then. There is no
    "advocacy" going on here because no one cares about Macs
    vs Windows these days. That was the Raging Debate 30
    years ago.
    Essentially, the "Apple is doomed!" has been debunked for
    years, particularly from the rise of iOS & AAPL price.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and
    Android. With the same arguments being made. Android is
    "open" and represents "freedom" (just like Windows did 30
    years ago) and iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings"
    who want to make a "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30
    years ago).

    It is all just as silly and stupid as ever.
    Android/Windows is for "real men" and anything from Apple
    is for "kiddies". 🙄
    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on
    the laptop market, where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max
    CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a
    nice bump in October sales:

    "... 24% U.S. market share as of October 2021.."

    <https://macdailynews.com/2021/11/08/apple-mac-takes-24-share-of-u-s-laptop-market/>




    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows >>>>>>>>>> XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my
    first Mac. Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing
    about how far Mac has come since my first experiences
    with it at work in the nineties. Classic Mac OS sure
    was an embarrasment.

    Windows was just as embarrassing before Windows 2000. 3,
    3.1, Win95 and Win98 were all based on DOS. Windows ME
    was a total POS.
    LOL, I was thinking the same thing: we pretty much think
    of everything from that era as being primitive by our
    current level of expectations.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well
    argue about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM
    vs ZMODEM. ARC vs ZIP. Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The
    world has moved on.
    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go
    through his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm
    hearing of some iMac Pro rumors that might tempt me to get
    a new desktop seen...


    -hh

    Note that as soon as Apple made a laptop with incredible
    speed, a good set of ports, and a durable keyboard I bought
    one. In fact, I bought it about a week after it was
    announced. I walked into the Apple Store expecting a 2-4 week
    wait. While I was talking to the sales person I saw a
    customer receive a new MacBook. I walked out with one too.
    Why is that so remarkable?

    Trust Apple to brag about solving problems they created with
    taking away ports and selling a POS keyboard. LOL. The Apple
    site is showing no availability at the local store and Dec
    3-10 for delivery of my specs. I'm far from the only one
    delighted with Apple's solution to their self-created
    problems.

    Now if Alan Baker would just admit that Apple makes
    boneheaded mistakes (batterygate, butterfly, missing ports,
    fragile cables, etc. all denied) all would be in harmony in
    my Universe.

    I've never denied that Apple makes mistakes, Liarboy.

    I did not say you had denied,
    That is precisely what you just said, Idiot.

    "all denied"
    you to my knowledge never admitted. Not the same thing Liarboy.
    You have defended and continue to defend Apple criticism. Please
    cite a instances where you stated that Apple was in the wrong.
    No, Idiot.

    It's your claim that I've denied that Apple has made mistakes.

    YOU give an example of this.

    Oh come on Alan. Think back to iPhone 6 battery issues. You claimed
    that Apple was acting in good faith when it put CPU throttling in iOS
    without telling anyone.

    Quotes, please.

    Look at the "Apple's Plan to Pay $500 Million to Settle Lawsuit Over Secretly Throttling Older iPhones Gets Preliminary Approval today" for your defense of
    Apple in a massive battery lawsuit they settled instead of going to trial.


    Nope.

    You provide the quotes, Idiot!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Thomas E. on Fri Nov 12 14:59:36 2021
    On 2021-11-12 2:03 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 6:31:08 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:

    Oh come on Alan. Think back to iPhone 6 battery issues. You
    claimed that Apple was acting in good faith when it put CPU
    throttling in iOS without telling anyone.

    Quotes, please.

    Look at the "Apple's Plan to Pay $500 Million to Settle Lawsuit Over
    Secretly Throttling Older iPhones Gets Preliminary Approval today"
    for your defense of Apple in a massive battery lawsuit they settled
    instead of going to trial.

    So I did look at the thread...

    (It was only 10 posts; 2 of which were from the hardcore anti-Apple
    zealot, "Arlen")

    ...and I didn't find a single word where I stated that Apple was acting
    in good faith.


    Here are all the substantive statements I made in that thread:

    Post 2:
    "And what you don't get is that a settlement is by no means an admission
    of guilt."

    Post7:
    "They screwed up, as in: they erred.

    But as I said, this is no admission of actual wrongdoing that could have resulted in a judgement against them."

    Post 10 (in reply to you):
    "So you agree that you have no support for Apple's guilt in this."

    And you had no rebuttal for that.



    If that was your best shot, Idiot...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sandman@21:1/5 to All on Sat Nov 13 09:38:06 2021
    In article <36b08647-04ae-48db-bf8d-c923a555b376n@googlegroups.com>, -hh
    wrote:

    John <nos...@nospam.com>wrote:

    John:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to
    be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective
    advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the
    name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago
    at the young age of 55. There was a guy named George Graves who
    was an interesting character who was into high end audio. Think
    he must have passed also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK.
    Alan is still around - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot
    remember the others.

    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup
    earlier this week; last I checked up on him, they were doing okay;
    his blog has some nice pics of his new home & office layout, etc.

    I'm doing just fine, moved my office home indeed, and it's working great.

    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android. With
    the same arguments being made. Android is "open" and represents
    "freedom" (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and iOS/iPadOS is
    the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a "fashion statement"
    (just like Macs 30 years ago). It is all just as silly and stupid
    as ever. Android/Windows is for "real men" and anything from Apple
    is for "kiddies". 🙄

    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the
    laptop market, where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max CPU-equipped
    MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a nice bump in October
    sales:

    And kicks the ass of just about anything Windows.

    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue
    about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM. ARC
    vs ZIP. Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved on.

    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go through
    his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of some iMac
    Pro rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop seen...

    I recently got a Mac mini as my main work computer, and the Dell Ultrasharp curved 40" monitor on a swivel stand, so I don't think an iMac is for me anymore. When and if the Mac mini gets the new Apple Silicone, I may switch
    it up. Super happy with the Mac mini.


    --
    Sandman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sandman@21:1/5 to John on Sat Nov 13 09:33:10 2021
    In article <c_udnR7S2sK_IRf8nZ2dnUU7-LHNnZ2d@giganews.com>, John wrote:

    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be a
    Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy
    was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as
    I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young age
    of 55. There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting
    character who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed
    also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around -
    not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    I'm ok :)

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a
    Windows XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first
    Mac. Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac
    has come since my first experiences with it at work in the nineties.
    Classic Mac OS sure was an embarrasment.



    --
    Sandman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sandman@21:1/5 to All on Sat Nov 13 09:39:31 2021
    In article <36b08647-04ae-48db-bf8d-c923a555b376n@googlegroups.com>, -hh
    wrote:

    John <nos...@nospam.com>wrote:

    John:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to
    be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective
    advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the
    name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago
    at the young age of 55. There was a guy named George Graves who
    was an interesting character who was into high end audio. Think
    he must have passed also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK.
    Alan is still around - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot
    remember the others.

    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup
    earlier this week; last I checked up on him, they were doing okay;
    his blog has some nice pics of his new home & office layout, etc.

    I'm doing just fine, moved my office home indeed, and it's working great.

    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android. With
    the same arguments being made. Android is "open" and represents
    "freedom" (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and iOS/iPadOS is
    the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a "fashion statement"
    (just like Macs 30 years ago). It is all just as silly and stupid
    as ever. Android/Windows is for "real men" and anything from Apple
    is for "kiddies". 🙄

    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the
    laptop market, where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max CPU-equipped
    MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a nice bump in October
    sales:

    And kicks the ass of just about anything Windows.

    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue
    about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM. ARC
    vs ZIP. Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved on.

    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go through
    his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of some iMac
    Pro rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop seen...

    I recently got a Mac mini as my main work computer, and the Dell Ultrasharp curved 40" monitor on a swivel stand, so I don't think an iMac is for me anymore. When and if the Mac mini gets the new Apple Silicone, I may switch
    it up. Super happy with the Mac mini.


    --
    Sandman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas E.@21:1/5 to Sandman on Sat Nov 13 19:59:40 2021
    On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 4:39:33 AM UTC-5, Sandman wrote:
    In article <36b08647-04ae-48db...@googlegroups.com>, -hh
    wrote:

    John <nos...@nospam.com>wrote:

    John:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to
    be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective
    advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the
    name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago
    at the young age of 55. There was a guy named George Graves who
    was an interesting character who was into high end audio. Think
    he must have passed also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK.
    Alan is still around - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot
    remember the others.

    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup
    earlier this week; last I checked up on him, they were doing okay;
    his blog has some nice pics of his new home & office layout, etc.
    I'm doing just fine, moved my office home indeed, and it's working great.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android. With
    the same arguments being made. Android is "open" and represents "freedom" (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and iOS/iPadOS is
    the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a "fashion statement"
    (just like Macs 30 years ago). It is all just as silly and stupid
    as ever. Android/Windows is for "real men" and anything from Apple
    is for "kiddies". 🙄

    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the
    laptop market, where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a nice bump in October
    sales:
    And kicks the ass of just about anything Windows.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue
    about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM. ARC
    vs ZIP. Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved on.

    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go through
    his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of some iMac
    Pro rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop seen...
    I recently got a Mac mini as my main work computer, and the Dell Ultrasharp curved 40" monitor on a swivel stand, so I don't think an iMac is for me anymore. When and if the Mac mini gets the new Apple Silicone, I may switch it up. Super happy with the Mac mini.


    --
    Sandman

    Only if you need all that power for media production. My 4 year old HP Envy loads browser pages, opens emails, edits Office files etc. at similar speeds to this spanking new base model 16" M1 MacBook Pro. It's not as pretty, the trackpad not as nice, the
    screen is lower res, but it does the job. The battery life is nice too, 94% left after 1.5 hours of use! The HP would be at 70% about now. My new MacBook is simply a luxury I can afford.

    I'm thinking about producing a YouTube comparison between the two.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas E.@21:1/5 to Alan on Sat Nov 13 20:01:57 2021
    On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 5:59:38 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-12 2:03 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 6:31:08 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:

    Oh come on Alan. Think back to iPhone 6 battery issues. You
    claimed that Apple was acting in good faith when it put CPU
    throttling in iOS without telling anyone.

    Quotes, please.

    Look at the "Apple's Plan to Pay $500 Million to Settle Lawsuit Over Secretly Throttling Older iPhones Gets Preliminary Approval today"
    for your defense of Apple in a massive battery lawsuit they settled
    instead of going to trial.
    So I did look at the thread...

    (It was only 10 posts; 2 of which were from the hardcore anti-Apple
    zealot, "Arlen")

    ...and I didn't find a single word where I stated that Apple was acting
    in good faith.


    Here are all the substantive statements I made in that thread:

    Post 2:
    "And what you don't get is that a settlement is by no means an admission
    of guilt."

    Post7:
    "They screwed up, as in: they erred.

    But as I said, this is no admission of actual wrongdoing that could have resulted in a judgement against them."

    Post 10 (in reply to you):
    "So you agree that you have no support for Apple's guilt in this."

    And you had no rebuttal for that.



    If that was your best shot, Idiot...

    LOL you still used the settling is no admission of guilt argument.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Thomas E. on Sat Nov 13 22:09:08 2021
    On 2021-11-13 8:01 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Friday, November 12, 2021 at 5:59:38 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-12 2:03 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 6:31:08 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:

    Oh come on Alan. Think back to iPhone 6 battery issues. You
    claimed that Apple was acting in good faith when it put CPU
    throttling in iOS without telling anyone.

    Quotes, please.

    Look at the "Apple's Plan to Pay $500 Million to Settle Lawsuit Over
    Secretly Throttling Older iPhones Gets Preliminary Approval today"
    for your defense of Apple in a massive battery lawsuit they settled
    instead of going to trial.
    So I did look at the thread...

    (It was only 10 posts; 2 of which were from the hardcore anti-Apple
    zealot, "Arlen")

    ...and I didn't find a single word where I stated that Apple was acting
    in good faith.


    Here are all the substantive statements I made in that thread:

    Post 2:
    "And what you don't get is that a settlement is by no means an admission
    of guilt."

    Post7:
    "They screwed up, as in: they erred.

    But as I said, this is no admission of actual wrongdoing that could have
    resulted in a judgement against them."

    Post 10 (in reply to you):
    "So you agree that you have no support for Apple's guilt in this."

    And you had no rebuttal for that.



    If that was your best shot, Idiot...

    LOL you still used the settling is no admission of guilt argument.


    Because it's still true...

    ...Idiot.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Thomas E. on Tue Nov 16 11:59:44 2021
    On 2021-11-13 7:59 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 4:39:33 AM UTC-5, Sandman wrote:
    In article <36b08647-04ae-48db...@googlegroups.com>, -hh wrote:

    John <nos...@nospam.com>wrote:

    John: Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was
    supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly
    any effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta
    who went by the name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he
    passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a
    guy named George Graves who was an interesting character who
    was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also.
    There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around -
    not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup
    earlier this week; last I checked up on him, they were doing
    okay; his blog has some nice pics of his new home & office
    layout, etc.
    I'm doing just fine, moved my office home indeed, and it's working
    great.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android.
    With the same arguments being made. Android is "open" and
    represents "freedom" (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and
    iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a
    "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years ago). It is all
    just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for "real
    men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄

    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the
    laptop market, where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max
    CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a nice bump
    in October sales:
    And kicks the ass of just about anything Windows.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue
    about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM.
    ARC vs ZIP. Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved
    on.

    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go
    through his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of
    some iMac Pro rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop
    seen...
    I recently got a Mac mini as my main work computer, and the Dell
    Ultrasharp curved 40" monitor on a swivel stand, so I don't think
    an iMac is for me anymore. When and if the Mac mini gets the new
    Apple Silicone, I may switch it up. Super happy with the Mac mini.


    -- Sandman

    Only if you need all that power for media production. My 4 year old
    HP Envy loads browser pages, opens emails, edits Office files etc. at
    similar speeds to this spanking new base model 16" M1 MacBook Pro.

    1. Bullshit. It does it all more slowly. Do a side by side video of
    booting, launching applications, etc.

    It's not as pretty, the trackpad not as nice, the screen is lower
    res, but it does the job. The battery life is nice too, 94% left
    after 1.5 hours of use! The HP would be at 70% about now. My new
    MacBook is simply a luxury I can afford.

    2. A "luxury" that can apparently run an external display that the HP
    cannot...

    ...as you've told has you "have to" return it.


    I'm thinking about producing a YouTube comparison between the two.

    Do it.

    Oh, wait! You've cleverly made that an impossibility now, haven't you,
    Idiot?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas E.@21:1/5 to Alan on Wed Nov 17 17:36:48 2021
    On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 2:59:46 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-13 7:59 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 4:39:33 AM UTC-5, Sandman wrote:
    In article <36b08647-04ae-48db...@googlegroups.com>, -hh wrote:

    John <nos...@nospam.com>wrote:

    John: Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was
    supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly
    any effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta
    who went by the name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he
    passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a
    guy named George Graves who was an interesting character who
    was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also.
    There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around -
    not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup
    earlier this week; last I checked up on him, they were doing
    okay; his blog has some nice pics of his new home & office
    layout, etc.
    I'm doing just fine, moved my office home indeed, and it's working
    great.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android.
    With the same arguments being made. Android is "open" and
    represents "freedom" (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and
    iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a
    "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years ago). It is all
    just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for "real
    men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄

    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the
    laptop market, where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max
    CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a nice bump
    in October sales:
    And kicks the ass of just about anything Windows.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue
    about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM.
    ARC vs ZIP. Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved
    on.

    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go
    through his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of
    some iMac Pro rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop
    seen...
    I recently got a Mac mini as my main work computer, and the Dell
    Ultrasharp curved 40" monitor on a swivel stand, so I don't think
    an iMac is for me anymore. When and if the Mac mini gets the new
    Apple Silicone, I may switch it up. Super happy with the Mac mini.


    -- Sandman

    Only if you need all that power for media production. My 4 year old
    HP Envy loads browser pages, opens emails, edits Office files etc. at similar speeds to this spanking new base model 16" M1 MacBook Pro.
    1. Bullshit. It does it all more slowly. Do a side by side video of
    booting, launching applications, etc.
    It's not as pretty, the trackpad not as nice, the screen is lower
    res, but it does the job. The battery life is nice too, 94% left
    after 1.5 hours of use! The HP would be at 70% about now. My new
    MacBook is simply a luxury I can afford.
    2. A "luxury" that can apparently run an external display that the HP cannot...

    ...as you've told has you "have to" return it.

    I'm thinking about producing a YouTube comparison between the two.
    Do it.

    Oh, wait! You've cleverly made that an impossibility now, haven't you, Idiot?
    Do you also believe NASA staged the moon landings in a studio? Or that the U.S. CIA sponsored the 9/11 attacks?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas E.@21:1/5 to Alan on Wed Nov 17 17:34:39 2021
    On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 2:59:46 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-13 7:59 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 4:39:33 AM UTC-5, Sandman wrote:
    In article <36b08647-04ae-48db...@googlegroups.com>, -hh wrote:

    John <nos...@nospam.com>wrote:

    John: Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was
    supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly
    any effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta
    who went by the name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he
    passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a
    guy named George Graves who was an interesting character who
    was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also.
    There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around -
    not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup
    earlier this week; last I checked up on him, they were doing
    okay; his blog has some nice pics of his new home & office
    layout, etc.
    I'm doing just fine, moved my office home indeed, and it's working
    great.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android.
    With the same arguments being made. Android is "open" and
    represents "freedom" (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and
    iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a
    "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years ago). It is all
    just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for "real
    men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄

    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the
    laptop market, where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max
    CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a nice bump
    in October sales:
    And kicks the ass of just about anything Windows.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue
    about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM.
    ARC vs ZIP. Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved
    on.

    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go
    through his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of
    some iMac Pro rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop
    seen...
    I recently got a Mac mini as my main work computer, and the Dell
    Ultrasharp curved 40" monitor on a swivel stand, so I don't think
    an iMac is for me anymore. When and if the Mac mini gets the new
    Apple Silicone, I may switch it up. Super happy with the Mac mini.


    -- Sandman

    Only if you need all that power for media production. My 4 year old
    HP Envy loads browser pages, opens emails, edits Office files etc. at similar speeds to this spanking new base model 16" M1 MacBook Pro.
    1. Bullshit. It does it all more slowly. Do a side by side video of
    booting, launching applications, etc.
    It's not as pretty, the trackpad not as nice, the screen is lower
    res, but it does the job. The battery life is nice too, 94% left
    after 1.5 hours of use! The HP would be at 70% about now. My new
    MacBook is simply a luxury I can afford.
    2. A "luxury" that can apparently run an external display that the HP cannot...

    ...as you've told has you "have to" return it.

    I'm thinking about producing a YouTube comparison between the two.
    Do it.

    Oh, wait! You've cleverly made that an impossibility now, haven't you, Idiot?

    No Alan, when I wrote that post I thought I had lots of time to make the video. A boot looping Mac was nowhere on my radar screen. The HP is still running like new.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Thomas E. on Wed Nov 17 17:58:15 2021
    On 2021-11-17 5:36 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 2:59:46 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-13 7:59 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 4:39:33 AM UTC-5, Sandman wrote:
    In article <36b08647-04ae-48db...@googlegroups.com>, -hh wrote:

    John <nos...@nospam.com>wrote:

    John: Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was
    supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly
    any effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta
    who went by the name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he
    passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a
    guy named George Graves who was an interesting character who
    was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also.
    There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around -
    not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup
    earlier this week; last I checked up on him, they were doing
    okay; his blog has some nice pics of his new home & office
    layout, etc.
    I'm doing just fine, moved my office home indeed, and it's working
    great.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android.
    With the same arguments being made. Android is "open" and
    represents "freedom" (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and
    iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a
    "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years ago). It is all
    just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for "real
    men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄

    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the
    laptop market, where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max
    CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a nice bump
    in October sales:
    And kicks the ass of just about anything Windows.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue
    about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM.
    ARC vs ZIP. Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved
    on.

    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go
    through his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of
    some iMac Pro rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop
    seen...
    I recently got a Mac mini as my main work computer, and the Dell
    Ultrasharp curved 40" monitor on a swivel stand, so I don't think
    an iMac is for me anymore. When and if the Mac mini gets the new
    Apple Silicone, I may switch it up. Super happy with the Mac mini.


    -- Sandman

    Only if you need all that power for media production. My 4 year old
    HP Envy loads browser pages, opens emails, edits Office files etc. at
    similar speeds to this spanking new base model 16" M1 MacBook Pro.
    1. Bullshit. It does it all more slowly. Do a side by side video of
    booting, launching applications, etc.
    It's not as pretty, the trackpad not as nice, the screen is lower
    res, but it does the job. The battery life is nice too, 94% left
    after 1.5 hours of use! The HP would be at 70% about now. My new
    MacBook is simply a luxury I can afford.
    2. A "luxury" that can apparently run an external display that the HP
    cannot...

    ...as you've told has you "have to" return it.

    I'm thinking about producing a YouTube comparison between the two.
    Do it.

    Oh, wait! You've cleverly made that an impossibility now, haven't you,
    Idiot?
    Do you also believe NASA staged the moon landings in a studio? Or that the U.S. CIA sponsored the 9/11 attacks?


    No and no.

    Now ask me if I trust you to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing
    but the truth.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John@21:1/5 to Thomas E. on Wed Nov 17 22:29:45 2021
    On 11/17/2021 5:34 PM, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 2:59:46 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-13 7:59 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 4:39:33 AM UTC-5, Sandman wrote:
    In article <36b08647-04ae-48db...@googlegroups.com>, -hh wrote:

    John <nos...@nospam.com>wrote:

    John: Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was
    supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly
    any effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta
    who went by the name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he
    passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a
    guy named George Graves who was an interesting character who
    was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also.
    There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around -
    not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup
    earlier this week; last I checked up on him, they were doing
    okay; his blog has some nice pics of his new home & office
    layout, etc.
    I'm doing just fine, moved my office home indeed, and it's working
    great.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android.
    With the same arguments being made. Android is "open" and
    represents "freedom" (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and
    iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a
    "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years ago). It is all
    just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for "real
    men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄

    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the
    laptop market, where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max
    CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a nice bump
    in October sales:
    And kicks the ass of just about anything Windows.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue
    about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM.
    ARC vs ZIP. Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved
    on.

    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go
    through his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of
    some iMac Pro rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop
    seen...
    I recently got a Mac mini as my main work computer, and the Dell
    Ultrasharp curved 40" monitor on a swivel stand, so I don't think
    an iMac is for me anymore. When and if the Mac mini gets the new
    Apple Silicone, I may switch it up. Super happy with the Mac mini.


    -- Sandman

    Only if you need all that power for media production. My 4 year old
    HP Envy loads browser pages, opens emails, edits Office files etc. at
    similar speeds to this spanking new base model 16" M1 MacBook Pro.
    1. Bullshit. It does it all more slowly. Do a side by side video of
    booting, launching applications, etc.
    It's not as pretty, the trackpad not as nice, the screen is lower
    res, but it does the job. The battery life is nice too, 94% left
    after 1.5 hours of use! The HP would be at 70% about now. My new
    MacBook is simply a luxury I can afford.
    2. A "luxury" that can apparently run an external display that the HP
    cannot...

    ...as you've told has you "have to" return it.

    I'm thinking about producing a YouTube comparison between the two.
    Do it.

    Oh, wait! You've cleverly made that an impossibility now, haven't you,
    Idiot?

    No Alan, when I wrote that post I thought I had lots of time to make the video. A boot looping Mac was nowhere on my radar screen. The HP is still running like new.

    Nice to know the HPs loud fan is still spinning!!!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas E.@21:1/5 to Alan on Mon Nov 29 16:28:27 2021
    On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 8:58:18 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-17 5:36 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 2:59:46 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-13 7:59 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 4:39:33 AM UTC-5, Sandman wrote:
    In article <36b08647-04ae-48db...@googlegroups.com>, -hh wrote:

    John <nos...@nospam.com>wrote:

    John: Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was
    supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly
    any effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta
    who went by the name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he
    passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a
    guy named George Graves who was an interesting character who
    was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also.
    There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - >>>>>>> not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup
    earlier this week; last I checked up on him, they were doing
    okay; his blog has some nice pics of his new home & office
    layout, etc.
    I'm doing just fine, moved my office home indeed, and it's working
    great.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android.
    With the same arguments being made. Android is "open" and
    represents "freedom" (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and
    iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a
    "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years ago). It is all
    just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for "real
    men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄

    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the
    laptop market, where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max
    CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a nice bump
    in October sales:
    And kicks the ass of just about anything Windows.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue
    about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM.
    ARC vs ZIP. Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved
    on.

    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go
    through his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of
    some iMac Pro rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop
    seen...
    I recently got a Mac mini as my main work computer, and the Dell
    Ultrasharp curved 40" monitor on a swivel stand, so I don't think
    an iMac is for me anymore. When and if the Mac mini gets the new
    Apple Silicone, I may switch it up. Super happy with the Mac mini.


    -- Sandman

    Only if you need all that power for media production. My 4 year old
    HP Envy loads browser pages, opens emails, edits Office files etc. at >>> similar speeds to this spanking new base model 16" M1 MacBook Pro.
    1. Bullshit. It does it all more slowly. Do a side by side video of
    booting, launching applications, etc.
    It's not as pretty, the trackpad not as nice, the screen is lower
    res, but it does the job. The battery life is nice too, 94% left
    after 1.5 hours of use! The HP would be at 70% about now. My new
    MacBook is simply a luxury I can afford.
    2. A "luxury" that can apparently run an external display that the HP
    cannot...

    ...as you've told has you "have to" return it.

    I'm thinking about producing a YouTube comparison between the two.
    Do it.

    Oh, wait! You've cleverly made that an impossibility now, haven't you,
    Idiot?
    Do you also believe NASA staged the moon landings in a studio? Or that the U.S. CIA sponsored the 9/11 attacks?

    No and no.

    Now ask me if I trust you to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing
    but the truth.

    You don't trust anybody who does not agree with your narrative. Calling people liars is just a cheap way to discredit.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas E.@21:1/5 to John on Mon Nov 29 16:27:00 2021
    On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 1:29:53 AM UTC-5, John wrote:
    On 11/17/2021 5:34 PM, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 2:59:46 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-13 7:59 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 4:39:33 AM UTC-5, Sandman wrote:
    In article <36b08647-04ae-48db...@googlegroups.com>, -hh wrote:

    John <nos...@nospam.com>wrote:

    John: Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was
    supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly
    any effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta
    who went by the name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he
    passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a
    guy named George Graves who was an interesting character who
    was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also.
    There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - >>>>>>> not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup
    earlier this week; last I checked up on him, they were doing
    okay; his blog has some nice pics of his new home & office
    layout, etc.
    I'm doing just fine, moved my office home indeed, and it's working
    great.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android.
    With the same arguments being made. Android is "open" and
    represents "freedom" (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and
    iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a
    "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years ago). It is all
    just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for "real
    men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄

    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the
    laptop market, where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max
    CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a nice bump
    in October sales:
    And kicks the ass of just about anything Windows.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue
    about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM.
    ARC vs ZIP. Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved
    on.

    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go
    through his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of
    some iMac Pro rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop
    seen...
    I recently got a Mac mini as my main work computer, and the Dell
    Ultrasharp curved 40" monitor on a swivel stand, so I don't think
    an iMac is for me anymore. When and if the Mac mini gets the new
    Apple Silicone, I may switch it up. Super happy with the Mac mini.


    -- Sandman

    Only if you need all that power for media production. My 4 year old
    HP Envy loads browser pages, opens emails, edits Office files etc. at >>> similar speeds to this spanking new base model 16" M1 MacBook Pro.
    1. Bullshit. It does it all more slowly. Do a side by side video of
    booting, launching applications, etc.
    It's not as pretty, the trackpad not as nice, the screen is lower
    res, but it does the job. The battery life is nice too, 94% left
    after 1.5 hours of use! The HP would be at 70% about now. My new
    MacBook is simply a luxury I can afford.
    2. A "luxury" that can apparently run an external display that the HP
    cannot...

    ...as you've told has you "have to" return it.

    I'm thinking about producing a YouTube comparison between the two.
    Do it.

    Oh, wait! You've cleverly made that an impossibility now, haven't you,
    Idiot?

    No Alan, when I wrote that post I thought I had lots of time to make the video. A boot looping Mac was nowhere on my radar screen. The HP is still running like new.

    Nice to know the HPs loud fan is still spinning!!!

    My HP's fan rarely runs unless I'm doing some heavy-duty stats.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Thomas E. on Mon Nov 29 17:44:51 2021
    On 2021-11-29 4:28 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 8:58:18 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-17 5:36 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 2:59:46 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-13 7:59 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 4:39:33 AM UTC-5, Sandman wrote:
    In article <36b08647-04ae-48db...@googlegroups.com>, -hh wrote:

    John <nos...@nospam.com>wrote:

    John: Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was
    supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly
    any effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta >>>>>>>>> who went by the name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he
    passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a
    guy named George Graves who was an interesting character who >>>>>>>>> was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also.
    There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - >>>>>>>>> not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup
    earlier this week; last I checked up on him, they were doing
    okay; his blog has some nice pics of his new home & office
    layout, etc.
    I'm doing just fine, moved my office home indeed, and it's working >>>>>> great.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android.
    With the same arguments being made. Android is "open" and
    represents "freedom" (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and
    iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a
    "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years ago). It is all
    just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for "real >>>>>>>> men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄

    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the
    laptop market, where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max
    CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a nice bump >>>>>>> in October sales:
    And kicks the ass of just about anything Windows.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue >>>>>>>> about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM.
    ARC vs ZIP. Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved
    on.

    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go
    through his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of >>>>>>> some iMac Pro rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop
    seen...
    I recently got a Mac mini as my main work computer, and the Dell
    Ultrasharp curved 40" monitor on a swivel stand, so I don't think
    an iMac is for me anymore. When and if the Mac mini gets the new
    Apple Silicone, I may switch it up. Super happy with the Mac mini. >>>>>>

    -- Sandman

    Only if you need all that power for media production. My 4 year old
    HP Envy loads browser pages, opens emails, edits Office files etc. at >>>>> similar speeds to this spanking new base model 16" M1 MacBook Pro.
    1. Bullshit. It does it all more slowly. Do a side by side video of
    booting, launching applications, etc.
    It's not as pretty, the trackpad not as nice, the screen is lower
    res, but it does the job. The battery life is nice too, 94% left
    after 1.5 hours of use! The HP would be at 70% about now. My new
    MacBook is simply a luxury I can afford.
    2. A "luxury" that can apparently run an external display that the HP
    cannot...

    ...as you've told has you "have to" return it.

    I'm thinking about producing a YouTube comparison between the two.
    Do it.

    Oh, wait! You've cleverly made that an impossibility now, haven't you, >>>> Idiot?
    Do you also believe NASA staged the moon landings in a studio? Or that the U.S. CIA sponsored the 9/11 attacks?

    No and no.

    Now ask me if I trust you to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing
    but the truth.

    You don't trust anybody who does not agree with your narrative. Calling people liars is just a cheap way to discredit.


    I call you a liar, Idiot...

    ...because you have regularly lied.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas E.@21:1/5 to Alan on Wed Dec 1 19:14:58 2021
    On Monday, November 29, 2021 at 8:44:53 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-29 4:28 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 8:58:18 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-17 5:36 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 2:59:46 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-13 7:59 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 4:39:33 AM UTC-5, Sandman wrote: >>>>>> In article <36b08647-04ae-48db...@googlegroups.com>, -hh wrote: >>>>>>
    John <nos...@nospam.com>wrote:

    John: Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was
    supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly >>>>>>>>> any effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta >>>>>>>>> who went by the name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he >>>>>>>>> passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a >>>>>>>>> guy named George Graves who was an interesting character who >>>>>>>>> was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also.
    There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - >>>>>>>>> not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup >>>>>>> earlier this week; last I checked up on him, they were doing
    okay; his blog has some nice pics of his new home & office
    layout, etc.
    I'm doing just fine, moved my office home indeed, and it's working >>>>>> great.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android. >>>>>>>> With the same arguments being made. Android is "open" and
    represents "freedom" (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and >>>>>>>> iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a
    "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years ago). It is all >>>>>>>> just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for "real >>>>>>>> men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄

    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the >>>>>>> laptop market, where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max
    CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a nice bump >>>>>>> in October sales:
    And kicks the ass of just about anything Windows.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue >>>>>>>> about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM. >>>>>>>> ARC vs ZIP. Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved >>>>>>>> on.

    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go
    through his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of >>>>>>> some iMac Pro rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop >>>>>>> seen...
    I recently got a Mac mini as my main work computer, and the Dell >>>>>> Ultrasharp curved 40" monitor on a swivel stand, so I don't think >>>>>> an iMac is for me anymore. When and if the Mac mini gets the new >>>>>> Apple Silicone, I may switch it up. Super happy with the Mac mini. >>>>>>

    -- Sandman

    Only if you need all that power for media production. My 4 year old >>>>> HP Envy loads browser pages, opens emails, edits Office files etc. at >>>>> similar speeds to this spanking new base model 16" M1 MacBook Pro. >>>> 1. Bullshit. It does it all more slowly. Do a side by side video of >>>> booting, launching applications, etc.
    It's not as pretty, the trackpad not as nice, the screen is lower >>>>> res, but it does the job. The battery life is nice too, 94% left
    after 1.5 hours of use! The HP would be at 70% about now. My new
    MacBook is simply a luxury I can afford.
    2. A "luxury" that can apparently run an external display that the HP >>>> cannot...

    ...as you've told has you "have to" return it.

    I'm thinking about producing a YouTube comparison between the two. >>>> Do it.

    Oh, wait! You've cleverly made that an impossibility now, haven't you, >>>> Idiot?
    Do you also believe NASA staged the moon landings in a studio? Or that the U.S. CIA sponsored the 9/11 attacks?

    No and no.

    Now ask me if I trust you to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing >> but the truth.

    You don't trust anybody who does not agree with your narrative. Calling people liars is just a cheap way to discredit.

    I call you a liar, Idiot...

    ...because you have regularly lied.

    You call someone else a liar? That's rich.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From STALKING_TARGET_14@21:1/5 to Alan on Wed Dec 1 23:05:02 2021
    On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 6:58:18 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-17 5:36 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 2:59:46 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-13 7:59 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 4:39:33 AM UTC-5, Sandman wrote:
    In article <36b08647-04ae-48db...@googlegroups.com>, -hh wrote:

    John <nos...@nospam.com>wrote:

    John: Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was
    supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly
    any effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta
    who went by the name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he
    passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a
    guy named George Graves who was an interesting character who
    was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also.
    There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - >>>>>>> not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup
    earlier this week; last I checked up on him, they were doing
    okay; his blog has some nice pics of his new home & office
    layout, etc.
    I'm doing just fine, moved my office home indeed, and it's working
    great.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android.
    With the same arguments being made. Android is "open" and
    represents "freedom" (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and
    iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a
    "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years ago). It is all
    just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for "real
    men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄

    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the
    laptop market, where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max
    CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a nice bump
    in October sales:
    And kicks the ass of just about anything Windows.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue
    about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM.
    ARC vs ZIP. Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved
    on.

    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go
    through his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of
    some iMac Pro rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop
    seen...
    I recently got a Mac mini as my main work computer, and the Dell
    Ultrasharp curved 40" monitor on a swivel stand, so I don't think
    an iMac is for me anymore. When and if the Mac mini gets the new
    Apple Silicone, I may switch it up. Super happy with the Mac mini.


    -- Sandman

    Only if you need all that power for media production. My 4 year old
    HP Envy loads browser pages, opens emails, edits Office files etc. at >>> similar speeds to this spanking new base model 16" M1 MacBook Pro.
    1. Bullshit. It does it all more slowly. Do a side by side video of
    booting, launching applications, etc.
    It's not as pretty, the trackpad not as nice, the screen is lower
    res, but it does the job. The battery life is nice too, 94% left
    after 1.5 hours of use! The HP would be at 70% about now. My new
    MacBook is simply a luxury I can afford.
    2. A "luxury" that can apparently run an external display that the HP
    cannot...

    ...as you've told has you "have to" return it.

    I'm thinking about producing a YouTube comparison between the two.
    Do it.

    Oh, wait! You've cleverly made that an impossibility now, haven't you,
    Idiot?
    Do you also believe NASA staged the moon landings in a studio? Or that the U.S. CIA sponsored the 9/11 attacks?

    No and no.

    Now ask me if I trust you to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing
    but the truth.


    Bing for 'functionally illiterate fraud' and Dustin Cook is on the first
    page: <https://www.bing.com/search?q=Dustin%20Cook%20functionally%20illiterate%20fraud>.
    Not only did Snit's question not mention the "desktop", it has _nothing_
    to do with UNIX. Mike Easter should stop sniffing glue. You are ten seconds away from being in everyone's kill filter. Socks that Mike Easter can't
    prove are mine. Why would I, or anyone, create socks to say what we all repeatedly say about Mike Easter?

    Mike Easter is the only person I know who had a 'blog' intended to dox
    me that quickly turned into broken links with placeholders where maps/multimedia
    used to be, and if you clicked it, you would be reading about a peer reviewed paper that was deleted for malware.

    --
    This Trick Gets Women Hot For You https://www.walmart.com/browse/books/family-kids-books/cary-fagan/3920_582053_585918/YnJhbmQ6Q2FyeSBGYWdhbgieie
    https://www.google.com/search?q=dustin+cook+the+functionally+illiterate+fraud Steve Carroll the Narcissistic Bigot

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Steve - fretwizzer 4211@21:1/5 to Alan on Thu Dec 2 01:14:25 2021
    On Monday, November 29, 2021 at 6:44:53 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-29 4:28 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 8:58:18 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-17 5:36 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 2:59:46 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-13 7:59 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 4:39:33 AM UTC-5, Sandman wrote: >>>>>> In article <36b08647-04ae-48db...@googlegroups.com>, -hh wrote: >>>>>>
    John <nos...@nospam.com>wrote:

    John: Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was
    supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly >>>>>>>>> any effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta >>>>>>>>> who went by the name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he >>>>>>>>> passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a >>>>>>>>> guy named George Graves who was an interesting character who >>>>>>>>> was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also.
    There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - >>>>>>>>> not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup >>>>>>> earlier this week; last I checked up on him, they were doing
    okay; his blog has some nice pics of his new home & office
    layout, etc.
    I'm doing just fine, moved my office home indeed, and it's working >>>>>> great.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android. >>>>>>>> With the same arguments being made. Android is "open" and
    represents "freedom" (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and >>>>>>>> iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a
    "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years ago). It is all >>>>>>>> just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for "real >>>>>>>> men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄

    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the >>>>>>> laptop market, where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max
    CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a nice bump >>>>>>> in October sales:
    And kicks the ass of just about anything Windows.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue >>>>>>>> about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM. >>>>>>>> ARC vs ZIP. Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved >>>>>>>> on.

    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go
    through his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of >>>>>>> some iMac Pro rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop >>>>>>> seen...
    I recently got a Mac mini as my main work computer, and the Dell >>>>>> Ultrasharp curved 40" monitor on a swivel stand, so I don't think >>>>>> an iMac is for me anymore. When and if the Mac mini gets the new >>>>>> Apple Silicone, I may switch it up. Super happy with the Mac mini. >>>>>>

    -- Sandman

    Only if you need all that power for media production. My 4 year old >>>>> HP Envy loads browser pages, opens emails, edits Office files etc. at >>>>> similar speeds to this spanking new base model 16" M1 MacBook Pro. >>>> 1. Bullshit. It does it all more slowly. Do a side by side video of >>>> booting, launching applications, etc.
    It's not as pretty, the trackpad not as nice, the screen is lower >>>>> res, but it does the job. The battery life is nice too, 94% left
    after 1.5 hours of use! The HP would be at 70% about now. My new
    MacBook is simply a luxury I can afford.
    2. A "luxury" that can apparently run an external display that the HP >>>> cannot...

    ...as you've told has you "have to" return it.

    I'm thinking about producing a YouTube comparison between the two. >>>> Do it.

    Oh, wait! You've cleverly made that an impossibility now, haven't you, >>>> Idiot?
    Do you also believe NASA staged the moon landings in a studio? Or that the U.S. CIA sponsored the 9/11 attacks?

    No and no.

    Now ask me if I trust you to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing >> but the truth.

    You don't trust anybody who does not agree with your narrative. Calling people liars is just a cheap way to discredit.

    I call you a liar, Idiot...

    ...because you have regularly lied.


    Dustin Cook AKA Diesel AKA Gremlin lying about his 1-423-491-1448 phone number:

    <XnsAC34A629C8F3DHT1@1b2yUZpg51V1q.6EF009.jKrc>
    -----
    Prior to my giving you that cell number, there was no way
    at all for you to link it to me in any possible way shape
    or form. it doesn't come up in any records search on me.
    It is using a recycled number, but damn near everything is
    these days so that doesn't count as public information,
    snit.
    ...
    As in, the cell doesn't come back to me, wouldn't ever
    come back to me, therefore the fact *I* have that cell
    number is NOT public information. I find it very hard to
    believe that even you'd have difficulty understanding this
    concept.
    -----

    <XnsAC32ADC5A8EECHT1@VoX89Pwp95.083.GODrcd>
    -----
    I've only been sharing whats available via a public
    database. You haven't. :)
    -----

    <XnsAC34A62BCD27FHT1@1b2yUZpg51V1q.6EF009.jKrc>
    -----
    You cannot find any link to that number to me on any
    database. Which makes it private. not public as you
    incorrectly assume.
    -----

    <XnsAC34A62CD62DDHT1@1b2yUZpg51V1q.6EF009.jKrc>
    -----
    Your number, even tied to your name, is in a public
    database.

    No, it's not. You already tried to link the two of us
    previously.
    -----

    <XnsAC34A62EE3F39HT1@1b2yUZpg51V1q.6EF009.jKrc>
    -----
    It's not a publically known number that links to me. And
    he knows that.
    -----

    <XnsAC34A62BCD27FHT1@1b2yUZpg51V1q.6EF009.jKrc>
    -----
    The number is NOT TIED TO ME in any public database, in
    any way shape or form. You cannot get the number aside
    from my having provided it to you via a google search or a
    public records search.
    -----

    <XnsAC34A62ACDF8HT1@1b2yUZpg51V1q.6EF009.jKrc>
    -----
    Regardless of where the number shows up, it doesn't tie
    itself to me, and you cannot associate the number with me
    via a google search, OR any number of free/paid public
    records searches. Therefore, that is PRIVATE information
    that you think you're holding over my head, not public as
    you erroneously think here.
    -----

    <XnsAC34A62A42D90HT1@1b2yUZpg51V1q.6EF009.jKrc>
    -----
    It's not, running my name doesn't provide that cell
    number. The two are not linked in any way shape or form.
    The number itself as is the case with any recycled number
    is in all kinds of databases, but it's not linked to me;
    therefore, that IS PRIVATE information that you can't get
    via a google search or a paid public records search.
    -----

    <XnsAC1D794DE5AD5HT1@889n4Sx8GWE.MNnkz50hZNVS.fh0SYyRp>
    -----
    They are relevant to the fact YOU INSERTED the phone
    number I provided you verbally into a bogus call log video
    you've taken the time to create. When I use the cell I
    provided you the number for to make outbound calls, It
    *ALWAYS* reports Kingsport, TN. Not one single time has it
    ever, nor would it have any reason to report Johnson City.
    It doesn't pick cities at random, it doesn't go by my
    present location, either. That's actually fixed, as is the
    number assigned to the phone.
    -----

    <XnsAC17C66D49387HT1@4uMkH0FFER6s72gSy7J8N4B67.Mht3WTC373bt67J31gn>
    -----
    You didn't even score the right city, Snit. And, the
    correct city is common, public knowledge with the regulars
    here. The moment you unblocked 'Johnson City' in your
    videos, you were busted.
    -----

    <XnsAC212DEE4D1DCHT1@gt3i2B7y.5N0FOv3e210vLOej4O4doj8b>
    -----
    David, every single Address you've posted that's supposed
    to be mine has been Kingsport. Not Johnson City. Don't you
    think you should tell snit that was a fuckup on his part
    by now? :)
    -----

    <XnsAC21106DF6C20HT1@3R4NM89td0T86C.231IPkH>
    -----
    His response to that was to file a report with the
    kingsport,tn police. Well hell, why not the johnson city
    ones? That's where he claimed the call said it originated
    from. :)
    -----

    --
    Top Six Ways William Poaster Trolls https://www.womply.com/biz/89a-dental-care-prescott-valley-AZ/
    Automate Google Groups https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/Petruzzellis$20or$20Carroll
    https://search.givewater.com/serp?q=Steve+Petruzzellis+%22NARCISSISTIC+BIGOT%22 Dustin Cook is a functionally illiterate fraud

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Steven Carrolll@21:1/5 to Steven Carrolll on Thu Dec 2 09:32:10 2021
    On Thursday, December 2, 2021 at 2:14:27 AM UTC-7, Steven Carrolll wrote:
    On Monday, November 29, 2021 at 6:44:53 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-29 4:28 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 8:58:18 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-17 5:36 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 2:59:46 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-13 7:59 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 4:39:33 AM UTC-5, Sandman wrote: >>>>>> In article <36b08647-04ae-48db...@googlegroups.com>, -hh wrote: >>>>>>
    John <nos...@nospam.com>wrote:

    John: Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was >>>>>>>>> supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly >>>>>>>>> any effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta >>>>>>>>> who went by the name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he >>>>>>>>> passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a >>>>>>>>> guy named George Graves who was an interesting character who >>>>>>>>> was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also. >>>>>>>>> There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - >>>>>>>>> not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup >>>>>>> earlier this week; last I checked up on him, they were doing >>>>>>> okay; his blog has some nice pics of his new home & office
    layout, etc.
    I'm doing just fine, moved my office home indeed, and it's working >>>>>> great.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android. >>>>>>>> With the same arguments being made. Android is "open" and >>>>>>>> represents "freedom" (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and >>>>>>>> iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a >>>>>>>> "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years ago). It is all >>>>>>>> just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for "real >>>>>>>> men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄

    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the >>>>>>> laptop market, where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max
    CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a nice bump >>>>>>> in October sales:
    And kicks the ass of just about anything Windows.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue >>>>>>>> about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM. >>>>>>>> ARC vs ZIP. Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved >>>>>>>> on.

    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go
    through his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of >>>>>>> some iMac Pro rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop >>>>>>> seen...
    I recently got a Mac mini as my main work computer, and the Dell >>>>>> Ultrasharp curved 40" monitor on a swivel stand, so I don't think >>>>>> an iMac is for me anymore. When and if the Mac mini gets the new >>>>>> Apple Silicone, I may switch it up. Super happy with the Mac mini. >>>>>>

    -- Sandman

    Only if you need all that power for media production. My 4 year old >>>>> HP Envy loads browser pages, opens emails, edits Office files etc. at
    similar speeds to this spanking new base model 16" M1 MacBook Pro. >>>> 1. Bullshit. It does it all more slowly. Do a side by side video of >>>> booting, launching applications, etc.
    It's not as pretty, the trackpad not as nice, the screen is lower >>>>> res, but it does the job. The battery life is nice too, 94% left >>>>> after 1.5 hours of use! The HP would be at 70% about now. My new >>>>> MacBook is simply a luxury I can afford.
    2. A "luxury" that can apparently run an external display that the HP >>>> cannot...

    ...as you've told has you "have to" return it.

    I'm thinking about producing a YouTube comparison between the two. >>>> Do it.

    Oh, wait! You've cleverly made that an impossibility now, haven't you,
    Idiot?
    Do you also believe NASA staged the moon landings in a studio? Or that the U.S. CIA sponsored the 9/11 attacks?

    No and no.

    Now ask me if I trust you to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing
    but the truth.

    You don't trust anybody who does not agree with your narrative. Calling people liars is just a cheap way to discredit.

    I call you a liar, Idiot...

    ...because you have regularly lied.
    Dustin Cook AKA Diesel AKA Gremlin lying about his 1-423-491-1448 phone number:

    <XnsAC34A6...@1b2yUZpg51V1q.6EF009.jKrc>
    -----
    Prior to my giving you that cell number, there was no way
    at all for you to link it to me in any possible way shape
    or form. it doesn't come up in any records search on me.
    It is using a recycled number, but damn near everything is
    these days so that doesn't count as public information,
    snit.
    ...
    As in, the cell doesn't come back to me, wouldn't ever
    come back to me, therefore the fact *I* have that cell
    number is NOT public information. I find it very hard to
    believe that even you'd have difficulty understanding this
    concept.
    -----

    <XnsAC32AD...@VoX89Pwp95.083.GODrcd>
    -----
    I've only been sharing whats available via a public
    database. You haven't. :)
    -----

    <XnsAC34A6...@1b2yUZpg51V1q.6EF009.jKrc>
    -----
    You cannot find any link to that number to me on any
    database. Which makes it private. not public as you
    incorrectly assume.
    -----

    <XnsAC34A6...@1b2yUZpg51V1q.6EF009.jKrc>
    -----
    Your number, even tied to your name, is in a public
    database.

    No, it's not. You already tried to link the two of us
    previously.
    -----

    <XnsAC34A6...@1b2yUZpg51V1q.6EF009.jKrc>
    -----
    It's not a publically known number that links to me. And
    he knows that.
    -----

    <XnsAC34A6...@1b2yUZpg51V1q.6EF009.jKrc>
    -----
    The number is NOT TIED TO ME in any public database, in
    any way shape or form. You cannot get the number aside
    from my having provided it to you via a google search or a
    public records search.
    -----

    <XnsAC34A6...@1b2yUZpg51V1q.6EF009.jKrc>
    -----
    Regardless of where the number shows up, it doesn't tie
    itself to me, and you cannot associate the number with me
    via a google search, OR any number of free/paid public
    records searches. Therefore, that is PRIVATE information
    that you think you're holding over my head, not public as
    you erroneously think here.
    -----

    <XnsAC34A6...@1b2yUZpg51V1q.6EF009.jKrc>
    -----
    It's not, running my name doesn't provide that cell
    number. The two are not linked in any way shape or form.
    The number itself as is the case with any recycled number
    is in all kinds of databases, but it's not linked to me;
    therefore, that IS PRIVATE information that you can't get
    via a google search or a paid public records search.
    -----

    <XnsAC1D79...@889n4Sx8GWE.MNnkz50hZNVS.fh0SYyRp>
    -----
    They are relevant to the fact YOU INSERTED the phone
    number I provided you verbally into a bogus call log video
    you've taken the time to create. When I use the cell I
    provided you the number for to make outbound calls, It
    *ALWAYS* reports Kingsport, TN. Not one single time has it
    ever, nor would it have any reason to report Johnson City.
    It doesn't pick cities at random, it doesn't go by my
    present location, either. That's actually fixed, as is the
    number assigned to the phone.
    -----

    <XnsAC17C6...@4uMkH0FFER6s72gSy7J8N4B67.Mht3WTC373bt67J31gn>
    -----
    You didn't even score the right city, Snit. And, the
    correct city is common, public knowledge with the regulars
    here. The moment you unblocked 'Johnson City' in your
    videos, you were busted.
    -----

    <XnsAC212D...@gt3i2B7y.5N0FOv3e210vLOej4O4doj8b>
    -----
    David, every single Address you've posted that's supposed
    to be mine has been Kingsport. Not Johnson City. Don't you
    think you should tell snit that was a fuckup on his part
    by now? :)
    -----

    <XnsAC2110...@3R4NM89td0T86C.231IPkH>
    -----
    His response to that was to file a report with the
    kingsport,tn police. Well hell, why not the johnson city
    ones? That's where he claimed the call said it originated
    from. :)
    -----

    --
    Top Six Ways William Poaster Trolls https://www.womply.com/biz/89a-dental-care-prescott-valley-AZ/
    Automate Google Groups https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/Petruzzellis$20or$20Carroll
    https://search.givewater.com/serp?q=Steve+Petruzzellis+%22NARCISSISTIC+BIGOT%22
    Dustin Cook is a functionally illiterate fraud


    Frankly I do not really give a shit. This is something you merely pretend
    to understand. The clam engine had a false negative hit, and the GUI Clamtk reported what the kernel which isn't created by the same people or company reported it.

    No-one gets it, I ain't done gone got it.

    Snit must have read Just Wondering signature lines and became insanely protective.
    I suspect this is not our first demonstration of the improved Snit.


    -
    Eight things to never feed your cat https://www.perkinscoie.com/en/professionals/michael-glaser.html https://swisscows.com/web?query=%22narcissistic%20bigot%22 https://v5.yc.edu/webtools/search/srchproc.asp
    Dustin Cook is a functionally illiterate fraud

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Steve Carroll@21:1/5 to Steve Carroll on Thu Dec 2 11:24:11 2021
    On Thursday, December 2, 2021 at 12:05:03 AM UTC-7, Steve Carroll wrote:
    On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 6:58:18 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-17 5:36 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 2:59:46 PM UTC-5, Alan wrote:
    On 2021-11-13 7:59 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
    On Saturday, November 13, 2021 at 4:39:33 AM UTC-5, Sandman wrote: >>>> In article <36b08647-04ae-48db...@googlegroups.com>, -hh wrote:

    John <nos...@nospam.com>wrote:

    John: Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was
    supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly >>>>>>> any effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta >>>>>>> who went by the name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he
    passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a
    guy named George Graves who was an interesting character who >>>>>>> was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also.
    There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - >>>>>>> not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    I noticed a post from Jonas (aka Sandman) on another newsgroup
    earlier this week; last I checked up on him, they were doing
    okay; his blog has some nice pics of his new home & office
    layout, etc.
    I'm doing just fine, moved my office home indeed, and it's working >>>> great.
    These days, the "advocacy" is between iOS/iPadOS and Android. >>>>>> With the same arguments being made. Android is "open" and
    represents "freedom" (just like Windows did 30 years ago) and >>>>>> iOS/iPadOS is the choice for "lemmings" who want to make a
    "fashion statement" (just like Macs 30 years ago). It is all
    just as silly and stupid as ever. Android/Windows is for "real >>>>>> men" and anything from Apple is for "kiddies". 🙄

    Well, from an advocacy standpoint, the news this week is on the >>>>> laptop market, where Apple's release of the M1 Pro/Max
    CPU-equipped MacBook Pro's has apparently given them a nice bump >>>>> in October sales:
    And kicks the ass of just about anything Windows.
    But again, this is all ancient history. We might as well argue >>>>>> about VHS vs Beta VCRs. AOL vs Compuserve. XMODEM vs ZMODEM.
    ARC vs ZIP. Mac vs Windows. No one cares. The world has moved >>>>>> on.

    Pretty much. It has been interesting to watch Tom Elam go
    through his 'discovery' period, though. Meantime, I'm hearing of >>>>> some iMac Pro rumors that might tempt me to get a new desktop
    seen...
    I recently got a Mac mini as my main work computer, and the Dell
    Ultrasharp curved 40" monitor on a swivel stand, so I don't think >>>> an iMac is for me anymore. When and if the Mac mini gets the new
    Apple Silicone, I may switch it up. Super happy with the Mac mini. >>>>

    -- Sandman

    Only if you need all that power for media production. My 4 year old >>> HP Envy loads browser pages, opens emails, edits Office files etc. at >>> similar speeds to this spanking new base model 16" M1 MacBook Pro.
    1. Bullshit. It does it all more slowly. Do a side by side video of
    booting, launching applications, etc.
    It's not as pretty, the trackpad not as nice, the screen is lower
    res, but it does the job. The battery life is nice too, 94% left
    after 1.5 hours of use! The HP would be at 70% about now. My new
    MacBook is simply a luxury I can afford.
    2. A "luxury" that can apparently run an external display that the HP >> cannot...

    ...as you've told has you "have to" return it.

    I'm thinking about producing a YouTube comparison between the two.
    Do it.

    Oh, wait! You've cleverly made that an impossibility now, haven't you, >> Idiot?
    Do you also believe NASA staged the moon landings in a studio? Or that the U.S. CIA sponsored the 9/11 attacks?

    No and no.

    Now ask me if I trust you to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
    Bing for 'functionally illiterate fraud' and Dustin Cook is on the first page: <https://www.bing.com/search?q=Dustin%20Cook%20functionally%20illiterate%20fraud>.
    Not only did Snit's question not mention the "desktop", it has _nothing_
    to do with UNIX. Mike Easter should stop sniffing glue. You are ten seconds away from being in everyone's kill filter. Socks that Mike Easter can't prove are mine. Why would I, or anyone, create socks to say what we all repeatedly say about Mike Easter?

    Mike Easter is the only person I know who had a 'blog' intended to dox
    me that quickly turned into broken links with placeholders where maps/multimedia
    used to be, and if you clicked it, you would be reading about a peer reviewed
    paper that was deleted for malware.

    --
    This Trick Gets Women Hot For You https://www.walmart.com/browse/books/family-kids-books/cary-fagan/3920_582053_585918/YnJhbmQ6Q2FyeSBGYWdhbgieie
    https://www.google.com/search?q=dustin+cook+the+functionally+illiterate+fraud
    Steve Carroll the Narcissistic Bigot


    Everyone is Snit Glasser Michael -- the oldest gag in the book. Having to suffer the use of 3d printers is too much for Snit Glasser Michael to deal with. At times, an inner world is more valuable than truth. Another bottle
    you mean, Snit Glasser Michael drinks them down pretty quick.

    Effectively everything Snit Glasser Michael says about anyone else is a
    lie. Who isn't aware of this by now?

    I believe we have two different notions completely.


    --
    Best CMS Solution of 2017 https://gibiru.com/results.html?q=Steve+Petruzzellis+%22NARCISSISTIC+BIGOT%22 <https://www.truepeoplesearch.com/details?phoneno=4234911448&rid=0x0&Diesel&Gremlin&Dustin_Cook>
    Steve Petruzzellis the Narcissistic Bigot

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jaden Amber@21:1/5 to John on Thu Dec 16 10:00:27 2021
    I was active in this forum all those years ago. Actually contacted Joe outside of the forum. Went under a different name and was a mid-tier prolific presence defending the Mac from the early 90s, through Apple's near death rattle years, then slowly
    drifted away after Jobs arrived and the Cupertino ship righted itself and Apple ultimately became one of the most powerful companies in the world.

    Who needs advocacy at that point?

    But most folks don't remember the late 90s when Microsoft nearly walked away with it all. Long before the kinder, gentler Bill Gates arrived and Netscape was told Redmond would suck their air supply, or where Intuit was another acquisition target, but
    when that failed, MS dumped it's Microsoft Money for free in order to suck its air supply. Or the video testimony that had been doctored by Microsoft in trying to prove the Internet Explorer could not be removed from Windows. Had it not be for Linus
    Torvalds, Steve Jobs and Google's Page and Brin and all the other emerging wild Internet billionaires who chafed at being muscled by Microsoft, we would all be looking a different kind of screen right now. Maybe not horrible, but probably something a lot
    clunkier.

    My mantra back then was that competition was good. And it is good. All these years later I'm very satisfied with my Macs, iPhones and iPads and the stuff I create with them. Gun to my head, I can use Windows better than most folks my age, but why?
    Thankfully for Adobe and PDF and other relatively open protocols I don't have to worry about compatibility like we all did back in the 90s and early 2000s.

    Microsoft is no longer - well not really - the evil empire that they were back then. And I say that acknowledging that they made a lot of worthy products, and I've gotten to know some great people who work or have worked there.

    It's just that things were soooo out of balance back then. So precarious. And some of the Windows advocates were smart and civil, but others were just trolls to the nth degree. Maybe this was all just a tempest in a teapot and the words we exchanged didn'
    t go beyond this forum. Maybe it was just a bit of therapy or sparring or whatever.

    Regardless, I liked Joe. I liked a number of the other folks here, and came back on the regular to hear from them. Today Apple needs advocacy like Elon Musk needs more money. Thankfully the bigger issue is about security, staying current with technology
    and wondering if Cupertino is ever going to fill up that big spaceship ring building with people after Covid. Probably...

    Been a long time. Felt the itch to check out the old UseNet (now Google Group) and do a search on "Ragosta." Sorry to hear he passed so young. Imagine he lived a good life and is in a better place. One that doesn't greet its arrivals with a C:\>

    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 10:21:34 AM UTC-8, John wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was
    performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I
    recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting character
    who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows
    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. Ever
    since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac has come
    since my first experiences with it at work in the nineties. Classic Mac
    OS sure was an embarrasment.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Dago@21:1/5 to Jaden Amber on Thu Dec 16 18:34:57 2021
    Jaden Amber <jadenamber66@gmail.com> wrote in news:2a2472d9-b107-41e2-88a1-edc3e881cb09n@googlegroups.com:

    I was active in this forum all those years ago. Actually contacted
    Joe outside of the forum. Went under a different name and was a
    mid-tier prolific presence defending the Mac from the early 90s,
    through Apple's near death rattle years, then slowly drifted away
    after Jobs arrived and the Cupertino ship righted itself and Apple
    ultimately became one of the most powerful companies in the world.

    Who needs advocacy at that point?

    But most folks don't remember the late 90s when Microsoft nearly
    walked away with it all. Long before the kinder, gentler Bill
    Gates arrived and Netscape was told Redmond would suck their air
    supply, or where Intuit was another acquisition target, but when
    that failed, MS dumped it's Microsoft Money for free in order to
    suck its air supply. Or the video testimony that had been doctored
    by Microsoft in trying to prove the Internet Explorer could not be
    removed from Windows. Had it not be for Linus Torvalds, Steve Jobs
    and Google's Page and Brin and all the other emerging wild
    Internet billionaires who chafed at being muscled by Microsoft, we
    would all be looking a different kind of screen right now. Maybe
    not horrible, but probably something a lot clunkier.

    My mantra back then was that competition was good. And it is good.
    All these years later I'm very satisfied with my Macs, iPhones and
    iPads and the stuff I create with them. Gun to my head, I can use
    Windows better than most folks my age, but why? Thankfully for
    Adobe and PDF and other relatively open protocols I don't have to
    worry about compatibility like we all did back in the 90s and
    early 2000s.

    Microsoft is no longer - well not really - the evil empire that
    they were back then. And I say that acknowledging that they made a
    lot of worthy products, and I've gotten to know some great people
    who work or have worked there.

    It's just that things were soooo out of balance back then. So
    precarious. And some of the Windows advocates were smart and
    civil, but others were just trolls to the nth degree. Maybe this
    was all just a tempest in a teapot and the words we exchanged
    didn't go beyond this forum. Maybe it was just a bit of therapy or
    sparring or whatever.

    Regardless, I liked Joe. I liked a number of the other folks here,
    and came back on the regular to hear from them. Today Apple needs
    advocacy like Elon Musk needs more money. Thankfully the bigger
    issue is about security, staying current with technology and
    wondering if Cupertino is ever going to fill up that big spaceship
    ring building with people after Covid. Probably...

    Been a long time. Felt the itch to check out the old UseNet (now
    Google Group) and do a search on "Ragosta." Sorry to hear he
    passed so young. Imagine he lived a good life and is in a better
    place. One that doesn't greet its arrivals with a C:\>

    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 10:21:34 AM UTC-8, John wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be
    a Mac

    advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was
    performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as
    I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young
    age of 55.

    There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting
    character who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed
    also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around
    - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a
    Windows

    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac.
    Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac
    has come since my first experiences with it at work in the
    nineties. Classic Mac

    OS sure was an embarrasment.


    Snit turned CSMA into a troll fest so many of the regulars left.
    AFAIK, Sandman is still alive and kicking.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John@21:1/5 to Phil Dago on Sun Dec 19 19:11:05 2021
    On 12/16/2021 10:34 AM, Phil Dago wrote:
    Jaden Amber <jadenamber66@gmail.com> wrote in news:2a2472d9-b107-41e2-88a1-edc3e881cb09n@googlegroups.com:

    I was active in this forum all those years ago. Actually contacted
    Joe outside of the forum. Went under a different name and was a
    mid-tier prolific presence defending the Mac from the early 90s,
    through Apple's near death rattle years, then slowly drifted away
    after Jobs arrived and the Cupertino ship righted itself and Apple
    ultimately became one of the most powerful companies in the world.

    Who needs advocacy at that point?

    But most folks don't remember the late 90s when Microsoft nearly
    walked away with it all. Long before the kinder, gentler Bill
    Gates arrived and Netscape was told Redmond would suck their air
    supply, or where Intuit was another acquisition target, but when
    that failed, MS dumped it's Microsoft Money for free in order to
    suck its air supply. Or the video testimony that had been doctored
    by Microsoft in trying to prove the Internet Explorer could not be
    removed from Windows. Had it not be for Linus Torvalds, Steve Jobs
    and Google's Page and Brin and all the other emerging wild
    Internet billionaires who chafed at being muscled by Microsoft, we
    would all be looking a different kind of screen right now. Maybe
    not horrible, but probably something a lot clunkier.

    My mantra back then was that competition was good. And it is good.
    All these years later I'm very satisfied with my Macs, iPhones and
    iPads and the stuff I create with them. Gun to my head, I can use
    Windows better than most folks my age, but why? Thankfully for
    Adobe and PDF and other relatively open protocols I don't have to
    worry about compatibility like we all did back in the 90s and
    early 2000s.

    Microsoft is no longer - well not really - the evil empire that
    they were back then. And I say that acknowledging that they made a
    lot of worthy products, and I've gotten to know some great people
    who work or have worked there.

    It's just that things were soooo out of balance back then. So
    precarious. And some of the Windows advocates were smart and
    civil, but others were just trolls to the nth degree. Maybe this
    was all just a tempest in a teapot and the words we exchanged
    didn't go beyond this forum. Maybe it was just a bit of therapy or
    sparring or whatever.

    Regardless, I liked Joe. I liked a number of the other folks here,
    and came back on the regular to hear from them. Today Apple needs
    advocacy like Elon Musk needs more money. Thankfully the bigger
    issue is about security, staying current with technology and
    wondering if Cupertino is ever going to fill up that big spaceship
    ring building with people after Covid. Probably...

    Been a long time. Felt the itch to check out the old UseNet (now
    Google Group) and do a search on "Ragosta." Sorry to hear he
    passed so young. Imagine he lived a good life and is in a better
    place. One that doesn't greet its arrivals with a C:\>

    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 10:21:34 AM UTC-8, John wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be
    a Mac

    advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was
    performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as
    I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young
    age of 55.

    There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting
    character who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed
    also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around
    - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a
    Windows

    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac.
    Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac
    has come since my first experiences with it at work in the
    nineties. Classic Mac

    OS sure was an embarrasment.


    Snit turned CSMA into a troll fest so many of the regulars left.
    AFAIK, Sandman is still alive and kicking.



    So is George Graves from my research.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John@21:1/5 to Jaden Amber on Sun Dec 19 19:10:25 2021
    On 12/16/2021 10:00 AM, Jaden Amber wrote:
    I was active in this forum all those years ago. Actually contacted Joe outside of the forum. Went under a different name and was a mid-tier prolific presence defending the Mac from the early 90s, through Apple's near death rattle years, then slowly
    drifted away after Jobs arrived and the Cupertino ship righted itself and Apple ultimately became one of the most powerful companies in the world.

    Who needs advocacy at that point?

    But most folks don't remember the late 90s when Microsoft nearly walked away with it all. Long before the kinder, gentler Bill Gates arrived and Netscape was told Redmond would suck their air supply, or where Intuit was another acquisition target, but
    when that failed, MS dumped it's Microsoft Money for free in order to suck its air supply. Or the video testimony that had been doctored by Microsoft in trying to prove the Internet Explorer could not be removed from Windows. Had it not be for Linus
    Torvalds, Steve Jobs and Google's Page and Brin and all the other emerging wild Internet billionaires who chafed at being muscled by Microsoft, we would all be looking a different kind of screen right now. Maybe not horrible, but probably something a lot
    clunkier.

    My mantra back then was that competition was good. And it is good. All these years later I'm very satisfied with my Macs, iPhones and iPads and the stuff I create with them. Gun to my head, I can use Windows better than most folks my age, but why?
    Thankfully for Adobe and PDF and other relatively open protocols I don't have to worry about compatibility like we all did back in the 90s and early 2000s.

    Microsoft is no longer - well not really - the evil empire that they were back then. And I say that acknowledging that they made a lot of worthy products, and I've gotten to know some great people who work or have worked there.

    It's just that things were soooo out of balance back then. So precarious. And some of the Windows advocates were smart and civil, but others were just trolls to the nth degree. Maybe this was all just a tempest in a teapot and the words we exchanged
    didn't go beyond this forum. Maybe it was just a bit of therapy or sparring or whatever.

    Regardless, I liked Joe. I liked a number of the other folks here, and came back on the regular to hear from them. Today Apple needs advocacy like Elon Musk needs more money. Thankfully the bigger issue is about security, staying current with
    technology and wondering if Cupertino is ever going to fill up that big spaceship ring building with people after Covid. Probably...

    Been a long time. Felt the itch to check out the old UseNet (now Google Group) and do a search on "Ragosta." Sorry to hear he passed so young. Imagine he lived a good life and is in a better place. One that doesn't greet its arrivals with a C:\>

    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 10:21:34 AM UTC-8, John wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be a Mac
    advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was
    performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I
    recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young age of 55.
    There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting character
    who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also. There was
    Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any real
    advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows
    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. Ever
    since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac has come
    since my first experiences with it at work in the nineties. Classic Mac
    OS sure was an embarrasment.



    Thanks for the nice post Jaden. Its nice to see an on topic post. We
    have a crazed 5150 person on here who litters the newsgroup with crazed paranoia. Its nice to see something sane once in a while.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Smit@21:1/5 to Jaden Amber on Wed Dec 22 12:01:29 2021
    On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 11:00:29 AM UTC-7, Jaden Amber wrote:
    I was active in this forum all those years ago. Actually contacted Joe outside of the forum. Went under a different name and was a mid-tier prolific presence defending the Mac from the early 90s, through Apple's near death rattle years, then slowly
    drifted away after Jobs arrived and the Cupertino ship righted itself and Apple ultimately became one of the most powerful companies in the world.

    Who needs advocacy at that point?

    But most folks don't remember the late 90s when Microsoft nearly walked away with it all. Long before the kinder, gentler Bill Gates arrived and Netscape was told Redmond would suck their air supply, or where Intuit was another acquisition target, but
    when that failed, MS dumped it's Microsoft Money for free in order to suck its air supply. Or the video testimony that had been doctored by Microsoft in trying to prove the Internet Explorer could not be removed from Windows. Had it not be for Linus
    Torvalds, Steve Jobs and Google's Page and Brin and all the other emerging wild Internet billionaires who chafed at being muscled by Microsoft, we would all be looking a different kind of screen right now. Maybe not horrible, but probably something a lot
    clunkier.

    My mantra back then was that competition was good. And it is good. All these years later I'm very satisfied with my Macs, iPhones and iPads and the stuff I create with them. Gun to my head, I can use Windows better than most folks my age, but why?
    Thankfully for Adobe and PDF and other relatively open protocols I don't have to worry about compatibility like we all did back in the 90s and early 2000s.

    Microsoft is no longer - well not really - the evil empire that they were back then. And I say that acknowledging that they made a lot of worthy products, and I've gotten to know some great people who work or have worked there.

    It's just that things were soooo out of balance back then. So precarious. And some of the Windows advocates were smart and civil, but others were just trolls to the nth degree. Maybe this was all just a tempest in a teapot and the words we exchanged
    didn't go beyond this forum. Maybe it was just a bit of therapy or sparring or whatever.

    Regardless, I liked Joe. I liked a number of the other folks here, and came back on the regular to hear from them. Today Apple needs advocacy like Elon Musk needs more money. Thankfully the bigger issue is about security, staying current with
    technology and wondering if Cupertino is ever going to fill up that big spaceship ring building with people after Covid. Probably...

    Been a long time. Felt the itch to check out the old UseNet (now Google Group) and do a search on "Ragosta." Sorry to hear he passed so young. Imagine he lived a good life and is in a better place. One that doesn't greet its arrivals with a C:\>
    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 10:21:34 AM UTC-8, John wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I
    recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting character
    who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows
    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. Ever
    since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac has come
    since my first experiences with it at work in the nineties. Classic Mac
    OS sure was an embarrasment.


    Effectively everything Sigmond says about William Poaster is dishonest
    as everyone knows. At times, a make believe world is more valuable than
    facts. What do you get out of lying, Sigmond?

    -
    Top Ten Ways Sigmond Trolls https://www.bing.com/search?q=Steve+Petruzzellis%3A+narcissistic+bigot https://www.bing.com/search?q=steve%20carroll%20narcissistic%20bigot
    Dustin Cook: Functionally Illiterate Fraud

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas E.@21:1/5 to John on Wed Dec 22 15:22:18 2021
    On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 10:11:12 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
    On 12/16/2021 10:34 AM, Phil Dago wrote:
    Jaden Amber <jadena...@gmail.com> wrote in news:2a2472d9-b107-41e2...@googlegroups.com:

    I was active in this forum all those years ago. Actually contacted
    Joe outside of the forum. Went under a different name and was a
    mid-tier prolific presence defending the Mac from the early 90s,
    through Apple's near death rattle years, then slowly drifted away
    after Jobs arrived and the Cupertino ship righted itself and Apple
    ultimately became one of the most powerful companies in the world.

    Who needs advocacy at that point?

    But most folks don't remember the late 90s when Microsoft nearly
    walked away with it all. Long before the kinder, gentler Bill
    Gates arrived and Netscape was told Redmond would suck their air
    supply, or where Intuit was another acquisition target, but when
    that failed, MS dumped it's Microsoft Money for free in order to
    suck its air supply. Or the video testimony that had been doctored
    by Microsoft in trying to prove the Internet Explorer could not be
    removed from Windows. Had it not be for Linus Torvalds, Steve Jobs
    and Google's Page and Brin and all the other emerging wild
    Internet billionaires who chafed at being muscled by Microsoft, we
    would all be looking a different kind of screen right now. Maybe
    not horrible, but probably something a lot clunkier.

    My mantra back then was that competition was good. And it is good.
    All these years later I'm very satisfied with my Macs, iPhones and
    iPads and the stuff I create with them. Gun to my head, I can use
    Windows better than most folks my age, but why? Thankfully for
    Adobe and PDF and other relatively open protocols I don't have to
    worry about compatibility like we all did back in the 90s and
    early 2000s.

    Microsoft is no longer - well not really - the evil empire that
    they were back then. And I say that acknowledging that they made a
    lot of worthy products, and I've gotten to know some great people
    who work or have worked there.

    It's just that things were soooo out of balance back then. So
    precarious. And some of the Windows advocates were smart and
    civil, but others were just trolls to the nth degree. Maybe this
    was all just a tempest in a teapot and the words we exchanged
    didn't go beyond this forum. Maybe it was just a bit of therapy or
    sparring or whatever.

    Regardless, I liked Joe. I liked a number of the other folks here,
    and came back on the regular to hear from them. Today Apple needs
    advocacy like Elon Musk needs more money. Thankfully the bigger
    issue is about security, staying current with technology and
    wondering if Cupertino is ever going to fill up that big spaceship
    ring building with people after Covid. Probably...

    Been a long time. Felt the itch to check out the old UseNet (now
    Google Group) and do a search on "Ragosta." Sorry to hear he
    passed so young. Imagine he lived a good life and is in a better
    place. One that doesn't greet its arrivals with a C:\>

    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 10:21:34 AM UTC-8, John wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be
    a Mac

    advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was
    performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as
    I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young
    age of 55.

    There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting
    character who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed
    also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around
    - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a
    Windows

    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac.
    Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac
    has come since my first experiences with it at work in the
    nineties. Classic Mac

    OS sure was an embarrasment.


    Snit turned CSMA into a troll fest so many of the regulars left.
    AFAIK, Sandman is still alive and kicking.
    So is George Graves from my research.

    He seems to have dropped off 10-12 years ago, about the same time as Ragosta. He lived in the Bay area, but a quick obit search turned up nothing.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John@21:1/5 to Thomas E. on Wed Dec 22 18:12:19 2021
    On 12/22/2021 3:22 PM, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 10:11:12 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
    On 12/16/2021 10:34 AM, Phil Dago wrote:
    Jaden Amber <jadena...@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:2a2472d9-b107-41e2...@googlegroups.com:

    I was active in this forum all those years ago. Actually contacted
    Joe outside of the forum. Went under a different name and was a
    mid-tier prolific presence defending the Mac from the early 90s,
    through Apple's near death rattle years, then slowly drifted away
    after Jobs arrived and the Cupertino ship righted itself and Apple
    ultimately became one of the most powerful companies in the world.

    Who needs advocacy at that point?

    But most folks don't remember the late 90s when Microsoft nearly
    walked away with it all. Long before the kinder, gentler Bill
    Gates arrived and Netscape was told Redmond would suck their air
    supply, or where Intuit was another acquisition target, but when
    that failed, MS dumped it's Microsoft Money for free in order to
    suck its air supply. Or the video testimony that had been doctored
    by Microsoft in trying to prove the Internet Explorer could not be
    removed from Windows. Had it not be for Linus Torvalds, Steve Jobs
    and Google's Page and Brin and all the other emerging wild
    Internet billionaires who chafed at being muscled by Microsoft, we
    would all be looking a different kind of screen right now. Maybe
    not horrible, but probably something a lot clunkier.

    My mantra back then was that competition was good. And it is good.
    All these years later I'm very satisfied with my Macs, iPhones and
    iPads and the stuff I create with them. Gun to my head, I can use
    Windows better than most folks my age, but why? Thankfully for
    Adobe and PDF and other relatively open protocols I don't have to
    worry about compatibility like we all did back in the 90s and
    early 2000s.

    Microsoft is no longer - well not really - the evil empire that
    they were back then. And I say that acknowledging that they made a
    lot of worthy products, and I've gotten to know some great people
    who work or have worked there.

    It's just that things were soooo out of balance back then. So
    precarious. And some of the Windows advocates were smart and
    civil, but others were just trolls to the nth degree. Maybe this
    was all just a tempest in a teapot and the words we exchanged
    didn't go beyond this forum. Maybe it was just a bit of therapy or
    sparring or whatever.

    Regardless, I liked Joe. I liked a number of the other folks here,
    and came back on the regular to hear from them. Today Apple needs
    advocacy like Elon Musk needs more money. Thankfully the bigger
    issue is about security, staying current with technology and
    wondering if Cupertino is ever going to fill up that big spaceship
    ring building with people after Covid. Probably...

    Been a long time. Felt the itch to check out the old UseNet (now
    Google Group) and do a search on "Ragosta." Sorry to hear he
    passed so young. Imagine he lived a good life and is in a better
    place. One that doesn't greet its arrivals with a C:\>

    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 10:21:34 AM UTC-8, John wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be
    a Mac

    advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was
    performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as
    I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young
    age of 55.

    There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting
    character who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed
    also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around
    - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a
    Windows

    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac.
    Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac
    has come since my first experiences with it at work in the
    nineties. Classic Mac

    OS sure was an embarrasment.


    Snit turned CSMA into a troll fest so many of the regulars left.
    AFAIK, Sandman is still alive and kicking.
    So is George Graves from my research.

    He seems to have dropped off 10-12 years ago, about the same time as Ragosta. He lived in the Bay area, but a quick obit search turned up nothing.


    Here is something on Joe. Poor guy he died at home on CSMA dealing with
    the "wintrolls".

    https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/centredaily/name/joseph-ragosta-obituary?id=14349383

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John@21:1/5 to Thomas E. on Wed Dec 22 18:09:04 2021
    On 12/22/2021 3:22 PM, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 10:11:12 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
    On 12/16/2021 10:34 AM, Phil Dago wrote:
    Jaden Amber <jadena...@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:2a2472d9-b107-41e2...@googlegroups.com:

    I was active in this forum all those years ago. Actually contacted
    Joe outside of the forum. Went under a different name and was a
    mid-tier prolific presence defending the Mac from the early 90s,
    through Apple's near death rattle years, then slowly drifted away
    after Jobs arrived and the Cupertino ship righted itself and Apple
    ultimately became one of the most powerful companies in the world.

    Who needs advocacy at that point?

    But most folks don't remember the late 90s when Microsoft nearly
    walked away with it all. Long before the kinder, gentler Bill
    Gates arrived and Netscape was told Redmond would suck their air
    supply, or where Intuit was another acquisition target, but when
    that failed, MS dumped it's Microsoft Money for free in order to
    suck its air supply. Or the video testimony that had been doctored
    by Microsoft in trying to prove the Internet Explorer could not be
    removed from Windows. Had it not be for Linus Torvalds, Steve Jobs
    and Google's Page and Brin and all the other emerging wild
    Internet billionaires who chafed at being muscled by Microsoft, we
    would all be looking a different kind of screen right now. Maybe
    not horrible, but probably something a lot clunkier.

    My mantra back then was that competition was good. And it is good.
    All these years later I'm very satisfied with my Macs, iPhones and
    iPads and the stuff I create with them. Gun to my head, I can use
    Windows better than most folks my age, but why? Thankfully for
    Adobe and PDF and other relatively open protocols I don't have to
    worry about compatibility like we all did back in the 90s and
    early 2000s.

    Microsoft is no longer - well not really - the evil empire that
    they were back then. And I say that acknowledging that they made a
    lot of worthy products, and I've gotten to know some great people
    who work or have worked there.

    It's just that things were soooo out of balance back then. So
    precarious. And some of the Windows advocates were smart and
    civil, but others were just trolls to the nth degree. Maybe this
    was all just a tempest in a teapot and the words we exchanged
    didn't go beyond this forum. Maybe it was just a bit of therapy or
    sparring or whatever.

    Regardless, I liked Joe. I liked a number of the other folks here,
    and came back on the regular to hear from them. Today Apple needs
    advocacy like Elon Musk needs more money. Thankfully the bigger
    issue is about security, staying current with technology and
    wondering if Cupertino is ever going to fill up that big spaceship
    ring building with people after Covid. Probably...

    Been a long time. Felt the itch to check out the old UseNet (now
    Google Group) and do a search on "Ragosta." Sorry to hear he
    passed so young. Imagine he lived a good life and is in a better
    place. One that doesn't greet its arrivals with a C:\>

    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 10:21:34 AM UTC-8, John wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be
    a Mac

    advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was
    performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as
    I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young
    age of 55.

    There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting
    character who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed
    also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around
    - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a
    Windows

    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac.
    Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac
    has come since my first experiences with it at work in the
    nineties. Classic Mac

    OS sure was an embarrasment.


    Snit turned CSMA into a troll fest so many of the regulars left.
    AFAIK, Sandman is still alive and kicking.
    So is George Graves from my research.

    He seems to have dropped off 10-12 years ago, about the same time as Ragosta. He lived in the Bay area, but a quick obit search turned up nothing.


    From my research George is alive and well. He moved to Toronto and was writing for an audio journal.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sandman@21:1/5 to Phil Dago on Mon Jan 24 10:33:15 2022
    In article <XnsAE028A2B41047442209333@46.165.242.75>, Phil Dago wrote:

    John:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to
    be a Mac

    advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy
    was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name
    Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at
    the young age of 55.

    There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting
    character who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed
    also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still
    around - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the
    others.

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a
    Windows

    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac.
    Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac
    has come since my first experiences with it at work in the
    nineties. Classic Mac

    OS sure was an embarrasment.

    Snit turned CSMA into a troll fest so many of the regulars left.
    AFAIK, Sandman is still alive and kicking.

    More or less :)

    --
    Sandman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From HHI the imaginary friend@21:1/5 to Sandman on Mon Jan 24 05:10:07 2022
    On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 3:33:17 AM UTC-7, Sandman wrote:
    In article <XnsAE028A2B4...@46.165.242.75>, Phil Dago wrote:

    John:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to
    be a Mac

    advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy
    was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name
    Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at
    the young age of 55.

    There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting
    character who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed
    also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still
    around - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the
    others.

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a
    Windows

    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac.
    Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac
    has come since my first experiences with it at work in the
    nineties. Classic Mac

    OS sure was an embarrasment.

    Snit turned CSMA into a troll fest so many of the regulars left.
    AFAIK, Sandman is still alive and kicking.
    More or less :)

    --
    Sandman


    Not only did Snit's question not allude to the "kernel", it has zilch to
    do with Linux. FromTheRafters should get back on his medicine ;) FromTheRafters is the repercussion of the truth that Communists have been employed to subvert educating children. It is not serendipity that he is a mindless Marxist.

    My view is correct. Always correct.

    Reviewing electronics... even now a neophyte... But FromTheRafters feels
    the need to attack the herd.

    --
    Best CMS Solution of 2017!! <https://alt.computer.workshop.narkive.com/dCDisEHZ/dustin-cook-aka-diesel- aka-gremlin-i-fucked-you-over-with-your-bank-account> https://www.google.com/search?q=dustin+cook%3A+functionally+illiterate+fraud <https://www.spokeo.com/Dustin-Cook/Tennessee/Kingsport/p40064865906>
    Dustin Cook is a functional illiterate fraud

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From -hh@21:1/5 to Sandman on Mon Jan 24 06:44:41 2022
    On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 5:33:17 AM UTC-5, Sandman wrote:
    In article <XnsAE028A2B4...@46.165.242.75>, Phil Dago wrote:
    ...
    AFAIK, Sandman is still alive and kicking.

    More or less :)

    Hopefully more of the more <g>

    Going to have to get ourselves back to Scandinavia after all
    of this CoVid disruption has passed ... IRRC, you're well north
    of Stockholm; is there any good places in your general area
    for seasonal viewing of the Northern Lights?


    -hh

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sandman@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 24 17:17:06 2022
    In article <7a9c858d-76a5-4b75-8dd0-9bf62430b928n@googlegroups.com>, -hh
    wrote:

    AFAIK, Sandman is still alive and kicking.

    Sandman:
    More or less :)

    Hopefully more of the more <g>

    Going to have to get ourselves back to Scandinavia after all
    of this CoVid disruption has passed ... IRRC, you're well north
    of Stockholm; is there any good places in your general area
    for seasonal viewing of the Northern Lights?

    I live in Vasteras, which is about an hour west of Stockholm. There were actually northen lights in this area a week ago, I missed it though. You have to go much further north to be more sure to see it if the conditions are
    right.

    In fact, something I would suggest is going to Tromso in Norway. It's way up north but it's so beautiful and special!

    --
    Sandman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From -hh@21:1/5 to Sandman on Mon Jan 24 10:35:00 2022
    On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 12:17:09 PM UTC-5, Sandman wrote:
    -hh wrote:
    AFAIK, Sandman is still alive and kicking.

    Sandman:
    More or less :)

    Hopefully more of the more <g>

    Going to have to get ourselves back to Scandinavia after all
    of this CoVid disruption has passed ... IRRC, you're well north
    of Stockholm; is there any good places in your general area
    for seasonal viewing of the Northern Lights?

    I live in Vasteras, which is about an hour west of Stockholm.

    Ah, I was getting you mixed up with another friend, who was
    from Huljen ... that's the "way up north" location.

    There were actually northen lights in this area a week ago,
    I missed it though. You have to go much further north to be
    more sure to see it if the conditions are right.

    Understood, that's what I was thinking of. Time of year is also
    important too, because it needs to be dark, so summer's not
    a great time (too few hours of darkness); learned that from a
    trip to Iceland a few years ago.


    In fact, something I would suggest is going to Tromso in Norway.
    It's way up north but it's so beautiful and special!

    That's been a main location I've seen recommended before; a local
    photo club went there a few years ago...will have to see if they plan
    to run another trip again soon(ish). Would be nice to combine it
    with a trip to Svalbard, but seasons are wrong for doing both at
    the same time.


    -hh

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas E.@21:1/5 to John on Mon Jan 24 11:02:23 2022
    On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 9:09:11 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
    On 12/22/2021 3:22 PM, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 10:11:12 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
    On 12/16/2021 10:34 AM, Phil Dago wrote:
    Jaden Amber <jadena...@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:2a2472d9-b107-41e2...@googlegroups.com:

    I was active in this forum all those years ago. Actually contacted
    Joe outside of the forum. Went under a different name and was a
    mid-tier prolific presence defending the Mac from the early 90s,
    through Apple's near death rattle years, then slowly drifted away
    after Jobs arrived and the Cupertino ship righted itself and Apple
    ultimately became one of the most powerful companies in the world.

    Who needs advocacy at that point?

    But most folks don't remember the late 90s when Microsoft nearly
    walked away with it all. Long before the kinder, gentler Bill
    Gates arrived and Netscape was told Redmond would suck their air
    supply, or where Intuit was another acquisition target, but when
    that failed, MS dumped it's Microsoft Money for free in order to
    suck its air supply. Or the video testimony that had been doctored
    by Microsoft in trying to prove the Internet Explorer could not be
    removed from Windows. Had it not be for Linus Torvalds, Steve Jobs
    and Google's Page and Brin and all the other emerging wild
    Internet billionaires who chafed at being muscled by Microsoft, we
    would all be looking a different kind of screen right now. Maybe
    not horrible, but probably something a lot clunkier.

    My mantra back then was that competition was good. And it is good.
    All these years later I'm very satisfied with my Macs, iPhones and
    iPads and the stuff I create with them. Gun to my head, I can use
    Windows better than most folks my age, but why? Thankfully for
    Adobe and PDF and other relatively open protocols I don't have to
    worry about compatibility like we all did back in the 90s and
    early 2000s.

    Microsoft is no longer - well not really - the evil empire that
    they were back then. And I say that acknowledging that they made a
    lot of worthy products, and I've gotten to know some great people
    who work or have worked there.

    It's just that things were soooo out of balance back then. So
    precarious. And some of the Windows advocates were smart and
    civil, but others were just trolls to the nth degree. Maybe this
    was all just a tempest in a teapot and the words we exchanged
    didn't go beyond this forum. Maybe it was just a bit of therapy or
    sparring or whatever.

    Regardless, I liked Joe. I liked a number of the other folks here,
    and came back on the regular to hear from them. Today Apple needs
    advocacy like Elon Musk needs more money. Thankfully the bigger
    issue is about security, staying current with technology and
    wondering if Cupertino is ever going to fill up that big spaceship
    ring building with people after Covid. Probably...

    Been a long time. Felt the itch to check out the old UseNet (now
    Google Group) and do a search on "Ragosta." Sorry to hear he
    passed so young. Imagine he lived a good life and is in a better
    place. One that doesn't greet its arrivals with a C:\>

    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 10:21:34 AM UTC-8, John wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be
    a Mac

    advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was
    performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as
    I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young
    age of 55.

    There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting
    character who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed
    also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around
    - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a
    Windows

    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac.
    Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac
    has come since my first experiences with it at work in the
    nineties. Classic Mac

    OS sure was an embarrasment.


    Snit turned CSMA into a troll fest so many of the regulars left.
    AFAIK, Sandman is still alive and kicking.
    So is George Graves from my research.

    He seems to have dropped off 10-12 years ago, about the same time as Ragosta. He lived in the Bay area, but a quick obit search turned up nothing.
    From my research George is alive and well. He moved to Toronto and was writing for an audio journal.

    That's great news, thanks for passing it along. Sounds (pun intended) that he's a pig in mud!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas E.@21:1/5 to John on Mon Jan 24 11:07:52 2022
    On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 9:09:11 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
    On 12/22/2021 3:22 PM, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 10:11:12 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
    On 12/16/2021 10:34 AM, Phil Dago wrote:
    Jaden Amber <jadena...@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:2a2472d9-b107-41e2...@googlegroups.com:

    I was active in this forum all those years ago. Actually contacted
    Joe outside of the forum. Went under a different name and was a
    mid-tier prolific presence defending the Mac from the early 90s,
    through Apple's near death rattle years, then slowly drifted away
    after Jobs arrived and the Cupertino ship righted itself and Apple
    ultimately became one of the most powerful companies in the world.

    Who needs advocacy at that point?

    But most folks don't remember the late 90s when Microsoft nearly
    walked away with it all. Long before the kinder, gentler Bill
    Gates arrived and Netscape was told Redmond would suck their air
    supply, or where Intuit was another acquisition target, but when
    that failed, MS dumped it's Microsoft Money for free in order to
    suck its air supply. Or the video testimony that had been doctored
    by Microsoft in trying to prove the Internet Explorer could not be
    removed from Windows. Had it not be for Linus Torvalds, Steve Jobs
    and Google's Page and Brin and all the other emerging wild
    Internet billionaires who chafed at being muscled by Microsoft, we
    would all be looking a different kind of screen right now. Maybe
    not horrible, but probably something a lot clunkier.

    My mantra back then was that competition was good. And it is good.
    All these years later I'm very satisfied with my Macs, iPhones and
    iPads and the stuff I create with them. Gun to my head, I can use
    Windows better than most folks my age, but why? Thankfully for
    Adobe and PDF and other relatively open protocols I don't have to
    worry about compatibility like we all did back in the 90s and
    early 2000s.

    Microsoft is no longer - well not really - the evil empire that
    they were back then. And I say that acknowledging that they made a
    lot of worthy products, and I've gotten to know some great people
    who work or have worked there.

    It's just that things were soooo out of balance back then. So
    precarious. And some of the Windows advocates were smart and
    civil, but others were just trolls to the nth degree. Maybe this
    was all just a tempest in a teapot and the words we exchanged
    didn't go beyond this forum. Maybe it was just a bit of therapy or
    sparring or whatever.

    Regardless, I liked Joe. I liked a number of the other folks here,
    and came back on the regular to hear from them. Today Apple needs
    advocacy like Elon Musk needs more money. Thankfully the bigger
    issue is about security, staying current with technology and
    wondering if Cupertino is ever going to fill up that big spaceship
    ring building with people after Covid. Probably...

    Been a long time. Felt the itch to check out the old UseNet (now
    Google Group) and do a search on "Ragosta." Sorry to hear he
    passed so young. Imagine he lived a good life and is in a better
    place. One that doesn't greet its arrivals with a C:\>

    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 10:21:34 AM UTC-8, John wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be
    a Mac

    advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was
    performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as
    I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young
    age of 55.

    There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting
    character who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed
    also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around
    - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a
    Windows

    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac.
    Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac
    has come since my first experiences with it at work in the
    nineties. Classic Mac

    OS sure was an embarrasment.


    Snit turned CSMA into a troll fest so many of the regulars left.
    AFAIK, Sandman is still alive and kicking.
    So is George Graves from my research.

    He seems to have dropped off 10-12 years ago, about the same time as Ragosta. He lived in the Bay area, but a quick obit search turned up nothing.
    From my research George is alive and well. He moved to Toronto and was writing for an audio journal.

    In fact, you can see a very old picture of him at his former Toronto employer here https://www.lacquerchannel.com/

    Apparently retired now.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dustin@21:1/5 to -hh on Mon Jan 24 21:56:36 2022
    On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 11:35:02 AM UTC-7, -hh wrote:
    On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 12:17:09 PM UTC-5, Sandman wrote:
    -hh wrote:
    AFAIK, Sandman is still alive and kicking.

    Sandman:
    More or less :)

    Hopefully more of the more <g>

    Going to have to get ourselves back to Scandinavia after all
    of this CoVid disruption has passed ... IRRC, you're well north
    of Stockholm; is there any good places in your general area
    for seasonal viewing of the Northern Lights?

    I live in Vasteras, which is about an hour west of Stockholm.
    Ah, I was getting you mixed up with another friend, who was
    from Huljen ... that's the "way up north" location.
    There were actually northen lights in this area a week ago,
    I missed it though. You have to go much further north to be
    more sure to see it if the conditions are right.
    Understood, that's what I was thinking of. Time of year is also
    important too, because it needs to be dark, so summer's not
    a great time (too few hours of darkness); learned that from a
    trip to Iceland a few years ago.

    In fact, something I would suggest is going to Tromso in Norway.
    It's way up north but it's so beautiful and special!
    That's been a main location I've seen recommended before; a local
    photo club went there a few years ago...will have to see if they plan
    to run another trip again soon(ish). Would be nice to combine it
    with a trip to Svalbard, but seasons are wrong for doing both at
    the same time.


    -hh


    What do you get out of lying, Glasser Michael Snit?

    Anyone who groks Glasser Michael Snit's posts knows it is not generated
    in the manner Apd is saying, and most of them are flat out manually written. The one talent Glasser Michael Snit learned sufficiently is to try to
    humiliate Apd into back peddling and if that fails to work, troll so hard
    the thread is ignored or dishonesty change the goalpost.

    Socks that Glasser Michael Snit can not prove are mine. Why would Apd,
    or anyone, want socks to reveal what we all regularly say about Glasser
    Michael Snit?

    He disturbs multiple groups of people who have nothing to do with anything,
    but that's a conceited fool for you. What Apd and I care about isn't a
    factor.


    --
    This broke the Internet! https://www.bing.com/search?q=Dustin+Cook%3A+functional+illiterate+fraud <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.sys.mac.apps/c/VMCw29DnV84>
    Steve 'Narcissistic Bigot' Petruzzellis

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Steven Carroll - fretwizer@21:1/5 to Thomas E. on Tue Jan 25 01:21:54 2022
    On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 12:07:53 PM UTC-7, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 9:09:11 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
    On 12/22/2021 3:22 PM, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 10:11:12 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
    On 12/16/2021 10:34 AM, Phil Dago wrote:
    Jaden Amber <jadena...@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:2a2472d9-b107-41e2...@googlegroups.com:

    I was active in this forum all those years ago. Actually contacted >>>> Joe outside of the forum. Went under a different name and was a
    mid-tier prolific presence defending the Mac from the early 90s,
    through Apple's near death rattle years, then slowly drifted away
    after Jobs arrived and the Cupertino ship righted itself and Apple >>>> ultimately became one of the most powerful companies in the world. >>>>
    Who needs advocacy at that point?

    But most folks don't remember the late 90s when Microsoft nearly
    walked away with it all. Long before the kinder, gentler Bill
    Gates arrived and Netscape was told Redmond would suck their air
    supply, or where Intuit was another acquisition target, but when
    that failed, MS dumped it's Microsoft Money for free in order to
    suck its air supply. Or the video testimony that had been doctored >>>> by Microsoft in trying to prove the Internet Explorer could not be >>>> removed from Windows. Had it not be for Linus Torvalds, Steve Jobs >>>> and Google's Page and Brin and all the other emerging wild
    Internet billionaires who chafed at being muscled by Microsoft, we >>>> would all be looking a different kind of screen right now. Maybe
    not horrible, but probably something a lot clunkier.

    My mantra back then was that competition was good. And it is good. >>>> All these years later I'm very satisfied with my Macs, iPhones and >>>> iPads and the stuff I create with them. Gun to my head, I can use
    Windows better than most folks my age, but why? Thankfully for
    Adobe and PDF and other relatively open protocols I don't have to
    worry about compatibility like we all did back in the 90s and
    early 2000s.

    Microsoft is no longer - well not really - the evil empire that
    they were back then. And I say that acknowledging that they made a >>>> lot of worthy products, and I've gotten to know some great people
    who work or have worked there.

    It's just that things were soooo out of balance back then. So
    precarious. And some of the Windows advocates were smart and
    civil, but others were just trolls to the nth degree. Maybe this
    was all just a tempest in a teapot and the words we exchanged
    didn't go beyond this forum. Maybe it was just a bit of therapy or >>>> sparring or whatever.

    Regardless, I liked Joe. I liked a number of the other folks here, >>>> and came back on the regular to hear from them. Today Apple needs
    advocacy like Elon Musk needs more money. Thankfully the bigger
    issue is about security, staying current with technology and
    wondering if Cupertino is ever going to fill up that big spaceship >>>> ring building with people after Covid. Probably...

    Been a long time. Felt the itch to check out the old UseNet (now
    Google Group) and do a search on "Ragosta." Sorry to hear he
    passed so young. Imagine he lived a good life and is in a better
    place. One that doesn't greet its arrivals with a C:\>

    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 10:21:34 AM UTC-8, John wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be >>>>> a Mac

    advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was >>>>> performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as >>>>> I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young
    age of 55.

    There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting
    character who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed >>>>> also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around >>>>> - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a
    Windows

    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac.
    Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac
    has come since my first experiences with it at work in the
    nineties. Classic Mac

    OS sure was an embarrasment.


    Snit turned CSMA into a troll fest so many of the regulars left.
    AFAIK, Sandman is still alive and kicking.
    So is George Graves from my research.

    He seems to have dropped off 10-12 years ago, about the same time as Ragosta. He lived in the Bay area, but a quick obit search turned up nothing.
    From my research George is alive and well. He moved to Toronto and was writing for an audio journal.
    In fact, you can see a very old picture of him at his former Toronto employer here https://www.lacquerchannel.com/

    Apparently retired now.


    How is bash on Linux doing anything above the lowest common denominator?

    You're like a bowling pin in a needle-stack. We all see you there and tell
    you as much. And you're so ignorant you keep doing it. Off Jeff 'The Fool'
    Relf goes to the housing in the teeming garbage dump of my rubbish bin.
    I just don't get the point in Jeff 'The Fool' Relf continuing to tell that story, when they know it's is insane. I will no longer bring up the whackiest, so far, series of tales they've written about me to date; because three impartial posters did as I asked and told Jeff 'The Fool' Relf that they
    did, infact, misrepresent me in regards to that topic. Jeff 'The Fool' Relf
    is the result of the truth that Marxists have been employed to subvert indoctrinating
    children. It's not an accident that he is a witless liberal.


    --
    Puppy Videos!!
    https://www.udemy.com/user/michael-glasser/
    Steve 'Narcissistic Bigot' Carroll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Thomas E.@21:1/5 to John on Tue Jan 25 12:53:48 2022
    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 1:21:34 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was
    performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I
    recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting character
    who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows
    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. Ever
    since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac has come
    since my first experiences with it at work in the nineties. Classic Mac
    OS sure was an embarrasment.

    Your post led me to see how far I go back. For the Google repository it's August 1997, about 24.5 years ago. Other contributors have posts farther back. Joe Ragosta goes back several more years, but sadly nothing in many years now.

    Alan Baker likely holds the record for most lifetime CSMA posts. A name lookup yields 697,334 posts to CSMA alone. He is a very frequent poster in one other group too, REC.SPORT GOLF (which has little to do with golf) 660,473. A cursory look at some
    racing, skiing and Apple-centric sites turned up a few scattered Baker posts, but I may did not spend a lot of time on searching.

    Maybe Alan would like to step and do a little bragging???

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Steve Carroll@21:1/5 to Thomas E. on Tue Jan 25 12:31:58 2022
    On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 12:07:53 PM UTC-7, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 9:09:11 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
    On 12/22/2021 3:22 PM, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 10:11:12 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
    On 12/16/2021 10:34 AM, Phil Dago wrote:
    Jaden Amber <jadena...@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:2a2472d9-b107-41e2...@googlegroups.com:

    I was active in this forum all those years ago. Actually contacted >>>> Joe outside of the forum. Went under a different name and was a
    mid-tier prolific presence defending the Mac from the early 90s,
    through Apple's near death rattle years, then slowly drifted away
    after Jobs arrived and the Cupertino ship righted itself and Apple >>>> ultimately became one of the most powerful companies in the world. >>>>
    Who needs advocacy at that point?

    But most folks don't remember the late 90s when Microsoft nearly
    walked away with it all. Long before the kinder, gentler Bill
    Gates arrived and Netscape was told Redmond would suck their air
    supply, or where Intuit was another acquisition target, but when
    that failed, MS dumped it's Microsoft Money for free in order to
    suck its air supply. Or the video testimony that had been doctored >>>> by Microsoft in trying to prove the Internet Explorer could not be >>>> removed from Windows. Had it not be for Linus Torvalds, Steve Jobs >>>> and Google's Page and Brin and all the other emerging wild
    Internet billionaires who chafed at being muscled by Microsoft, we >>>> would all be looking a different kind of screen right now. Maybe
    not horrible, but probably something a lot clunkier.

    My mantra back then was that competition was good. And it is good. >>>> All these years later I'm very satisfied with my Macs, iPhones and >>>> iPads and the stuff I create with them. Gun to my head, I can use
    Windows better than most folks my age, but why? Thankfully for
    Adobe and PDF and other relatively open protocols I don't have to
    worry about compatibility like we all did back in the 90s and
    early 2000s.

    Microsoft is no longer - well not really - the evil empire that
    they were back then. And I say that acknowledging that they made a >>>> lot of worthy products, and I've gotten to know some great people
    who work or have worked there.

    It's just that things were soooo out of balance back then. So
    precarious. And some of the Windows advocates were smart and
    civil, but others were just trolls to the nth degree. Maybe this
    was all just a tempest in a teapot and the words we exchanged
    didn't go beyond this forum. Maybe it was just a bit of therapy or >>>> sparring or whatever.

    Regardless, I liked Joe. I liked a number of the other folks here, >>>> and came back on the regular to hear from them. Today Apple needs
    advocacy like Elon Musk needs more money. Thankfully the bigger
    issue is about security, staying current with technology and
    wondering if Cupertino is ever going to fill up that big spaceship >>>> ring building with people after Covid. Probably...

    Been a long time. Felt the itch to check out the old UseNet (now
    Google Group) and do a search on "Ragosta." Sorry to hear he
    passed so young. Imagine he lived a good life and is in a better
    place. One that doesn't greet its arrivals with a C:\>

    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 10:21:34 AM UTC-8, John wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be >>>>> a Mac

    advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was >>>>> performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as >>>>> I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young
    age of 55.

    There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting
    character who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed >>>>> also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around >>>>> - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a
    Windows

    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac.
    Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac
    has come since my first experiences with it at work in the
    nineties. Classic Mac

    OS sure was an embarrasment.


    Snit turned CSMA into a troll fest so many of the regulars left.
    AFAIK, Sandman is still alive and kicking.
    So is George Graves from my research.

    He seems to have dropped off 10-12 years ago, about the same time as Ragosta. He lived in the Bay area, but a quick obit search turned up nothing.
    From my research George is alive and well. He moved to Toronto and was writing for an audio journal.
    In fact, you can see a very old picture of him at his former Toronto employer here https://www.lacquerchannel.com/

    Apparently retired now.


    Kelly Phillips - who caused more headaches applying his 'quick fixes' than
    what the box started with before he touched it. There's a few choices to
    choose from in so far as up down. For others I'd say it is dubious. Of
    course, given that it's Kelly Phillips I would ignore that step and go
    straight to 'drug-induced delusion' because that's most of what Kelly Phillips does. No need to find evidence before accusing Kelly Phillips of lying.

    That is the problem now and younger teachers don't care, people from pre-
    tech generations (~40 yo) SHOULD know better than to fall for communism.

    Kelly Phillips is the only person I know who had a 'demo site' intended
    to attack me that quickly turned into dancing hamsters with blocks where pictures/animations used to be, and if you clicked it, you would be reading about a DMCA that was expunged for copyright infringement. You've proven
    only what a moron you are. Shadow clearly has a ton of experience to share
    and he seems to want to answer questions. Regrettably this is without a
    doubt the least appropriate group for doing that because a large part of
    what he will get back is insulting, misleading, and other bullshit.


    --
    This broke the Internet!! https://www.google.com/search?q=Steve+Petruzzellis%3A+narcissistic+bigot
    Steve 'Narcissistic Bigot' Carroll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Steve Carroll@21:1/5 to Steve Carroll on Tue Jan 25 16:12:15 2022
    On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 1:32:00 PM UTC-7, Steve Carroll wrote:
    On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 12:07:53 PM UTC-7, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 9:09:11 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
    On 12/22/2021 3:22 PM, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 10:11:12 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
    On 12/16/2021 10:34 AM, Phil Dago wrote:
    Jaden Amber <jadena...@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:2a2472d9-b107-41e2...@googlegroups.com:

    I was active in this forum all those years ago. Actually contacted >>>> Joe outside of the forum. Went under a different name and was a
    mid-tier prolific presence defending the Mac from the early 90s, >>>> through Apple's near death rattle years, then slowly drifted away >>>> after Jobs arrived and the Cupertino ship righted itself and Apple >>>> ultimately became one of the most powerful companies in the world. >>>>
    Who needs advocacy at that point?

    But most folks don't remember the late 90s when Microsoft nearly >>>> walked away with it all. Long before the kinder, gentler Bill
    Gates arrived and Netscape was told Redmond would suck their air >>>> supply, or where Intuit was another acquisition target, but when >>>> that failed, MS dumped it's Microsoft Money for free in order to >>>> suck its air supply. Or the video testimony that had been doctored >>>> by Microsoft in trying to prove the Internet Explorer could not be >>>> removed from Windows. Had it not be for Linus Torvalds, Steve Jobs >>>> and Google's Page and Brin and all the other emerging wild
    Internet billionaires who chafed at being muscled by Microsoft, we >>>> would all be looking a different kind of screen right now. Maybe >>>> not horrible, but probably something a lot clunkier.

    My mantra back then was that competition was good. And it is good. >>>> All these years later I'm very satisfied with my Macs, iPhones and >>>> iPads and the stuff I create with them. Gun to my head, I can use >>>> Windows better than most folks my age, but why? Thankfully for
    Adobe and PDF and other relatively open protocols I don't have to >>>> worry about compatibility like we all did back in the 90s and
    early 2000s.

    Microsoft is no longer - well not really - the evil empire that
    they were back then. And I say that acknowledging that they made a >>>> lot of worthy products, and I've gotten to know some great people >>>> who work or have worked there.

    It's just that things were soooo out of balance back then. So
    precarious. And some of the Windows advocates were smart and
    civil, but others were just trolls to the nth degree. Maybe this >>>> was all just a tempest in a teapot and the words we exchanged
    didn't go beyond this forum. Maybe it was just a bit of therapy or >>>> sparring or whatever.

    Regardless, I liked Joe. I liked a number of the other folks here, >>>> and came back on the regular to hear from them. Today Apple needs >>>> advocacy like Elon Musk needs more money. Thankfully the bigger
    issue is about security, staying current with technology and
    wondering if Cupertino is ever going to fill up that big spaceship >>>> ring building with people after Covid. Probably...

    Been a long time. Felt the itch to check out the old UseNet (now >>>> Google Group) and do a search on "Ragosta." Sorry to hear he
    passed so young. Imagine he lived a good life and is in a better >>>> place. One that doesn't greet its arrivals with a C:\>

    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 10:21:34 AM UTC-8, John wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be >>>>> a Mac

    advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was >>>>> performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as >>>>> I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young >>>>> age of 55.

    There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting
    character who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed >>>>> also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around >>>>> - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a >>>>> Windows

    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. >>>>> Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac >>>>> has come since my first experiences with it at work in the
    nineties. Classic Mac

    OS sure was an embarrasment.


    Snit turned CSMA into a troll fest so many of the regulars left.
    AFAIK, Sandman is still alive and kicking.
    So is George Graves from my research.

    He seems to have dropped off 10-12 years ago, about the same time as Ragosta. He lived in the Bay area, but a quick obit search turned up nothing.
    From my research George is alive and well. He moved to Toronto and was writing for an audio journal.
    In fact, you can see a very old picture of him at his former Toronto employer here https://www.lacquerchannel.com/

    Apparently retired now.
    Kelly Phillips - who caused more headaches applying his 'quick fixes' than what the box started with before he touched it. There's a few choices to choose from in so far as up down. For others I'd say it is dubious. Of course, given that it's Kelly Phillips I would ignore that step and go straight to 'drug-induced delusion' because that's most of what Kelly Phillips
    does. No need to find evidence before accusing Kelly Phillips of lying.

    That is the problem now and younger teachers don't care, people from pre- tech generations (~40 yo) SHOULD know better than to fall for communism.

    Kelly Phillips is the only person I know who had a 'demo site' intended
    to attack me that quickly turned into dancing hamsters with blocks where pictures/animations used to be, and if you clicked it, you would be reading about a DMCA that was expunged for copyright infringement. You've proven
    only what a moron you are. Shadow clearly has a ton of experience to share and he seems to want to answer questions. Regrettably this is without a
    doubt the least appropriate group for doing that because a large part of
    what he will get back is insulting, misleading, and other bullshit.


    --
    This broke the Internet!! https://www.google.com/search?q=Steve+Petruzzellis%3A+narcissistic+bigot Steve 'Narcissistic Bigot' Carroll


    Troll Killer Snit gave back what he gets from Jeff Relf some, big fucking
    deal. Why be a howling asshole about it?

    Proof Jeff Relf accuses everyone of being Snit http://sandman.net/files/snit_circus.png.
    I have not confirmed that the number: 1-423-491-1448 will be answered by
    Jeff Relf. Lines of text containing tells. Over and over, the surface request is he wants to "talk tech", but the guy spends most of his time whining
    about "trolling".


    -
    What Every Entrepreneur Must Know!! https://www.google.com/maps/place/108+Warrior+Dr,+Kingsport,+TN+37663/
    Dustin Cook is a functionally illiterate fraud

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Steven Carrolll 2817@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 25 21:14:29 2022
    On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 2:21:56 AM UTC-7, Steven Carrolll 2817 wrote:
    On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 12:07:53 PM UTC-7, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 9:09:11 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
    On 12/22/2021 3:22 PM, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 10:11:12 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
    On 12/16/2021 10:34 AM, Phil Dago wrote:
    Jaden Amber <jadena...@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:2a2472d9-b107-41e2...@googlegroups.com:

    I was active in this forum all those years ago. Actually contacted >>>> Joe outside of the forum. Went under a different name and was a
    mid-tier prolific presence defending the Mac from the early 90s, >>>> through Apple's near death rattle years, then slowly drifted away >>>> after Jobs arrived and the Cupertino ship righted itself and Apple >>>> ultimately became one of the most powerful companies in the world. >>>>
    Who needs advocacy at that point?

    But most folks don't remember the late 90s when Microsoft nearly >>>> walked away with it all. Long before the kinder, gentler Bill
    Gates arrived and Netscape was told Redmond would suck their air >>>> supply, or where Intuit was another acquisition target, but when >>>> that failed, MS dumped it's Microsoft Money for free in order to >>>> suck its air supply. Or the video testimony that had been doctored >>>> by Microsoft in trying to prove the Internet Explorer could not be >>>> removed from Windows. Had it not be for Linus Torvalds, Steve Jobs >>>> and Google's Page and Brin and all the other emerging wild
    Internet billionaires who chafed at being muscled by Microsoft, we >>>> would all be looking a different kind of screen right now. Maybe >>>> not horrible, but probably something a lot clunkier.

    My mantra back then was that competition was good. And it is good. >>>> All these years later I'm very satisfied with my Macs, iPhones and >>>> iPads and the stuff I create with them. Gun to my head, I can use >>>> Windows better than most folks my age, but why? Thankfully for
    Adobe and PDF and other relatively open protocols I don't have to >>>> worry about compatibility like we all did back in the 90s and
    early 2000s.

    Microsoft is no longer - well not really - the evil empire that
    they were back then. And I say that acknowledging that they made a >>>> lot of worthy products, and I've gotten to know some great people >>>> who work or have worked there.

    It's just that things were soooo out of balance back then. So
    precarious. And some of the Windows advocates were smart and
    civil, but others were just trolls to the nth degree. Maybe this >>>> was all just a tempest in a teapot and the words we exchanged
    didn't go beyond this forum. Maybe it was just a bit of therapy or >>>> sparring or whatever.

    Regardless, I liked Joe. I liked a number of the other folks here, >>>> and came back on the regular to hear from them. Today Apple needs >>>> advocacy like Elon Musk needs more money. Thankfully the bigger
    issue is about security, staying current with technology and
    wondering if Cupertino is ever going to fill up that big spaceship >>>> ring building with people after Covid. Probably...

    Been a long time. Felt the itch to check out the old UseNet (now >>>> Google Group) and do a search on "Ragosta." Sorry to hear he
    passed so young. Imagine he lived a good life and is in a better >>>> place. One that doesn't greet its arrivals with a C:\>

    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 10:21:34 AM UTC-8, John wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be >>>>> a Mac

    advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was >>>>> performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as >>>>> I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young >>>>> age of 55.

    There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting
    character who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed >>>>> also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around >>>>> - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a >>>>> Windows

    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. >>>>> Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac >>>>> has come since my first experiences with it at work in the
    nineties. Classic Mac

    OS sure was an embarrasment.


    Snit turned CSMA into a troll fest so many of the regulars left.
    AFAIK, Sandman is still alive and kicking.
    So is George Graves from my research.

    He seems to have dropped off 10-12 years ago, about the same time as Ragosta. He lived in the Bay area, but a quick obit search turned up nothing.
    From my research George is alive and well. He moved to Toronto and was writing for an audio journal.
    In fact, you can see a very old picture of him at his former Toronto employer here https://www.lacquerchannel.com/

    Apparently retired now.
    How is bash on Linux doing anything above the lowest common denominator?

    You're like a bowling pin in a needle-stack. We all see you there and tell you as much. And you're so ignorant you keep doing it. Off Jeff 'The Fool' Relf goes to the housing in the teeming garbage dump of my rubbish bin.
    I just don't get the point in Jeff 'The Fool' Relf continuing to tell that story, when they know it's is insane. I will no longer bring up the whackiest,
    so far, series of tales they've written about me to date; because three impartial posters did as I asked and told Jeff 'The Fool' Relf that they
    did, infact, misrepresent me in regards to that topic. Jeff 'The Fool' Relf is the result of the truth that Marxists have been employed to subvert indoctrinating
    children. It's not an accident that he is a witless liberal.


    --
    Puppy Videos!!
    https://www.udemy.com/user/michael-glasser/
    Steve 'Narcissistic Bigot' Carroll


    What were you betting on? It's his problem and he has to want to deal with
    it. Obviously he would rather blame Jeff Relf than face reality. Despite
    Theo's claim that he has "no interest in making trouble" (a lie as evidenced
    by the fact that he annoyed everyone in COLA) he was seen asking others
    how they would install a virus remotely. Pull up a background report on
    Theo and you will see that he was in gaol more than once. The investigation sites fail to go into that extent of detail and court reports in his area
    need to be court ordered.

    He upsets an entire group of people who have nothing to do with anything,
    but that's a self-centered troll for you. What Jeff Relf and I care about
    isn't a factor.


    --
    My Snoring Solution https://prescott-arizona.janbarham.org.au/yavapai-college-library-202.html/ Steve Petruzzellis the Narcissistic Bigot

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Steven Carrolll 2817@21:1/5 to Thomas E. on Tue Jan 25 23:20:58 2022
    On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 1:53:49 PM UTC-7, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 1:21:34 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I
    recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting character
    who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows
    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. Ever
    since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac has come
    since my first experiences with it at work in the nineties. Classic Mac
    OS sure was an embarrasment.
    Your post led me to see how far I go back. For the Google repository it's August 1997, about 24.5 years ago. Other contributors have posts farther back. Joe Ragosta goes back several more years, but sadly nothing in many years now.

    Alan Baker likely holds the record for most lifetime CSMA posts. A name lookup yields 697,334 posts to CSMA alone. He is a very frequent poster in one other group too, REC.SPORT GOLF (which has little to do with golf) 660,473. A cursory look at some
    racing, skiing and Apple-centric sites turned up a few scattered Baker posts, but I may did not spend a lot of time on searching.

    Maybe Alan would like to step and do a little bragging???


    +++<https://in.memory.of.e.tern.al/comp.sys.mac.apps/thread/3928539>+++

    Dustin Cook aka Diesel Brags In UNIX Group About Sucker Punching Others
    With Viruses

    Dustin Cook aka Diesel aka Raid aka Gremlin aka Casio aka Char Jackson

    He and his kind are no different than the ghetto garbage who sucker punch
    the unexpectant on the streets of America.

    He cobbled together shit BASIC crap code which is even laughed at by other virus writing/passing vermin.

    Every time his crap code slid under the radar of the AV companies, he claimed credit for being an outstanding genius coder. What really was responsible
    for some of his crap to ruin the computers of others was the sheer amount
    of viruses in the wild. No AV program could possibly cover them all. It was
    a mathematical certainty that some viruses would be unaccounted for in AV programs. But incompetent RL LUSERS like Dustin Cook grab any crumb of undeserved
    "achievement" that happens to come their way.

    Notice how to this day he brags about his viruses? Do you really think someone this HATEFUL and SPITEFUL of the success of others truly stopped writing/passing
    viruses because he "changed"?

    +++<http://www.hardwarebanter.com/showthread.php?p=1102356>+++

    Dustin Cook aka Gremlin aka Diesel-Dum Threatens Man With A Bullet ToThe
    Head

    This shows that beyond any doubt he is a psychopath.

    The only reason he has not killed yet is because he is a coward.

    DuckFart farts another DEADLY THREAT: "Where I'm from John, you'd already
    be dead. One bullet, right in the back of your head, execution style. No witnesses. Happens all the time in NY. You don't run your mouth here or anywhere
    else and not expect payback. I wasn't raised to take **** and not give it back. Don't start no ****, and there wont be no **** is my motto. KM started it, and now I do intend to finish it. I don't care what harm it causes him IRL. The more the merrier."

    He tries getting a man fired from his job by complaining to his employer because the guy had the balls to disagree with The MIGHY DUSTY, SUPER TURD
    OF USENET.

    When a friend tries defending the man Duck**** is trying to destroy, Duck**** THREATENS TO KILL HIM.

    https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...g/-WDTbGuUzisJ or https://tinyurl.com/qjvmuec

    +++<https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/pcWhWxc1/dustin-cook-gremlin- begs-ascii-for-his-real-name-needs-it-for-intelius-site>+++

    Dustin The Turd of Usenet Cook asked: "If you think I have no skills, post with your real name. :) "

    How f'kn much "SKILL" does it take to go to the Intelius or some other such site and use your credit card and let them do your so- called hacking for
    you?

    Incredible, isn't it? Just THINK of it. This Queen of Assholes, Dusti-Boi Cook, ACTUALLY ASKED a would-be victim for his name!

    QUIT GODDAMN LAUGHING! I'm SERIOUS!

    http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&A=0&MSGI=%3CXns9F978596DE5FDHHI2948AJD832%40no%3E


    --
    One Smart Penny https://www.bing.com/search?q=steve%20carroll%20narcissistic%20bigot https://swisscows.com/web?query=%22narcissistic%20bigot%22
    Steve Petruzzellis the Narcissistic Bigot

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From HHI the imaginary friend@21:1/5 to HHI the imaginary friend on Wed Jan 26 04:23:11 2022
    On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 12:20:59 AM UTC-7, HHI the imaginary friend wrote:
    On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 1:53:49 PM UTC-7, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 1:21:34 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting character
    who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac has come
    since my first experiences with it at work in the nineties. Classic Mac OS sure was an embarrasment.
    Your post led me to see how far I go back. For the Google repository it's August 1997, about 24.5 years ago. Other contributors have posts farther back. Joe Ragosta goes back several more years, but sadly nothing in many years now.

    Alan Baker likely holds the record for most lifetime CSMA posts. A name lookup yields 697,334 posts to CSMA alone. He is a very frequent poster in one other group too, REC.SPORT GOLF (which has little to do with golf) 660,473. A cursory look at some
    racing, skiing and Apple-centric sites turned up a few scattered Baker posts, but I may did not spend a lot of time on searching.

    Maybe Alan would like to step and do a little bragging???
    +++<https://in.memory.of.e.tern.al/comp.sys.mac.apps/thread/3928539>+++

    Dustin Cook aka Diesel Brags In UNIX Group About Sucker Punching Others
    With Viruses

    Dustin Cook aka Diesel aka Raid aka Gremlin aka Casio aka Char Jackson

    He and his kind are no different than the ghetto garbage who sucker punch the unexpectant on the streets of America.

    He cobbled together shit BASIC crap code which is even laughed at by other virus writing/passing vermin.

    Every time his crap code slid under the radar of the AV companies, he claimed
    credit for being an outstanding genius coder. What really was responsible for some of his crap to ruin the computers of others was the sheer amount
    of viruses in the wild. No AV program could possibly cover them all. It was a mathematical certainty that some viruses would be unaccounted for in AV programs. But incompetent RL LUSERS like Dustin Cook grab any crumb of undeserved
    "achievement" that happens to come their way.

    Notice how to this day he brags about his viruses? Do you really think someone
    this HATEFUL and SPITEFUL of the success of others truly stopped writing/passing
    viruses because he "changed"?

    +++<http://www.hardwarebanter.com/showthread.php?p=1102356>+++

    Dustin Cook aka Gremlin aka Diesel-Dum Threatens Man With A Bullet ToThe Head

    This shows that beyond any doubt he is a psychopath.

    The only reason he has not killed yet is because he is a coward.

    DuckFart farts another DEADLY THREAT: "Where I'm from John, you'd already
    be dead. One bullet, right in the back of your head, execution style. No witnesses. Happens all the time in NY. You don't run your mouth here or anywhere
    else and not expect payback. I wasn't raised to take **** and not give it back. Don't start no ****, and there wont be no **** is my motto. KM started it, and now I do intend to finish it. I don't care what harm it causes him IRL. The more the merrier."

    He tries getting a man fired from his job by complaining to his employer because the guy had the balls to disagree with The MIGHY DUSTY, SUPER TURD OF USENET.

    When a friend tries defending the man Duck**** is trying to destroy, Duck****
    THREATENS TO KILL HIM.

    https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...g/-WDTbGuUzisJ or https://tinyurl.com/qjvmuec

    +++<https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/pcWhWxc1/dustin-cook-gremlin- begs-ascii-for-his-real-name-needs-it-for-intelius-site>+++

    Dustin The Turd of Usenet Cook asked: "If you think I have no skills, post with your real name. :) "

    How f'kn much "SKILL" does it take to go to the Intelius or some other such site and use your credit card and let them do your so- called hacking for you?

    Incredible, isn't it? Just THINK of it. This Queen of Assholes, Dusti-Boi Cook, ACTUALLY ASKED a would-be victim for his name!

    QUIT GODDAMN LAUGHING! I'm SERIOUS!

    http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&A=0&MSGI=%3CXns9F978596DE5FDHHI2948AJD832%40no%3E


    --
    One Smart Penny https://www.bing.com/search?q=steve%20carroll%20narcissistic%20bigot https://swisscows.com/web?query=%22narcissistic%20bigot%22
    Steve Petruzzellis the Narcissistic Bigot


    David's posts are totally perfectly deceitful. There can be no doubt that
    as soon as any past 'plonkee' does whatever to wound the poor namby-pamby's feelings that they'll be ignored again.

    Tizen, runs on the circuitry kernel. So yeah, circuitry is mobile. circuitry is a super computer. circuitry is a server. circuitry is a desktop. circuitry is growing in market share. Already moved on from that. Keep up!

    "Missed it by that much" said David's wife.


    --
    Top 15 Ways David Trolls! https://www.google.com/search?q=Dustin+Cook%3A+functional+illiterate+fraud https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Dustin+Cook%3A+functional+illiterate+fraud
    Steve 'Narcissistic Bigot' Petruzzellis

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Stephen Carroll - fretwizer 6305@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 26 07:01:57 2022
    On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 5:12:18 PM UTC-7, Stephen Carroll - fretwizer 6305 wrote:
    On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 1:32:00 PM UTC-7, Steve Carroll wrote:
    On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 12:07:53 PM UTC-7, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 9:09:11 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
    On 12/22/2021 3:22 PM, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 10:11:12 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
    On 12/16/2021 10:34 AM, Phil Dago wrote:
    Jaden Amber <jadena...@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:2a2472d9-b107-41e2...@googlegroups.com:

    I was active in this forum all those years ago. Actually contacted >>>> Joe outside of the forum. Went under a different name and was a >>>> mid-tier prolific presence defending the Mac from the early 90s, >>>> through Apple's near death rattle years, then slowly drifted away >>>> after Jobs arrived and the Cupertino ship righted itself and Apple >>>> ultimately became one of the most powerful companies in the world. >>>>
    Who needs advocacy at that point?

    But most folks don't remember the late 90s when Microsoft nearly >>>> walked away with it all. Long before the kinder, gentler Bill
    Gates arrived and Netscape was told Redmond would suck their air >>>> supply, or where Intuit was another acquisition target, but when >>>> that failed, MS dumped it's Microsoft Money for free in order to >>>> suck its air supply. Or the video testimony that had been doctored >>>> by Microsoft in trying to prove the Internet Explorer could not be >>>> removed from Windows. Had it not be for Linus Torvalds, Steve Jobs >>>> and Google's Page and Brin and all the other emerging wild
    Internet billionaires who chafed at being muscled by Microsoft, we >>>> would all be looking a different kind of screen right now. Maybe >>>> not horrible, but probably something a lot clunkier.

    My mantra back then was that competition was good. And it is good. >>>> All these years later I'm very satisfied with my Macs, iPhones and >>>> iPads and the stuff I create with them. Gun to my head, I can use >>>> Windows better than most folks my age, but why? Thankfully for >>>> Adobe and PDF and other relatively open protocols I don't have to >>>> worry about compatibility like we all did back in the 90s and
    early 2000s.

    Microsoft is no longer - well not really - the evil empire that >>>> they were back then. And I say that acknowledging that they made a >>>> lot of worthy products, and I've gotten to know some great people >>>> who work or have worked there.

    It's just that things were soooo out of balance back then. So
    precarious. And some of the Windows advocates were smart and
    civil, but others were just trolls to the nth degree. Maybe this >>>> was all just a tempest in a teapot and the words we exchanged
    didn't go beyond this forum. Maybe it was just a bit of therapy or >>>> sparring or whatever.

    Regardless, I liked Joe. I liked a number of the other folks here, >>>> and came back on the regular to hear from them. Today Apple needs >>>> advocacy like Elon Musk needs more money. Thankfully the bigger >>>> issue is about security, staying current with technology and
    wondering if Cupertino is ever going to fill up that big spaceship >>>> ring building with people after Covid. Probably...

    Been a long time. Felt the itch to check out the old UseNet (now >>>> Google Group) and do a search on "Ragosta." Sorry to hear he
    passed so young. Imagine he lived a good life and is in a better >>>> place. One that doesn't greet its arrivals with a C:\>

    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 10:21:34 AM UTC-8, John wrote: >>>>> Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be >>>>> a Mac

    advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was >>>>> performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as >>>>> I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young >>>>> age of 55.

    There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting
    character who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed >>>>> also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around >>>>> - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a >>>>> Windows

    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. >>>>> Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac >>>>> has come since my first experiences with it at work in the
    nineties. Classic Mac

    OS sure was an embarrasment.


    Snit turned CSMA into a troll fest so many of the regulars left. >>> AFAIK, Sandman is still alive and kicking.
    So is George Graves from my research.

    He seems to have dropped off 10-12 years ago, about the same time as Ragosta. He lived in the Bay area, but a quick obit search turned up nothing.
    From my research George is alive and well. He moved to Toronto and was writing for an audio journal.
    In fact, you can see a very old picture of him at his former Toronto employer here https://www.lacquerchannel.com/

    Apparently retired now.
    Kelly Phillips - who caused more headaches applying his 'quick fixes' than what the box started with before he touched it. There's a few choices to choose from in so far as up down. For others I'd say it is dubious. Of course, given that it's Kelly Phillips I would ignore that step and go straight to 'drug-induced delusion' because that's most of what Kelly Phillips
    does. No need to find evidence before accusing Kelly Phillips of lying.

    That is the problem now and younger teachers don't care, people from pre- tech generations (~40 yo) SHOULD know better than to fall for communism.

    Kelly Phillips is the only person I know who had a 'demo site' intended
    to attack me that quickly turned into dancing hamsters with blocks where pictures/animations used to be, and if you clicked it, you would be reading about a DMCA that was expunged for copyright infringement. You've proven only what a moron you are. Shadow clearly has a ton of experience to share and he seems to want to answer questions. Regrettably this is without a doubt the least appropriate group for doing that because a large part of what he will get back is insulting, misleading, and other bullshit.


    --
    This broke the Internet!! https://www.google.com/search?q=Steve+Petruzzellis%3A+narcissistic+bigot Steve 'Narcissistic Bigot' Carroll
    Troll Killer Snit gave back what he gets from Jeff Relf some, big fucking deal. Why be a howling asshole about it?

    Proof Jeff Relf accuses everyone of being Snit http://sandman.net/files/snit_circus.png.
    I have not confirmed that the number: 1-423-491-1448 will be answered by
    Jeff Relf. Lines of text containing tells. Over and over, the surface request is he wants to "talk tech", but the guy spends most of his time whining
    about "trolling".


    -
    What Every Entrepreneur Must Know!! https://www.google.com/maps/place/108+Warrior+Dr,+Kingsport,+TN+37663/
    Dustin Cook is a functionally illiterate fraud


    Chris will be overwhelmed once the waters are overfished. That, and there
    will forever be a tantrum thrower or two in an open news group. The current tantrum aside, we've all seen who usually lashes out when he does not
    get his way. Snit sock Toasty's actions are actually entirely disingenuous. There is zero dispute that as soon as any released 'filtered person'
    does whatever to frighten the feeble milksop's feelings that they will
    be replonked.

    Who *doesn't* know that this kind of crap is Snit sock Toasty's approach,
    not the modus operandi of Chris? It is all just nonsense... the trolling,
    the sock puppets, the writing of nonsense, the outbursts... the puffy
    red eyes and willingness to show how butthurt he is over being banned
    from the playground for crapping in it again... Snit sock Toasty can
    not help himself ;)

    Yup. Sadly this is what we have to stop. People who have no reason for
    being here other than to troll.

    Right, Snit sock Toasty is looking to produce a WordPress variable,
    which anyone can get from torrent sites, that I taught myself. If he
    wasn't so stupid he would understand how clueless he looks ;) Snit sock
    Toasty is a insane maniac who regularly claims anyone who disagrees with
    Chris to be a sock and, still, he wants us to believe that is true. Gotta
    be drugs.

    --
    What Every Entrepreneur Must Know <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.sys.mac.apps/c/VMCw29DnV84>
    Dustin Cook the functionally illiterate fraud

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From STALKING_TARGET_98@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 26 10:46:11 2022
    On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 8:01:59 AM UTC-7, STALKING_TARGET_98 wrote:
    On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 5:12:18 PM UTC-7, Stephen Carroll - fretwizer 6305 wrote:
    On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 1:32:00 PM UTC-7, Steve Carroll wrote:
    On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 12:07:53 PM UTC-7, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Wednesday, December 22, 2021 at 9:09:11 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
    On 12/22/2021 3:22 PM, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 10:11:12 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
    On 12/16/2021 10:34 AM, Phil Dago wrote:
    Jaden Amber <jadena...@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:2a2472d9-b107-41e2...@googlegroups.com:

    I was active in this forum all those years ago. Actually contacted
    Joe outside of the forum. Went under a different name and was a >>>> mid-tier prolific presence defending the Mac from the early 90s, >>>> through Apple's near death rattle years, then slowly drifted away
    after Jobs arrived and the Cupertino ship righted itself and Apple
    ultimately became one of the most powerful companies in the world.

    Who needs advocacy at that point?

    But most folks don't remember the late 90s when Microsoft nearly >>>> walked away with it all. Long before the kinder, gentler Bill >>>> Gates arrived and Netscape was told Redmond would suck their air >>>> supply, or where Intuit was another acquisition target, but when >>>> that failed, MS dumped it's Microsoft Money for free in order to >>>> suck its air supply. Or the video testimony that had been doctored
    by Microsoft in trying to prove the Internet Explorer could not be
    removed from Windows. Had it not be for Linus Torvalds, Steve Jobs
    and Google's Page and Brin and all the other emerging wild
    Internet billionaires who chafed at being muscled by Microsoft, we
    would all be looking a different kind of screen right now. Maybe >>>> not horrible, but probably something a lot clunkier.

    My mantra back then was that competition was good. And it is good.
    All these years later I'm very satisfied with my Macs, iPhones and
    iPads and the stuff I create with them. Gun to my head, I can use
    Windows better than most folks my age, but why? Thankfully for >>>> Adobe and PDF and other relatively open protocols I don't have to
    worry about compatibility like we all did back in the 90s and >>>> early 2000s.

    Microsoft is no longer - well not really - the evil empire that >>>> they were back then. And I say that acknowledging that they made a
    lot of worthy products, and I've gotten to know some great people
    who work or have worked there.

    It's just that things were soooo out of balance back then. So >>>> precarious. And some of the Windows advocates were smart and >>>> civil, but others were just trolls to the nth degree. Maybe this >>>> was all just a tempest in a teapot and the words we exchanged >>>> didn't go beyond this forum. Maybe it was just a bit of therapy or
    sparring or whatever.

    Regardless, I liked Joe. I liked a number of the other folks here,
    and came back on the regular to hear from them. Today Apple needs
    advocacy like Elon Musk needs more money. Thankfully the bigger >>>> issue is about security, staying current with technology and >>>> wondering if Cupertino is ever going to fill up that big spaceship
    ring building with people after Covid. Probably...

    Been a long time. Felt the itch to check out the old UseNet (now >>>> Google Group) and do a search on "Ragosta." Sorry to hear he >>>> passed so young. Imagine he lived a good life and is in a better >>>> place. One that doesn't greet its arrivals with a C:\>

    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 10:21:34 AM UTC-8, John wrote: >>>>> Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be
    a Mac

    advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was
    performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as
    I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young >>>>> age of 55.

    There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting >>>>> character who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed
    also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around
    - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others. >>>>>
    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a >>>>> Windows

    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. >>>>> Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac >>>>> has come since my first experiences with it at work in the >>>>> nineties. Classic Mac

    OS sure was an embarrasment.


    Snit turned CSMA into a troll fest so many of the regulars left. >>> AFAIK, Sandman is still alive and kicking.
    So is George Graves from my research.

    He seems to have dropped off 10-12 years ago, about the same time as Ragosta. He lived in the Bay area, but a quick obit search turned up nothing.
    From my research George is alive and well. He moved to Toronto and was
    writing for an audio journal.
    In fact, you can see a very old picture of him at his former Toronto employer here https://www.lacquerchannel.com/

    Apparently retired now.
    Kelly Phillips - who caused more headaches applying his 'quick fixes' than
    what the box started with before he touched it. There's a few choices to choose from in so far as up down. For others I'd say it is dubious. Of course, given that it's Kelly Phillips I would ignore that step and go straight to 'drug-induced delusion' because that's most of what Kelly Phillips
    does. No need to find evidence before accusing Kelly Phillips of lying.

    That is the problem now and younger teachers don't care, people from pre- tech generations (~40 yo) SHOULD know better than to fall for communism.

    Kelly Phillips is the only person I know who had a 'demo site' intended to attack me that quickly turned into dancing hamsters with blocks where pictures/animations used to be, and if you clicked it, you would be reading
    about a DMCA that was expunged for copyright infringement. You've proven only what a moron you are. Shadow clearly has a ton of experience to share
    and he seems to want to answer questions. Regrettably this is without a doubt the least appropriate group for doing that because a large part of what he will get back is insulting, misleading, and other bullshit.


    --
    This broke the Internet!! https://www.google.com/search?q=Steve+Petruzzellis%3A+narcissistic+bigot Steve 'Narcissistic Bigot' Carroll
    Troll Killer Snit gave back what he gets from Jeff Relf some, big fucking deal. Why be a howling asshole about it?

    Proof Jeff Relf accuses everyone of being Snit http://sandman.net/files/snit_circus.png.
    I have not confirmed that the number: 1-423-491-1448 will be answered by Jeff Relf. Lines of text containing tells. Over and over, the surface request
    is he wants to "talk tech", but the guy spends most of his time whining about "trolling".


    -
    What Every Entrepreneur Must Know!! https://www.google.com/maps/place/108+Warrior+Dr,+Kingsport,+TN+37663/ Dustin Cook is a functionally illiterate fraud
    Chris will be overwhelmed once the waters are overfished. That, and there will forever be a tantrum thrower or two in an open news group. The current tantrum aside, we've all seen who usually lashes out when he does not
    get his way. Snit sock Toasty's actions are actually entirely disingenuous. There is zero dispute that as soon as any released 'filtered person'
    does whatever to frighten the feeble milksop's feelings that they will
    be replonked.

    Who *doesn't* know that this kind of crap is Snit sock Toasty's approach,
    not the modus operandi of Chris? It is all just nonsense... the trolling,
    the sock puppets, the writing of nonsense, the outbursts... the puffy
    red eyes and willingness to show how butthurt he is over being banned
    from the playground for crapping in it again... Snit sock Toasty can
    not help himself ;)

    Yup. Sadly this is what we have to stop. People who have no reason for
    being here other than to troll.

    Right, Snit sock Toasty is looking to produce a WordPress variable,
    which anyone can get from torrent sites, that I taught myself. If he
    wasn't so stupid he would understand how clueless he looks ;) Snit sock Toasty is a insane maniac who regularly claims anyone who disagrees with Chris to be a sock and, still, he wants us to believe that is true. Gotta
    be drugs.

    --
    What Every Entrepreneur Must Know <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.sys.mac.apps/c/VMCw29DnV84>
    Dustin Cook the functionally illiterate fraud


    I know we have two different views entirely.

    Pay for a background check on Jeremy and you will discover that he was
    in jail last year. The online reports can not go into that level of specificity and public reports need to be court ordered. The clam engine had a false negative hit, and the gui Klamav reported what the kernel which isn't created by the same people or company reported it. It's not surprising that Jeremy faked indifference at the condition of being seen as credible -- knowing
    that it's unlikely to ever happen.

    --
    Puppy Videos! https://www.bing.com/search?q=%22FUNCTIONAL%20ILLITERATE%20FRAUD%22
    Dustin Cook: Functionally Illiterate Fraud

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael Glasser@21:1/5 to Michael Glasser on Wed Jan 26 23:49:10 2022
    On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 12:20:59 AM UTC-7, Michael Glasser wrote:
    On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 1:53:49 PM UTC-7, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 1:21:34 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be a Mac advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young age of 55. There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting character
    who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac has come
    since my first experiences with it at work in the nineties. Classic Mac OS sure was an embarrasment.
    Your post led me to see how far I go back. For the Google repository it's August 1997, about 24.5 years ago. Other contributors have posts farther back. Joe Ragosta goes back several more years, but sadly nothing in many years now.

    Alan Baker likely holds the record for most lifetime CSMA posts. A name lookup yields 697,334 posts to CSMA alone. He is a very frequent poster in one other group too, REC.SPORT GOLF (which has little to do with golf) 660,473. A cursory look at some
    racing, skiing and Apple-centric sites turned up a few scattered Baker posts, but I may did not spend a lot of time on searching.

    Maybe Alan would like to step and do a little bragging???
    +++<https://in.memory.of.e.tern.al/comp.sys.mac.apps/thread/3928539>+++

    Dustin Cook aka Diesel Brags In UNIX Group About Sucker Punching Others
    With Viruses

    Dustin Cook aka Diesel aka Raid aka Gremlin aka Casio aka Char Jackson

    He and his kind are no different than the ghetto garbage who sucker punch the unexpectant on the streets of America.

    He cobbled together shit BASIC crap code which is even laughed at by other virus writing/passing vermin.

    Every time his crap code slid under the radar of the AV companies, he claimed
    credit for being an outstanding genius coder. What really was responsible for some of his crap to ruin the computers of others was the sheer amount
    of viruses in the wild. No AV program could possibly cover them all. It was a mathematical certainty that some viruses would be unaccounted for in AV programs. But incompetent RL LUSERS like Dustin Cook grab any crumb of undeserved
    "achievement" that happens to come their way.

    Notice how to this day he brags about his viruses? Do you really think someone
    this HATEFUL and SPITEFUL of the success of others truly stopped writing/passing
    viruses because he "changed"?

    +++<http://www.hardwarebanter.com/showthread.php?p=1102356>+++

    Dustin Cook aka Gremlin aka Diesel-Dum Threatens Man With A Bullet ToThe Head

    This shows that beyond any doubt he is a psychopath.

    The only reason he has not killed yet is because he is a coward.

    DuckFart farts another DEADLY THREAT: "Where I'm from John, you'd already
    be dead. One bullet, right in the back of your head, execution style. No witnesses. Happens all the time in NY. You don't run your mouth here or anywhere
    else and not expect payback. I wasn't raised to take **** and not give it back. Don't start no ****, and there wont be no **** is my motto. KM started it, and now I do intend to finish it. I don't care what harm it causes him IRL. The more the merrier."

    He tries getting a man fired from his job by complaining to his employer because the guy had the balls to disagree with The MIGHY DUSTY, SUPER TURD OF USENET.

    When a friend tries defending the man Duck**** is trying to destroy, Duck****
    THREATENS TO KILL HIM.

    https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...g/-WDTbGuUzisJ or https://tinyurl.com/qjvmuec

    +++<https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/pcWhWxc1/dustin-cook-gremlin- begs-ascii-for-his-real-name-needs-it-for-intelius-site>+++

    Dustin The Turd of Usenet Cook asked: "If you think I have no skills, post with your real name. :) "

    How f'kn much "SKILL" does it take to go to the Intelius or some other such site and use your credit card and let them do your so- called hacking for you?

    Incredible, isn't it? Just THINK of it. This Queen of Assholes, Dusti-Boi Cook, ACTUALLY ASKED a would-be victim for his name!

    QUIT GODDAMN LAUGHING! I'm SERIOUS!

    http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&A=0&MSGI=%3CXns9F978596DE5FDHHI2948AJD832%40no%3E


    --
    One Smart Penny https://www.bing.com/search?q=steve%20carroll%20narcissistic%20bigot https://swisscows.com/web?query=%22narcissistic%20bigot%22
    Steve Petruzzellis the Narcissistic Bigot


    Glasser Michael Snit claims:

    * You have two degrees, both in CS and you did not know IT was different.
    * You have two degrees, both in IT.
    * You have two degrees, one in IT and one in CS.
    * You blame me for you confusing IT with IS though you offer no evidence.
    * Your project your confusion and dishonesty onto me.

    All trivial to show:

    Glasser Michael Snit <XnsAB593FA1DFBDHT1@MjEwUG.BDMbgpk>:
    -----
    Well, I have two Masters myself, but they are in CS I
    wasn't aware CS and I.T were/are seperate entities now.
    -----

    Glasser Michael Snit <XnsAC703AA7A6220HT1@tkRp4lHo04W6T4lOY83W.tuvxq31.7>:
    -----
    Unlike yourself snit, I hold two honorary masters in IT
    -----

    Glasser Michael Snit <XnsAC703AA7A6220HT1@tkRp4lHo04W6T4lOY83W.tuvxq31.7>:
    -----
    We discussed at length previously his masters in IS, and
    mine in IT and the differences between them. He was quite
    adamant that he had a masters in IS, *not* IT as is mine.
    -----

    Glasser Michael Snit <XnsAC75C8B08FCD2HT1@dcFn0WjC2iFiA86fj2h.35Y>:
    -----
    One is in CS, the other is in IT.
    -----

    Glasser Michael Snit <XnsAC703AA7A6220HT1@tkRp4lHo04W6T4lOY83W.tuvxq31.7>:
    -----
    I'd also like to know how Snit could be so confused
    concerning which degree he has.
    -----

    Other than you being a functionally illiterate fraud, how do you explain
    any of that?

    --
    Puppy Videos!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhOfBmWwCVY
    Steve Carroll the Narcissistic Bigot

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Stephen Carroll - fretwizen@21:1/5 to Stephen Carroll - fretwizen on Thu Jan 27 04:36:31 2022
    On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 12:49:12 AM UTC-7, Stephen Carroll - fretwizen wrote:
    On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 12:20:59 AM UTC-7, Michael Glasser wrote:
    On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 1:53:49 PM UTC-7, Thomas E. wrote:
    On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 1:21:34 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
    Twenty years ago I first dropped into CSMA. It was supposed to be a Mac
    advocacy group but at that time hardly any effective advocacy was performed. I remember Joe Ragosta who went by the name Macman as I recall. Unfortunately he passed a few years ago at the young age of 55.
    There was a guy named George Graves who was an interesting character who was into high end audio. Think he must have passed also. There was Sandman(hope he is still OK. Alan is still around - not doing any real advocacy. Cannot remember the others.

    Back then in 2001 the Mac was a total piece of junk and I was a Windows
    XP backer. By 2004 and an improving OS X I bought my first Mac. Ever since I have been a Mac advocate. Thing about how far Mac has come since my first experiences with it at work in the nineties. Classic Mac
    OS sure was an embarrasment.
    Your post led me to see how far I go back. For the Google repository it's August 1997, about 24.5 years ago. Other contributors have posts farther back. Joe Ragosta goes back several more years, but sadly nothing in many years now.

    Alan Baker likely holds the record for most lifetime CSMA posts. A name lookup yields 697,334 posts to CSMA alone. He is a very frequent poster in one other group too, REC.SPORT GOLF (which has little to do with golf) 660,473. A cursory look at
    some racing, skiing and Apple-centric sites turned up a few scattered Baker posts, but I may did not spend a lot of time on searching.

    Maybe Alan would like to step and do a little bragging???
    +++<https://in.memory.of.e.tern.al/comp.sys.mac.apps/thread/3928539>+++

    Dustin Cook aka Diesel Brags In UNIX Group About Sucker Punching Others With Viruses

    Dustin Cook aka Diesel aka Raid aka Gremlin aka Casio aka Char Jackson

    He and his kind are no different than the ghetto garbage who sucker punch the unexpectant on the streets of America.

    He cobbled together shit BASIC crap code which is even laughed at by other virus writing/passing vermin.

    Every time his crap code slid under the radar of the AV companies, he claimed
    credit for being an outstanding genius coder. What really was responsible for some of his crap to ruin the computers of others was the sheer amount of viruses in the wild. No AV program could possibly cover them all. It was
    a mathematical certainty that some viruses would be unaccounted for in AV programs. But incompetent RL LUSERS like Dustin Cook grab any crumb of undeserved
    "achievement" that happens to come their way.

    Notice how to this day he brags about his viruses? Do you really think someone
    this HATEFUL and SPITEFUL of the success of others truly stopped writing/passing
    viruses because he "changed"?

    +++<http://www.hardwarebanter.com/showthread.php?p=1102356>+++

    Dustin Cook aka Gremlin aka Diesel-Dum Threatens Man With A Bullet ToThe Head

    This shows that beyond any doubt he is a psychopath.

    The only reason he has not killed yet is because he is a coward.

    DuckFart farts another DEADLY THREAT: "Where I'm from John, you'd already be dead. One bullet, right in the back of your head, execution style. No witnesses. Happens all the time in NY. You don't run your mouth here or anywhere
    else and not expect payback. I wasn't raised to take **** and not give it back. Don't start no ****, and there wont be no **** is my motto. KM started
    it, and now I do intend to finish it. I don't care what harm it causes him IRL. The more the merrier."

    He tries getting a man fired from his job by complaining to his employer because the guy had the balls to disagree with The MIGHY DUSTY, SUPER TURD OF USENET.

    When a friend tries defending the man Duck**** is trying to destroy, Duck****
    THREATENS TO KILL HIM.

    https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...g/-WDTbGuUzisJ or https://tinyurl.com/qjvmuec

    +++<https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/pcWhWxc1/dustin-cook-gremlin-
    begs-ascii-for-his-real-name-needs-it-for-intelius-site>+++

    Dustin The Turd of Usenet Cook asked: "If you think I have no skills, post with your real name. :) "

    How f'kn much "SKILL" does it take to go to the Intelius or some other such
    site and use your credit card and let them do your so- called hacking for you?

    Incredible, isn't it? Just THINK of it. This Queen of Assholes, Dusti-Boi Cook, ACTUALLY ASKED a would-be victim for his name!

    QUIT GODDAMN LAUGHING! I'm SERIOUS!

    http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&A=0&MSGI=%3CXns9F978596DE5FDHHI2948AJD832%40no%3E


    --
    One Smart Penny https://www.bing.com/search?q=steve%20carroll%20narcissistic%20bigot https://swisscows.com/web?query=%22narcissistic%20bigot%22
    Steve Petruzzellis the Narcissistic Bigot
    Glasser Michael Snit claims:

    * You have two degrees, both in CS and you did not know IT was different.
    * You have two degrees, both in IT.
    * You have two degrees, one in IT and one in CS.
    * You blame me for you confusing IT with IS though you offer no evidence.
    * Your project your confusion and dishonesty onto me.

    All trivial to show:

    Glasser Michael Snit <XnsAB593F...@MjEwUG.BDMbgpk>:
    -----
    Well, I have two Masters myself, but they are in CS I
    wasn't aware CS and I.T were/are seperate entities now.
    -----

    Glasser Michael Snit <XnsAC703A...@tkRp4lHo04W6T4lOY83W.tuvxq31.7>:
    -----
    Unlike yourself snit, I hold two honorary masters in IT
    -----

    Glasser Michael Snit <XnsAC703A...@tkRp4lHo04W6T4lOY83W.tuvxq31.7>:
    -----
    We discussed at length previously his masters in IS, and
    mine in IT and the differences between them. He was quite
    adamant that he had a masters in IS, *not* IT as is mine.
    -----

    Glasser Michael Snit <XnsAC75C8...@dcFn0WjC2iFiA86fj2h.35Y>:
    -----
    One is in CS, the other is in IT.
    -----

    Glasser Michael Snit <XnsAC703A...@tkRp4lHo04W6T4lOY83W.tuvxq31.7>:
    -----
    I'd also like to know how Snit could be so confused
    concerning which degree he has.
    -----

    Other than you being a functionally illiterate fraud, how do you explain
    any of that?

    --
    Puppy Videos!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhOfBmWwCVY
    Steve Carroll the Narcissistic Bigot


    The guy is as popular as a fart in a spacesuit -- and with good reason. Just Wondering should grasp everyone knows he is just being a moron.

    With no reason at all, as is expected for Just Wondering. I bet Just Wondering does not even know what is wrong with Alex Jones.

    Steven Petruzzellis the Narcissistic Bigot is a racist. Malwarebytes is
    based on Linux. Period.


    -
    Live on Kickstarter
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NmOycD4yKU https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22NARCISSISTIC+BIGOT%22
    Dustin Cook the functionally illiterate fraud

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)