Well, there were definitely lows and highs this past weekend.
I started off on a low, when I got all the way out to Abbotsford to hook
up to my tow vehicle... ...and realized that I'd forgotten to transfer
my garage and trailer keys to my tow vehicle when I moved over my racing gear.
Then I went to the track and I was buoyed back up by the fact that my friend, Keith (from whom I rent the garage for the car) had his keys to
the garage and the spare key for my trailer hitch lock was hanging up inside.
So back to Abbotsford with very little time to spare to hook up the
trailer and make registration... ...which became an impossibility when I accidentally dropped the nose of the trailer off the ball. The time it
would take to get it back onto the ball would have meant arriving after registration had close for Saturday.
But there was still Sunday, and since I'd registered in two classes in
two separate groups (as a Formula F in Open Wheel 2 and as a Formula
Libre running without the restrictor in Open Wheel 1), I was still going
to get a decent amount of track time.
From there, the weekend unfolded... ...decently.
I went out for qualifying for Formula F and after helping a friend learn
the lines, I set out to do my own best lap... ...only to discover that
the gasoline that seemed to be on my dipstick was just from the foam in
the fuel cell being moist. So I didn't turn any truly representative
times, but somewhat fortunately, no one else turned much of a lap and I ended up second on the grid.
In Formula Libre, after pulling the restrictor, my best time was
1:14.722; good enough that I was in front of two FCs that still had a 15-20hp advantage on me and wings as well. But after looking at my
tires, I realized I had over-compensated for the ambient temperature and once up to race pace, the tires were too crowned.
For the first Formula F race of the day, I drop the tire pressures by
2psi (to 11psi front and 13psi rear), and my best race lap was 1:13.958; better than I'd run despite once again having a restrictor to limit the power to the level of the Kent. I won the race by more than 49 seconds, although if the new guy, Rob (running the stickier Hoosier Club Ford
tire to my American Racers), hadn't had to brake problems, I think he
and I would have had a terrific battle for the win.
In the first Open Wheel 1 race on Sunday, I knew I was just out there to have a good time. In all honesty, 130hp and no wings for added downforce
was simply not going to match up to the 145-150hp and wings of the FCs;
to say nothing of the guy in his F1000 motorcycle-engined car (a car of
that class holds our outright lap record) turning laps in about 1:05.
But I still think I gave a good account of myself. At the end of the
race, there were still to FCs behind me, neither of whom managed to turn
a faster lap than my best.
Then it all came apart again.
While putting the restrictor back into the car for the second Open Wheel
2, Formula F race, I managed to drop a bolt down the front of the engine into the same area as the belt for the oil scavenge pump and alternator
and the search for it took me past the time I had to get the car to
pre-grid in time for the race. And with the race that really mattered to
me no longer a possibility, I simply decided that running the car with a bolt loose in the engine bay near exposed, vital components wasn't worth
the risk of going out for the final Formula Libre race in Open Wheel 1.
Rob, who'd had braking problems that put him out of contention in the
first race of the day, did make the second race after finding some
o-rings that would cure his brake caliper leak, and his best lap of that race was just a whisker faster than my best lap of the first race of the day; just 15 thousandths of a second faster. But he was on the Hoosier
Club Ford tire and the consensus seems to be that they are about a 1.5-2 second advantage around our track.
So a foreshortened weekend...
...purely my own fault...
...but still a lot of fun.
Others were far less lucky.
Erle's weekend ended during qualifying for race 1 on Saturday, when—out
of the blue, his car snapped viciously to the left while braking for
turn 1, and he hit the wall hard. No damage to him, but his Tiga is
going to need a LOT of repair; both front suspensions, the front mounted radiator, parts of the rear end, bodywork. It was a bit of a mess. But
the construction of the car did its job and he walked away with nothing
but sore thumbs from being unable to get his hands away from the
steering wheel quickly enough.
One of our newly graduated novices, Courtenay, never got to race a
single session on Sunday, as the car she is sharing with its owner
suffered an engine problem while he, Don, was running the car on
Saturday to complete his novice program.
My good friend Pierre, whom I beat in qualifying despite him being in FC
to my FF (unrestricted) but still...
...he lost the car coming out of turn 9 and ended up going backwards
into the inside wall at about 85mph. Once again, the damage to the car wasn't good, but the driver was completely fine.
The new drivers in FF bode well for the coming year, and once we all
come to a consensus about what tires to run, I think we're going to get
some good racing for everyone.
:-)
On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 7:34:52 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
Well, there were definitely lows and highs this past weekend.
I started off on a low, when I got all the way out to Abbotsford to hook
up to my tow vehicle... ...and realized that I'd forgotten to transfer
my garage and trailer keys to my tow vehicle when I moved over my racing
gear.
Then I went to the track and I was buoyed back up by the fact that my
friend, Keith (from whom I rent the garage for the car) had his keys to
the garage and the spare key for my trailer hitch lock was hanging up
inside.
So back to Abbotsford with very little time to spare to hook up the
trailer and make registration... ...which became an impossibility when I
accidentally dropped the nose of the trailer off the ball. The time it
would take to get it back onto the ball would have meant arriving after
registration had close for Saturday.
Murphy's law, and why punchlists should contain even the obvious stuff.
While putting the restrictor back into the car for the second Open Wheel
2, Formula F race, I managed to drop a bolt down the front of the engine
into the same area as the belt for the oil scavenge pump and alternator
and the search for it took me past the time I had to get the car to
pre-grid in time for the race. And with the race that really mattered to
me no longer a possibility, I simply decided that running the car with a
bolt loose in the engine bay near exposed, vital components wasn't worth
the risk of going out for the final Formula Libre race in Open Wheel 1.
How would one normally 'fish out' a dropped fastener like that? Or is it more of a case that access is pretty straightforward, once you find out
just where it hid itself?
Rob, who'd had braking problems that put him out of contention in the
first race of the day, did make the second race after finding some
o-rings that would cure his brake caliper leak, and his best lap of that
race was just a whisker faster than my best lap of the first race of the
day; just 15 thousandths of a second faster. But he was on the Hoosier
Club Ford tire and the consensus seems to be that they are about a 1.5-2
second advantage around our track.
So a foreshortened weekend...
...purely my own fault...
...but still a lot of fun.
Others were far less lucky.
Erle's weekend ended during qualifying for race 1 on Saturday, when—out
of the blue, his car snapped viciously to the left while braking for
turn 1, and he hit the wall hard. No damage to him, but his Tiga is
going to need a LOT of repair; both front suspensions, the front mounted
radiator, parts of the rear end, bodywork. It was a bit of a mess. But
the construction of the car did its job and he walked away with nothing
but sore thumbs from being unable to get his hands away from the
steering wheel quickly enough.
One of our newly graduated novices, Courtenay, never got to race a
single session on Sunday, as the car she is sharing with its owner
suffered an engine problem while he, Don, was running the car on
Saturday to complete his novice program.
My good friend Pierre, whom I beat in qualifying despite him being in FC
to my FF (unrestricted) but still...
...he lost the car coming out of turn 9 and ended up going backwards
into the inside wall at about 85mph. Once again, the damage to the car
wasn't good, but the driver was completely fine.
The new drivers in FF bode well for the coming year, and once we all
come to a consensus about what tires to run, I think we're going to get
some good racing for everyone.
:-)
Learn, adapt, grow ... and have fun doing it.
Well, there were definitely lows and highs this past weekend.
I started off on a low, when I got all the way out to Abbotsford to hook
up to my tow vehicle... ...and realized that I'd forgotten to transfer
my garage and trailer keys to my tow vehicle when I moved over my racing gear.
Then I went to the track and I was buoyed back up by the fact that my friend, Keith (from whom I rent the garage for the car) had his keys to
the garage and the spare key for my trailer hitch lock was hanging up inside.
So back to Abbotsford with very little time to spare to hook up the
trailer and make registration... ...which became an impossibility when I accidentally dropped the nose of the trailer off the ball. The time it
would take to get it back onto the ball would have meant arriving after registration had close for Saturday.
But there was still Sunday, and since I'd registered in two classes in
two separate groups (as a Formula F in Open Wheel 2 and as a Formula
Libre running without the restrictor in Open Wheel 1), I was still going
to get a decent amount of track time.
From there, the weekend unfolded... ...decently.
I went out for qualifying for Formula F and after helping a friend learn
the lines, I set out to do my own best lap... ...only to discover that
the gasoline that seemed to be on my dipstick was just from the foam in
the fuel cell being moist. So I didn't turn any truly representative
times, but somewhat fortunately, no one else turned much of a lap and I ended up second on the grid.
In Formula Libre, after pulling the restrictor, my best time was
1:14.722; good enough that I was in front of two FCs that still had a 15-20hp advantage on me and wings as well. But after looking at my
tires, I realized I had over-compensated for the ambient temperature and once up to race pace, the tires were too crowned.
For the first Formula F race of the day, I drop the tire pressures by
2psi (to 11psi front and 13psi rear), and my best race lap was 1:13.958; better than I'd run despite once again having a restrictor to limit the power to the level of the Kent. I won the race by more than 49 seconds, although if the new guy, Rob (running the stickier Hoosier Club Ford
tire to my American Racers), hadn't had to brake problems, I think he
and I would have had a terrific battle for the win.
In the first Open Wheel 1 race on Sunday, I knew I was just out there to have a good time. In all honesty, 130hp and no wings for added downforce
was simply not going to match up to the 145-150hp and wings of the FCs;
to say nothing of the guy in his F1000 motorcycle-engined car (a car of
that class holds our outright lap record) turning laps in about 1:05.
But I still think I gave a good account of myself. At the end of the
race, there were still to FCs behind me, neither of whom managed to turn
a faster lap than my best.
Then it all came apart again.
While putting the restrictor back into the car for the second Open Wheel
2, Formula F race, I managed to drop a bolt down the front of the engine into the same area as the belt for the oil scavenge pump and alternator
and the search for it took me past the time I had to get the car to
pre-grid in time for the race. And with the race that really mattered to
me no longer a possibility, I simply decided that running the car with a bolt loose in the engine bay near exposed, vital components wasn't worth
the risk of going out for the final Formula Libre race in Open Wheel 1.
Rob, who'd had braking problems that put him out of contention in the
first race of the day, did make the second race after finding some
o-rings that would cure his brake caliper leak, and his best lap of that race was just a whisker faster than my best lap of the first race of the day; just 15 thousandths of a second faster. But he was on the Hoosier
Club Ford tire and the consensus seems to be that they are about a 1.5-2 second advantage around our track.
So a foreshortened weekend...
...purely my own fault...
...but still a lot of fun.
Others were far less lucky.
Erle's weekend ended during qualifying for race 1 on Saturday, when—out
of the blue, his car snapped viciously to the left while braking for
turn 1, and he hit the wall hard. No damage to him, but his Tiga is
going to need a LOT of repair; both front suspensions, the front mounted radiator, parts of the rear end, bodywork. It was a bit of a mess. But
the construction of the car did its job and he walked away with nothing
but sore thumbs from being unable to get his hands away from the
steering wheel quickly enough.
One of our newly graduated novices, Courtenay, never got to race a
single session on Sunday, as the car she is sharing with its owner
suffered an engine problem while he, Don, was running the car on
Saturday to complete his novice program.
My good friend Pierre, whom I beat in qualifying despite him being in FC
to my FF (unrestricted) but still...
...he lost the car coming out of turn 9 and ended up going backwards
into the inside wall at about 85mph. Once again, the damage to the car wasn't good, but the driver was completely fine.
The new drivers in FF bode well for the coming year, and once we all
come to a consensus about what tires to run, I think we're going to get
some good racing for everyone.
:-)
have a good time. In all honesty, 130hp and no wings for added downforce
was simply not going to match up to the 145-150hp and wings of the FCs;
to say nothing of the guy in his F1000 motorcycle-engined car (a car of
that class holds our outright lap record) turning laps in about 1:05.
But I still think I gave a good account of myself. At the end of the
race, there were still to (sic) FCs behind me, neither of whom managed to turn
a faster lap than my best."
On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 7:34:52 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
Well, there were definitely lows and highs this past weekend.
I started off on a low, when I got all the way out to Abbotsford to
hook up to my tow vehicle... ...and realized that I'd forgotten to
transfer my garage and trailer keys to my tow vehicle when I moved
over my racing gear.
Then I went to the track and I was buoyed back up by the fact that
my friend, Keith (from whom I rent the garage for the car) had his
keys to the garage and the spare key for my trailer hitch lock was
hanging up inside.
So back to Abbotsford with very little time to spare to hook up
the trailer and make registration... ...which became an
impossibility when I accidentally dropped the nose of the trailer
off the ball. The time it would take to get it back onto the ball
would have meant arriving after registration had close for
Saturday.
But there was still Sunday, and since I'd registered in two classes
in two separate groups (as a Formula F in Open Wheel 2 and as a
Formula Libre running without the restrictor in Open Wheel 1), I
was still going to get a decent amount of track time.
From there, the weekend unfolded... ...decently.
I went out for qualifying for Formula F and after helping a friend
learn the lines, I set out to do my own best lap... ...only to
discover that the gasoline that seemed to be on my dipstick was
just from the foam in the fuel cell being moist. So I didn't turn
any truly representative times, but somewhat fortunately, no one
else turned much of a lap and I ended up second on the grid.
In Formula Libre, after pulling the restrictor, my best time was
1:14.722; good enough that I was in front of two FCs that still had
a 15-20hp advantage on me and wings as well. But after looking at
my tires, I realized I had over-compensated for the ambient
temperature and once up to race pace, the tires were too crowned.
For the first Formula F race of the day, I drop the tire pressures
by 2psi (to 11psi front and 13psi rear), and my best race lap was
1:13.958; better than I'd run despite once again having a
restrictor to limit the power to the level of the Kent. I won the
race by more than 49 seconds, although if the new guy, Rob (running
the stickier Hoosier Club Ford tire to my American Racers), hadn't
had to brake problems, I think he and I would have had a terrific
battle for the win.
In the first Open Wheel 1 race on Sunday, I knew I was just out
there to have a good time. In all honesty, 130hp and no wings for
added downforce was simply not going to match up to the 145-150hp
and wings of the FCs; to say nothing of the guy in his F1000
motorcycle-engined car (a car of that class holds our outright lap
record) turning laps in about 1:05. But I still think I gave a good
account of myself. At the end of the race, there were still to FCs
behind me, neither of whom managed to turn a faster lap than my
best.
Then it all came apart again.
While putting the restrictor back into the car for the second Open
Wheel 2, Formula F race, I managed to drop a bolt down the front of
the engine into the same area as the belt for the oil scavenge pump
and alternator and the search for it took me past the time I had to
get the car to pre-grid in time for the race. And with the race
that really mattered to me no longer a possibility, I simply
decided that running the car with a bolt loose in the engine bay
near exposed, vital components wasn't worth the risk of going out
for the final Formula Libre race in Open Wheel 1.
Rob, who'd had braking problems that put him out of contention in
the first race of the day, did make the second race after finding
some o-rings that would cure his brake caliper leak, and his best
lap of that race was just a whisker faster than my best lap of the
first race of the day; just 15 thousandths of a second faster. But
he was on the Hoosier Club Ford tire and the consensus seems to be
that they are about a 1.5-2 second advantage around our track.
So a foreshortened weekend...
...purely my own fault...
...but still a lot of fun.
Others were far less lucky.
Erle's weekend ended during qualifying for race 1 on Saturday,
when—out of the blue, his car snapped viciously to the left while
braking for turn 1, and he hit the wall hard. No damage to him, but
his Tiga is going to need a LOT of repair; both front suspensions,
the front mounted radiator, parts of the rear end, bodywork. It was
a bit of a mess. But the construction of the car did its job and he
walked away with nothing but sore thumbs from being unable to get
his hands away from the steering wheel quickly enough.
One of our newly graduated novices, Courtenay, never got to race a
single session on Sunday, as the car she is sharing with its owner
suffered an engine problem while he, Don, was running the car on
Saturday to complete his novice program.
My good friend Pierre, whom I beat in qualifying despite him being
in FC to my FF (unrestricted) but still...
...he lost the car coming out of turn 9 and ended up going
backwards into the inside wall at about 85mph. Once again, the
damage to the car wasn't good, but the driver was completely fine.
The new drivers in FF bode well for the coming year, and once we
all come to a consensus about what tires to run, I think we're
going to get some good racing for everyone.
:-)
As usual, Alan omits some critical details. Let's explore this
claim:
">In the first Open Wheel 1 race on Sunday, I knew I was just out
there to
have a good time. In all honesty, 130hp and no wings for added
downforce was simply not going to match up to the 145-150hp and
wings of the FCs; to say nothing of the guy in his F1000
motorcycle-engined car (a car of that class holds our outright lap
record) turning laps in about 1:05. But I still think I gave a good
account of myself. At the end of the race, there were still to
(sic) FCs behind me, neither of whom managed to turn a faster lap
than my best."
Sunday 28 August, OW 1, Race 2, FL results. See: https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/6764769#byClass
6 FL cars were entered. One (#71) was 6 laps behind at the finish,
another (#15) was a DNS. That leaves 4. Of the 5 that ran the race
Alan finished 4th. So finishing ahead of 2 FL cards, one of which did
not even start and the other obviously having issues is not quite
what Alan stated. The car #71) that was 6 laps behind had a best lap
of 1:11.115. Alan's best? 1:13.743. Alan's best time was the slowest
of all 5 cars that were in the race. What you would expect given the
HP difference.
Really, you did not expect anyone to check the results?
Alan, I welcome your reply.
Sunday 28 August OW 2, Race 2 FF results. See: https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/6764771#byClass
Indeed, just as Alan described. He won handily against FF cars that
he has regularly beaten in the past. As he stated, a Kent powered FF
car could not compete due to engine problems. Hmmmm. Hard to be
competitive with unreliable engines, eh?
On 2022-08-30 09:20, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 7:34:52 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
Well, there were definitely lows and highs this past weekend.
I started off on a low, when I got all the way out to Abbotsford to
hook up to my tow vehicle... ...and realized that I'd forgotten to
transfer my garage and trailer keys to my tow vehicle when I moved
over my racing gear.
Then I went to the track and I was buoyed back up by the fact that
my friend, Keith (from whom I rent the garage for the car) had his
keys to the garage and the spare key for my trailer hitch lock was
hanging up inside.
So back to Abbotsford with very little time to spare to hook up
the trailer and make registration... ...which became an
impossibility when I accidentally dropped the nose of the trailer
off the ball. The time it would take to get it back onto the ball
would have meant arriving after registration had close for
Saturday.
But there was still Sunday, and since I'd registered in two classes
in two separate groups (as a Formula F in Open Wheel 2 and as a
Formula Libre running without the restrictor in Open Wheel 1), I
was still going to get a decent amount of track time.
From there, the weekend unfolded... ...decently.
I went out for qualifying for Formula F and after helping a friend
learn the lines, I set out to do my own best lap... ...only to
discover that the gasoline that seemed to be on my dipstick was
just from the foam in the fuel cell being moist. So I didn't turn
any truly representative times, but somewhat fortunately, no one
else turned much of a lap and I ended up second on the grid.
In Formula Libre, after pulling the restrictor, my best time was
1:14.722; good enough that I was in front of two FCs that still had
a 15-20hp advantage on me and wings as well. But after looking at
my tires, I realized I had over-compensated for the ambient
temperature and once up to race pace, the tires were too crowned.
For the first Formula F race of the day, I drop the tire pressures
by 2psi (to 11psi front and 13psi rear), and my best race lap was
1:13.958; better than I'd run despite once again having a
restrictor to limit the power to the level of the Kent. I won the
race by more than 49 seconds, although if the new guy, Rob (running
the stickier Hoosier Club Ford tire to my American Racers), hadn't
had to brake problems, I think he and I would have had a terrific
battle for the win.
In the first Open Wheel 1 race on Sunday, I knew I was just out
there to have a good time. In all honesty, 130hp and no wings for
added downforce was simply not going to match up to the 145-150hp
and wings of the FCs; to say nothing of the guy in his F1000
motorcycle-engined car (a car of that class holds our outright lap
record) turning laps in about 1:05. But I still think I gave a good
account of myself. At the end of the race, there were still to FCs
behind me, neither of whom managed to turn a faster lap than my
best.
Then it all came apart again.
While putting the restrictor back into the car for the second Open
Wheel 2, Formula F race, I managed to drop a bolt down the front of
the engine into the same area as the belt for the oil scavenge pump
and alternator and the search for it took me past the time I had to
get the car to pre-grid in time for the race. And with the race
that really mattered to me no longer a possibility, I simply
decided that running the car with a bolt loose in the engine bay
near exposed, vital components wasn't worth the risk of going out
for the final Formula Libre race in Open Wheel 1.
Rob, who'd had braking problems that put him out of contention in
the first race of the day, did make the second race after finding
some o-rings that would cure his brake caliper leak, and his best
lap of that race was just a whisker faster than my best lap of the
first race of the day; just 15 thousandths of a second faster. But
he was on the Hoosier Club Ford tire and the consensus seems to be
that they are about a 1.5-2 second advantage around our track.
So a foreshortened weekend...
...purely my own fault...
...but still a lot of fun.
Others were far less lucky.
Erle's weekend ended during qualifying for race 1 on Saturday,
when—out of the blue, his car snapped viciously to the left while
braking for turn 1, and he hit the wall hard. No damage to him, but
his Tiga is going to need a LOT of repair; both front suspensions,
the front mounted radiator, parts of the rear end, bodywork. It was
a bit of a mess. But the construction of the car did its job and he
walked away with nothing but sore thumbs from being unable to get
his hands away from the steering wheel quickly enough.
One of our newly graduated novices, Courtenay, never got to race a
single session on Sunday, as the car she is sharing with its owner
suffered an engine problem while he, Don, was running the car on
Saturday to complete his novice program.
My good friend Pierre, whom I beat in qualifying despite him being
in FC to my FF (unrestricted) but still...
...he lost the car coming out of turn 9 and ended up going
backwards into the inside wall at about 85mph. Once again, the
damage to the car wasn't good, but the driver was completely fine.
The new drivers in FF bode well for the coming year, and once we
all come to a consensus about what tires to run, I think we're
going to get some good racing for everyone.
:-)
As usual, Alan omits some critical details. Let's explore this
claim:
">In the first Open Wheel 1 race on Sunday, I knew I was just out
there to
have a good time. In all honesty, 130hp and no wings for added
downforce was simply not going to match up to the 145-150hp and
wings of the FCs; to say nothing of the guy in his F1000
motorcycle-engined car (a car of that class holds our outright lap
record) turning laps in about 1:05. But I still think I gave a good
account of myself. At the end of the race, there were still to
(sic) FCs behind me, neither of whom managed to turn a faster lap
than my best."
Sunday 28 August, OW 1, Race 2, FL results. See: https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/6764769#byClass
6 FL cars were entered. One (#71) was 6 laps behind at the finish,
another (#15) was a DNS. That leaves 4. Of the 5 that ran the race
Alan finished 4th. So finishing ahead of 2 FL cards, one of which did
not even start and the other obviously having issues is not quite
what Alan stated. The car #71) that was 6 laps behind had a best lap
of 1:11.115. Alan's best? 1:13.743. Alan's best time was the slowest
of all 5 cars that were in the race. What you would expect given the
HP difference.
Liarboy:
ALL the cars in Open Wheel 1 had at least a 15 horsepower advantage.
All the cars out there except me had wings for down force as well.
Formula Libre isn't really a class at all. It's just a catch-all, so
that people with oddball cars have some cubbyhole into which they can be put.
So what did I leave out, exactly?
"In the first Open Wheel 1 race on Sunday, I knew I was just out there
to have a good time. In all honesty, 130hp and no wings for added
downforce was simply not going to match up to the 145-150hp and wings of
the FCs; to say nothing of the guy in his F1000 motorcycle-engined car
(a car of that class holds our outright lap record) turning laps in
about 1:05."
I didn't specifically call out the Ligier F4 cars, but they have wings
and a Honda K20 C2 engine which makes 158hp.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_K_engine#K20C>
I said I was out there for fun and knew that on paper I shouldn't have finished ahead of any of the cars in that group.
Really, you did not expect anyone to check the results?And determine... ...what: that I still managed to beat two guys in
Formula Continentals with at least 15 more horsepower than I had and downforce to exit the corners (particularly turn 9) faster?
Indeed, let's look at the results; the OVERALL results:
<https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/6764769#all-results>
What's funny is that you don't see the forest for the trees.
What I found instructive was the change in lap times between adding more power and finding more grip.
Setting aside Open Wheel 2 Sunday qualifying ("OW 2 Race 2 Qualify" on Speedhive), because I had basically only finished my warmup laps before heading back in due to low fuel (note to self: the dip stick just being moist is insufficient evidence of sufficient fuel):
I went out for Open Wheel 1 Sunday qualifying ("OW1 Race 2 Qualify")
with something like 15 more horsepower than usual and my best lap was 1:14.722. So I dropped the tire pressure by about 2psi front and rear.
Then in "OW2 Race 2 Race" my best lap was 1:13.958. Lower horsepower by about 15, but faster corner exits made me nearly 1 second a lap faster.
Then in "OW1 Race 2 Race" my best lap was 1:13.743. So assuming I'm
driving with roughly the same ability as an hour previously, and with
track conditions essentially identical, 15 horsepower was good for only about 2 tenths of a second.
So now think about how little any small horsepower difference between
Kents and Hondas running with restrictors should make.
Alan, I welcome your reply.
Sunday 28 August OW 2, Race 2 FF results. See: https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/6764771#byClass
Indeed, just as Alan described. He won handily against FF cars thatBut if you are out there, you can be competitive. As Rob Fraser's performance indicated.
he has regularly beaten in the past. As he stated, a Kent powered FF
car could not compete due to engine problems. Hmmmm. Hard to be competitive with unreliable engines, eh?
And despite having tires that in theory are 1-2 seconds slower, than my American Racers, my best lap was only 15 thousands of a second slower
than Rob's best lap.
On Tuesday, August 30, 2022 at 12:58:21 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
On 2022-08-30 09:20, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 7:34:52 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:Liarboy:
Well, there were definitely lows and highs this past weekend.
I started off on a low, when I got all the way out to
Abbotsford to hook up to my tow vehicle... ...and realized that
I'd forgotten to transfer my garage and trailer keys to my tow
vehicle when I moved over my racing gear.
Then I went to the track and I was buoyed back up by the fact
that my friend, Keith (from whom I rent the garage for the car)
had his keys to the garage and the spare key for my trailer
hitch lock was hanging up inside.
So back to Abbotsford with very little time to spare to hook
up the trailer and make registration... ...which became an
impossibility when I accidentally dropped the nose of the
trailer off the ball. The time it would take to get it back
onto the ball would have meant arriving after registration had
close for Saturday.
But there was still Sunday, and since I'd registered in two
classes in two separate groups (as a Formula F in Open Wheel 2
and as a Formula Libre running without the restrictor in Open
Wheel 1), I was still going to get a decent amount of track
time.
From there, the weekend unfolded... ...decently.
I went out for qualifying for Formula F and after helping a
friend learn the lines, I set out to do my own best lap...
...only to discover that the gasoline that seemed to be on my
dipstick was just from the foam in the fuel cell being moist.
So I didn't turn any truly representative times, but somewhat
fortunately, no one else turned much of a lap and I ended up
second on the grid.
In Formula Libre, after pulling the restrictor, my best time
was 1:14.722; good enough that I was in front of two FCs that
still had a 15-20hp advantage on me and wings as well. But
after looking at my tires, I realized I had over-compensated
for the ambient temperature and once up to race pace, the tires
were too crowned.
For the first Formula F race of the day, I drop the tire
pressures by 2psi (to 11psi front and 13psi rear), and my best
race lap was 1:13.958; better than I'd run despite once again
having a restrictor to limit the power to the level of the
Kent. I won the race by more than 49 seconds, although if the
new guy, Rob (running the stickier Hoosier Club Ford tire to my
American Racers), hadn't had to brake problems, I think he and
I would have had a terrific battle for the win.
In the first Open Wheel 1 race on Sunday, I knew I was just
out there to have a good time. In all honesty, 130hp and no
wings for added downforce was simply not going to match up to
the 145-150hp and wings of the FCs; to say nothing of the guy
in his F1000 motorcycle-engined car (a car of that class holds
our outright lap record) turning laps in about 1:05. But I
still think I gave a good account of myself. At the end of the
race, there were still to FCs behind me, neither of whom
managed to turn a faster lap than my best.
Then it all came apart again.
While putting the restrictor back into the car for the second
Open Wheel 2, Formula F race, I managed to drop a bolt down the
front of the engine into the same area as the belt for the oil
scavenge pump and alternator and the search for it took me past
the time I had to get the car to pre-grid in time for the race.
And with the race that really mattered to me no longer a
possibility, I simply decided that running the car with a bolt
loose in the engine bay near exposed, vital components wasn't
worth the risk of going out for the final Formula Libre race in
Open Wheel 1.
Rob, who'd had braking problems that put him out of contention
in the first race of the day, did make the second race after
finding some o-rings that would cure his brake caliper leak,
and his best lap of that race was just a whisker faster than my
best lap of the first race of the day; just 15 thousandths of a
second faster. But he was on the Hoosier Club Ford tire and the
consensus seems to be that they are about a 1.5-2 second
advantage around our track.
So a foreshortened weekend...
...purely my own fault...
...but still a lot of fun.
Others were far less lucky.
Erle's weekend ended during qualifying for race 1 on Saturday,
when—out of the blue, his car snapped viciously to the left
while braking for turn 1, and he hit the wall hard. No damage
to him, but his Tiga is going to need a LOT of repair; both
front suspensions, the front mounted radiator, parts of the
rear end, bodywork. It was a bit of a mess. But the
construction of the car did its job and he walked away with
nothing but sore thumbs from being unable to get his hands away
from the steering wheel quickly enough.
One of our newly graduated novices, Courtenay, never got to
race a single session on Sunday, as the car she is sharing with
its owner suffered an engine problem while he, Don, was running
the car on Saturday to complete his novice program.
My good friend Pierre, whom I beat in qualifying despite him
being in FC to my FF (unrestricted) but still...
...he lost the car coming out of turn 9 and ended up going
backwards into the inside wall at about 85mph. Once again, the
damage to the car wasn't good, but the driver was completely
fine.
The new drivers in FF bode well for the coming year, and once
we all come to a consensus about what tires to run, I think
we're going to get some good racing for everyone.
:-)
As usual, Alan omits some critical details. Let's explore this
claim:
">In the first Open Wheel 1 race on Sunday, I knew I was just
out there to
have a good time. In all honesty, 130hp and no wings for added
downforce was simply not going to match up to the 145-150hp
and wings of the FCs; to say nothing of the guy in his F1000
motorcycle-engined car (a car of that class holds our outright
lap record) turning laps in about 1:05. But I still think I
gave a good account of myself. At the end of the race, there
were still to (sic) FCs behind me, neither of whom managed to
turn a faster lap than my best."
Sunday 28 August, OW 1, Race 2, FL results. See:
https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/6764769#byClass
6 FL cars were entered. One (#71) was 6 laps behind at the
finish, another (#15) was a DNS. That leaves 4. Of the 5 that ran
the race Alan finished 4th. So finishing ahead of 2 FL cards, one
of which did not even start and the other obviously having issues
is not quite what Alan stated. The car #71) that was 6 laps
behind had a best lap of 1:11.115. Alan's best? 1:13.743. Alan's
best time was the slowest of all 5 cars that were in the race.
What you would expect given the HP difference.
ALL the cars in Open Wheel 1 had at least a 15 horsepower
advantage.
All the cars out there except me had wings for down force as well.
Formula Libre isn't really a class at all. It's just a catch-all,
so that people with oddball cars have some cubbyhole into which
they can be put.
So what did I leave out, exactly? "In the first Open Wheel 1 race
on Sunday, I knew I was just out there to have a good time. In all
honesty, 130hp and no wings for added downforce was simply not
going to match up to the 145-150hp and wings of the FCs; to say
nothing of the guy in his F1000 motorcycle-engined car (a car of
that class holds our outright lap record) turning laps in about
1:05." I didn't specifically call out the Ligier F4 cars, but they
have wings and a Honda K20 C2 engine which makes 158hp.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_K_engine#K20C>
I said I was out there for fun and knew that on paper I shouldn't
have finished ahead of any of the cars in that group.
Really, you did not expect anyone to check the results?And determine... ...what: that I still managed to beat two guys in
Formula Continentals with at least 15 more horsepower than I had
and downforce to exit the corners (particularly turn 9) faster?
Indeed, let's look at the results; the OVERALL results:
<https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/6764769#all-results>
What's funny is that you don't see the forest for the trees.
What I found instructive was the change in lap times between adding
more power and finding more grip.
Setting aside Open Wheel 2 Sunday qualifying ("OW 2 Race 2 Qualify"
on Speedhive), because I had basically only finished my warmup laps
before heading back in due to low fuel (note to self: the dip stick
just being moist is insufficient evidence of sufficient fuel):
I went out for Open Wheel 1 Sunday qualifying ("OW1 Race 2
Qualify") with something like 15 more horsepower than usual and my
best lap was 1:14.722. So I dropped the tire pressure by about 2psi
front and rear.
Then in "OW2 Race 2 Race" my best lap was 1:13.958. Lower
horsepower by about 15, but faster corner exits made me nearly 1
second a lap faster.
Then in "OW1 Race 2 Race" my best lap was 1:13.743. So assuming
I'm driving with roughly the same ability as an hour previously,
and with track conditions essentially identical, 15 horsepower was
good for only about 2 tenths of a second.
So now think about how little any small horsepower difference
between Kents and Hondas running with restrictors should make.
Alan, I welcome your reply.But if you are out there, you can be competitive. As Rob Fraser's
Sunday 28 August OW 2, Race 2 FF results. See:
https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/6764771#byClass
Indeed, just as Alan described. He won handily against FF cars
that he has regularly beaten in the past. As he stated, a Kent
powered FF car could not compete due to engine problems. Hmmmm.
Hard to be competitive with unreliable engines, eh?
performance indicated.
And despite having tires that in theory are 1-2 seconds slower,
than my American Racers, my best lap was only 15 thousands of a
second slower than Rob's best lap.
All total BS. You finished last in your FL class.
15 HP? Do you know
that wings add drag?
Fraser had a good time in the last race, but
was much slower in the second.
Proves nothing. Too many other
variables at work. What counts is a season's data, not a lap or two.
So let's look closely at Phinney and Redpath records. In the season
2022 FC standings Phinney is dead last among drivers with enough
races to be scored for the championship. He has 34 points compared to
the leader's 134. His name does not appear anywhere in the 2018-2021
season standings. Redpath is nowhere to be found among all OW drivers
in the 2018-2022 standings - a newcomer??? So you a bragging about
beating a chronically slow driver, likely a SBBC rookie, and someone
who has no record at the track. Get serious.
On 2022-08-30 11:41, Thomas E. wrote:
On Tuesday, August 30, 2022 at 12:58:21 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
On 2022-08-30 09:20, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 7:34:52 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:Liarboy:
Well, there were definitely lows and highs this past weekend.
I started off on a low, when I got all the way out to
Abbotsford to hook up to my tow vehicle... ...and realized that
I'd forgotten to transfer my garage and trailer keys to my tow
vehicle when I moved over my racing gear.
Then I went to the track and I was buoyed back up by the fact
that my friend, Keith (from whom I rent the garage for the car)
had his keys to the garage and the spare key for my trailer
hitch lock was hanging up inside.
So back to Abbotsford with very little time to spare to hook
up the trailer and make registration... ...which became an
impossibility when I accidentally dropped the nose of the
trailer off the ball. The time it would take to get it back
onto the ball would have meant arriving after registration had
close for Saturday.
But there was still Sunday, and since I'd registered in two
classes in two separate groups (as a Formula F in Open Wheel 2
and as a Formula Libre running without the restrictor in Open
Wheel 1), I was still going to get a decent amount of track
time.
From there, the weekend unfolded... ...decently.
I went out for qualifying for Formula F and after helping a
friend learn the lines, I set out to do my own best lap...
...only to discover that the gasoline that seemed to be on my
dipstick was just from the foam in the fuel cell being moist.
So I didn't turn any truly representative times, but somewhat
fortunately, no one else turned much of a lap and I ended up
second on the grid.
In Formula Libre, after pulling the restrictor, my best time
was 1:14.722; good enough that I was in front of two FCs that
still had a 15-20hp advantage on me and wings as well. But
after looking at my tires, I realized I had over-compensated
for the ambient temperature and once up to race pace, the tires
were too crowned.
For the first Formula F race of the day, I drop the tire
pressures by 2psi (to 11psi front and 13psi rear), and my best
race lap was 1:13.958; better than I'd run despite once again
having a restrictor to limit the power to the level of the
Kent. I won the race by more than 49 seconds, although if the
new guy, Rob (running the stickier Hoosier Club Ford tire to my
American Racers), hadn't had to brake problems, I think he and
I would have had a terrific battle for the win.
In the first Open Wheel 1 race on Sunday, I knew I was just
out there to have a good time. In all honesty, 130hp and no
wings for added downforce was simply not going to match up to
the 145-150hp and wings of the FCs; to say nothing of the guy
in his F1000 motorcycle-engined car (a car of that class holds
our outright lap record) turning laps in about 1:05. But I
still think I gave a good account of myself. At the end of the
race, there were still to FCs behind me, neither of whom
managed to turn a faster lap than my best.
Then it all came apart again.
While putting the restrictor back into the car for the second
Open Wheel 2, Formula F race, I managed to drop a bolt down the
front of the engine into the same area as the belt for the oil
scavenge pump and alternator and the search for it took me past
the time I had to get the car to pre-grid in time for the race.
And with the race that really mattered to me no longer a
possibility, I simply decided that running the car with a bolt
loose in the engine bay near exposed, vital components wasn't
worth the risk of going out for the final Formula Libre race in
Open Wheel 1.
Rob, who'd had braking problems that put him out of contention
in the first race of the day, did make the second race after
finding some o-rings that would cure his brake caliper leak,
and his best lap of that race was just a whisker faster than my
best lap of the first race of the day; just 15 thousandths of a
second faster. But he was on the Hoosier Club Ford tire and the
consensus seems to be that they are about a 1.5-2 second
advantage around our track.
So a foreshortened weekend...
...purely my own fault...
...but still a lot of fun.
Others were far less lucky.
Erle's weekend ended during qualifying for race 1 on Saturday,
when—out of the blue, his car snapped viciously to the left
while braking for turn 1, and he hit the wall hard. No damage
to him, but his Tiga is going to need a LOT of repair; both
front suspensions, the front mounted radiator, parts of the
rear end, bodywork. It was a bit of a mess. But the
construction of the car did its job and he walked away with
nothing but sore thumbs from being unable to get his hands away
from the steering wheel quickly enough.
One of our newly graduated novices, Courtenay, never got to
race a single session on Sunday, as the car she is sharing with
its owner suffered an engine problem while he, Don, was running
the car on Saturday to complete his novice program.
My good friend Pierre, whom I beat in qualifying despite him
being in FC to my FF (unrestricted) but still...
...he lost the car coming out of turn 9 and ended up going
backwards into the inside wall at about 85mph. Once again, the
damage to the car wasn't good, but the driver was completely
fine.
The new drivers in FF bode well for the coming year, and once
we all come to a consensus about what tires to run, I think
we're going to get some good racing for everyone.
:-)
As usual, Alan omits some critical details. Let's explore this
claim:
">In the first Open Wheel 1 race on Sunday, I knew I was just
out there to
have a good time. In all honesty, 130hp and no wings for added
downforce was simply not going to match up to the 145-150hp
and wings of the FCs; to say nothing of the guy in his F1000
motorcycle-engined car (a car of that class holds our outright
lap record) turning laps in about 1:05. But I still think I
gave a good account of myself. At the end of the race, there
were still to (sic) FCs behind me, neither of whom managed to
turn a faster lap than my best."
Sunday 28 August, OW 1, Race 2, FL results. See:
https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/6764769#byClass
6 FL cars were entered. One (#71) was 6 laps behind at the
finish, another (#15) was a DNS. That leaves 4. Of the 5 that ran
the race Alan finished 4th. So finishing ahead of 2 FL cards, one
of which did not even start and the other obviously having issues
is not quite what Alan stated. The car #71) that was 6 laps
behind had a best lap of 1:11.115. Alan's best? 1:13.743. Alan's
best time was the slowest of all 5 cars that were in the race.
What you would expect given the HP difference.
ALL the cars in Open Wheel 1 had at least a 15 horsepower
advantage.
All the cars out there except me had wings for down force as well.
Formula Libre isn't really a class at all. It's just a catch-all,
so that people with oddball cars have some cubbyhole into which
they can be put.
So what did I leave out, exactly? "In the first Open Wheel 1 race
on Sunday, I knew I was just out there to have a good time. In all
honesty, 130hp and no wings for added downforce was simply not
going to match up to the 145-150hp and wings of the FCs; to say
nothing of the guy in his F1000 motorcycle-engined car (a car of
that class holds our outright lap record) turning laps in about
1:05." I didn't specifically call out the Ligier F4 cars, but they
have wings and a Honda K20 C2 engine which makes 158hp.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_K_engine#K20C>
I said I was out there for fun and knew that on paper I shouldn't
have finished ahead of any of the cars in that group.
Really, you did not expect anyone to check the results?And determine... ...what: that I still managed to beat two guys in
Formula Continentals with at least 15 more horsepower than I had
and downforce to exit the corners (particularly turn 9) faster?
Indeed, let's look at the results; the OVERALL results:
<https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/6764769#all-results>
What's funny is that you don't see the forest for the trees.
What I found instructive was the change in lap times between adding
more power and finding more grip.
Setting aside Open Wheel 2 Sunday qualifying ("OW 2 Race 2 Qualify"
on Speedhive), because I had basically only finished my warmup laps
before heading back in due to low fuel (note to self: the dip stick
just being moist is insufficient evidence of sufficient fuel):
I went out for Open Wheel 1 Sunday qualifying ("OW1 Race 2
Qualify") with something like 15 more horsepower than usual and my
best lap was 1:14.722. So I dropped the tire pressure by about 2psi
front and rear.
Then in "OW2 Race 2 Race" my best lap was 1:13.958. Lower
horsepower by about 15, but faster corner exits made me nearly 1
second a lap faster.
Then in "OW1 Race 2 Race" my best lap was 1:13.743. So assuming
I'm driving with roughly the same ability as an hour previously,
and with track conditions essentially identical, 15 horsepower was
good for only about 2 tenths of a second.
So now think about how little any small horsepower difference
between Kents and Hondas running with restrictors should make.
Alan, I welcome your reply.But if you are out there, you can be competitive. As Rob Fraser's
Sunday 28 August OW 2, Race 2 FF results. See:
https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/6764771#byClass
Indeed, just as Alan described. He won handily against FF cars
that he has regularly beaten in the past. As he stated, a Kent
powered FF car could not compete due to engine problems. Hmmmm.
Hard to be competitive with unreliable engines, eh?
performance indicated.
And despite having tires that in theory are 1-2 seconds slower,
than my American Racers, my best lap was only 15 thousands of a
second slower than Rob's best lap.
All total BS. You finished last in your FL class.As I said: not really a class. And my references to being 15 thousandths slower had nothing to do with FL.
The cars in Formula Libre were (in finishing order):
A Formula Continental, but one running the wrong tires for our rules, so registered in Formula Libre. 150+ horsepower Zetec engine and a best lap time of 1:08.026
Another Zetec-engined FC with a best lap time of 1:10.991
A Formula 4 Ligier with a 2 litre Honda K20 C2 engine making 158hp, and frankly capable of much better than the 1:12.518 lap time that was his best.
Then me in a Formula F with no wings and only about 130-131hp (as
attested to by the engine builder responsible for putting the Fit engine into Formula F).
Then another F4 Ligier that had some kind of mechanical problem.
15 HP? Do you knowYes. And as I just explained to you, the extra exit speed in the corners from downforce more than makes up for it. I guess that's why you've carefully ignored the whole analysis I gave you of the relative benefits
that wings add drag?
of corner exit speed vs power.
If all it took was lower drag to go faster, then why hasn't any FC at mission shown up with the absolutely minimal wings that FCs ran when
they last raced at Daytona for the runoffs? Wings like this:
One of the FCs who finished behind me (Rob Phinney) came up to me after
to marvel at my ability to pull away from him down the straight, and he
came to a very similar wrong conclusion to yours.
He told me how I must have had more power than he did, but I can
guarantee you that the real reason was that I was exiting turn 9
something like 5mph faster than he was. In his case, it wasn't lack of
the car's ability that led to it, but rather his lack of experience.
It's only the ignorant such as yourself who think it's about power and
drag when except in extreme circumstances, it is always about corner
exit speed.
Fraser had a good time in the last race, butBecause he had a brake issue that resulted in him not being able to
was much slower in the second.
trust that the car would slow down sufficiently every time.
In the last race, he found a couple of o-rings of the correct size to
stop the caliper from leaking, leading to a firm pedal he could trust
(and not one that would move so far down that it would get interference
from the steering shaft). But his driving in each race was with
essentially the same skill.
Proves nothing. Too many otherWow. There is so much you get wrong it's hilarious.
variables at work. What counts is a season's data, not a lap or two.
Looking at best lap vs best lap cuts out any questions about car reliability.
On his best lap, in pretty much identical conditions of air and track temperature and grip, on tires 1-2 seconds faster than mine, he and I
were essentially level.
So let's look closely at Phinney and Redpath records. In the seasonI wasn't bragging about beating anyone at all.
2022 FC standings Phinney is dead last among drivers with enough
races to be scored for the championship. He has 34 points compared to
the leader's 134. His name does not appear anywhere in the 2018-2021 season standings. Redpath is nowhere to be found among all OW drivers
in the 2018-2022 standings - a newcomer??? So you a bragging about
beating a chronically slow driver, likely a SBBC rookie, and someone
who has no record at the track. Get serious.
What I was pointing out was that it is clear that driver skill and experience is the differentiator.
The fact is that each of them was in a car that should easily have been faster than my FF. I didn't beat them with my 15hp bump and no drag from wings.
On Tuesday, August 30, 2022 at 3:50:33 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
On 2022-08-30 11:41, Thomas E. wrote:
On Tuesday, August 30, 2022 at 12:58:21 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:As I said: not really a class. And my references to being 15 thousandths
On 2022-08-30 09:20, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 7:34:52 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:Liarboy:
Well, there were definitely lows and highs this past weekend.
I started off on a low, when I got all the way out to
Abbotsford to hook up to my tow vehicle... ...and realized that
I'd forgotten to transfer my garage and trailer keys to my tow
vehicle when I moved over my racing gear.
Then I went to the track and I was buoyed back up by the fact
that my friend, Keith (from whom I rent the garage for the car)
had his keys to the garage and the spare key for my trailer
hitch lock was hanging up inside.
So back to Abbotsford with very little time to spare to hook
up the trailer and make registration... ...which became an
impossibility when I accidentally dropped the nose of the
trailer off the ball. The time it would take to get it back
onto the ball would have meant arriving after registration had
close for Saturday.
But there was still Sunday, and since I'd registered in two
classes in two separate groups (as a Formula F in Open Wheel 2
and as a Formula Libre running without the restrictor in Open
Wheel 1), I was still going to get a decent amount of track
time.
From there, the weekend unfolded... ...decently.
I went out for qualifying for Formula F and after helping a
friend learn the lines, I set out to do my own best lap...
...only to discover that the gasoline that seemed to be on my
dipstick was just from the foam in the fuel cell being moist.
So I didn't turn any truly representative times, but somewhat
fortunately, no one else turned much of a lap and I ended up
second on the grid.
In Formula Libre, after pulling the restrictor, my best time
was 1:14.722; good enough that I was in front of two FCs that
still had a 15-20hp advantage on me and wings as well. But
after looking at my tires, I realized I had over-compensated
for the ambient temperature and once up to race pace, the tires
were too crowned.
For the first Formula F race of the day, I drop the tire
pressures by 2psi (to 11psi front and 13psi rear), and my best
race lap was 1:13.958; better than I'd run despite once again
having a restrictor to limit the power to the level of the
Kent. I won the race by more than 49 seconds, although if the
new guy, Rob (running the stickier Hoosier Club Ford tire to my
American Racers), hadn't had to brake problems, I think he and
I would have had a terrific battle for the win.
In the first Open Wheel 1 race on Sunday, I knew I was just
out there to have a good time. In all honesty, 130hp and no
wings for added downforce was simply not going to match up to
the 145-150hp and wings of the FCs; to say nothing of the guy
in his F1000 motorcycle-engined car (a car of that class holds
our outright lap record) turning laps in about 1:05. But I
still think I gave a good account of myself. At the end of the
race, there were still to FCs behind me, neither of whom
managed to turn a faster lap than my best.
Then it all came apart again.
While putting the restrictor back into the car for the second
Open Wheel 2, Formula F race, I managed to drop a bolt down the
front of the engine into the same area as the belt for the oil
scavenge pump and alternator and the search for it took me past
the time I had to get the car to pre-grid in time for the race.
And with the race that really mattered to me no longer a
possibility, I simply decided that running the car with a bolt
loose in the engine bay near exposed, vital components wasn't
worth the risk of going out for the final Formula Libre race in
Open Wheel 1.
Rob, who'd had braking problems that put him out of contention
in the first race of the day, did make the second race after
finding some o-rings that would cure his brake caliper leak,
and his best lap of that race was just a whisker faster than my
best lap of the first race of the day; just 15 thousandths of a
second faster. But he was on the Hoosier Club Ford tire and the
consensus seems to be that they are about a 1.5-2 second
advantage around our track.
So a foreshortened weekend...
...purely my own fault...
...but still a lot of fun.
Others were far less lucky.
Erle's weekend ended during qualifying for race 1 on Saturday,
when—out of the blue, his car snapped viciously to the left
while braking for turn 1, and he hit the wall hard. No damage
to him, but his Tiga is going to need a LOT of repair; both
front suspensions, the front mounted radiator, parts of the
rear end, bodywork. It was a bit of a mess. But the
construction of the car did its job and he walked away with
nothing but sore thumbs from being unable to get his hands away
from the steering wheel quickly enough.
One of our newly graduated novices, Courtenay, never got to
race a single session on Sunday, as the car she is sharing with
its owner suffered an engine problem while he, Don, was running
the car on Saturday to complete his novice program.
My good friend Pierre, whom I beat in qualifying despite him
being in FC to my FF (unrestricted) but still...
...he lost the car coming out of turn 9 and ended up going
backwards into the inside wall at about 85mph. Once again, the
damage to the car wasn't good, but the driver was completely
fine.
The new drivers in FF bode well for the coming year, and once
we all come to a consensus about what tires to run, I think
we're going to get some good racing for everyone.
:-)
As usual, Alan omits some critical details. Let's explore this
claim:
">In the first Open Wheel 1 race on Sunday, I knew I was just
out there to
have a good time. In all honesty, 130hp and no wings for added
downforce was simply not going to match up to the 145-150hp
and wings of the FCs; to say nothing of the guy in his F1000
motorcycle-engined car (a car of that class holds our outright
lap record) turning laps in about 1:05. But I still think I
gave a good account of myself. At the end of the race, there
were still to (sic) FCs behind me, neither of whom managed to
turn a faster lap than my best."
Sunday 28 August, OW 1, Race 2, FL results. See:
https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/6764769#byClass
6 FL cars were entered. One (#71) was 6 laps behind at the
finish, another (#15) was a DNS. That leaves 4. Of the 5 that ran
the race Alan finished 4th. So finishing ahead of 2 FL cards, one
of which did not even start and the other obviously having issues
is not quite what Alan stated. The car #71) that was 6 laps
behind had a best lap of 1:11.115. Alan's best? 1:13.743. Alan's
best time was the slowest of all 5 cars that were in the race.
What you would expect given the HP difference.
ALL the cars in Open Wheel 1 had at least a 15 horsepower
advantage.
All the cars out there except me had wings for down force as well.
Formula Libre isn't really a class at all. It's just a catch-all,
so that people with oddball cars have some cubbyhole into which
they can be put.
So what did I leave out, exactly? "In the first Open Wheel 1 race
on Sunday, I knew I was just out there to have a good time. In all
honesty, 130hp and no wings for added downforce was simply not
going to match up to the 145-150hp and wings of the FCs; to say
nothing of the guy in his F1000 motorcycle-engined car (a car of
that class holds our outright lap record) turning laps in about
1:05." I didn't specifically call out the Ligier F4 cars, but they
have wings and a Honda K20 C2 engine which makes 158hp.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_K_engine#K20C>
I said I was out there for fun and knew that on paper I shouldn't
have finished ahead of any of the cars in that group.
Really, you did not expect anyone to check the results?And determine... ...what: that I still managed to beat two guys in
Formula Continentals with at least 15 more horsepower than I had
and downforce to exit the corners (particularly turn 9) faster?
Indeed, let's look at the results; the OVERALL results:
<https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/6764769#all-results>
What's funny is that you don't see the forest for the trees.
What I found instructive was the change in lap times between adding
more power and finding more grip.
Setting aside Open Wheel 2 Sunday qualifying ("OW 2 Race 2 Qualify"
on Speedhive), because I had basically only finished my warmup laps
before heading back in due to low fuel (note to self: the dip stick
just being moist is insufficient evidence of sufficient fuel):
I went out for Open Wheel 1 Sunday qualifying ("OW1 Race 2
Qualify") with something like 15 more horsepower than usual and my
best lap was 1:14.722. So I dropped the tire pressure by about 2psi
front and rear.
Then in "OW2 Race 2 Race" my best lap was 1:13.958. Lower
horsepower by about 15, but faster corner exits made me nearly 1
second a lap faster.
Then in "OW1 Race 2 Race" my best lap was 1:13.743. So assuming
I'm driving with roughly the same ability as an hour previously,
and with track conditions essentially identical, 15 horsepower was
good for only about 2 tenths of a second.
So now think about how little any small horsepower difference
between Kents and Hondas running with restrictors should make.
Alan, I welcome your reply.But if you are out there, you can be competitive. As Rob Fraser's
Sunday 28 August OW 2, Race 2 FF results. See:
https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/6764771#byClass
Indeed, just as Alan described. He won handily against FF cars
that he has regularly beaten in the past. As he stated, a Kent
powered FF car could not compete due to engine problems. Hmmmm.
Hard to be competitive with unreliable engines, eh?
performance indicated.
And despite having tires that in theory are 1-2 seconds slower,
than my American Racers, my best lap was only 15 thousands of a
second slower than Rob's best lap.
All total BS. You finished last in your FL class.
slower had nothing to do with FL.
The cars in Formula Libre were (in finishing order):
A Formula Continental, but one running the wrong tires for our rules, so
registered in Formula Libre. 150+ horsepower Zetec engine and a best lap
time of 1:08.026
Another Zetec-engined FC with a best lap time of 1:10.991
A Formula 4 Ligier with a 2 litre Honda K20 C2 engine making 158hp, and
frankly capable of much better than the 1:12.518 lap time that was his best. >>
Then me in a Formula F with no wings and only about 130-131hp (as
attested to by the engine builder responsible for putting the Fit engine
into Formula F).
Then another F4 Ligier that had some kind of mechanical problem.
15 HP? Do you knowYes. And as I just explained to you, the extra exit speed in the corners
that wings add drag?
from downforce more than makes up for it. I guess that's why you've
carefully ignored the whole analysis I gave you of the relative benefits
of corner exit speed vs power.
If all it took was lower drag to go faster, then why hasn't any FC at
mission shown up with the absolutely minimal wings that FCs ran when
they last raced at Daytona for the runoffs? Wings like this:
One of the FCs who finished behind me (Rob Phinney) came up to me after
to marvel at my ability to pull away from him down the straight, and he
came to a very similar wrong conclusion to yours.
He told me how I must have had more power than he did, but I can
guarantee you that the real reason was that I was exiting turn 9
something like 5mph faster than he was. In his case, it wasn't lack of
the car's ability that led to it, but rather his lack of experience.
It's only the ignorant such as yourself who think it's about power and
drag when except in extreme circumstances, it is always about corner
exit speed.
Fraser had a good time in the last race, butBecause he had a brake issue that resulted in him not being able to
was much slower in the second.
trust that the car would slow down sufficiently every time.
In the last race, he found a couple of o-rings of the correct size to
stop the caliper from leaking, leading to a firm pedal he could trust
(and not one that would move so far down that it would get interference
from the steering shaft). But his driving in each race was with
essentially the same skill.
Proves nothing. Too many otherWow. There is so much you get wrong it's hilarious.
variables at work. What counts is a season's data, not a lap or two.
Looking at best lap vs best lap cuts out any questions about car
reliability.
On his best lap, in pretty much identical conditions of air and track
temperature and grip, on tires 1-2 seconds faster than mine, he and I
were essentially level.
I wasn't bragging about beating anyone at all.
So let's look closely at Phinney and Redpath records. In the season
2022 FC standings Phinney is dead last among drivers with enough
races to be scored for the championship. He has 34 points compared to
the leader's 134. His name does not appear anywhere in the 2018-2021
season standings. Redpath is nowhere to be found among all OW drivers
in the 2018-2022 standings - a newcomer??? So you a bragging about
beating a chronically slow driver, likely a SBBC rookie, and someone
who has no record at the track. Get serious.
What I was pointing out was that it is clear that driver skill and
experience is the differentiator.
The fact is that each of them was in a car that should easily have been
faster than my FF. I didn't beat them with my 15hp bump and no drag from
wings.
Your ego is really that big for you to spend on all this time trying take all the credit when obviously the new car is so obviously important?
On 2022-08-30 20:32, Thomas E. wrote:
On Tuesday, August 30, 2022 at 3:50:33 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
On 2022-08-30 11:41, Thomas E. wrote:
On Tuesday, August 30, 2022 at 12:58:21 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:As I said: not really a class. And my references to being 15 thousandths >> slower had nothing to do with FL.
On 2022-08-30 09:20, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 7:34:52 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:Liarboy:
Well, there were definitely lows and highs this past weekend.
I started off on a low, when I got all the way out to
Abbotsford to hook up to my tow vehicle... ...and realized that >>>>>> I'd forgotten to transfer my garage and trailer keys to my tow
vehicle when I moved over my racing gear.
Then I went to the track and I was buoyed back up by the fact
that my friend, Keith (from whom I rent the garage for the car) >>>>>> had his keys to the garage and the spare key for my trailer
hitch lock was hanging up inside.
So back to Abbotsford with very little time to spare to hook
up the trailer and make registration... ...which became an
impossibility when I accidentally dropped the nose of the
trailer off the ball. The time it would take to get it back
onto the ball would have meant arriving after registration had
close for Saturday.
But there was still Sunday, and since I'd registered in two
classes in two separate groups (as a Formula F in Open Wheel 2
and as a Formula Libre running without the restrictor in Open
Wheel 1), I was still going to get a decent amount of track
time.
From there, the weekend unfolded... ...decently.
I went out for qualifying for Formula F and after helping a
friend learn the lines, I set out to do my own best lap...
...only to discover that the gasoline that seemed to be on my
dipstick was just from the foam in the fuel cell being moist.
So I didn't turn any truly representative times, but somewhat
fortunately, no one else turned much of a lap and I ended up
second on the grid.
In Formula Libre, after pulling the restrictor, my best time
was 1:14.722; good enough that I was in front of two FCs that
still had a 15-20hp advantage on me and wings as well. But
after looking at my tires, I realized I had over-compensated
for the ambient temperature and once up to race pace, the tires >>>>>> were too crowned.
For the first Formula F race of the day, I drop the tire
pressures by 2psi (to 11psi front and 13psi rear), and my best
race lap was 1:13.958; better than I'd run despite once again
having a restrictor to limit the power to the level of the
Kent. I won the race by more than 49 seconds, although if the
new guy, Rob (running the stickier Hoosier Club Ford tire to my >>>>>> American Racers), hadn't had to brake problems, I think he and
I would have had a terrific battle for the win.
In the first Open Wheel 1 race on Sunday, I knew I was just
out there to have a good time. In all honesty, 130hp and no
wings for added downforce was simply not going to match up to
the 145-150hp and wings of the FCs; to say nothing of the guy
in his F1000 motorcycle-engined car (a car of that class holds
our outright lap record) turning laps in about 1:05. But I
still think I gave a good account of myself. At the end of the
race, there were still to FCs behind me, neither of whom
managed to turn a faster lap than my best.
Then it all came apart again.
While putting the restrictor back into the car for the second
Open Wheel 2, Formula F race, I managed to drop a bolt down the >>>>>> front of the engine into the same area as the belt for the oil
scavenge pump and alternator and the search for it took me past >>>>>> the time I had to get the car to pre-grid in time for the race. >>>>>> And with the race that really mattered to me no longer a
possibility, I simply decided that running the car with a bolt
loose in the engine bay near exposed, vital components wasn't
worth the risk of going out for the final Formula Libre race in >>>>>> Open Wheel 1.
Rob, who'd had braking problems that put him out of contention
in the first race of the day, did make the second race after
finding some o-rings that would cure his brake caliper leak,
and his best lap of that race was just a whisker faster than my >>>>>> best lap of the first race of the day; just 15 thousandths of a >>>>>> second faster. But he was on the Hoosier Club Ford tire and the >>>>>> consensus seems to be that they are about a 1.5-2 second
advantage around our track.
So a foreshortened weekend...
...purely my own fault...
...but still a lot of fun.
Others were far less lucky.
Erle's weekend ended during qualifying for race 1 on Saturday,
when—out of the blue, his car snapped viciously to the left
while braking for turn 1, and he hit the wall hard. No damage
to him, but his Tiga is going to need a LOT of repair; both
front suspensions, the front mounted radiator, parts of the
rear end, bodywork. It was a bit of a mess. But the
construction of the car did its job and he walked away with
nothing but sore thumbs from being unable to get his hands away >>>>>> from the steering wheel quickly enough.
One of our newly graduated novices, Courtenay, never got to
race a single session on Sunday, as the car she is sharing with >>>>>> its owner suffered an engine problem while he, Don, was running >>>>>> the car on Saturday to complete his novice program.
My good friend Pierre, whom I beat in qualifying despite him
being in FC to my FF (unrestricted) but still...
...he lost the car coming out of turn 9 and ended up going
backwards into the inside wall at about 85mph. Once again, the
damage to the car wasn't good, but the driver was completely
fine.
The new drivers in FF bode well for the coming year, and once
we all come to a consensus about what tires to run, I think
we're going to get some good racing for everyone.
:-)
As usual, Alan omits some critical details. Let's explore this
claim:
">In the first Open Wheel 1 race on Sunday, I knew I was just
out there to
have a good time. In all honesty, 130hp and no wings for added
downforce was simply not going to match up to the 145-150hp
and wings of the FCs; to say nothing of the guy in his F1000
motorcycle-engined car (a car of that class holds our outright
lap record) turning laps in about 1:05. But I still think I
gave a good account of myself. At the end of the race, there
were still to (sic) FCs behind me, neither of whom managed to
turn a faster lap than my best."
Sunday 28 August, OW 1, Race 2, FL results. See:
https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/6764769#byClass
6 FL cars were entered. One (#71) was 6 laps behind at the
finish, another (#15) was a DNS. That leaves 4. Of the 5 that ran >>>>> the race Alan finished 4th. So finishing ahead of 2 FL cards, one >>>>> of which did not even start and the other obviously having issues >>>>> is not quite what Alan stated. The car #71) that was 6 laps
behind had a best lap of 1:11.115. Alan's best? 1:13.743. Alan's
best time was the slowest of all 5 cars that were in the race.
What you would expect given the HP difference.
ALL the cars in Open Wheel 1 had at least a 15 horsepower
advantage.
All the cars out there except me had wings for down force as well.
Formula Libre isn't really a class at all. It's just a catch-all,
so that people with oddball cars have some cubbyhole into which
they can be put.
So what did I leave out, exactly? "In the first Open Wheel 1 race
on Sunday, I knew I was just out there to have a good time. In all
honesty, 130hp and no wings for added downforce was simply not
going to match up to the 145-150hp and wings of the FCs; to say
nothing of the guy in his F1000 motorcycle-engined car (a car of
that class holds our outright lap record) turning laps in about
1:05." I didn't specifically call out the Ligier F4 cars, but they
have wings and a Honda K20 C2 engine which makes 158hp.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_K_engine#K20C>
I said I was out there for fun and knew that on paper I shouldn't
have finished ahead of any of the cars in that group.
Really, you did not expect anyone to check the results?And determine... ...what: that I still managed to beat two guys in
Formula Continentals with at least 15 more horsepower than I had
and downforce to exit the corners (particularly turn 9) faster?
Indeed, let's look at the results; the OVERALL results:
<https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/6764769#all-results>
What's funny is that you don't see the forest for the trees.
What I found instructive was the change in lap times between adding >>>> more power and finding more grip.
Setting aside Open Wheel 2 Sunday qualifying ("OW 2 Race 2 Qualify" >>>> on Speedhive), because I had basically only finished my warmup laps >>>> before heading back in due to low fuel (note to self: the dip stick >>>> just being moist is insufficient evidence of sufficient fuel):
I went out for Open Wheel 1 Sunday qualifying ("OW1 Race 2
Qualify") with something like 15 more horsepower than usual and my
best lap was 1:14.722. So I dropped the tire pressure by about 2psi >>>> front and rear.
Then in "OW2 Race 2 Race" my best lap was 1:13.958. Lower
horsepower by about 15, but faster corner exits made me nearly 1
second a lap faster.
Then in "OW1 Race 2 Race" my best lap was 1:13.743. So assuming
I'm driving with roughly the same ability as an hour previously,
and with track conditions essentially identical, 15 horsepower was
good for only about 2 tenths of a second.
So now think about how little any small horsepower difference
between Kents and Hondas running with restrictors should make.
Alan, I welcome your reply.But if you are out there, you can be competitive. As Rob Fraser's
Sunday 28 August OW 2, Race 2 FF results. See:
https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/6764771#byClass
Indeed, just as Alan described. He won handily against FF cars
that he has regularly beaten in the past. As he stated, a Kent
powered FF car could not compete due to engine problems. Hmmmm.
Hard to be competitive with unreliable engines, eh?
performance indicated.
And despite having tires that in theory are 1-2 seconds slower,
than my American Racers, my best lap was only 15 thousands of a
second slower than Rob's best lap.
All total BS. You finished last in your FL class.
The cars in Formula Libre were (in finishing order):
A Formula Continental, but one running the wrong tires for our rules, so >> registered in Formula Libre. 150+ horsepower Zetec engine and a best lap >> time of 1:08.026
Another Zetec-engined FC with a best lap time of 1:10.991
A Formula 4 Ligier with a 2 litre Honda K20 C2 engine making 158hp, and >> frankly capable of much better than the 1:12.518 lap time that was his best.
Then me in a Formula F with no wings and only about 130-131hp (as
attested to by the engine builder responsible for putting the Fit engine >> into Formula F).
Then another F4 Ligier that had some kind of mechanical problem.
15 HP? Do you knowYes. And as I just explained to you, the extra exit speed in the corners >> from downforce more than makes up for it. I guess that's why you've
that wings add drag?
carefully ignored the whole analysis I gave you of the relative benefits >> of corner exit speed vs power.
If all it took was lower drag to go faster, then why hasn't any FC at
mission shown up with the absolutely minimal wings that FCs ran when
they last raced at Daytona for the runoffs? Wings like this:
One of the FCs who finished behind me (Rob Phinney) came up to me after >> to marvel at my ability to pull away from him down the straight, and he >> came to a very similar wrong conclusion to yours.
He told me how I must have had more power than he did, but I can
guarantee you that the real reason was that I was exiting turn 9
something like 5mph faster than he was. In his case, it wasn't lack of
the car's ability that led to it, but rather his lack of experience.
It's only the ignorant such as yourself who think it's about power and
drag when except in extreme circumstances, it is always about corner
exit speed.
Fraser had a good time in the last race, butBecause he had a brake issue that resulted in him not being able to
was much slower in the second.
trust that the car would slow down sufficiently every time.
In the last race, he found a couple of o-rings of the correct size to
stop the caliper from leaking, leading to a firm pedal he could trust
(and not one that would move so far down that it would get interference >> from the steering shaft). But his driving in each race was with
essentially the same skill.
Proves nothing. Too many otherWow. There is so much you get wrong it's hilarious.
variables at work. What counts is a season's data, not a lap or two.
Looking at best lap vs best lap cuts out any questions about car
reliability.
On his best lap, in pretty much identical conditions of air and track
temperature and grip, on tires 1-2 seconds faster than mine, he and I
were essentially level.
I wasn't bragging about beating anyone at all.
So let's look closely at Phinney and Redpath records. In the season
2022 FC standings Phinney is dead last among drivers with enough
races to be scored for the championship. He has 34 points compared to >>> the leader's 134. His name does not appear anywhere in the 2018-2021
season standings. Redpath is nowhere to be found among all OW drivers >>> in the 2018-2022 standings - a newcomer??? So you a bragging about
beating a chronically slow driver, likely a SBBC rookie, and someone
who has no record at the track. Get serious.
What I was pointing out was that it is clear that driver skill and
experience is the differentiator.
The fact is that each of them was in a car that should easily have been >> faster than my FF. I didn't beat them with my 15hp bump and no drag from >> wings.
Your ego is really that big for you to spend on all this time trying take all the credit when obviously the new car is so obviously important?Why is so "obviously important", Liarboy?
As has been explained to you time and time again:
1. The Honda has no performance advantage on the track.
2. The aerodynamic advantage of a more modern FF amounts to almost
nothing at a track such as Mission, because we have no long straights.
And Rob Fraser has a pretty modern FF himself...
...with a fresh Kent engine by a good engine builder...
...and he was using tires that are worth 1-2 seconds around our course.
On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 12:29:55 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:What's funny is that you don't see the forest for the trees.
On 2022-08-30 20:32, Thomas E. wrote:
On Tuesday, August 30, 2022 at 3:50:33 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
On 2022-08-30 11:41, Thomas E. wrote:
On Tuesday, August 30, 2022 at 12:58:21 PM UTC-4, Alan
wrote:
On 2022-08-30 09:20, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 7:34:52 PM UTC-4, AlanLiarboy:
wrote:
Well, there were definitely lows and highs this past
weekend.
I started off on a low, when I got all the way out to
Abbotsford to hook up to my tow vehicle... ...and
realized that I'd forgotten to transfer my garage and
trailer keys to my tow vehicle when I moved over my
racing gear.
Then I went to the track and I was buoyed back up by
the fact that my friend, Keith (from whom I rent the
garage for the car) had his keys to the garage and the
spare key for my trailer hitch lock was hanging up
inside.
So back to Abbotsford with very little time to spare to
hook up the trailer and make registration... ...which
became an impossibility when I accidentally dropped the
nose of the trailer off the ball. The time it would
take to get it back onto the ball would have meant
arriving after registration had close for Saturday.
But there was still Sunday, and since I'd registered in
two classes in two separate groups (as a Formula F in
Open Wheel 2 and as a Formula Libre running without the
restrictor in Open Wheel 1), I was still going to get a
decent amount of track time.
From there, the weekend unfolded... ...decently.
I went out for qualifying for Formula F and after
helping a friend learn the lines, I set out to do my
own best lap... ...only to discover that the gasoline
that seemed to be on my dipstick was just from the foam
in the fuel cell being moist. So I didn't turn any
truly representative times, but somewhat fortunately,
no one else turned much of a lap and I ended up second
on the grid.
In Formula Libre, after pulling the restrictor, my best
time was 1:14.722; good enough that I was in front of
two FCs that still had a 15-20hp advantage on me and
wings as well. But after looking at my tires, I
realized I had over-compensated for the ambient
temperature and once up to race pace, the tires were
too crowned.
For the first Formula F race of the day, I drop the
tire pressures by 2psi (to 11psi front and 13psi rear),
and my best race lap was 1:13.958; better than I'd run
despite once again having a restrictor to limit the
power to the level of the Kent. I won the race by more
than 49 seconds, although if the new guy, Rob (running
the stickier Hoosier Club Ford tire to my American
Racers), hadn't had to brake problems, I think he and I
would have had a terrific battle for the win.
In the first Open Wheel 1 race on Sunday, I knew I was
just out there to have a good time. In all honesty,
130hp and no wings for added downforce was simply not
going to match up to the 145-150hp and wings of the
FCs; to say nothing of the guy in his F1000
motorcycle-engined car (a car of that class holds our
outright lap record) turning laps in about 1:05. But I
still think I gave a good account of myself. At the end
of the race, there were still to FCs behind me, neither
of whom managed to turn a faster lap than my best.
Then it all came apart again.
While putting the restrictor back into the car for the
second Open Wheel 2, Formula F race, I managed to drop
a bolt down the front of the engine into the same area
as the belt for the oil scavenge pump and alternator
and the search for it took me past the time I had to
get the car to pre-grid in time for the race. And with
the race that really mattered to me no longer a
possibility, I simply decided that running the car with
a bolt loose in the engine bay near exposed, vital
components wasn't worth the risk of going out for the
final Formula Libre race in Open Wheel 1.
Rob, who'd had braking problems that put him out of
contention in the first race of the day, did make the
second race after finding some o-rings that would cure
his brake caliper leak, and his best lap of that race
was just a whisker faster than my best lap of the first
race of the day; just 15 thousandths of a second
faster. But he was on the Hoosier Club Ford tire and
the consensus seems to be that they are about a 1.5-2
second advantage around our track.
So a foreshortened weekend...
...purely my own fault...
...but still a lot of fun.
Others were far less lucky.
Erle's weekend ended during qualifying for race 1 on
Saturday, when—out of the blue, his car snapped
viciously to the left while braking for turn 1, and he
hit the wall hard. No damage to him, but his Tiga is
going to need a LOT of repair; both front suspensions,
the front mounted radiator, parts of the rear end,
bodywork. It was a bit of a mess. But the construction
of the car did its job and he walked away with nothing
but sore thumbs from being unable to get his hands
away from the steering wheel quickly enough.
One of our newly graduated novices, Courtenay, never
got to race a single session on Sunday, as the car she
is sharing with its owner suffered an engine problem
while he, Don, was running the car on Saturday to
complete his novice program.
My good friend Pierre, whom I beat in qualifying
despite him being in FC to my FF (unrestricted) but
still...
...he lost the car coming out of turn 9 and ended up
going backwards into the inside wall at about 85mph.
Once again, the damage to the car wasn't good, but the
driver was completely fine.
The new drivers in FF bode well for the coming year,
and once we all come to a consensus about what tires to
run, I think we're going to get some good racing for
everyone.
:-)
As usual, Alan omits some critical details. Let's explore
this claim:
">In the first Open Wheel 1 race on Sunday, I knew I was
just out there to
have a good time. In all honesty, 130hp and no wings
for added downforce was simply not going to match up to
the 145-150hp and wings of the FCs; to say nothing of
the guy in his F1000 motorcycle-engined car (a car of
that class holds our outright lap record) turning laps
in about 1:05. But I still think I gave a good account
of myself. At the end of the race, there were still to
(sic) FCs behind me, neither of whom managed to turn a
faster lap than my best."
Sunday 28 August, OW 1, Race 2, FL results. See:
https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/6764769#byClass
6 FL cars were entered. One (#71) was 6 laps behind at
the finish, another (#15) was a DNS. That leaves 4. Of
the 5 that ran the race Alan finished 4th. So finishing
ahead of 2 FL cards, one of which did not even start and
the other obviously having issues is not quite what Alan
stated. The car #71) that was 6 laps behind had a best
lap of 1:11.115. Alan's best? 1:13.743. Alan's best time
was the slowest of all 5 cars that were in the race. What
you would expect given the HP difference.
ALL the cars in Open Wheel 1 had at least a 15 horsepower
advantage.
All the cars out there except me had wings for down force
as well.
Formula Libre isn't really a class at all. It's just a
catch-all, so that people with oddball cars have some
cubbyhole into which they can be put.
So what did I leave out, exactly? "In the first Open Wheel
1 race on Sunday, I knew I was just out there to have a
good time. In all honesty, 130hp and no wings for added
downforce was simply not going to match up to the 145-150hp
and wings of the FCs; to say nothing of the guy in his
F1000 motorcycle-engined car (a car of that class holds our
outright lap record) turning laps in about 1:05." I didn't
specifically call out the Ligier F4 cars, but they have
wings and a Honda K20 C2 engine which makes 158hp.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_K_engine#K20C>
I said I was out there for fun and knew that on paper I
shouldn't have finished ahead of any of the cars in that
group.
Really, you did not expect anyone to check the results?And determine... ...what: that I still managed to beat two
guys in Formula Continentals with at least 15 more
horsepower than I had and downforce to exit the corners
(particularly turn 9) faster?
Indeed, let's look at the results; the OVERALL results:
<https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/6764769#all-results>
Why is so "obviously important", Liarboy?As I said: not really a class. And my references to being 15
What I found instructive was the change in lap times
between adding more power and finding more grip.
Setting aside Open Wheel 2 Sunday qualifying ("OW 2 Race 2
Qualify" on Speedhive), because I had basically only
finished my warmup laps before heading back in due to low
fuel (note to self: the dip stick just being moist is
insufficient evidence of sufficient fuel):
I went out for Open Wheel 1 Sunday qualifying ("OW1 Race 2
Qualify") with something like 15 more horsepower than usual
and my best lap was 1:14.722. So I dropped the tire
pressure by about 2psi front and rear.
Then in "OW2 Race 2 Race" my best lap was 1:13.958. Lower
horsepower by about 15, but faster corner exits made me
nearly 1 second a lap faster.
Then in "OW1 Race 2 Race" my best lap was 1:13.743. So
assuming I'm driving with roughly the same ability as an
hour previously, and with track conditions essentially
identical, 15 horsepower was good for only about 2 tenths
of a second.
So now think about how little any small horsepower
difference between Kents and Hondas running with
restrictors should make.
Alan, I welcome your reply.But if you are out there, you can be competitive. As Rob
Sunday 28 August OW 2, Race 2 FF results. See:
https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/6764771#byClass
Indeed, just as Alan described. He won handily against FF
cars that he has regularly beaten in the past. As he
stated, a Kent powered FF car could not compete due to
engine problems. Hmmmm. Hard to be competitive with
unreliable engines, eh?
Fraser's performance indicated.
And despite having tires that in theory are 1-2 seconds
slower, than my American Racers, my best lap was only 15
thousands of a second slower than Rob's best lap.
All total BS. You finished last in your FL class.
thousandths slower had nothing to do with FL.
The cars in Formula Libre were (in finishing order):
A Formula Continental, but one running the wrong tires for our
rules, so registered in Formula Libre. 150+ horsepower Zetec
engine and a best lap time of 1:08.026
Another Zetec-engined FC with a best lap time of 1:10.991
A Formula 4 Ligier with a 2 litre Honda K20 C2 engine making
158hp, and frankly capable of much better than the 1:12.518 lap
time that was his best.
Then me in a Formula F with no wings and only about 130-131hp
(as attested to by the engine builder responsible for putting
the Fit engine into Formula F).
Then another F4 Ligier that had some kind of mechanical
problem.
15 HP? Do you know that wings add drag?Yes. And as I just explained to you, the extra exit speed in
the corners from downforce more than makes up for it. I guess
that's why you've carefully ignored the whole analysis I gave
you of the relative benefits of corner exit speed vs power.
If all it took was lower drag to go faster, then why hasn't any
FC at mission shown up with the absolutely minimal wings that
FCs ran when they last raced at Daytona for the runoffs? Wings
like this:
One of the FCs who finished behind me (Rob Phinney) came up to
me after to marvel at my ability to pull away from him down the
straight, and he came to a very similar wrong conclusion to
yours.
He told me how I must have had more power than he did, but I
can guarantee you that the real reason was that I was exiting
turn 9 something like 5mph faster than he was. In his case, it
wasn't lack of the car's ability that led to it, but rather his
lack of experience.
It's only the ignorant such as yourself who think it's about
power and drag when except in extreme circumstances, it is
always about corner exit speed.
Fraser had a good time in the last race, but was much slowerBecause he had a brake issue that resulted in him not being
in the second.
able to trust that the car would slow down sufficiently every
time.
In the last race, he found a couple of o-rings of the correct
size to stop the caliper from leaking, leading to a firm pedal
he could trust (and not one that would move so far down that it
would get interference from the steering shaft). But his
driving in each race was with essentially the same skill.
Proves nothing. Too many other variables at work. What countsWow. There is so much you get wrong it's hilarious.
is a season's data, not a lap or two.
Looking at best lap vs best lap cuts out any questions about
car reliability.
On his best lap, in pretty much identical conditions of air and
track temperature and grip, on tires 1-2 seconds faster than
mine, he and I were essentially level.
I wasn't bragging about beating anyone at all.
So let's look closely at Phinney and Redpath records. In the
season 2022 FC standings Phinney is dead last among drivers
with enough races to be scored for the championship. He has
34 points compared to the leader's 134. His name does not
appear anywhere in the 2018-2021 season standings. Redpath is
nowhere to be found among all OW drivers in the 2018-2022
standings - a newcomer??? So you a bragging about beating a
chronically slow driver, likely a SBBC rookie, and someone
who has no record at the track. Get serious.
What I was pointing out was that it is clear that driver skill
and experience is the differentiator.
The fact is that each of them was in a car that should easily
have been faster than my FF. I didn't beat them with my 15hp
bump and no drag from wings.
Your ego is really that big for you to spend on all this time
trying take all the credit when obviously the new car is so
obviously important?
As has been explained to you time and time again:
1. The Honda has no performance advantage on the track.
2. The aerodynamic advantage of a more modern FF amounts to almost
nothing at a track such as Mission, because we have no long
straights.
And Rob Fraser has a pretty modern FF himself...
...with a fresh Kent engine by a good engine builder...
...and he was using tires that are worth 1-2 seconds around our
course.
LOL, you make my point
"fresh Kent engine by a good engine builder..."
How long is fresh going to last? Why do you mention "good" engine
builder? How about all the drivers who don't have fresh engines? Why
is fresh even a factor? Why does it take an engine builder to
maintain a Kent?
Alan, you have an advantage because the Honda is a de-rated engine
that does not need to be "freshened" and does not need expert routine ignition system, carburetor and other maintenance (top end
overhauls?) to maintain top level performance.
You admitted this is the reason you bought the car!
On 2022-09-09 07:05, Thomas E. wrote:
On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 12:29:55 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:What's funny is that you don't see the forest for the trees.
On 2022-08-30 20:32, Thomas E. wrote:
On Tuesday, August 30, 2022 at 3:50:33 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
On 2022-08-30 11:41, Thomas E. wrote:
On Tuesday, August 30, 2022 at 12:58:21 PM UTC-4, Alan
wrote:
On 2022-08-30 09:20, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 7:34:52 PM UTC-4, AlanLiarboy:
wrote:
Well, there were definitely lows and highs this past
weekend.
I started off on a low, when I got all the way out to
Abbotsford to hook up to my tow vehicle... ...and
realized that I'd forgotten to transfer my garage and
trailer keys to my tow vehicle when I moved over my
racing gear.
Then I went to the track and I was buoyed back up by
the fact that my friend, Keith (from whom I rent the
garage for the car) had his keys to the garage and the
spare key for my trailer hitch lock was hanging up
inside.
So back to Abbotsford with very little time to spare to
hook up the trailer and make registration... ...which
became an impossibility when I accidentally dropped the
nose of the trailer off the ball. The time it would
take to get it back onto the ball would have meant
arriving after registration had close for Saturday.
But there was still Sunday, and since I'd registered in
two classes in two separate groups (as a Formula F in
Open Wheel 2 and as a Formula Libre running without the
restrictor in Open Wheel 1), I was still going to get a
decent amount of track time.
From there, the weekend unfolded... ...decently.
I went out for qualifying for Formula F and after
helping a friend learn the lines, I set out to do my
own best lap... ...only to discover that the gasoline
that seemed to be on my dipstick was just from the foam
in the fuel cell being moist. So I didn't turn any
truly representative times, but somewhat fortunately,
no one else turned much of a lap and I ended up second
on the grid.
In Formula Libre, after pulling the restrictor, my best
time was 1:14.722; good enough that I was in front of
two FCs that still had a 15-20hp advantage on me and
wings as well. But after looking at my tires, I
realized I had over-compensated for the ambient
temperature and once up to race pace, the tires were
too crowned.
For the first Formula F race of the day, I drop the
tire pressures by 2psi (to 11psi front and 13psi rear),
and my best race lap was 1:13.958; better than I'd run
despite once again having a restrictor to limit the
power to the level of the Kent. I won the race by more
than 49 seconds, although if the new guy, Rob (running
the stickier Hoosier Club Ford tire to my American
Racers), hadn't had to brake problems, I think he and I
would have had a terrific battle for the win.
In the first Open Wheel 1 race on Sunday, I knew I was
just out there to have a good time. In all honesty,
130hp and no wings for added downforce was simply not
going to match up to the 145-150hp and wings of the
FCs; to say nothing of the guy in his F1000
motorcycle-engined car (a car of that class holds our
outright lap record) turning laps in about 1:05. But I
still think I gave a good account of myself. At the end
of the race, there were still to FCs behind me, neither
of whom managed to turn a faster lap than my best.
Then it all came apart again.
While putting the restrictor back into the car for the
second Open Wheel 2, Formula F race, I managed to drop
a bolt down the front of the engine into the same area
as the belt for the oil scavenge pump and alternator
and the search for it took me past the time I had to
get the car to pre-grid in time for the race. And with
the race that really mattered to me no longer a
possibility, I simply decided that running the car with
a bolt loose in the engine bay near exposed, vital
components wasn't worth the risk of going out for the
final Formula Libre race in Open Wheel 1.
Rob, who'd had braking problems that put him out of
contention in the first race of the day, did make the
second race after finding some o-rings that would cure
his brake caliper leak, and his best lap of that race
was just a whisker faster than my best lap of the first
race of the day; just 15 thousandths of a second
faster. But he was on the Hoosier Club Ford tire and
the consensus seems to be that they are about a 1.5-2
second advantage around our track.
So a foreshortened weekend...
...purely my own fault...
...but still a lot of fun.
Others were far less lucky.
Erle's weekend ended during qualifying for race 1 on
Saturday, when—out of the blue, his car snapped
viciously to the left while braking for turn 1, and he
hit the wall hard. No damage to him, but his Tiga is
going to need a LOT of repair; both front suspensions,
the front mounted radiator, parts of the rear end,
bodywork. It was a bit of a mess. But the construction
of the car did its job and he walked away with nothing
but sore thumbs from being unable to get his hands
away from the steering wheel quickly enough.
One of our newly graduated novices, Courtenay, never
got to race a single session on Sunday, as the car she
is sharing with its owner suffered an engine problem
while he, Don, was running the car on Saturday to
complete his novice program.
My good friend Pierre, whom I beat in qualifying
despite him being in FC to my FF (unrestricted) but
still...
...he lost the car coming out of turn 9 and ended up
going backwards into the inside wall at about 85mph.
Once again, the damage to the car wasn't good, but the
driver was completely fine.
The new drivers in FF bode well for the coming year,
and once we all come to a consensus about what tires to
run, I think we're going to get some good racing for
everyone.
:-)
As usual, Alan omits some critical details. Let's explore
this claim:
">In the first Open Wheel 1 race on Sunday, I knew I was
just out there to
have a good time. In all honesty, 130hp and no wings
for added downforce was simply not going to match up to
the 145-150hp and wings of the FCs; to say nothing of
the guy in his F1000 motorcycle-engined car (a car of
that class holds our outright lap record) turning laps
in about 1:05. But I still think I gave a good account
of myself. At the end of the race, there were still to
(sic) FCs behind me, neither of whom managed to turn a
faster lap than my best."
Sunday 28 August, OW 1, Race 2, FL results. See:
https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/6764769#byClass
6 FL cars were entered. One (#71) was 6 laps behind at
the finish, another (#15) was a DNS. That leaves 4. Of
the 5 that ran the race Alan finished 4th. So finishing
ahead of 2 FL cards, one of which did not even start and
the other obviously having issues is not quite what Alan
stated. The car #71) that was 6 laps behind had a best
lap of 1:11.115. Alan's best? 1:13.743. Alan's best time
was the slowest of all 5 cars that were in the race. What
you would expect given the HP difference.
ALL the cars in Open Wheel 1 had at least a 15 horsepower
advantage.
All the cars out there except me had wings for down force
as well.
Formula Libre isn't really a class at all. It's just a
catch-all, so that people with oddball cars have some
cubbyhole into which they can be put.
So what did I leave out, exactly? "In the first Open Wheel
1 race on Sunday, I knew I was just out there to have a
good time. In all honesty, 130hp and no wings for added
downforce was simply not going to match up to the 145-150hp
and wings of the FCs; to say nothing of the guy in his
F1000 motorcycle-engined car (a car of that class holds our
outright lap record) turning laps in about 1:05." I didn't
specifically call out the Ligier F4 cars, but they have
wings and a Honda K20 C2 engine which makes 158hp.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_K_engine#K20C>
I said I was out there for fun and knew that on paper I
shouldn't have finished ahead of any of the cars in that
group.
Really, you did not expect anyone to check the results?And determine... ...what: that I still managed to beat two
guys in Formula Continentals with at least 15 more
horsepower than I had and downforce to exit the corners
(particularly turn 9) faster?
Indeed, let's look at the results; the OVERALL results:
<https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/6764769#all-results>
Why is so "obviously important", Liarboy?As I said: not really a class. And my references to being 15
What I found instructive was the change in lap times
between adding more power and finding more grip.
Setting aside Open Wheel 2 Sunday qualifying ("OW 2 Race 2
Qualify" on Speedhive), because I had basically only
finished my warmup laps before heading back in due to low
fuel (note to self: the dip stick just being moist is
insufficient evidence of sufficient fuel):
I went out for Open Wheel 1 Sunday qualifying ("OW1 Race 2
Qualify") with something like 15 more horsepower than usual
and my best lap was 1:14.722. So I dropped the tire
pressure by about 2psi front and rear.
Then in "OW2 Race 2 Race" my best lap was 1:13.958. Lower
horsepower by about 15, but faster corner exits made me
nearly 1 second a lap faster.
Then in "OW1 Race 2 Race" my best lap was 1:13.743. So
assuming I'm driving with roughly the same ability as an
hour previously, and with track conditions essentially
identical, 15 horsepower was good for only about 2 tenths
of a second.
So now think about how little any small horsepower
difference between Kents and Hondas running with
restrictors should make.
Alan, I welcome your reply.But if you are out there, you can be competitive. As Rob
Sunday 28 August OW 2, Race 2 FF results. See:
https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/6764771#byClass
Indeed, just as Alan described. He won handily against FF
cars that he has regularly beaten in the past. As he
stated, a Kent powered FF car could not compete due to
engine problems. Hmmmm. Hard to be competitive with
unreliable engines, eh?
Fraser's performance indicated.
And despite having tires that in theory are 1-2 seconds
slower, than my American Racers, my best lap was only 15
thousands of a second slower than Rob's best lap.
All total BS. You finished last in your FL class.
thousandths slower had nothing to do with FL.
The cars in Formula Libre were (in finishing order):
A Formula Continental, but one running the wrong tires for our
rules, so registered in Formula Libre. 150+ horsepower Zetec
engine and a best lap time of 1:08.026
Another Zetec-engined FC with a best lap time of 1:10.991
A Formula 4 Ligier with a 2 litre Honda K20 C2 engine making
158hp, and frankly capable of much better than the 1:12.518 lap
time that was his best.
Then me in a Formula F with no wings and only about 130-131hp
(as attested to by the engine builder responsible for putting
the Fit engine into Formula F).
Then another F4 Ligier that had some kind of mechanical
problem.
15 HP? Do you know that wings add drag?Yes. And as I just explained to you, the extra exit speed in
the corners from downforce more than makes up for it. I guess
that's why you've carefully ignored the whole analysis I gave
you of the relative benefits of corner exit speed vs power.
If all it took was lower drag to go faster, then why hasn't any
FC at mission shown up with the absolutely minimal wings that
FCs ran when they last raced at Daytona for the runoffs? Wings
like this:
One of the FCs who finished behind me (Rob Phinney) came up to
me after to marvel at my ability to pull away from him down the
straight, and he came to a very similar wrong conclusion to
yours.
He told me how I must have had more power than he did, but I
can guarantee you that the real reason was that I was exiting
turn 9 something like 5mph faster than he was. In his case, it
wasn't lack of the car's ability that led to it, but rather his
lack of experience.
It's only the ignorant such as yourself who think it's about
power and drag when except in extreme circumstances, it is
always about corner exit speed.
Fraser had a good time in the last race, but was much slowerBecause he had a brake issue that resulted in him not being
in the second.
able to trust that the car would slow down sufficiently every
time.
In the last race, he found a couple of o-rings of the correct
size to stop the caliper from leaking, leading to a firm pedal
he could trust (and not one that would move so far down that it
would get interference from the steering shaft). But his
driving in each race was with essentially the same skill.
Proves nothing. Too many other variables at work. What countsWow. There is so much you get wrong it's hilarious.
is a season's data, not a lap or two.
Looking at best lap vs best lap cuts out any questions about
car reliability.
On his best lap, in pretty much identical conditions of air and
track temperature and grip, on tires 1-2 seconds faster than
mine, he and I were essentially level.
I wasn't bragging about beating anyone at all.
So let's look closely at Phinney and Redpath records. In the
season 2022 FC standings Phinney is dead last among drivers
with enough races to be scored for the championship. He has
34 points compared to the leader's 134. His name does not
appear anywhere in the 2018-2021 season standings. Redpath is
nowhere to be found among all OW drivers in the 2018-2022
standings - a newcomer??? So you a bragging about beating a
chronically slow driver, likely a SBBC rookie, and someone
who has no record at the track. Get serious.
What I was pointing out was that it is clear that driver skill
and experience is the differentiator.
The fact is that each of them was in a car that should easily
have been faster than my FF. I didn't beat them with my 15hp
bump and no drag from wings.
Your ego is really that big for you to spend on all this time
trying take all the credit when obviously the new car is so
obviously important?
As has been explained to you time and time again:
1. The Honda has no performance advantage on the track.
2. The aerodynamic advantage of a more modern FF amounts to almost
nothing at a track such as Mission, because we have no long
straights.
And Rob Fraser has a pretty modern FF himself...
...with a fresh Kent engine by a good engine builder...
...and he was using tires that are worth 1-2 seconds around our
course.
LOL, you make my point
"fresh Kent engine by a good engine builder..."
How long is fresh going to last? Why do you mention "good" engine
builder? How about all the drivers who don't have fresh engines? Why
is fresh even a factor? Why does it take an engine builder to
maintain a Kent?
Alan, you have an advantage because the Honda is a de-rated engine
that does not need to be "freshened" and does not need expert routine ignition system, carburetor and other maintenance (top end
overhauls?) to maintain top level performance.
You admitted this is the reason you bought the car!Factors you've forgotten, Liarboy.
Erle has an engine from a GREAT—arguably the greatest—Kent engine builder: Jay Ivey
Doug had an engine from a GREAT-probably second only to Ivey—Kent engine builder: Arnie Loyning.
Alan McColl is a good engine builder who takes care of engines for most
of the rest of the field if they don't send their engine out.
And no one who knows Formula F argues any more that a Honda has a power advantage over a good Kent.
And most importantly of all, you've been suggesting that my on track performance is down to having a Honda, but you ignore that we need to
look at best versus best when it comes to who is actually fast.
Doug Floer set the FF track record in idea conditions in May—with his fresh Loyning engine (with a 4-2-1 long header setup which is ideal for Mission's slow corner layout)—at 1:10.533. Doug's car is also set up
and cared for by a professional race car prep shop owned by his brother-in-law.
In July, I set my personal best time of 1:10.833 seconds.
Sorry, but as much as you desperately want to believe it, Liarboy, my performance in the car cannot be put down to my having a Honda and the
other drivers all having tired old Kents.
:-)
Doug Floer set the FF track record in idea conditions in May—withAlan, you totally miss the point - again. You again admit that it
his fresh Loyning engine (with a 4-2-1 long header setup which is
ideal for Mission's slow corner layout)—at 1:10.533. Doug's car is
also set up and cared for by a professional race car prep shop
owned by his brother-in-law.
In July, I set my personal best time of 1:10.833 seconds.
Sorry, but as much as you desperately want to believe it, Liarboy,
my performance in the car cannot be put down to my having a Honda
and the other drivers all having tired old Kents.
:-)
takes significant expense and effort to maintain a Kent. You admit
that Floer needed a fresh Kent from a "great" builder to set the
track record. Your Honda, far from fresh, nearly matched that
record.
Face it Liarboy, the Kent's power fades with track time. The Kent is competitive only when it's fresh from a rebuild and set up by
experts. You have a competitive advantage.
On 2022-09-13 05:03, Thomas E. wrote:
Doug Floer set the FF track record in idea conditions in May—withAlan, you totally miss the point - again. You again admit that it
his fresh Loyning engine (with a 4-2-1 long header setup which is
ideal for Mission's slow corner layout)—at 1:10.533. Doug's car is
also set up and cared for by a professional race car prep shop
owned by his brother-in-law.
In July, I set my personal best time of 1:10.833 seconds.
Sorry, but as much as you desperately want to believe it, Liarboy,
my performance in the car cannot be put down to my having a Honda
and the other drivers all having tired old Kents.
:-)
takes significant expense and effort to maintain a Kent. You admit
that Floer needed a fresh Kent from a "great" builder to set the
track record. Your Honda, far from fresh, nearly matched that
record.
Face it Liarboy, the Kent's power fades with track time. The Kent is competitive only when it's fresh from a rebuild and set up by
experts. You have a competitive advantage.
No, Liarboy;
YOU don't get it.
Yes: to set a track record you need a good engine in a good car with
good tires...
...with a good driver.
You have attempted to suggest that my success on the track is down to
having a Honda and that as a driver I'm really not that good.
But I nearly matched the lap record, Liarboy.
Having a Honda alone couldn't have made that happen.
On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 1:04:58 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:gives you an inherent advantage across a season of racing.
On 2022-09-13 05:03, Thomas E. wrote:
No, Liarboy;Doug Floer set the FF track record in idea conditions in May—withAlan, you totally miss the point - again. You again admit that it
his fresh Loyning engine (with a 4-2-1 long header setup which is
ideal for Mission's slow corner layout)—at 1:10.533. Doug's car is
also set up and cared for by a professional race car prep shop
owned by his brother-in-law.
In July, I set my personal best time of 1:10.833 seconds.
Sorry, but as much as you desperately want to believe it, Liarboy,
my performance in the car cannot be put down to my having a Honda
and the other drivers all having tired old Kents.
:-)
takes significant expense and effort to maintain a Kent. You admit
that Floer needed a fresh Kent from a "great" builder to set the
track record. Your Honda, far from fresh, nearly matched that
record.
Face it Liarboy, the Kent's power fades with track time. The Kent is
competitive only when it's fresh from a rebuild and set up by
experts. You have a competitive advantage.
YOU don't get it.
Yes: to set a track record you need a good engine in a good car with
good tires...
...with a good driver.
You have attempted to suggest that my success on the track is down to
having a Honda and that as a driver I'm really not that good.
But I nearly matched the lap record, Liarboy.
Having a Honda alone couldn't have made that happen.
And you don't get it either. Was your Honda set up with special headers and freshly overhauled? I think not. You are a better-than-average driver in the SCCBC context, I'll give you that. But the consistent high performance of your de-rated engine
Which is why you see so few Kent engines still in the Runoffs.
On 2022-09-15 05:38, Thomas E. wrote:gives you an inherent advantage across a season of racing.
On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 1:04:58 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
On 2022-09-13 05:03, Thomas E. wrote:
No, Liarboy;Doug Floer set the FF track record in idea conditions in May—with >>>> his fresh Loyning engine (with a 4-2-1 long header setup which isAlan, you totally miss the point - again. You again admit that it
ideal for Mission's slow corner layout)—at 1:10.533. Doug's car is >>>> also set up and cared for by a professional race car prep shop
owned by his brother-in-law.
In July, I set my personal best time of 1:10.833 seconds.
Sorry, but as much as you desperately want to believe it, Liarboy,
my performance in the car cannot be put down to my having a Honda
and the other drivers all having tired old Kents.
:-)
takes significant expense and effort to maintain a Kent. You admit
that Floer needed a fresh Kent from a "great" builder to set the
track record. Your Honda, far from fresh, nearly matched that
record.
Face it Liarboy, the Kent's power fades with track time. The Kent is
competitive only when it's fresh from a rebuild and set up by
experts. You have a competitive advantage.
YOU don't get it.
Yes: to set a track record you need a good engine in a good car with
good tires...
...with a good driver.
You have attempted to suggest that my success on the track is down to
having a Honda and that as a driver I'm really not that good.
But I nearly matched the lap record, Liarboy.
Having a Honda alone couldn't have made that happen.
And you don't get it either. Was your Honda set up with special headers and freshly overhauled? I think not. You are a better-than-average driver in the SCCBC context, I'll give you that. But the consistent high performance of your de-rated engine
Which is why you see so few Kent engines still in the Runoffs.And as usual, you're trying to spin the conversation to a new topic when you're losing on your original point, Liarboy.
On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 10:59:18 AM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
On 2022-09-15 05:38, Thomas E. wrote:
On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 1:04:58 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:And as usual, you're trying to spin the conversation to a new topic
On 2022-09-13 05:03, Thomas E. wrote:
No, Liarboy;Doug Floer set the FF track record in idea conditions inAlan, you totally miss the point - again. You again admit
May—with his fresh Loyning engine (with a 4-2-1 long header
setup which is ideal for Mission's slow corner layout)—at
1:10.533. Doug's car is also set up and cared for by a
professional race car prep shop owned by his
brother-in-law.
In July, I set my personal best time of 1:10.833 seconds.
Sorry, but as much as you desperately want to believe it,
Liarboy, my performance in the car cannot be put down to my
having a Honda and the other drivers all having tired old
Kents.
:-)
that it takes significant expense and effort to maintain a
Kent. You admit that Floer needed a fresh Kent from a "great"
builder to set the track record. Your Honda, far from fresh,
nearly matched that record.
Face it Liarboy, the Kent's power fades with track time. The
Kent is competitive only when it's fresh from a rebuild and
set up by experts. You have a competitive advantage.
YOU don't get it.
Yes: to set a track record you need a good engine in a good car
with good tires...
...with a good driver.
You have attempted to suggest that my success on the track is
down to having a Honda and that as a driver I'm really not that
good.
But I nearly matched the lap record, Liarboy.
Having a Honda alone couldn't have made that happen.
And you don't get it either. Was your Honda set up with special
headers and freshly overhauled? I think not. You are a
better-than-average driver in the SCCBC context, I'll give you
that. But the consistent high performance of your de-rated engine
gives you an inherent advantage across a season of racing.
Which is why you see so few Kent engines still in the Runoffs.
when you're losing on your original point, Liarboy.
Wrong. You are trying to deflect from the facts. It took a specially
prepared Kent engine to set a Mission FF record lap. Anything less
would have been slower.
On 2022-09-17 13:40, Thomas E. wrote:
On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 10:59:18 AM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
On 2022-09-15 05:38, Thomas E. wrote:
On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 1:04:58 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:And as usual, you're trying to spin the conversation to a new topic
On 2022-09-13 05:03, Thomas E. wrote:
No, Liarboy;Doug Floer set the FF track record in idea conditions inAlan, you totally miss the point - again. You again admit
May—with his fresh Loyning engine (with a 4-2-1 long header
setup which is ideal for Mission's slow corner layout)—at
1:10.533. Doug's car is also set up and cared for by a
professional race car prep shop owned by his
brother-in-law.
In July, I set my personal best time of 1:10.833 seconds.
Sorry, but as much as you desperately want to believe it,
Liarboy, my performance in the car cannot be put down to my
having a Honda and the other drivers all having tired old
Kents.
:-)
that it takes significant expense and effort to maintain a
Kent. You admit that Floer needed a fresh Kent from a "great"
builder to set the track record. Your Honda, far from fresh,
nearly matched that record.
Face it Liarboy, the Kent's power fades with track time. The
Kent is competitive only when it's fresh from a rebuild and
set up by experts. You have a competitive advantage.
YOU don't get it.
Yes: to set a track record you need a good engine in a good car
with good tires...
...with a good driver.
You have attempted to suggest that my success on the track is
down to having a Honda and that as a driver I'm really not that
good.
But I nearly matched the lap record, Liarboy.
Having a Honda alone couldn't have made that happen.
And you don't get it either. Was your Honda set up with special
headers and freshly overhauled? I think not. You are a
better-than-average driver in the SCCBC context, I'll give you
that. But the consistent high performance of your de-rated engine
gives you an inherent advantage across a season of racing.
Which is why you see so few Kent engines still in the Runoffs.
when you're losing on your original point, Liarboy.
Wrong. You are trying to deflect from the facts. It took a specially prepared Kent engine to set a Mission FF record lap. Anything lessNope.
would have been slower.
You're trying to deflect from the fact that you claim the only reason
I'm fast is that I have a Honda...
...when I've just shown you conclusively that a Honda alone won't make
one fast.
On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 12:33:33 AM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
On 2022-09-17 13:40, Thomas E. wrote:
On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 10:59:18 AM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
On 2022-09-15 05:38, Thomas E. wrote:
On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 1:04:58 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:And as usual, you're trying to spin the conversation to a new topic
On 2022-09-13 05:03, Thomas E. wrote:
No, Liarboy;Doug Floer set the FF track record in idea conditions inAlan, you totally miss the point - again. You again admit
May—with his fresh Loyning engine (with a 4-2-1 long header >>>>>> setup which is ideal for Mission's slow corner layout)—at
1:10.533. Doug's car is also set up and cared for by a
professional race car prep shop owned by his
brother-in-law.
In July, I set my personal best time of 1:10.833 seconds.
Sorry, but as much as you desperately want to believe it,
Liarboy, my performance in the car cannot be put down to my
having a Honda and the other drivers all having tired old
Kents.
:-)
that it takes significant expense and effort to maintain a
Kent. You admit that Floer needed a fresh Kent from a "great"
builder to set the track record. Your Honda, far from fresh,
nearly matched that record.
Face it Liarboy, the Kent's power fades with track time. The
Kent is competitive only when it's fresh from a rebuild and
set up by experts. You have a competitive advantage.
YOU don't get it.
Yes: to set a track record you need a good engine in a good car
with good tires...
...with a good driver.
You have attempted to suggest that my success on the track is
down to having a Honda and that as a driver I'm really not that
good.
But I nearly matched the lap record, Liarboy.
Having a Honda alone couldn't have made that happen.
And you don't get it either. Was your Honda set up with special
headers and freshly overhauled? I think not. You are a
better-than-average driver in the SCCBC context, I'll give you
that. But the consistent high performance of your de-rated engine
gives you an inherent advantage across a season of racing.
Which is why you see so few Kent engines still in the Runoffs.
when you're losing on your original point, Liarboy.
Wrong. You are trying to deflect from the facts. It took a specially prepared Kent engine to set a Mission FF record lap. Anything lessNope.
would have been slower.
You're trying to deflect from the fact that you claim the only reason
I'm fast is that I have a Honda...
...when I've just shown you conclusively that a Honda alone won't make
one fast.
Actually you just showed me that to compete with a Honda the Kent needs
to be freshly prepped and with an exhaust system specially tuned for the track.
Quote:
"Doug Floer set the FF track record in idea conditions in
May—with his fresh Loyning engine (with a 4-2-1 long header
setup which is ideal for Mission's slow corner layout)—at
1:10.533. Doug's car is also set up and cared for by a
professional race car prep shop owned by his
brother-in-law."
Do you have a prep shop and a fresh engine? No, you don't need special
prep on your Honda engine. Can you beat Kents without all that work?
Before you bought the Honda car you seldom won races. Now you can.
Thanks for making my point - the Honda is a competitive advantage that
can only be overcome with highly tuned Kent engines and professional
routine maintenance.
Which is why so few show up at the Runoffs these days.
On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 8:46:37 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 12:33:33 AM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
On 2022-09-17 13:40, Thomas E. wrote:
On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 10:59:18 AM UTC-4, Alan wrote:Nope.
On 2022-09-15 05:38, Thomas E. wrote:
On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 1:04:58 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:And as usual, you're trying to spin the conversation to a new topic
On 2022-09-13 05:03, Thomas E. wrote:
No, Liarboy;Doug Floer set the FF track record in idea conditions inAlan, you totally miss the point - again. You again admit
May—with his fresh Loyning engine (with a 4-2-1 long header >>>>>>>>> setup which is ideal for Mission's slow corner layout)—at
1:10.533. Doug's car is also set up and cared for by a
professional race car prep shop owned by his
brother-in-law.
In July, I set my personal best time of 1:10.833 seconds.
Sorry, but as much as you desperately want to believe it,
Liarboy, my performance in the car cannot be put down to my
having a Honda and the other drivers all having tired old
Kents.
:-)
that it takes significant expense and effort to maintain a
Kent. You admit that Floer needed a fresh Kent from a "great"
builder to set the track record. Your Honda, far from fresh,
nearly matched that record.
Face it Liarboy, the Kent's power fades with track time. The
Kent is competitive only when it's fresh from a rebuild and
set up by experts. You have a competitive advantage.
YOU don't get it.
Yes: to set a track record you need a good engine in a good car
with good tires...
...with a good driver.
You have attempted to suggest that my success on the track is
down to having a Honda and that as a driver I'm really not that
good.
But I nearly matched the lap record, Liarboy.
Having a Honda alone couldn't have made that happen.
And you don't get it either. Was your Honda set up with special
headers and freshly overhauled? I think not. You are a
better-than-average driver in the SCCBC context, I'll give you
that. But the consistent high performance of your de-rated engine
gives you an inherent advantage across a season of racing.
Which is why you see so few Kent engines still in the Runoffs.
when you're losing on your original point, Liarboy.
Wrong. You are trying to deflect from the facts. It took a specially
prepared Kent engine to set a Mission FF record lap. Anything less
would have been slower.
You're trying to deflect from the fact that you claim the only reason
I'm fast is that I have a Honda...
...when I've just shown you conclusively that a Honda alone won't make
one fast.
Actually you just showed me that to compete with a Honda the Kent needs
to be freshly prepped and with an exhaust system specially tuned for the track.
Quote:
"Doug Floer set the FF track record in idea conditions in
May—with his fresh Loyning engine (with a 4-2-1 long header
setup which is ideal for Mission's slow corner layout)—at
1:10.533. Doug's car is also set up and cared for by a
professional race car prep shop owned by his
brother-in-law."
Do you have a prep shop and a fresh engine? No, you don't need special
prep on your Honda engine. Can you beat Kents without all that work?
Before you bought the Honda car you seldom won races. Now you can.
Alan also got a new chassis in that change too.
Thanks for making my point - the Honda is a competitive advantage that
can only be overcome with highly tuned Kent engines and professional
routine maintenance.
That is an off-track advantage, not on-track, so what Alan said about Honda not having an advantage on the track is 100% correct.
Which is why so few show up at the Runoffs these days.
It controls costs, which is not an insignificant factor for hobbyists.
Even when it doesn’t give you the best on-track performance.
Actually you just showed me that to compete with a Honda the KentNope.And as usual, you're trying to spin the conversation to a newWrong. You are trying to deflect from the facts. It took a
topic when you're losing on your original point, Liarboy.
specially prepared Kent engine to set a Mission FF record lap.
Anything less would have been slower.
You're trying to deflect from the fact that you claim the only
reason I'm fast is that I have a Honda...
...when I've just shown you conclusively that a Honda alone won't
make one fast.
needs to be freshly prepped and with an exhaust system specially
tuned for the track.
Quote:
"Doug Floer set the FF track record in idea conditions in May—with
his fresh Loyning engine (with a 4-2-1 long header setup which is
ideal for Mission's slow corner layout)—at 1:10.533. Doug's car is
also set up and cared for by a professional race car prep shop owned
by his brother-in-law."
Do you have a prep shop and a fresh engine? No, you don't need
special prep on your Honda engine. Can you beat Kents without all
that work? Before you bought the Honda car you seldom won races. Now
you can.
Thanks for making my point - the Honda is a competitive advantage
that can only be overcome with highly tuned Kent engines and
professional routine maintenance.
Which is why so few show up at the Runoffs these days.
On 2022-09-18 06:38, -hh wrote:
On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 8:46:37 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 12:33:33 AM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
On 2022-09-17 13:40, Thomas E. wrote:
On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 10:59:18 AM UTC-4, Alan wrote:Nope.
On 2022-09-15 05:38, Thomas E. wrote:
On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 1:04:58 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote: >>>>>>> On 2022-09-13 05:03, Thomas E. wrote:And as usual, you're trying to spin the conversation to a new topic >>>>> when you're losing on your original point, Liarboy.
No, Liarboy;Doug Floer set the FF track record in idea conditions inAlan, you totally miss the point - again. You again admit
May—with his fresh Loyning engine (with a 4-2-1 long header >>>>>>>>> setup which is ideal for Mission's slow corner layout)—at >>>>>>>>> 1:10.533. Doug's car is also set up and cared for by a
professional race car prep shop owned by his
brother-in-law.
In July, I set my personal best time of 1:10.833 seconds. >>>>>>>>>
Sorry, but as much as you desperately want to believe it, >>>>>>>>> Liarboy, my performance in the car cannot be put down to my >>>>>>>>> having a Honda and the other drivers all having tired old >>>>>>>>> Kents.
:-)
that it takes significant expense and effort to maintain a
Kent. You admit that Floer needed a fresh Kent from a "great" >>>>>>>> builder to set the track record. Your Honda, far from fresh, >>>>>>>> nearly matched that record.
Face it Liarboy, the Kent's power fades with track time. The >>>>>>>> Kent is competitive only when it's fresh from a rebuild and >>>>>>>> set up by experts. You have a competitive advantage.
YOU don't get it.
Yes: to set a track record you need a good engine in a good car >>>>>>> with good tires...
...with a good driver.
You have attempted to suggest that my success on the track is >>>>>>> down to having a Honda and that as a driver I'm really not that >>>>>>> good.
But I nearly matched the lap record, Liarboy.
Having a Honda alone couldn't have made that happen.
And you don't get it either. Was your Honda set up with special >>>>>> headers and freshly overhauled? I think not. You are a
better-than-average driver in the SCCBC context, I'll give you
that. But the consistent high performance of your de-rated engine >>>>>> gives you an inherent advantage across a season of racing.
Which is why you see so few Kent engines still in the Runoffs.
Wrong. You are trying to deflect from the facts. It took a specially >>>> prepared Kent engine to set a Mission FF record lap. Anything less
would have been slower.
You're trying to deflect from the fact that you claim the only reason >>> I'm fast is that I have a Honda...
...when I've just shown you conclusively that a Honda alone won't make >>> one fast.
Actually you just showed me that to compete with a Honda the Kent needs >> to be freshly prepped and with an exhaust system specially tuned for the track.
Quote:
"Doug Floer set the FF track record in idea conditions in
May—with his fresh Loyning engine (with a 4-2-1 long header
setup which is ideal for Mission's slow corner layout)—at
1:10.533. Doug's car is also set up and cared for by a
professional race car prep shop owned by his
brother-in-law."
Do you have a prep shop and a fresh engine? No, you don't need special
prep on your Honda engine. Can you beat Kents without all that work?
Before you bought the Honda car you seldom won races. Now you can.
Alan also got a new chassis in that change too.Yup! And it's a pretty good chassis, too!
Of course, Doug's was very nearly as new as mine...
...and was a wide track (faster)...
...set up by a professional prep shop.
:-)
Thanks for making my point - the Honda is a competitive advantage that
can only be overcome with highly tuned Kent engines and professional
routine maintenance.
That is an off-track advantage, not on-track, so what Alan said about HondaCorrect. In fact, it is widely accepted that at certain tracks (long straightaways), the Honda is still at a DISadvantage.
not having an advantage on the track is 100% correct.
Which is why so few show up at the Runoffs these days.
It controls costs, which is not an insignificant factor for hobbyists. Even when it doesn’t give you the best on-track performance.Precisely.
Even the high-end teams have budgetary limits and...
...far, FAR, more importantly...
...limits on their available TIME.
There are nearly always things you'd could be doing to go faster, if
only you had more time to do them...
...more time for testing...
...more time for setup changes...
etc.
On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 1:53:40 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
On 2022-09-18 06:38, -hh wrote:
On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 8:46:37 AM UTC-4, Thomas E.Yup! And it's a pretty good chassis, too!
wrote:
On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 12:33:33 AM UTC-4, Alan
wrote:
On 2022-09-17 13:40, Thomas E. wrote:
On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 10:59:18 AM UTC-4, AlanNope.
wrote:
On 2022-09-15 05:38, Thomas E. wrote:
On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 1:04:58 PM UTC-4,And as usual, you're trying to spin the conversation to a
Alan wrote:
On 2022-09-13 05:03, Thomas E. wrote:
No, Liarboy;Doug Floer set the FF track record in ideaAlan, you totally miss the point - again. You again
conditions in May—with his fresh Loyning engine
(with a 4-2-1 long header setup which is ideal
for Mission's slow corner layout)—at 1:10.533.
Doug's car is also set up and cared for by a
professional race car prep shop owned by his
brother-in-law.
In July, I set my personal best time of 1:10.833
seconds.
Sorry, but as much as you desperately want to
believe it, Liarboy, my performance in the car
cannot be put down to my having a Honda and the
other drivers all having tired old Kents.
:-)
admit that it takes significant expense and effort
to maintain a Kent. You admit that Floer needed a
fresh Kent from a "great" builder to set the track
record. Your Honda, far from fresh, nearly matched
that record.
Face it Liarboy, the Kent's power fades with track
time. The Kent is competitive only when it's fresh
from a rebuild and set up by experts. You have a
competitive advantage.
YOU don't get it.
Yes: to set a track record you need a good engine in
a good car with good tires...
...with a good driver.
You have attempted to suggest that my success on the
track is down to having a Honda and that as a driver
I'm really not that good.
But I nearly matched the lap record, Liarboy.
Having a Honda alone couldn't have made that happen.
And you don't get it either. Was your Honda set up with
special headers and freshly overhauled? I think not.
You are a better-than-average driver in the SCCBC
context, I'll give you that. But the consistent high
performance of your de-rated engine gives you an
inherent advantage across a season of racing.
Which is why you see so few Kent engines still in the
Runoffs.
new topic when you're losing on your original point,
Liarboy.
Wrong. You are trying to deflect from the facts. It took a
specially prepared Kent engine to set a Mission FF record
lap. Anything less would have been slower.
You're trying to deflect from the fact that you claim the
only reason I'm fast is that I have a Honda...
...when I've just shown you conclusively that a Honda alone
won't make one fast.
Actually you just showed me that to compete with a Honda the
Kent needs to be freshly prepped and with an exhaust system
specially tuned for the track.
Quote: "Doug Floer set the FF track record in idea conditions
in May—with his fresh Loyning engine (with a 4-2-1 long header
setup which is ideal for Mission's slow corner layout)—at
1:10.533. Doug's car is also set up and cared for by a
professional race car prep shop owned by his brother-in-law."
Do you have a prep shop and a fresh engine? No, you don't need
special prep on your Honda engine. Can you beat Kents without
all that work? Before you bought the Honda car you seldom won
races. Now you can.
Alan also got a new chassis in that change too.
Of course, Doug's was very nearly as new as mine...
...and was a wide track (faster)...
...set up by a professional prep shop.
:-)
Correct. In fact, it is widely accepted that at certain tracks
Thanks for making my point - the Honda is a competitive
advantage that can only be overcome with highly tuned Kent
engines and professional routine maintenance.
That is an off-track advantage, not on-track, so what Alan said
about Honda not having an advantage on the track is 100%
correct.
(long straightaways), the Honda is still at a DISadvantage.
Precisely.
Which is why so few show up at the Runoffs these days.
It controls costs, which is not an insignificant factor for
hobbyists. Even when it doesn’t give you the best on-track
performance.
Even the high-end teams have budgetary limits and...
...far, FAR, more importantly...
...limits on their available TIME.
There are nearly always things you'd could be doing to go faster,
if only you had more time to do them...
...more time for testing...
...more time for setup changes...
etc.
Alan, you are not making any sense. If the Honda is at a disadvantage
WHY WHY WHY do they so well compared to the Kent at the top level of
the SCCA races. At this level the teams have choices. At Indy last
year, a track with a long straightaway, there were 22 finishers. The
top Kent was 16th, almost 1:48 off the pace and 6 seconds slower for
fastest lap.
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/058/920/FF%20Runoffs2021%20Race%20Official.pdf?1633281509
Pretty much the same relative positions in the small 2020 field.
file:///C:/Users/tom_e/Downloads/FF%20Runoffs2020%20Race%20Official.pdf
If the Honda is at a performance disadvantage some teams with
funding would take advantage of that and show up with a Kent that has
a performance advantage. Not happening, even at the top level of the
sport.
Alan, please supply results for top level races where the Kents are competitive with Honda. Please supply statistics showing that the
Kent has a performance advantage on the track.
Lacking that evidence you are lying. I look forward to being proven
wrong with evidence, not just words.
Alan, please supply results for top level races where the Kents are competitive with Honda. Please supply statistics showing that the Kent has a performance advantage on the track.
Lacking that evidence you are lying. I look forward to being proven wrong with evidence, not just word.
On 2022-09-21 07:26, Thomas E. wrote:
Alan, please supply results for top level races where the Kents are competitive with Honda. Please supply statistics showing that the Kent has a performance advantage on the track.
Lacking that evidence you are lying. I look forward to being proven wrong with evidence, not just word.
'If you are keeping up to the F1600 Series, we have 2 poles and 2 podium finishes in the last 3 races using a DB6.'
That would be these results from...
Pittsburgh International Race Complex, June 3-5, 2022
Qualifying result
(position, car number, driver, time, difference to pole, car):
5 3 Jonathan Lee 1:47.630 0.754 Swift DB6/Ford
<https://assets-global.website-files.com/5e6065f5b2e7eb0f83419949/629b806715e0656da9d3c034_F16%20Q1%20for%20R1-2.pdf>
Race 2 result
(position, car number, driver, laps, best lap, car)
3 3 Jonathan Lee 14 1:47.457 Swift DB6/Ford
<https://assets-global.website-files.com/5e6065f5b2e7eb0f83419949/629cdf8532efec0af247c105_F16%20Provisional%20R2%20Results.pdf>
Race 2 result
(position, car number, driver, laps, best lap, car)
4 3 Jonathan Lee 13 1:48.022 Swift DB6/Ford
<https://assets-global.website-files.com/5e6065f5b2e7eb0f83419949/629d2a121dfa80228f1ae32f_f16%20Provisional%20R3%20Results.pdf>
Summit Point, August 19-21
Qualifying result
(position, car number, driver, time, car):
1 3 Jonathan Lee 1:15.832 Swift DB6/Ford
<https://assets-global.website-files.com/5e6065f5b2e7eb0f83419949/630008d2308db5f1163aa6a7_F16%20%20Q1%20for%20R1.pdf>
Race 1 result
(position, car number, driver, laps, best lap, car)
3 3 Jonathan Lee 17 1:16.973 Swift DB6/Ford
(0.281 seconds behind the winner, BTW)
<https://assets-global.website-files.com/5e6065f5b2e7eb0f83419949/630160b0d14c085b1607728f_F16%20Provisional%20R1%20Results.pdf>
Race 1 result
(position, car number, driver, laps, best lap, car)
3 3 Jonathan Lee 17 1:16.862 Swift DB6/Ford
(0.364 seconds behind the winner, BTW)
<https://assets-global.website-files.com/5e6065f5b2e7eb0f83419949/63029e98640ea77c1c5a5ea2_F16%20Provisional%20R3%20Results%20WITH%20penalty.pdf>
How's that, Liarboy?
On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 4:20:56 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:Race 2 result
On 2022-09-21 07:26, Thomas E. wrote:
Alan, please supply results for top level races where the Kents
are competitive with Honda. Please supply statistics showing that
the Kent has a performance advantage on the track.
Lacking that evidence you are lying. I look forward to being
proven wrong with evidence, not just word.
'If you are keeping up to the F1600 Series, we have 2 poles and 2
podium finishes in the last 3 races using a DB6.'
That would be these results from...
Pittsburgh International Race Complex, June 3-5, 2022
Qualifying result (position, car number, driver, time, difference
to pole, car):
5 3 Jonathan Lee 1:47.630 0.754 Swift DB6/Ford
<https://assets-global.website-files.com/5e6065f5b2e7eb0f83419949/629b806715e0656da9d3c034_F16%20Q1%20for%20R1-2.pdf>
Race 2 result(position, car number, driver, laps, best lap, car)
3 3 Jonathan Lee 14 1:47.457 Swift DB6/Ford
<https://assets-global.website-files.com/5e6065f5b2e7eb0f83419949/629cdf8532efec0af247c105_F16%20Provisional%20R2%20Results.pdf>
Summit Point, August 19-21(position, car number, driver, laps, best lap, car)
4 3 Jonathan Lee 13 1:48.022 Swift DB6/Ford
<https://assets-global.website-files.com/5e6065f5b2e7eb0f83419949/629d2a121dfa80228f1ae32f_f16%20Provisional%20R3%20Results.pdf>
Race 1 result
Qualifying result (position, car number, driver, time, car):
1 3 Jonathan Lee 1:15.832 Swift DB6/Ford
<https://assets-global.website-files.com/5e6065f5b2e7eb0f83419949/630008d2308db5f1163aa6a7_F16%20%20Q1%20for%20R1.pdf>
Race 1 result(position, car number, driver, laps, best lap, car)
3 3 Jonathan Lee 17 1:16.973 Swift DB6/Ford (0.281 seconds behind
the winner, BTW)
<https://assets-global.website-files.com/5e6065f5b2e7eb0f83419949/630160b0d14c085b1607728f_F16%20Provisional%20R1%20Results.pdf>
(position, car number, driver, laps, best lap, car)
3 3 Jonathan Lee 17 1:16.862 Swift DB6/Ford (0.364 seconds behind
the winner, BTW)
<https://assets-global.website-files.com/5e6065f5b2e7eb0f83419949/63029e98640ea77c1c5a5ea2_F16%20Provisional%20R3%20Results%20WITH%20penalty.pdf>
How's that, Liarboy?
No go, show me all the race results. Besides, one fast car does not
make the Kent fleet out there competitive. Else why is there SO many
Hondas and so few Kents? It's obvious, all things considered team
prefer the Honda.
...
Besides, one fast car does not make the Kent fleet out there competitive.
Else why is there SO many Hondas and so few Kents? It's obvious, all things considered team prefer the Honda.
On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 11:16:39 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
...
Besides, one fast car does not make the Kent fleet out there competitive.
Yeah, it does.
Else why is there SO many Hondas and so few Kents? It's obvious, all things >> considered team prefer the Honda.
But an off-track preference doesn't change on-track competitiveness.
Quite frankly, it sounds like the handicappers did a great job of making
the two very equivalent (although lower HP ranges makes this easier).
On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 11:16:39 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
...
Besides, one fast car does not make the Kent fleet out there competitive.
Yeah, it does.
Else why is there SO many Hondas and so few Kents? It's obvious, all things >> considered team prefer the Honda.
But an off-track preference doesn't change on-track competitiveness.
Quite frankly, it sounds like the handicappers did a great job of making
the two very equivalent (although lower HP ranges makes this easier).
On 2022-09-22 02:27, -hh wrote:
On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 11:16:39 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
...
Besides, one fast car does not make the Kent fleet out there
competitive.
Yeah, it does.
Else why is there SO many Hondas and so few Kents? It's obvious, all
things
considered team prefer the Honda.
But an off-track preference doesn't change on-track competitiveness.
Quite frankly, it sounds like the handicappers did a great job of making
the two very equivalent (although lower HP ranges makes this easier).
And it just keeps getting worse:
'2. No later than September 30, 2022, Plaintiff shall submit a
declaration or affidavit that includes each of the following factual
matters:
a. A list of any specific items set forth in the Detailed Property
Inventory that Plaintiff asserts were not seized from the Premises on
August 8, 2022.
b. A list of any specific items set forth in the Detailed Property
Inventory that Plaintiff asserts were seized from the Premises on August
8, 2022, but as to which Plaintiff asserts that the Detailed Property Inventory’s description of contents or location within the Premises
where the item was found is incorrect.
c. A detailed list and description of any item that Plaintiff asserts
was seized from the Premises on August 8, 2022, but is not listed in the Detailed Property Inventory.
This submission shall be Plaintiff’s final opportunity to raise any
factual dispute as to the completeness and accuracy of the Detailed
Property Inventory.'
<https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/9/22/2124602/-Special-Master-Judge-Dearie-Issues-Order>
Put up or shut up, Donald.
On 2022-09-22 02:27, -hh wrote:
On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 11:16:39 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
...
Besides, one fast car does not make the Kent fleet out there competitive.
Yeah, it does.This is getting absurd.
I provided the lying asshole with PRECISELY what he asked for.
Else why is there SO many Hondas and so few Kents? It's obvious, all things
considered team prefer the Honda.
But an off-track preference doesn't change on-track competitiveness.
Quite frankly, it sounds like the handicappers did a great job of making the two very equivalent (although lower HP ranges makes this easier).This quote from the man who recorded those results sums it up pretty well: 'In Regards to the Ford vs. Honda Debate:
With my experience at FRP, the Ford engine competes well with no-expense spared Hondas. I have had no problem getting the job done with a ford
and actually prefer to use it on some tracks. I have a top-notch Honda,
so I think I'm qualified to make this statement.'
Which for any person of integrity would be the point at which he should concede he was wrong and get off it.
On 2022-09-22 15:16, Alan wrote:
On 2022-09-22 02:27, -hh wrote:
On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 11:16:39 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>> ...
Besides, one fast car does not make the Kent fleet out there
competitive.
Yeah, it does.
Else why is there SO many Hondas and so few Kents? It's obvious, all
things
considered team prefer the Honda.
But an off-track preference doesn't change on-track competitiveness.
Quite frankly, it sounds like the handicappers did a great job of making >> the two very equivalent (although lower HP ranges makes this easier).
And it just keeps getting worse:
'2. No later than September 30, 2022, Plaintiff shall submit a declaration or affidavit that includes each of the following factual matters:
a. A list of any specific items set forth in the Detailed Property Inventory that Plaintiff asserts were not seized from the Premises on August 8, 2022.
b. A list of any specific items set forth in the Detailed Property Inventory that Plaintiff asserts were seized from the Premises on August 8, 2022, but as to which Plaintiff asserts that the Detailed Property Inventory’s description of contents or location within the Premises where the item was found is incorrect.
c. A detailed list and description of any item that Plaintiff asserts
was seized from the Premises on August 8, 2022, but is not listed in the Detailed Property Inventory.
This submission shall be Plaintiff’s final opportunity to raise any factual dispute as to the completeness and accuracy of the Detailed Property Inventory.'
<https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/9/22/2124602/-Special-Master-Judge-Dearie-Issues-Order>
Put up or shut up, Donald.I have NO idea how I ended up putting this text here...
On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 7:26:31 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
On 2022-09-22 15:16, Alan wrote:
On 2022-09-22 02:27, -hh wrote:I have NO idea how I ended up putting this text here...
On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 11:16:39 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>> ...
Besides, one fast car does not make the Kent fleet out there
competitive.
Yeah, it does.
Else why is there SO many Hondas and so few Kents? It's obvious, all >>>>> things
considered team prefer the Honda.
But an off-track preference doesn't change on-track competitiveness.
Quite frankly, it sounds like the handicappers did a great job of making >>>> the two very equivalent (although lower HP ranges makes this easier).
And it just keeps getting worse:
'2. No later than September 30, 2022, Plaintiff shall submit a
declaration or affidavit that includes each of the following factual
matters:
a. A list of any specific items set forth in the Detailed Property
Inventory that Plaintiff asserts were not seized from the Premises on
August 8, 2022.
b. A list of any specific items set forth in the Detailed Property
Inventory that Plaintiff asserts were seized from the Premises on August >>> 8, 2022, but as to which Plaintiff asserts that the Detailed Property
Inventory’s description of contents or location within the Premises
where the item was found is incorrect.
c. A detailed list and description of any item that Plaintiff asserts
was seized from the Premises on August 8, 2022, but is not listed in the >>> Detailed Property Inventory.
This submission shall be Plaintiff’s final opportunity to raise any
factual dispute as to the completeness and accuracy of the Detailed
Property Inventory.'
<https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/9/22/2124602/-Special-Master-Judge-Dearie-Issues-Order>
Put up or shut up, Donald.
It's bashing Trump. You are a Trump-basher. So am I, but you copy so much of this stuff it's no surprise you forgot which group you were posting too.
On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 12:57:19 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
On 2022-09-22 02:27, -hh wrote:
On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 11:16:39 PM UTC-4, Thomas E.This is getting absurd.
wrote:
... Besides, one fast car does not make the Kent fleet out
there competitive.
Yeah, it does.
I provided the lying asshole with PRECISELY what he asked for.
This quote from the man who recorded those results sums it upElse why is there SO many Hondas and so few Kents? It's
obvious, all things considered team prefer the Honda.
But an off-track preference doesn't change on-track
competitiveness.
Quite frankly, it sounds like the handicappers did a great job of
making the two very equivalent (although lower HP ranges makes
this easier).
pretty well: 'In Regards to the Ford vs. Honda Debate:
With my experience at FRP, the Ford engine competes well with
no-expense spared Hondas. I have had no problem getting the job
done with a ford and actually prefer to use it on some tracks. I
have a top-notch Honda, so I think I'm qualified to make this
statement.' Which for any person of integrity would be the point at
which he should concede he was wrong and get off it.
No you did not. One example, one car, does not prove that the Kent is comptetive. I also not that you did not supply actual race results
unless the Kent placed well.
On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 4:19:45 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
On 2022-09-23 13:07, Thomas E. wrote:
On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 12:57:19 PM UTC-4, AlanIt absolutely proves it in ON TRACK competitiveness, asshole.
wrote:
On 2022-09-22 02:27, -hh wrote:
On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 11:16:39 PM UTC-4, ThomasThis is getting absurd.
E. wrote:
... Besides, one fast car does not make the Kent fleet out
there competitive.
Yeah, it does.
I provided the lying asshole with PRECISELY what he asked for.
This quote from the man who recorded those results sums it upElse why is there SO many Hondas and so few Kents? It's
obvious, all things considered team prefer the Honda.
But an off-track preference doesn't change on-track
competitiveness.
Quite frankly, it sounds like the handicappers did a great
job of making the two very equivalent (although lower HP
ranges makes this easier).
pretty well: 'In Regards to the Ford vs. Honda Debate:
With my experience at FRP, the Ford engine competes well with
no-expense spared Hondas. I have had no problem getting the
job done with a ford and actually prefer to use it on some
tracks. I have a top-notch Honda, so I think I'm qualified to
make this statement.' Which for any person of integrity would
be the point at which he should concede he was wrong and get
off it.
No you did not. One example, one car, does not prove that the
Kent is comptetive. I also not that you did not supply actual
race results unless the Kent placed well.
And race results where a Kent placed well was PRECISELY WHAT YOU
ASKED FOR: "Alan, please supply results for top level races where
the Kents are competitive with Honda." You lying asshole.
I said results, that plural. This is one driver. Please supply
multiple drivers race, not qualifying, records who are competing and
winning against the Honda.
Anyway, the recent Runoff records say you are the lying asshole, not
me.
On 2022-09-23 13:07, Thomas E. wrote:
On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 12:57:19 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
On 2022-09-22 02:27, -hh wrote:
On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 11:16:39 PM UTC-4, Thomas E.This is getting absurd.
wrote:
... Besides, one fast car does not make the Kent fleet out
there competitive.
Yeah, it does.
I provided the lying asshole with PRECISELY what he asked for.
This quote from the man who recorded those results sums it upElse why is there SO many Hondas and so few Kents? It's
obvious, all things considered team prefer the Honda.
But an off-track preference doesn't change on-track
competitiveness.
Quite frankly, it sounds like the handicappers did a great job of
making the two very equivalent (although lower HP ranges makes
this easier).
pretty well: 'In Regards to the Ford vs. Honda Debate:
With my experience at FRP, the Ford engine competes well with
no-expense spared Hondas. I have had no problem getting the job
done with a ford and actually prefer to use it on some tracks. I
have a top-notch Honda, so I think I'm qualified to make this
statement.' Which for any person of integrity would be the point at
which he should concede he was wrong and get off it.
No you did not. One example, one car, does not prove that the Kent is comptetive. I also not that you did not supply actual race resultsIt absolutely proves it in ON TRACK competitiveness, asshole.
unless the Kent placed well.
And race results where a Kent placed well was PRECISELY WHAT YOU ASKED FOR: "Alan, please supply results for top level races where the Kents are competitive with Honda."
You lying asshole.
On 2022-09-23 15:41, Thomas E. wrote:
On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 4:19:45 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
On 2022-09-23 13:07, Thomas E. wrote:
On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 12:57:19 PM UTC-4, AlanIt absolutely proves it in ON TRACK competitiveness, asshole.
wrote:
On 2022-09-22 02:27, -hh wrote:
On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 11:16:39 PM UTC-4, ThomasThis is getting absurd.
E. wrote:
... Besides, one fast car does not make the Kent fleet out
there competitive.
Yeah, it does.
I provided the lying asshole with PRECISELY what he asked for.
This quote from the man who recorded those results sums it upElse why is there SO many Hondas and so few Kents? It's
obvious, all things considered team prefer the Honda.
But an off-track preference doesn't change on-track
competitiveness.
Quite frankly, it sounds like the handicappers did a great
job of making the two very equivalent (although lower HP
ranges makes this easier).
pretty well: 'In Regards to the Ford vs. Honda Debate:
With my experience at FRP, the Ford engine competes well with
no-expense spared Hondas. I have had no problem getting the
job done with a ford and actually prefer to use it on some
tracks. I have a top-notch Honda, so I think I'm qualified to
make this statement.' Which for any person of integrity would
be the point at which he should concede he was wrong and get
off it.
No you did not. One example, one car, does not prove that the
Kent is comptetive. I also not that you did not supply actual
race results unless the Kent placed well.
And race results where a Kent placed well was PRECISELY WHAT YOU
ASKED FOR: "Alan, please supply results for top level races where
the Kents are competitive with Honda." You lying asshole.
I said results, that plural. This is one driver. Please supplyKeep niggling it to death, asshole.
multiple drivers race, not qualifying, records who are competing and winning against the Honda.
Anyway, the recent Runoff records say you are the lying asshole, notNope.
me.
A single counterexample shows that a Kent is competitive on the track,
and since you've been arguing that it is the Honda that is responsible
for my speed ON THE TRACK, you lost long ago.
You just lack the character to admit it.
Show I call you "despicable" now, Liarboy?
Well, there were definitely lows and highs this past weekend.
I started off on a low, when I got all the way out to Abbotsford to hook
up to my tow vehicle... ...and realized that I'd forgotten to transfer
my garage and trailer keys to my tow vehicle when I moved over my racing gear.
Then I went to the track and I was buoyed back up by the fact that my friend, Keith (from whom I rent the garage for the car) had his keys to
the garage and the spare key for my trailer hitch lock was hanging up inside.
So back to Abbotsford with very little time to spare to hook up the
trailer and make registration... ...which became an impossibility when I accidentally dropped the nose of the trailer off the ball. The time it
would take to get it back onto the ball would have meant arriving after registration had close for Saturday.
But there was still Sunday, and since I'd registered in two classes in
two separate groups (as a Formula F in Open Wheel 2 and as a Formula
Libre running without the restrictor in Open Wheel 1), I was still going
to get a decent amount of track time.
From there, the weekend unfolded... ...decently.
I went out for qualifying for Formula F and after helping a friend learn
the lines, I set out to do my own best lap... ...only to discover that
the gasoline that seemed to be on my dipstick was just from the foam in
the fuel cell being moist. So I didn't turn any truly representative
times, but somewhat fortunately, no one else turned much of a lap and I ended up second on the grid.
In Formula Libre, after pulling the restrictor, my best time was
1:14.722; good enough that I was in front of two FCs that still had a 15-20hp advantage on me and wings as well. But after looking at my
tires, I realized I had over-compensated for the ambient temperature and once up to race pace, the tires were too crowned.
For the first Formula F race of the day, I drop the tire pressures by
2psi (to 11psi front and 13psi rear), and my best race lap was 1:13.958; better than I'd run despite once again having a restrictor to limit the power to the level of the Kent. I won the race by more than 49 seconds, although if the new guy, Rob (running the stickier Hoosier Club Ford
tire to my American Racers), hadn't had to brake problems, I think he
and I would have had a terrific battle for the win.
In the first Open Wheel 1 race on Sunday, I knew I was just out there to have a good time. In all honesty, 130hp and no wings for added downforce
was simply not going to match up to the 145-150hp and wings of the FCs;
to say nothing of the guy in his F1000 motorcycle-engined car (a car of
that class holds our outright lap record) turning laps in about 1:05.
But I still think I gave a good account of myself. At the end of the
race, there were still to FCs behind me, neither of whom managed to turn
a faster lap than my best.
Then it all came apart again.
While putting the restrictor back into the car for the second Open Wheel
2, Formula F race, I managed to drop a bolt down the front of the engine into the same area as the belt for the oil scavenge pump and alternator
and the search for it took me past the time I had to get the car to
pre-grid in time for the race. And with the race that really mattered to
me no longer a possibility, I simply decided that running the car with a bolt loose in the engine bay near exposed, vital components wasn't worth
the risk of going out for the final Formula Libre race in Open Wheel 1.
Rob, who'd had braking problems that put him out of contention in the
first race of the day, did make the second race after finding some
o-rings that would cure his brake caliper leak, and his best lap of that race was just a whisker faster than my best lap of the first race of the day; just 15 thousandths of a second faster. But he was on the Hoosier
Club Ford tire and the consensus seems to be that they are about a 1.5-2 second advantage around our track.
So a foreshortened weekend...
...purely my own fault...
...but still a lot of fun.
Others were far less lucky.
Erle's weekend ended during qualifying for race 1 on Saturday, when—out
of the blue, his car snapped viciously to the left while braking for
turn 1, and he hit the wall hard. No damage to him, but his Tiga is
going to need a LOT of repair; both front suspensions, the front mounted radiator, parts of the rear end, bodywork. It was a bit of a mess. But
the construction of the car did its job and he walked away with nothing
but sore thumbs from being unable to get his hands away from the
steering wheel quickly enough.
One of our newly graduated novices, Courtenay, never got to race a
single session on Sunday, as the car she is sharing with its owner
suffered an engine problem while he, Don, was running the car on
Saturday to complete his novice program.
My good friend Pierre, whom I beat in qualifying despite him being in FC
to my FF (unrestricted) but still...
...he lost the car coming out of turn 9 and ended up going backwards
into the inside wall at about 85mph. Once again, the damage to the car wasn't good, but the driver was completely fine.
The new drivers in FF bode well for the coming year, and once we all
come to a consensus about what tires to run, I think we're going to get
some good racing for everyone.
:-)
On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 6:58:09 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
On 2022-09-23 15:41, Thomas E. wrote:
On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 4:19:45 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:Keep niggling it to death, asshole.
On 2022-09-23 13:07, Thomas E. wrote:
On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 12:57:19 PM UTC-4, AlanIt absolutely proves it in ON TRACK competitiveness, asshole.
wrote:
On 2022-09-22 02:27, -hh wrote:
On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 11:16:39 PM UTC-4,This is getting absurd.
Thomas E. wrote:
... Besides, one fast car does not make the Kent fleet
out there competitive.
Yeah, it does.
I provided the lying asshole with PRECISELY what he asked
for.
This quote from the man who recorded those results sums itElse why is there SO many Hondas and so few Kents?
It's obvious, all things considered team prefer the
Honda.
But an off-track preference doesn't change on-track
competitiveness.
Quite frankly, it sounds like the handicappers did a
great job of making the two very equivalent (although
lower HP ranges makes this easier).
up pretty well: 'In Regards to the Ford vs. Honda Debate:
With my experience at FRP, the Ford engine competes well
with no-expense spared Hondas. I have had no problem
getting the job done with a ford and actually prefer to use
it on some tracks. I have a top-notch Honda, so I think I'm
qualified to make this statement.' Which for any person of
integrity would be the point at which he should concede he
was wrong and get off it.
No you did not. One example, one car, does not prove that
the Kent is comptetive. I also not that you did not supply
actual race results unless the Kent placed well.
And race results where a Kent placed well was PRECISELY WHAT
YOU ASKED FOR: "Alan, please supply results for top level races
where the Kents are competitive with Honda." You lying
asshole.
I said results, that plural. This is one driver. Please supply
multiple drivers race, not qualifying, records who are competing
and winning against the Honda.
Nope.
Anyway, the recent Runoff records say you are the lying asshole,
not me.
A single counterexample shows that a Kent is competitive on the
track, and since you've been arguing that it is the Honda that is
responsible for my speed ON THE TRACK, you lost long ago.
You just lack the character to admit it.
Show I call you "despicable" now, Liarboy?
LOL. Despicable = finding a single exception to support a general
argument about differences in relative race car performance and
generalizing that lone exception to a very different set of
competitors.
You just lack the character to admit you are wrong.
Anyway, how is all this even relevant? You have pretty much dropped
out of racing. 4 races run last year and 3 this year. The season ends
in October. You are no longer competing in any meaningful sense.
Please don't offer lame excuses.
On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 7:34:52 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
Well, there were definitely lows and highs this past weekend.
I started off on a low, when I got all the way out to Abbotsford to hook
up to my tow vehicle... ...and realized that I'd forgotten to transfer
my garage and trailer keys to my tow vehicle when I moved over my racing
gear.
Then I went to the track and I was buoyed back up by the fact that my
friend, Keith (from whom I rent the garage for the car) had his keys to
the garage and the spare key for my trailer hitch lock was hanging up
inside.
So back to Abbotsford with very little time to spare to hook up the
trailer and make registration... ...which became an impossibility when I
accidentally dropped the nose of the trailer off the ball. The time it
would take to get it back onto the ball would have meant arriving after
registration had close for Saturday.
But there was still Sunday, and since I'd registered in two classes in
two separate groups (as a Formula F in Open Wheel 2 and as a Formula
Libre running without the restrictor in Open Wheel 1), I was still going
to get a decent amount of track time.
From there, the weekend unfolded... ...decently.
I went out for qualifying for Formula F and after helping a friend learn
the lines, I set out to do my own best lap... ...only to discover that
the gasoline that seemed to be on my dipstick was just from the foam in
the fuel cell being moist. So I didn't turn any truly representative
times, but somewhat fortunately, no one else turned much of a lap and I
ended up second on the grid.
In Formula Libre, after pulling the restrictor, my best time was
1:14.722; good enough that I was in front of two FCs that still had a
15-20hp advantage on me and wings as well. But after looking at my
tires, I realized I had over-compensated for the ambient temperature and
once up to race pace, the tires were too crowned.
For the first Formula F race of the day, I drop the tire pressures by
2psi (to 11psi front and 13psi rear), and my best race lap was 1:13.958;
better than I'd run despite once again having a restrictor to limit the
power to the level of the Kent. I won the race by more than 49 seconds,
although if the new guy, Rob (running the stickier Hoosier Club Ford
tire to my American Racers), hadn't had to brake problems, I think he
and I would have had a terrific battle for the win.
In the first Open Wheel 1 race on Sunday, I knew I was just out there to
have a good time. In all honesty, 130hp and no wings for added downforce
was simply not going to match up to the 145-150hp and wings of the FCs;
to say nothing of the guy in his F1000 motorcycle-engined car (a car of
that class holds our outright lap record) turning laps in about 1:05.
But I still think I gave a good account of myself. At the end of the
race, there were still to FCs behind me, neither of whom managed to turn
a faster lap than my best.
Then it all came apart again.
While putting the restrictor back into the car for the second Open Wheel
2, Formula F race, I managed to drop a bolt down the front of the engine
into the same area as the belt for the oil scavenge pump and alternator
and the search for it took me past the time I had to get the car to
pre-grid in time for the race. And with the race that really mattered to
me no longer a possibility, I simply decided that running the car with a
bolt loose in the engine bay near exposed, vital components wasn't worth
the risk of going out for the final Formula Libre race in Open Wheel 1.
Rob, who'd had braking problems that put him out of contention in the
first race of the day, did make the second race after finding some
o-rings that would cure his brake caliper leak, and his best lap of that
race was just a whisker faster than my best lap of the first race of the
day; just 15 thousandths of a second faster. But he was on the Hoosier
Club Ford tire and the consensus seems to be that they are about a 1.5-2
second advantage around our track.
So a foreshortened weekend...
...purely my own fault...
...but still a lot of fun.
Others were far less lucky.
Erle's weekend ended during qualifying for race 1 on Saturday, when—out
of the blue, his car snapped viciously to the left while braking for
turn 1, and he hit the wall hard. No damage to him, but his Tiga is
going to need a LOT of repair; both front suspensions, the front mounted
radiator, parts of the rear end, bodywork. It was a bit of a mess. But
the construction of the car did its job and he walked away with nothing
but sore thumbs from being unable to get his hands away from the
steering wheel quickly enough.
One of our newly graduated novices, Courtenay, never got to race a
single session on Sunday, as the car she is sharing with its owner
suffered an engine problem while he, Don, was running the car on
Saturday to complete his novice program.
My good friend Pierre, whom I beat in qualifying despite him being in FC
to my FF (unrestricted) but still...
...he lost the car coming out of turn 9 and ended up going backwards
into the inside wall at about 85mph. Once again, the damage to the car
wasn't good, but the driver was completely fine.
The new drivers in FF bode well for the coming year, and once we all
come to a consensus about what tires to run, I think we're going to get
some good racing for everyone.
:-)
3 races run this year. That's a low. Apparently you have almost totally lost interest.
On 2022-09-25 08:55, Thomas E. wrote:
On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 6:58:09 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
On 2022-09-23 15:41, Thomas E. wrote:
On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 4:19:45 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:Keep niggling it to death, asshole.
On 2022-09-23 13:07, Thomas E. wrote:
On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 12:57:19 PM UTC-4, AlanIt absolutely proves it in ON TRACK competitiveness, asshole.
wrote:
On 2022-09-22 02:27, -hh wrote:
On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 11:16:39 PM UTC-4,This is getting absurd.
Thomas E. wrote:
... Besides, one fast car does not make the Kent fleet
out there competitive.
Yeah, it does.
I provided the lying asshole with PRECISELY what he asked
for.
This quote from the man who recorded those results sums itElse why is there SO many Hondas and so few Kents?
It's obvious, all things considered team prefer the
Honda.
But an off-track preference doesn't change on-track
competitiveness.
Quite frankly, it sounds like the handicappers did a
great job of making the two very equivalent (although
lower HP ranges makes this easier).
up pretty well: 'In Regards to the Ford vs. Honda Debate:
With my experience at FRP, the Ford engine competes well
with no-expense spared Hondas. I have had no problem
getting the job done with a ford and actually prefer to use
it on some tracks. I have a top-notch Honda, so I think I'm
qualified to make this statement.' Which for any person of
integrity would be the point at which he should concede he
was wrong and get off it.
No you did not. One example, one car, does not prove that
the Kent is comptetive. I also not that you did not supply
actual race results unless the Kent placed well.
And race results where a Kent placed well was PRECISELY WHAT
YOU ASKED FOR: "Alan, please supply results for top level races
where the Kents are competitive with Honda." You lying
asshole.
I said results, that plural. This is one driver. Please supply
multiple drivers race, not qualifying, records who are competing
and winning against the Honda.
Nope.
Anyway, the recent Runoff records say you are the lying asshole,
not me.
A single counterexample shows that a Kent is competitive on the
track, and since you've been arguing that it is the Honda that is
responsible for my speed ON THE TRACK, you lost long ago.
You just lack the character to admit it.
Show I call you "despicable" now, Liarboy?
LOL. Despicable = finding a single exception to support a generalYou really are the asshole here, Liarboy.
argument about differences in relative race car performance and generalizing that lone exception to a very different set of
competitors.
Your argument is that the only thing that makes me the second fastest
driver ever at Mission...
(faster than both Alan McColl and SCCA champion Rick Payne)
..is the fact that I run a Honda...
..because you contend that the Honda's performance ON THE TRACK is
superior to the Kent's...
..and as support for that contention, you point to the fact that top
teams now almost exclusively use the Honda...
..and you asked for results that show the Kent can still compete...
..which I provided.
You just lack the character to admit you are wrong.
Anyway, how is all this even relevant? You have pretty much dropped
out of racing. 4 races run last year and 3 this year. The season ends
in October. You are no longer competing in any meaningful sense.
Please don't offer lame excuses.I've had things going on in my life that are a little more important
than racing.
On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 1:04:08 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:
On 2022-09-25 08:55, Thomas E. wrote:
On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 6:58:09 PM UTC-4, Alan wrote:You really are the asshole here, Liarboy.
On 2022-09-23 15:41, Thomas E. wrote:
On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 4:19:45 PM UTC-4, AlanKeep niggling it to death, asshole.
wrote:
On 2022-09-23 13:07, Thomas E. wrote:
On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 12:57:19 PM UTC-4,It absolutely proves it in ON TRACK competitiveness,
Alan wrote:
On 2022-09-22 02:27, -hh wrote:
On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 11:16:39 PMThis is getting absurd.
UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
... Besides, one fast car does not make the Kent
fleet out there competitive.
Yeah, it does.
I provided the lying asshole with PRECISELY what he
asked for.
This quote from the man who recorded those results sumsElse why is there SO many Hondas and so few Kents?
It's obvious, all things considered team prefer
the Honda.
But an off-track preference doesn't change on-track
competitiveness.
Quite frankly, it sounds like the handicappers did a
great job of making the two very equivalent
(although lower HP ranges makes this easier).
it up pretty well: 'In Regards to the Ford vs. Honda
Debate:
With my experience at FRP, the Ford engine competes
well with no-expense spared Hondas. I have had no
problem getting the job done with a ford and actually
prefer to use it on some tracks. I have a top-notch
Honda, so I think I'm qualified to make this
statement.' Which for any person of integrity would be
the point at which he should concede he was wrong and
get off it.
No you did not. One example, one car, does not prove
that the Kent is comptetive. I also not that you did not
supply actual race results unless the Kent placed well.
asshole.
And race results where a Kent placed well was PRECISELY
WHAT YOU ASKED FOR: "Alan, please supply results for top
level races where the Kents are competitive with Honda."
You lying asshole.
I said results, that plural. This is one driver. Please
supply multiple drivers race, not qualifying, records who are
competing and winning against the Honda.
Nope.
Anyway, the recent Runoff records say you are the lying
asshole, not me.
A single counterexample shows that a Kent is competitive on
the track, and since you've been arguing that it is the Honda
that is responsible for my speed ON THE TRACK, you lost long
ago.
You just lack the character to admit it.
Show I call you "despicable" now, Liarboy?
LOL. Despicable = finding a single exception to support a
general argument about differences in relative race car
performance and generalizing that lone exception to a very
different set of competitors.
Your argument is that the only thing that makes me the second
fastest driver ever at Mission...
(faster than both Alan McColl and SCCA champion Rick Payne)
..is the fact that I run a Honda...
..because you contend that the Honda's performance ON THE TRACK is
superior to the Kent's...
..and as support for that contention, you point to the fact that
top teams now almost exclusively use the Honda...
..and you asked for results that show the Kent can still
compete...
..which I provided.
I've had things going on in my life that are a little more
You just lack the character to admit you are wrong.
Anyway, how is all this even relevant? You have pretty much
dropped out of racing. 4 races run last year and 3 this year. The
season ends in October. You are no longer competing in any
meaningful sense.
Please don't offer lame excuses.
important than racing.
You provided one lone example. I never said the Kent cannot compete.
I said the Kent is no longer competitive. That's actually different.
Let me provide another example, this one closer to home.
BEMC Late Summer Trophy Races, 17 September 2022, Canadian Tire
Motorsport Park, F1600. There were 15 Hondas and 14 Kents entered.
Unlike the Runoffs where there are few Kents entered in recent years,
a good sample size of each. Almost 50-50 to be exact.
The results:
https://www.casc.on.ca/sites/default/files/Documents/BEMC2%20Results%202022.pdf
The 15 Honda cars dominated qualifying, taking the top 11 positions
out of 29. The remaining Hondas took positions 16, 18, 21 and 25. The
best Kent was 2.16 seconds off the pace.
Honda took the top 8 positions in the race. The Kents all finished
9th or worse. The top Kent was 6.9 seconds off the leader. The
majority of the Kents, and to be fair, some Hondas, were 20 or more
seconds off the pace.
In this event as a group the Kents were not competitive. Just like
SCCBC Runoffs, but with many more Kents entered, thus a better
example.
The evidence strongly supports the Kent engine is no longer
competitive in the real world. Yes, you can win a race with a Kent,
but the odds are not good. If in it to win, bet on the Honda.
So, you admit that racing is no longer the priority it was as late as
2019. I believe that. I do not believe that the Honda is not an
advantage measured against the Kent as a standard. There is simply
too much evidence to the contrary.
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