https://www.zdnet.com/article/ios-15-0-1-bugfixes-galore/

A few weeks out at 2 bug fixes already. When will Apple release the real RTM version, not another public Beta?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2021-10-11 3:30 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ios-15-0-1-bugfixes-galore/

A few weeks out at 2 bug fixes already. When will Apple release the real RTM version, not another public Beta?

Android 11 was release on September 8, 2020.

14 days later:

'Android 11 hasn't been the smoothest to date. Find out what feature
came up missing on Jack Wallen's Google Pixel 4.'

<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-android-11-update-is-buggy-and-missing-features/>

There have been 48 release versions of Android 11 to date:

<https://source.android.com/setup/start/build-numbers>

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Monday, October 11, 2021 at 3:30:58 PM UTC-7, Thomas E. wrote:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ios-15-0-1-bugfixes-galore/

A few weeks out at 2 bug fixes already. When will Apple release the real RTM version, not another public Beta?

How would you believe me if you understand there is a possibility that I
use shills? That actually does not give you gas? This is the contemporary 'rule' by those calling themselves 'liberals', you must 'exonerate' yourself, you are no longer merely suspected, you are tossed away until you pin the
blame on Troll Killer Snit, which is not possible in this environment. Thus,
my original statement stands sincere and correct. Everyone is Vallor -- the oldest gag in the book. Those who know this thread knows it is not created
in the sense Troll Killer Snit is claiming, and many of them are clearly
hand written. Why does Vallor focus on his own self-esteem issues so much?
Ha, ha, ha, ha!


--
What Every Entrepreneur Must Know!! https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22FUNCTIONAL+ILLITERATE+FRAUD%22
Steve 'Narcissistic Bigot' Carroll

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Not even close. iOS 13 was so bad that the first released version was
13.1

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:11:27 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-11 3:30 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ios-15-0-1-bugfixes-galore/

A few weeks out at 2 bug fixes already. When will Apple release the real RTM version, not another public Beta?

Android 11 was release on September 8, 2020.

14 days later:

'Android 11 hasn't been the smoothest to date. Find out what feature
came up missing on Jack Wallen's Google Pixel 4.'

<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-android-11-update-is-buggy-and-missing-features/>

There have been 48 release versions of Android 11 to date:

<https://source.android.com/setup/start/build-numbers>

Android's issues have nothing to do with the fact that Apple releases iOS x.0 knowing that there are issues that require an update within days.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 12:25:28 AM UTC-4, Bob Campbell wrote:

Not even close. iOS 13 was so bad that the first released version was
13.1

Wrong! That is not at all what I remember. This is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_13

iOS 13.0, build 17A577 was released on September 19, 2019. The initial release was only on iPhones.

Over the next 6 weeks or so there were 4 bug fix releases issued for 13.0. There were a total of 16 updates issued.

iOS 13.1 build 17A844 was released on September 24, 2019 for iPod Touch and HomePod.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2021-10-14 8:05 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 12:25:28 AM UTC-4, Bob Campbell wrote:

Not even close. iOS 13 was so bad that the first released version was
13.1

Wrong! That is not at all what I remember. This is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_13

iOS 13.0, build 17A577 was released on September 19, 2019. The initial release was only on iPhones.

Over the next 6 weeks or so there were 4 bug fix releases issued for 13.0. There were a total of 16 updates issued.

iOS 13.1 build 17A844 was released on September 24, 2019 for iPod Touch and HomePod.

And you imagine that bugs aren't found shortly after the release of
nearly every major OS release, Liarboy?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 10:54:32 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:11:27 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-11 3:30 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ios-15-0-1-bugfixes-galore/

A few weeks out at 2 bug fixes already. When will Apple release the real RTM version, not another public Beta?

Android 11 was release on September 8, 2020.

14 days later:

'Android 11 hasn't been the smoothest to date. Find out what feature
came up missing on Jack Wallen's Google Pixel 4.'

<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-android-11-update-is-buggy-and-missing-features/>

There have been 48 release versions of Android 11 to date:

<https://source.android.com/setup/start/build-numbers>

Android's issues have nothing to do with the fact that Apple releases iOS x.0 knowing that
there are issues that require an update within days.

But put your Project Manager hat on for a minute, Tom: what do you suggest as the
alternative?

Because if you just simplistically say "ship bug-free software", that means you'll never ship.
It also means that you've never been professionally involved in Software development or testing.

-hh

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2021-10-14 7:54 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:11:27 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-11 3:30 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ios-15-0-1-bugfixes-galore/

A few weeks out at 2 bug fixes already. When will Apple release the real RTM version, not another public Beta?

Android 11 was release on September 8, 2020.

14 days later:

'Android 11 hasn't been the smoothest to date. Find out what feature
came up missing on Jack Wallen's Google Pixel 4.'

<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-android-11-update-is-buggy-and-missing-features/>

There have been 48 release versions of Android 11 to date:

<https://source.android.com/setup/start/build-numbers>

Android's issues have nothing to do with the fact that Apple releases iOS x.0 knowing that there are issues that require an update within days.

<https://www.droid-life.com/2020/10/05/android-11s-first-update-fixes-a-bunch-of-pixel-bugs/>

iOS 15 was released on September 20, and you found an update from
October 1. So 11 days later.

Android 11 was released on September 8th and was updated to fix bugs
October 5.

Is that really so different?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 7:54:32 AM UTC-7, Thomas E. wrote:

On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:11:27 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-11 3:30 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ios-15-0-1-bugfixes-galore/

A few weeks out at 2 bug fixes already. When will Apple release the real RTM version, not another public Beta?

Android 11 was release on September 8, 2020.

14 days later:

'Android 11 hasn't been the smoothest to date. Find out what feature
came up missing on Jack Wallen's Google Pixel 4.'

<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-android-11-update-is-buggy-and-missing-features/>

There have been 48 release versions of Android 11 to date:

<https://source.android.com/setup/start/build-numbers>

Android's issues have nothing to do with the fact that Apple releases iOS x.0 knowing that there are issues that require an update within days.

Contrary to Theo's claim that he has "no experience in making a flood bot"
(a lie as exposed by the fact that he annoyed everyone in COLA) he was
seen asking IT departments how they would trick someone to give up their password. Theo expects people to believe that a poster such as Shadow who
he has repeatedly claimed to be a deceiver is someone to 'respect'? Why
can he assume people are THAT stupid?

No no hell no. He never agreed to stop trolling. He lied about his trolling which surprised nobody.

Now that nobody is speaking to Theo, he's making it sound like he's broken
NNTP protocol -- when in fact, people are just sick of his shit. Calls
it "obsessing" over him, even though he continues to provoke that selfsame retort.

Theo lies so frequently that he has a difficult time keeping track of
his misrepresentations. Or his sock puppets and other crap.


--
Live on Kickstarter!! https://www.google.com/search?q=Steve+Petruzzellis%3A+narcissistic+bigot https://swisscows.com/web?query=dustin%20cook%20%22functionally%20illiterate%20fraud%22
https://www.bing.com/search?q=dustin%20cook%20functionally%20illiterate%20fraud Dustin Cook is a functional illiterate fraud

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 2:04:49 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-14 7:54 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:11:27 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-11 3:30 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ios-15-0-1-bugfixes-galore/

A few weeks out at 2 bug fixes already. When will Apple release the real RTM version, not another public Beta?

Android 11 was release on September 8, 2020.

14 days later:

'Android 11 hasn't been the smoothest to date. Find out what feature
came up missing on Jack Wallen's Google Pixel 4.'

<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-android-11-update-is-buggy-and-missing-features/>

There have been 48 release versions of Android 11 to date:

<https://source.android.com/setup/start/build-numbers>

Android's issues have nothing to do with the fact that Apple releases iOS x.0 knowing that there are issues that require an update within days.

<https://www.droid-life.com/2020/10/05/android-11s-first-update-fixes-a-bunch-of-pixel-bugs/>

iOS 15 was released on September 20, and you found an update from
October 1. So 11 days later.

Android 11 was released on September 8th and was updated to fix bugs
October 5.

Is that really so different?

What did you expect from the lying imbecile? That Mike Easter dunce has nothing to waste but time. He has nothing else. Especially not confidence. We're
all sorry Mike Easter's a paranoid, narcissistic, delusional liar but that's not gonna change anything <shrug>.

Mike Easter claimed the headers were entirely consistent with many of the socks. Well, why is he having such trouble backing his claim up when asked
to do so? In other words, if his statement was actually true, and not just
a fruitless attempt to come to Snits rescue?

I'm not going to play like Snit did not square me away on my network and
I am thankful for his time. Mike Easter has my example to follow and could start to act as if he is no longer complete ignorant from this day forward
;) Can you stop asking for my attention?


--
Get Rich Slow!
https://www.womply.com/biz/89a-dental-care-prescott-valley-AZ/ https://swisscows.com/web?query=%22functionally%20illiterate%20fraud%22 https://prescott-arizona.janbarham.org.au/yavapai-college-library-202.html/ Dustin Cook is a functional illiterate fraud

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Friday, October 15, 2021 at 10:47:19 AM UTC-7, Steve Carroll wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 7:54:32 AM UTC-7, Thomas E. wrote:

On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:11:27 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-11 3:30 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ios-15-0-1-bugfixes-galore/

A few weeks out at 2 bug fixes already. When will Apple release the real RTM version, not another public Beta?

Android 11 was release on September 8, 2020.

14 days later:

'Android 11 hasn't been the smoothest to date. Find out what feature
came up missing on Jack Wallen's Google Pixel 4.'

<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-android-11-update-is-buggy-and-missing-features/>

There have been 48 release versions of Android 11 to date:

<https://source.android.com/setup/start/build-numbers>

Android's issues have nothing to do with the fact that Apple releases iOS x.0 knowing that there are issues that require an update within days.

Contrary to Theo's claim that he has "no experience in making a flood bot"
(a lie as exposed by the fact that he annoyed everyone in COLA) he was
seen asking IT departments how they would trick someone to give up their password. Theo expects people to believe that a poster such as Shadow who
he has repeatedly claimed to be a deceiver is someone to 'respect'? Why
can he assume people are THAT stupid?

No no hell no. He never agreed to stop trolling. He lied about his trolling which surprised nobody.

Now that nobody is speaking to Theo, he's making it sound like he's broken NNTP protocol -- when in fact, people are just sick of his shit. Calls
it "obsessing" over him, even though he continues to provoke that selfsame retort.

Theo lies so frequently that he has a difficult time keeping track of
his misrepresentations. Or his sock puppets and other crap.

--
Live on Kickstarter!! https://www.google.com/search?q=Steve+Petruzzellis%3A+narcissistic+bigot https://swisscows.com/web?query=dustin%20cook%20%22functionally%20illiterate%20fraud%22
https://www.bing.com/search?q=dustin%20cook%20functionally%20illiterate%20fraud
Dustin Cook is a functional illiterate fraud

"Somewhere between 2000 or 2010 I trusted Steve Carroll, the completely laughable liar" - Theo.

Now that Steve Carroll appreciated how effective Theo is at playing 'injured party' he understands this isn't nearly as bizarre as it appeared. Who doesn't know that this kind of rot is Theo's approach, not the MO of Steve Carroll? It's all just nonsense... the trolling, the sock puppets, the writing of nonsense, the outbursts... the diaper rash and tendency to show how ashamed
he is over being banned from the schoolyard for pooping in it again ;) Ha,
ha!

I bet he thinks his life was rough. For all the gloating Theo's done on
this topic, the 'Accessibility Specialist' does not know how to do this.
It really takes a couple seconds to click and drag across a paragraph and 'Google' it.

--
What Every Entrepreneur Must Know!! https://www.bing.com/search?q=dustin+cook+the+functionally+illiterate+fraud https://az-gycc.org/category/gycc/
Dustin Cook the functional illiterate fraud

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 1:12:56 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 10:54:32 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:11:27 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-11 3:30 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ios-15-0-1-bugfixes-galore/

A few weeks out at 2 bug fixes already. When will Apple release the real RTM version, not another public Beta?

Android 11 was release on September 8, 2020.

14 days later:

'Android 11 hasn't been the smoothest to date. Find out what feature
came up missing on Jack Wallen's Google Pixel 4.'

<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-android-11-update-is-buggy-and-missing-features/>

There have been 48 release versions of Android 11 to date:

<https://source.android.com/setup/start/build-numbers>

Android's issues have nothing to do with the fact that Apple releases iOS x.0 knowing that
there are issues that require an update within days.

But put your Project Manager hat on for a minute, Tom: what do you suggest as the
alternative?

Because if you just simplistically say "ship bug-free software", that means you'll never ship.
It also means that you've never been professionally involved in Software development or testing.

-hh

Actually I was once involved in development, even wrote the code. That was before the PC revolution.

In this case, the widespread CarPlay bugs should have been obvious if a meaningful number of beta users had been trying the OS in their car systems.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 5:18:10 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 1:12:56 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 10:54:32 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:11:27 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-11 3:30 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ios-15-0-1-bugfixes-galore/

A few weeks out at 2 bug fixes already. When will Apple release the real RTM version, not another public Beta?

Android 11 was release on September 8, 2020.

14 days later:

'Android 11 hasn't been the smoothest to date. Find out what feature came up missing on Jack Wallen's Google Pixel 4.'

<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-android-11-update-is-buggy-and-missing-features/>

There have been 48 release versions of Android 11 to date:

<https://source.android.com/setup/start/build-numbers>

Android's issues have nothing to do with the fact that Apple releases iOS x.0 knowing that
there are issues that require an update within days.

But put your Project Manager hat on for a minute, Tom: what do you suggest as the
alternative?

Because if you just simplistically say "ship bug-free software", that means you'll never ship.
It also means that you've never been professionally involved in Software development or testing.

Actually I was once involved in development, even wrote the code. That was before the PC revolution.

LOL, I had a job where I was writing on IBM punch cards too. And then another on terminals, etc. Things were waaaaay different back then vs today.

In this case, the widespread CarPlay bugs should have been obvious if a meaningful number of beta users had been trying the OS in their car systems.

Try tracking test cases in JIRA. You have used something from this century, right?

-hh

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 10:07:02 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 5:18:10 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 1:12:56 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 10:54:32 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:11:27 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-11 3:30 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ios-15-0-1-bugfixes-galore/

A few weeks out at 2 bug fixes already. When will Apple release the real RTM version, not another public Beta?

Android 11 was release on September 8, 2020.

14 days later:

'Android 11 hasn't been the smoothest to date. Find out what feature came up missing on Jack Wallen's Google Pixel 4.'

<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-android-11-update-is-buggy-and-missing-features/>

There have been 48 release versions of Android 11 to date:

<https://source.android.com/setup/start/build-numbers>

Android's issues have nothing to do with the fact that Apple releases iOS x.0 knowing that
there are issues that require an update within days.

But put your Project Manager hat on for a minute, Tom: what do you suggest as the
alternative?

Because if you just simplistically say "ship bug-free software", that means you'll never ship.
It also means that you've never been professionally involved in Software development or testing.

Actually I was once involved in development, even wrote the code. That was before the PC revolution.

LOL, I had a job where I was writing on IBM punch cards too. And then another
on terminals, etc. Things were waaaaay different back then vs today.

In this case, the widespread CarPlay bugs should have been obvious if a meaningful number of beta users had been trying the OS in their car systems.

Try tracking test cases in JIRA. You have used something from this century, right?

-hh

It was 1982-84 or thereabouts. I was on a small team using BASIC code on a DEC PDP-10 system (later upgraded to VAX) running TOPS-10. Long before that for my Master's and PhD projects I wrote some JCL and SAS code on an IBM mainframe. That was input on
punch cards. Not much experience since then other than dabbling a bit with Excel VB.

My point is simple - anything as widespread as the CarPlay issues seen in iOS 15 could have/should have been detected by a widespread group of beta testers.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, October 25, 2021 at 8:16:48 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 10:07:02 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 5:18:10 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 1:12:56 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 10:54:32 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:11:27 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-11 3:30 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ios-15-0-1-bugfixes-galore/

A few weeks out at 2 bug fixes already. When will Apple release the real RTM version, not another public Beta?

Android 11 was release on September 8, 2020.

14 days later:

'Android 11 hasn't been the smoothest to date. Find out what feature
came up missing on Jack Wallen's Google Pixel 4.'

<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-android-11-update-is-buggy-and-missing-features/>

There have been 48 release versions of Android 11 to date:

<https://source.android.com/setup/start/build-numbers>

Android's issues have nothing to do with the fact that Apple releases iOS x.0 knowing that
there are issues that require an update within days.

But put your Project Manager hat on for a minute, Tom: what do you suggest as the
alternative?

Because if you just simplistically say "ship bug-free software", that means you'll never ship.
It also means that you've never been professionally involved in Software development or testing.

Actually I was once involved in development, even wrote the code. That was before the PC revolution.

LOL, I had a job where I was writing on IBM punch cards too. And then another
on terminals, etc. Things were waaaaay different back then vs today.

In this case, the widespread CarPlay bugs should have been obvious if a meaningful number of beta users had been trying the OS in their car systems.

Try tracking test cases in JIRA. You have used something from this century, right?

It was 1982-84 or thereabouts. I was on a small team using BASIC code on a DEC PDP-10 system (later upgraded to VAX) running TOPS-10.

That's still ancient history/ the PDP-10's max standard RAM was just 1MB.

Long before that for my Master's and PhD projects I wrote some JCL and SAS code on an IBM mainframe. That was input on punch cards. Not much experience since then other than dabbling a bit with Excel VB.

Try handcrafting some HTML to give you an idea of how the complexity has blossomed.

My point is simple - anything as widespread as the CarPlay issues seen
in iOS 15 could have/should have been detected by a widespread group
of beta testers.

Perhaps, but Apple is known for keeping things "close hold", so the list of Beta testers was likely much smaller ... and if they're in-house and who
get frequent updates, they're less likely to be as actively testing older configurations to the same level of rigor.

Has anyone tracked down yet what the alleged problem is? If so, that
might be informative as to how the 'big' got missed.


-hh

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2021-10-25 5:16 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 10:07:02 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 5:18:10 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 1:12:56 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 10:54:32 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:11:27 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-11 3:30 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ios-15-0-1-bugfixes-galore/

A few weeks out at 2 bug fixes already. When will Apple release the real RTM version, not another public Beta?

Android 11 was release on September 8, 2020.

14 days later:

'Android 11 hasn't been the smoothest to date. Find out what feature >>>>>> came up missing on Jack Wallen's Google Pixel 4.'

<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-android-11-update-is-buggy-and-missing-features/>

There have been 48 release versions of Android 11 to date:

<https://source.android.com/setup/start/build-numbers>

Android's issues have nothing to do with the fact that Apple releases iOS x.0 knowing that
there are issues that require an update within days.

But put your Project Manager hat on for a minute, Tom: what do you suggest as the
alternative?

Because if you just simplistically say "ship bug-free software", that means you'll never ship.
It also means that you've never been professionally involved in Software development or testing.

Actually I was once involved in development, even wrote the code. That was before the PC revolution.

LOL, I had a job where I was writing on IBM punch cards too. And then another
on terminals, etc. Things were waaaaay different back then vs today.

In this case, the widespread CarPlay bugs should have been obvious if a
meaningful number of beta users had been trying the OS in their car systems.

Try tracking test cases in JIRA. You have used something from this century, right?

-hh

It was 1982-84 or thereabouts. I was on a small team using BASIC code on a DEC PDP-10 system (later upgraded to VAX) running TOPS-10. Long before that for my Master's and PhD projects I wrote some JCL and SAS code on an IBM mainframe. That was input on

punch cards. Not much experience since then other than dabbling a bit with Excel VB.

My point is simple - anything as widespread as the CarPlay issues seen in iOS 15 could have/should have been detected by a widespread group of beta testers.

So you wrote some BASIC on a PDP-10 when you were a teenager, and you
think you understand software development, do you?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 12:09:45 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-25 5:16 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 10:07:02 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 5:18:10 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 1:12:56 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 10:54:32 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>> On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:11:27 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-11 3:30 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ios-15-0-1-bugfixes-galore/

A few weeks out at 2 bug fixes already. When will Apple release the real RTM version, not another public Beta?

Android 11 was release on September 8, 2020.

14 days later:

'Android 11 hasn't been the smoothest to date. Find out what feature >>>>>> came up missing on Jack Wallen's Google Pixel 4.'

<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-android-11-update-is-buggy-and-missing-features/>

There have been 48 release versions of Android 11 to date:

<https://source.android.com/setup/start/build-numbers>

Android's issues have nothing to do with the fact that Apple releases iOS x.0 knowing that
there are issues that require an update within days.

But put your Project Manager hat on for a minute, Tom: what do you suggest as the
alternative?

Because if you just simplistically say "ship bug-free software", that means you'll never ship.
It also means that you've never been professionally involved in Software development or testing.

Actually I was once involved in development, even wrote the code. That was before the PC revolution.

LOL, I had a job where I was writing on IBM punch cards too. And then another
on terminals, etc. Things were waaaaay different back then vs today.

In this case, the widespread CarPlay bugs should have been obvious if a >>> meaningful number of beta users had been trying the OS in their car systems.

Try tracking test cases in JIRA. You have used something from this century, right?

-hh

It was 1982-84 or thereabouts. I was on a small team using BASIC code on a DEC PDP-10 system (later upgraded to VAX) running TOPS-10. Long before that for my Master's and PhD projects I wrote some JCL and SAS code on an IBM mainframe. That was input

on punch cards. Not much experience since then other than dabbling a bit with Excel VB.

My point is simple - anything as widespread as the CarPlay issues seen in iOS 15 could have/should have been detected by a widespread group of beta testers.

So you wrote some BASIC on a PDP-10 when you were a teenager, and you
think you understand software development, do you?

I do understand quite well that you let a few people test software extensively before you release it to a broader user group. I was 36 or 37 when I was programming on that platform in the 1980's. I was a teenager in the late 50's and early 60's - before
you were born I think.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2021-10-28 5:34 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 12:09:45 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-25 5:16 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 10:07:02 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 5:18:10 PM UTC-4, Thomas E.
wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 1:12:56 PM UTC-4, -hh
wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 10:54:32 AM UTC-4, Thomas
E. wrote:

On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:11:27 PM UTC-4, Alan
wrote:

On 2021-10-11 3:30 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ios-15-0-1-bugfixes-galore/

A few weeks out at 2 bug fixes already. When will Apple release the real
RTM version, not another public Beta?

Android 11 was release on September 8, 2020.

14 days later:

'Android 11 hasn't been the smoothest to date. Find out
what feature came up missing on Jack Wallen's Google
Pixel 4.'

<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-android-11-update-is-buggy-and-missing-features/>



There have been 48 release versions of Android 11 to date:

<https://source.android.com/setup/start/build-numbers>

Android's issues have nothing to do with the fact that
Apple releases iOS x.0 knowing that there are issues that
require an update within days.

But put your Project Manager hat on for a minute, Tom: what
do you suggest as the alternative?

Because if you just simplistically say "ship bug-free
software", that means you'll never ship. It also means that
you've never been professionally involved in Software
development or testing.

Actually I was once involved in development, even wrote the
code. That was before the PC revolution.

LOL, I had a job where I was writing on IBM punch cards too.
And then another on terminals, etc. Things were waaaaay
different back then vs today.

In this case, the widespread CarPlay bugs should have been
obvious if a meaningful number of beta users had been trying
the OS in their car systems.

Try tracking test cases in JIRA. You have used something from
this century, right?

-hh

It was 1982-84 or thereabouts. I was on a small team using BASIC
code on a DEC PDP-10 system (later upgraded to VAX) running
TOPS-10. Long before that for my Master's and PhD projects I
wrote some JCL and SAS code on an IBM mainframe. That was input
on punch cards. Not much experience since then other than
dabbling a bit with Excel VB.

My point is simple - anything as widespread as the CarPlay issues
seen in iOS 15 could have/should have been detected by a
widespread group of beta testers.

So you wrote some BASIC on a PDP-10 when you were a teenager, and
you think you understand software development, do you?

I do understand quite well that you let a few people test software extensively before you release it to a broader user group. I was 36
or 37 when I was programming on that platform in the 1980's. I was a
teenager in the late 50's and early 60's - before you were born I
think.

Really?

You were on a small team, doing what? Not releasing software with
literally millions of lines of code to hundreds of millions of users,
were you?

How many users eventually used the software you "developed", Liarboy?
Were any of them outside of the organization of which you were a part?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 2:57:56 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-28 5:34 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 12:09:45 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-25 5:16 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 10:07:02 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 5:18:10 PM UTC-4, Thomas E.
wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 1:12:56 PM UTC-4, -hh
wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 10:54:32 AM UTC-4, Thomas
E. wrote:

On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:11:27 PM UTC-4, Alan
wrote:

On 2021-10-11 3:30 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ios-15-0-1-bugfixes-galore/ >>>>>>>>>

A few weeks out at 2 bug fixes already. When will Apple release the real
RTM version, not another public Beta?

Android 11 was release on September 8, 2020.

14 days later:

'Android 11 hasn't been the smoothest to date. Find out
what feature came up missing on Jack Wallen's Google
Pixel 4.'

<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-android-11-update-is-buggy-and-missing-features/>



There have been 48 release versions of Android 11 to date:

<https://source.android.com/setup/start/build-numbers>

Android's issues have nothing to do with the fact that
Apple releases iOS x.0 knowing that there are issues that
require an update within days.

But put your Project Manager hat on for a minute, Tom: what
do you suggest as the alternative?

Because if you just simplistically say "ship bug-free
software", that means you'll never ship. It also means that
you've never been professionally involved in Software
development or testing.

Actually I was once involved in development, even wrote the
code. That was before the PC revolution.

LOL, I had a job where I was writing on IBM punch cards too.
And then another on terminals, etc. Things were waaaaay
different back then vs today.

In this case, the widespread CarPlay bugs should have been
obvious if a meaningful number of beta users had been trying
the OS in their car systems.

Try tracking test cases in JIRA. You have used something from
this century, right?

-hh

It was 1982-84 or thereabouts. I was on a small team using BASIC
code on a DEC PDP-10 system (later upgraded to VAX) running
TOPS-10. Long before that for my Master's and PhD projects I
wrote some JCL and SAS code on an IBM mainframe. That was input
on punch cards. Not much experience since then other than
dabbling a bit with Excel VB.

My point is simple - anything as widespread as the CarPlay issues
seen in iOS 15 could have/should have been detected by a
widespread group of beta testers.

So you wrote some BASIC on a PDP-10 when you were a teenager, and
you think you understand software development, do you?

I do understand quite well that you let a few people test software extensively before you release it to a broader user group. I was 36
or 37 when I was programming on that platform in the 1980's. I was a teenager in the late 50's and early 60's - before you were born I
think.

Really?

You were on a small team, doing what? Not releasing software with
literally millions of lines of code to hundreds of millions of users,
were you?

How many users eventually used the software you "developed", Liarboy?
Were any of them outside of the organization of which you were a part?

Scale does not matter. Released software should be vetted with a large group. CarPlay issues should have been discovered. It’s a key iOS feature.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2021-10-30 3:08 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 2:57:56 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-28 5:34 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 12:09:45 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-25 5:16 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 10:07:02 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 5:18:10 PM UTC-4, Thomas E.
wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 1:12:56 PM UTC-4, -hh
wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 10:54:32 AM UTC-4,
Thomas E. wrote:

On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:11:27 PM UTC-4,
Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-11 3:30 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ios-15-0-1-bugfixes-galore/ >>>>>>>>>>>

A few weeks out at 2 bug fixes already. When will Apple release the real

RTM version, not another public Beta?

Android 11 was release on September 8, 2020.

14 days later:

'Android 11 hasn't been the smoothest to date. Find
out what feature came up missing on Jack Wallen's
Google Pixel 4.'

<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-android-11-update-is-buggy-and-missing-features/>

There have been 48 release versions of Android 11 to date:

<https://source.android.com/setup/start/build-numbers>

Android's issues have nothing to do with the fact that

Apple releases iOS x.0 knowing that there are issues
that require an update within days.

But put your Project Manager hat on for a minute, Tom:
what do you suggest as the alternative?

Because if you just simplistically say "ship bug-free
software", that means you'll never ship. It also means
that you've never been professionally involved in
Software development or testing.

Actually I was once involved in development, even wrote
the code. That was before the PC revolution.

LOL, I had a job where I was writing on IBM punch cards
too. And then another on terminals, etc. Things were
waaaaay different back then vs today.

In this case, the widespread CarPlay bugs should have
been obvious if a meaningful number of beta users had
been trying the OS in their car systems.

Try tracking test cases in JIRA. You have used something
from this century, right?

-hh

It was 1982-84 or thereabouts. I was on a small team using
BASIC code on a DEC PDP-10 system (later upgraded to VAX)
running TOPS-10. Long before that for my Master's and PhD
projects I wrote some JCL and SAS code on an IBM mainframe.
That was input on punch cards. Not much experience since then
other than dabbling a bit with Excel VB.

My point is simple - anything as widespread as the CarPlay
issues seen in iOS 15 could have/should have been detected by
a widespread group of beta testers.

So you wrote some BASIC on a PDP-10 when you were a teenager,
and you think you understand software development, do you?

I do understand quite well that you let a few people test
software extensively before you release it to a broader user
group. I was 36 or 37 when I was programming on that platform in
the 1980's. I was a teenager in the late 50's and early 60's -
before you were born I think.

Really?

You were on a small team, doing what? Not releasing software with
literally millions of lines of code to hundreds of millions of
users, were you?

How many users eventually used the software you "developed",
Liarboy? Were any of them outside of the organization of which you
were a part?

Scale does not matter. Released software should be vetted with a
large group. CarPlay issues should have been discovered. It’s a key
iOS feature.

Scale matters very much.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, October 30, 2021 at 6:14:49 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-30 3:08 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 2:57:56 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-28 5:34 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 12:09:45 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-25 5:16 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 10:07:02 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 5:18:10 PM UTC-4, Thomas E.
wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 1:12:56 PM UTC-4, -hh
wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 10:54:32 AM UTC-4,
Thomas E. wrote:

On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:11:27 PM UTC-4,
Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-11 3:30 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ios-15-0-1-bugfixes-galore/ >>>>>>>>>>>

A few weeks out at 2 bug fixes already. When will Apple release the real

RTM version, not another public Beta?

Android 11 was release on September 8, 2020.

14 days later:

'Android 11 hasn't been the smoothest to date. Find
out what feature came up missing on Jack Wallen's
Google Pixel 4.'

<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-android-11-update-is-buggy-and-missing-features/>

There have been 48 release versions of Android 11 to date:

<https://source.android.com/setup/start/build-numbers>

Android's issues have nothing to do with the fact that

Apple releases iOS x.0 knowing that there are issues
that require an update within days.

But put your Project Manager hat on for a minute, Tom:
what do you suggest as the alternative?

Because if you just simplistically say "ship bug-free
software", that means you'll never ship. It also means
that you've never been professionally involved in
Software development or testing.

Actually I was once involved in development, even wrote
the code. That was before the PC revolution.

LOL, I had a job where I was writing on IBM punch cards
too. And then another on terminals, etc. Things were
waaaaay different back then vs today.

In this case, the widespread CarPlay bugs should have
been obvious if a meaningful number of beta users had
been trying the OS in their car systems.

Try tracking test cases in JIRA. You have used something
from this century, right?

-hh

It was 1982-84 or thereabouts. I was on a small team using
BASIC code on a DEC PDP-10 system (later upgraded to VAX)
running TOPS-10. Long before that for my Master's and PhD
projects I wrote some JCL and SAS code on an IBM mainframe.
That was input on punch cards. Not much experience since then
other than dabbling a bit with Excel VB.

My point is simple - anything as widespread as the CarPlay
issues seen in iOS 15 could have/should have been detected by
a widespread group of beta testers.

So you wrote some BASIC on a PDP-10 when you were a teenager,
and you think you understand software development, do you?

I do understand quite well that you let a few people test
software extensively before you release it to a broader user
group. I was 36 or 37 when I was programming on that platform in
the 1980's. I was a teenager in the late 50's and early 60's -
before you were born I think.

Really?

You were on a small team, doing what? Not releasing software with
literally millions of lines of code to hundreds of millions of
users, were you?

How many users eventually used the software you "developed",
Liarboy? Were any of them outside of the organization of which you
were a part?

Scale does not matter. Released software should be vetted with a
large group. CarPlay issues should have been discovered. It’s a key
iOS feature.

Scale matters very much.

It does in the sense that the more lines of code and more complexity the more beta testers you need. HOW could Apple have missed the iPhone 13/iOS/CarPlay problems. Here is how. Apple is so paranoid about hardware releases they do not do tens of
thousands of beta tests with an OS revision and a new phone.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2021-11-03 7:33 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Saturday, October 30, 2021 at 6:14:49 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-30 3:08 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 2:57:56 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-28 5:34 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 12:09:45 PM UTC-4, Alan
wrote:

On 2021-10-25 5:16 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 10:07:02 PM UTC-4, -hh
wrote:

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 5:18:10 PM UTC-4, Thomas
E. wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 1:12:56 PM UTC-4,
-hh wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 10:54:32 AM
UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:11:27 PM
UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-11 3:30 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ios-15-0-1-bugfixes-galore/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>

A few weeks out at 2 bug fixes already. When will Apple release the real

RTM version, not another public Beta?

Android 11 was release on September 8, 2020.

14 days later:

'Android 11 hasn't been the smoothest to date.
Find out what feature came up missing on Jack
Wallen's Google Pixel 4.'

<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-android-11-update-is-buggy-and-missing-features/>

There have been 48 release versions of Android 11 to date:

<https://source.android.com/setup/start/build-numbers>

Android's issues have nothing to do with the fact that

Apple releases iOS x.0 knowing that there are
issues that require an update within days.

But put your Project Manager hat on for a minute,
Tom: what do you suggest as the alternative?

Because if you just simplistically say "ship
bug-free software", that means you'll never ship.
It also means that you've never been professionally
involved in Software development or testing.

Actually I was once involved in development, even
wrote the code. That was before the PC revolution.

LOL, I had a job where I was writing on IBM punch
cards too. And then another on terminals, etc. Things
were waaaaay different back then vs today.

In this case, the widespread CarPlay bugs should
have been obvious if a meaningful number of beta
users had been trying the OS in their car systems.

Try tracking test cases in JIRA. You have used
something from this century, right?

-hh

It was 1982-84 or thereabouts. I was on a small team
using BASIC code on a DEC PDP-10 system (later upgraded
to VAX) running TOPS-10. Long before that for my Master's
and PhD projects I wrote some JCL and SAS code on an IBM
mainframe. That was input on punch cards. Not much
experience since then other than dabbling a bit with
Excel VB.

My point is simple - anything as widespread as the
CarPlay issues seen in iOS 15 could have/should have been
detected by a widespread group of beta testers.

So you wrote some BASIC on a PDP-10 when you were a
teenager, and you think you understand software
development, do you?

I do understand quite well that you let a few people test
software extensively before you release it to a broader user
group. I was 36 or 37 when I was programming on that platform
in the 1980's. I was a teenager in the late 50's and early
60's - before you were born I think.

Really?

You were on a small team, doing what? Not releasing software
with literally millions of lines of code to hundreds of
millions of users, were you?

How many users eventually used the software you "developed",
Liarboy? Were any of them outside of the organization of which
you were a part?

Scale does not matter. Released software should be vetted with a
large group. CarPlay issues should have been discovered. It’s a
key iOS feature.

Scale matters very much.

It does in the sense that the more lines of code and more complexity
the more beta testers you need. HOW could Apple have missed the
iPhone 13/iOS/CarPlay problems. Here is how. Apple is so paranoid
about hardware releases they do not do tens of thousands of beta
tests with an OS revision and a new phone.

So you were completely wrong when you said, "Scale does not matter".

Got it.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, November 3, 2021 at 11:17:30 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-11-03 7:33 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Saturday, October 30, 2021 at 6:14:49 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-30 3:08 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 2:57:56 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-28 5:34 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 12:09:45 PM UTC-4, Alan
wrote:

On 2021-10-25 5:16 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 10:07:02 PM UTC-4, -hh
wrote:

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 5:18:10 PM UTC-4, Thomas
E. wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 1:12:56 PM UTC-4,
-hh wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 10:54:32 AM
UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:11:27 PM
UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-11 3:30 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ios-15-0-1-bugfixes-galore/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>

A few weeks out at 2 bug fixes already. When will Apple release the real >>>> RTM version, not another public Beta?

Android 11 was release on September 8, 2020.

14 days later:

'Android 11 hasn't been the smoothest to date.
Find out what feature came up missing on Jack
Wallen's Google Pixel 4.'

<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-android-11-update-is-buggy-and-missing-features/>

There have been 48 release versions of Android 11 to date:

<https://source.android.com/setup/start/build-numbers> >>>>>>>>>>>

Android's issues have nothing to do with the fact that

Apple releases iOS x.0 knowing that there are
issues that require an update within days.

But put your Project Manager hat on for a minute,
Tom: what do you suggest as the alternative?

Because if you just simplistically say "ship
bug-free software", that means you'll never ship.
It also means that you've never been professionally
involved in Software development or testing.

Actually I was once involved in development, even
wrote the code. That was before the PC revolution.

LOL, I had a job where I was writing on IBM punch
cards too. And then another on terminals, etc. Things
were waaaaay different back then vs today.

In this case, the widespread CarPlay bugs should
have been obvious if a meaningful number of beta
users had been trying the OS in their car systems.

Try tracking test cases in JIRA. You have used
something from this century, right?

-hh

It was 1982-84 or thereabouts. I was on a small team
using BASIC code on a DEC PDP-10 system (later upgraded
to VAX) running TOPS-10. Long before that for my Master's
and PhD projects I wrote some JCL and SAS code on an IBM
mainframe. That was input on punch cards. Not much
experience since then other than dabbling a bit with
Excel VB.

My point is simple - anything as widespread as the
CarPlay issues seen in iOS 15 could have/should have been
detected by a widespread group of beta testers.

So you wrote some BASIC on a PDP-10 when you were a
teenager, and you think you understand software
development, do you?

I do understand quite well that you let a few people test
software extensively before you release it to a broader user
group. I was 36 or 37 when I was programming on that platform
in the 1980's. I was a teenager in the late 50's and early
60's - before you were born I think.

Really?

You were on a small team, doing what? Not releasing software
with literally millions of lines of code to hundreds of
millions of users, were you?

How many users eventually used the software you "developed",
Liarboy? Were any of them outside of the organization of which
you were a part?

Scale does not matter. Released software should be vetted with a
large group. CarPlay issues should have been discovered. It’s a
key iOS feature.

Scale matters very much.

It does in the sense that the more lines of code and more complexity
the more beta testers you need. HOW could Apple have missed the
iPhone 13/iOS/CarPlay problems. Here is how. Apple is so paranoid
about hardware releases they do not do tens of thousands of beta
tests with an OS revision and a new phone.

So you were completely wrong when you said, "Scale does not matter".

Got it.

No, you are wrong. My point was that as scale increases you need more testing. The systems we developed were pretty simple by today's standards. This was before the PC/Internet/Intranet were even a thing. Staff had dumb terminals for the DEC/PDP-10 and
stand-alone IBM PC's. We did our testing with a small group and found a few issues. The system became obsolete when we went to a networked PC/Internet environment and the PDP-10 timeshare system was taken down. IT took over the servers that replaced the
PDP-10 and we scaled up the systems far beyond what our small division had time to do. You are probably about 15 years younger than me. Ever program a dumb terminal timesharing PDP-10 using Basic?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2021-11-04 6:52 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Wednesday, November 3, 2021 at 11:17:30 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-11-03 7:33 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Saturday, October 30, 2021 at 6:14:49 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-30 3:08 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 2:57:56 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-28 5:34 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021 at 12:09:45 PM UTC-4, Alan
wrote:

On 2021-10-25 5:16 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 10:07:02 PM UTC-4, -hh
wrote:

On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 5:18:10 PM UTC-4, Thomas
E. wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 1:12:56 PM UTC-4,
-hh wrote:

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 10:54:32 AM
UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:

On Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 4:11:27 PM
UTC-4, Alan wrote:

On 2021-10-11 3:30 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ios-15-0-1-bugfixes-galore/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

A few weeks out at 2 bug fixes already. When will Apple release the real >>>>>> RTM version, not another public Beta?

Android 11 was release on September 8, 2020.

14 days later:

'Android 11 hasn't been the smoothest to date.
Find out what feature came up missing on Jack
Wallen's Google Pixel 4.'

<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-android-11-update-is-buggy-and-missing-features/>

There have been 48 release versions of Android 11 to date:

<https://source.android.com/setup/start/build-numbers> >>>>>>>>>>>>>

Android's issues have nothing to do with the fact that

Apple releases iOS x.0 knowing that there are
issues that require an update within days.

But put your Project Manager hat on for a minute,
Tom: what do you suggest as the alternative?

Because if you just simplistically say "ship
bug-free software", that means you'll never ship.
It also means that you've never been professionally
involved in Software development or testing.

Actually I was once involved in development, even
wrote the code. That was before the PC revolution.

LOL, I had a job where I was writing on IBM punch
cards too. And then another on terminals, etc. Things
were waaaaay different back then vs today.

In this case, the widespread CarPlay bugs should
have been obvious if a meaningful number of beta
users had been trying the OS in their car systems.

Try tracking test cases in JIRA. You have used
something from this century, right?

-hh

It was 1982-84 or thereabouts. I was on a small team
using BASIC code on a DEC PDP-10 system (later upgraded
to VAX) running TOPS-10. Long before that for my Master's
and PhD projects I wrote some JCL and SAS code on an IBM
mainframe. That was input on punch cards. Not much
experience since then other than dabbling a bit with
Excel VB.

My point is simple - anything as widespread as the
CarPlay issues seen in iOS 15 could have/should have been
detected by a widespread group of beta testers.

So you wrote some BASIC on a PDP-10 when you were a
teenager, and you think you understand software
development, do you?

I do understand quite well that you let a few people test
software extensively before you release it to a broader user
group. I was 36 or 37 when I was programming on that platform
in the 1980's. I was a teenager in the late 50's and early
60's - before you were born I think.

Really?

You were on a small team, doing what? Not releasing software
with literally millions of lines of code to hundreds of
millions of users, were you?

How many users eventually used the software you "developed",
Liarboy? Were any of them outside of the organization of which
you were a part?

Scale does not matter. Released software should be vetted with a
large group. CarPlay issues should have been discovered. It’s a
key iOS feature.

Scale matters very much.

It does in the sense that the more lines of code and more complexity
the more beta testers you need. HOW could Apple have missed the
iPhone 13/iOS/CarPlay problems. Here is how. Apple is so paranoid
about hardware releases they do not do tens of thousands of beta
tests with an OS revision and a new phone.

So you were completely wrong when you said, "Scale does not matter".

Got it.

No, you are wrong. My point was that as scale increases you need more testing. The systems we developed were pretty simple by today's standards. This was before the PC/Internet/Intranet were even a thing. Staff had dumb terminals for the DEC/PDP-10 and

stand-alone IBM PC's. We did our testing with a small group and found a few issues. The system became obsolete when we went to a networked PC/Internet environment and the PDP-10 timeshare system was taken down. IT took over the servers that replaced the
PDP-10 and we scaled up the systems far beyond what our small division had time to do. You are probably about 15 years younger than me. Ever program a dumb terminal timesharing PDP-10 using Basic?


What would mean that scale matters...

...and you said "scale does not matter".

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