So, now and then I wonder about the other side, what if I actually tried to switch to Windows? Could it work?
I mean, the obvious answer is no, since even if we disregard our advocacy bullet points, we're talking about 37 years of Mac usage, and that kind of history really do create a way you are used to "how things work".
...
So the only reason to even contemplate this for the sake of contemplating this is gaming of course - the only thing Windows actually does better. I have a gaming computer in my office, but I do think about how it could be if that also was my work computer. I don't know, I'm probably just fantasising, it's late here in Sweden :)
On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 4:47:41 PM UTC-4, Sandman wrote:
So, now and then I wonder about the other side, what if I actually tried to switch to Windows? Could it work?For some level of "work", sure. Just like using a screw driver when you
don't have a paint can opener ... or a hammer /s
I mean, the obvious answer is no, since even if we disregard our advocacy bullet points, we're talking about 37 years of Mac usage, and that kind of history really do create a way you are used to "how things work".
...
Understandable. I was just thinking about Lloyd Parsons this past week, as I had a Buick SUV as my rental ... an Envision, I think. I found the first few days
with it to be downright irritating, as its controls (steering especially) was just
set up to be "too light" for my preferences. Sure it was "easy" to steer the SUV,
but it did so with very minimal feedback which made it harder overall.
So the only reason to even contemplate this for the sake of contemplating this is gaming of course - the only thing Windows actually does better. I have a gaming computer in my office, but I do think about how it could be ifUnderstood. I've got a Windows PC in a moving box from some cleanup work,
that also was my work computer. I don't know, I'm probably just fantasising,
it's late here in Sweden :)
and I'll hopefully find where my brother "hid" the admin password one of these
weeks so that I can actually manage it...until I get that piece of info, its not really
worth unboxing - - its potentially just a candidate to be broken down for a few parts.
Meantime, I have an M1 mini to get set up when I have a few moments as well; looking at refurbishing a lot of stuff while I'm installing a new WiFi 6 system when
the fall weather turns and I can't do outside maintenance chores.
-hh
So, now and then I wonder about the other side, what if I actually tried to switch to Windows? Could it work?
I mean, the obvious answer is no, since even if we disregard our advocacy bullet points, we're talking about 37 years of Mac usage, and that kind of history really do create a way you are used to "how things work".
My main development tool is PHPStorm, which is a java application and runs on Windows as well, naturally. On top of that, I just need a web browser and a web server. Now, Apache+mariadDB can be installed on Windows, but I would think that a safer bet would be Docker for that. So in theory my main development environment could be more or less replicated on Windows.
So then there is the system, while MacOS and Windows certainly have different approaches to a great number of things, most of that amounts to relearning stuff and conventions I guess.
But in the end, Windows is no Unix, and the Unix underpinnings of OSX is freaking awesome to have at your disposal. And while relearning how virtual desktops work or how you install and uninstall applications is one thing - yanking out some 30+ years of unix and linux conditioning isn't an easy task. It's like moving from emacs to vim, really. Nothing is the same, or even similar.
And then there's all the little details, things you never think about. Something like the Automator app, that can create big workflows out of GUI applications.
For instance, I have a "Upload reciept" action when I print a
document, that uploads the reciepts to my web server, saves it in a database and gives me the option of filling out information about it. AppleScript may not be modern or even easy to use, but when it does work, it's pretty awesome.
If I hit F19 on my keyboard, an applescript goes through a list of
apps and if any one of them is running, plays or pauses it. So I can listen to music on Spotify, watch Netflix, youtube, whatever and I hit that button and it pauses. For the record, yes the Apple keyboard does have a play/pause button but the app has to support it, and many do, but some don't. Hey AppleScript :)
So the only reason to even contemplate this for the sake of contemplating this is gaming of course - the only thing Windows actually does better. I have a gaming computer in my office, but I do think about how it could be if that also was my work computer. I don't know, I'm probably just fantasising, it's late here in Sweden :)
So, now and then I wonder about the other side, what if I actually tried to switch to Windows? Could it work?
I mean, the obvious answer is no, since even if we disregard our advocacy bullet points, we're talking about 37 years of Mac usage, and that kind of history really do create a way you are used to "how things work".
My main development tool is PHPStorm, which is a java application and runs on
Windows as well, naturally. On top of that, I just need a web browser and a web server. Now, Apache+mariadDB can be installed on Windows, but I would think that a safer bet would be Docker for that. So in theory my main development environment could be more or less replicated on Windows.
So then there is the system, while MacOS and Windows certainly have different
approaches to a great number of things, most of that amounts to relearning stuff and conventions I guess.
But in the end, Windows is no Unix, and the Unix underpinnings of OSX is freaking awesome to have at your disposal. And while relearning how virtual desktops work or how you install and uninstall applications is one thing - yanking out some 30+ years of unix and linux conditioning isn't an easy task.
It's like moving from emacs to vim, really. Nothing is the same, or even similar.
And then there's all the little details, things you never think about. Something like the Automator app, that can create big workflows out of GUI applications. For instance, I have a "Upload reciept" action when I print a document, that uploads the reciepts to my web server, saves it in a database and gives me the option of filling out information about it. AppleScript may not be modern or even easy to use, but when it does work, it's pretty awesome. If I hit F19 on my keyboard, an applescript goes through a list of apps and if any one of them is running, plays or pauses it. So I can listen to music on Spotify, watch Netflix, youtube, whatever and I hit that button and it pauses. For the record, yes the Apple keyboard does have a play/pause button but the app has to support it, and many do, but some don't. Hey AppleScript :)
So the only reason to even contemplate this for the sake of contemplating this is gaming of course - the only thing Windows actually does better. I have a gaming computer in my office, but I do think about how it could be if that also was my work computer. I don't know, I'm probably just fantasising, it's late here in Sweden :)
--
Sandman
On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 4:47:41 PM UTC-4, Sandman wrote:
So, now and then I wonder about the other side, what if I actually tried to switch to Windows? Could it work?
I mean, the obvious answer is no, since even if we disregard our advocacy bullet points, we're talking about 37 years of Mac usage, and that kind of history really do create a way you are used to "how things work".
My main development tool is PHPStorm, which is a java application and runs on
Windows as well, naturally. On top of that, I just need a web browser and a web server. Now, Apache+mariadDB can be installed on Windows, but I would think that a safer bet would be Docker for that. So in theory my main development environment could be more or less replicated on Windows.
So then there is the system, while MacOS and Windows certainly have different
approaches to a great number of things, most of that amounts to relearning stuff and conventions I guess.
But in the end, Windows is no Unix, and the Unix underpinnings of OSX is freaking awesome to have at your disposal. And while relearning how virtual desktops work or how you install and uninstall applications is one thing - yanking out some 30+ years of unix and linux conditioning isn't an easy task.
It's like moving from emacs to vim, really. Nothing is the same, or even similar.
And then there's all the little details, things you never think about. Something like the Automator app, that can create big workflows out of GUI applications. For instance, I have a "Upload reciept" action when I print a document, that uploads the reciepts to my web server, saves it in a database
and gives me the option of filling out information about it. AppleScript may
not be modern or even easy to use, but when it does work, it's pretty awesome. If I hit F19 on my keyboard, an applescript goes through a list of apps and if any one of them is running, plays or pauses it. So I can listen to music on Spotify, watch Netflix, youtube, whatever and I hit that button and it pauses. For the record, yes the Apple keyboard does have a play/pause
button but the app has to support it, and many do, but some don't. Hey AppleScript :)
So the only reason to even contemplate this for the sake of contemplating this is gaming of course - the only thing Windows actually does better. I have a gaming computer in my office, but I do think about how it could be if
that also was my work computer. I don't know, I'm probably just fantasising,
it's late here in Sweden :)
So finally a rainy day here and some time I can call my own. It's been a month since I even looked at CSMA.
I've had very little experience with Mac OS, and found it frustrating. Not because it's
inherently difficult if it's what you are used to, but different from Windows. If you are
a Windows user Mac OS is not intuitive. You could obviously learn Windows, and it
would probably do almost anything a Mac can do, but it would take time and an open mind.
On the mobile/tablet platforms I transitioned to iOS from Android about 4 years ago.
It was a struggle for a few weeks. Android's settings are organized into a lot fewer top
level groups. Finding iOS setting was confusing at first, but 4 years later is "intuitive".
The iOS keyboard is not as good as Android, and the forms auto-input is much more limited.
I still find it frustrating that iOS does not seem to know my e-mail address and pop it up
every time I need it for a browser form.
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...
Windows has its own scripting language, but I have almost no experience with it. I've used
some scripts others wrote to perform maintenance tasks. Seems to work, but have no idea
how it compares to the Mac equivalent.
My Windows keyboard is Logitech K350. It has keys for media app and Windows
volume controls, the Media Center app, calculator app, browser up-down zoom, Windows/tab task switching, Windows settings, and standby.
Unlike the Mac keyboard it also has delete and backspace keys. I have never understood why Macs don't have both.
Thomas E.:
My Windows keyboard is Logitech K350. It has keys for media app
and Windows volume controls, the Media Center app, calculator
app, browser up-down zoom, Windows/tab task switching, Windows
settings, and standby. Unlike the Mac keyboard it also has
delete and backspace keys. I have never understood why Macs
don't have both.
Snit:
The full sized ones with keypads do.
I was actually referring to the notebook keyboard.
On the mobile/tablet platforms I transitioned to iOS from Android
about 4 years ago. It was a struggle for a few weeks. Android's
settings are organized into a lot fewer top level groups. Finding
iOS setting was confusing at first, but 4 years later is
"intuitive". The iOS keyboard is not as good as Android, and the
forms auto-input is much more limited. I still find it frustrating
that iOS does not seem to know my e-mail address and pop it up every
time I need it for a browser form. I use mostly MS Office and Google
apps, so that was not bad at all. There are almost no differences to
learn. The new iOS Office version is awesome. But again, it works
well on Android too.
My Windows keyboard is Logitech K350. It has keys for media app and
Windows volume controls, the Media Center app, calculator app,
browser up-down zoom, Windows/tab task switching, Windows settings,
and standby.
Unlike the Mac keyboard it also has delete and
backspace keys. I have never understood why Macs don't have both.
For the sake of the group please do not try to switch. Stick with
what you know. We don't need you venting your frustrations as you
learn a new paradigm.
My Windows keyboard is Logitech K350. It has keys for media app and
Windows volume controls, the Media Center app, calculator app, browser up-down zoom, Windows/tab task switching, Windows settings, and standby. Unlike the Mac keyboard it also has delete and backspace keys. I have
never understood why Macs don't have both.
For the sake of the group please do not try to switch. Stick with what
you know. We don't need you venting your frustrations as you learn a new paradigm.
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 9:27:59 AM UTC-4, Snit wrote:
Thomas E. <thomas...@gmail.com> wrote:
…
The full sized ones with keypads do.
My Windows keyboard is Logitech K350. It has keys for media app and
Windows volume controls, the Media Center app, calculator app, browser
up-down zoom, Windows/tab task switching, Windows settings, and standby. >>> Unlike the Mac keyboard it also has delete and backspace keys. I have
never understood why Macs don't have both.
For the sake of the group please do not try to switch. Stick with what
you know. We don't need you venting your frustrations as you learn a new >>> paradigm.
I was actually referring to the notebook keyboard.
Thomas E. <thomas...@gmail.com> wrote:
…
My Windows keyboard is Logitech K350. It has keys for media app and Windows volume controls, the Media Center app, calculator app, browser up-down zoom, Windows/tab task switching, Windows settings, and standby. Unlike the Mac keyboard it also has delete and backspace keys. I have never understood why Macs don't have both.The full sized ones with keypads do.
For the sake of the group please do not try to switch. Stick with what
you know. We don't need you venting your frustrations as you learn a new paradigm.
--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.
They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 4:47:41 PM UTC-4, Sandman wrote:
So, now and then I wonder about the other side, what if I actually tried to
switch to Windows? Could it work?
I mean, the obvious answer is no, since even if we disregard our advocacy bullet points, we're talking about 37 years of Mac usage, and that kind of
history really do create a way you are used to "how things work".
My main development tool is PHPStorm, which is a java application and runs on
Windows as well, naturally. On top of that, I just need a web browser and a
web server. Now, Apache+mariadDB can be installed on Windows, but I would think that a safer bet would be Docker for that. So in theory my main development environment could be more or less replicated on Windows.
So then there is the system, while MacOS and Windows certainly have different
approaches to a great number of things, most of that amounts to relearning
stuff and conventions I guess.
But in the end, Windows is no Unix, and the Unix underpinnings of OSX is freaking awesome to have at your disposal. And while relearning how virtual
desktops work or how you install and uninstall applications is one thing -
yanking out some 30+ years of unix and linux conditioning isn't an easy task.
It's like moving from emacs to vim, really. Nothing is the same, or even similar.
And then there's all the little details, things you never think about. Something like the Automator app, that can create big workflows out of GUI
applications. For instance, I have a "Upload reciept" action when I print a
document, that uploads the reciepts to my web server, saves it in a database
and gives me the option of filling out information about it. AppleScript may
not be modern or even easy to use, but when it does work, it's pretty awesome. If I hit F19 on my keyboard, an applescript goes through a list of
apps and if any one of them is running, plays or pauses it. So I can listen
to music on Spotify, watch Netflix, youtube, whatever and I hit that button
and it pauses. For the record, yes the Apple keyboard does have a play/pause
button but the app has to support it, and many do, but some don't. Hey AppleScript :)
So the only reason to even contemplate this for the sake of contemplating this is gaming of course - the only thing Windows actually does better. I have a gaming computer in my office, but I do think about how it could be if
that also was my work computer. I don't know, I'm probably just fantasising,
it's late here in Sweden :)
So finally a rainy day here and some time I can call my own. It's been a month since I even looked at CSMA.
I've had very little experience with Mac OS, and found it frustrating. Not because it'sI've been a "dual OS" user for 20+ years. There's little UI niggles that one finds pretty
inherently difficult if it's what you are used to, but different from Windows. If you are
a Windows user Mac OS is not intuitive. You could obviously learn Windows, and it
would probably do almost anything a Mac can do, but it would take time and an open mind.
quickly (such as if the keyboard tactile indents are under the index fingers or middle fingers
when touch-typing), but its not too terribly different than developing the muscle memory
familiarity with the controls layouts of two different brands of automobiles...
On the mobile/tablet platforms I transitioned to iOS from Android about 4 years ago.Mine regularly pops up; asks me which email address / phone# / etc that it should use.
It was a struggle for a few weeks. Android's settings are organized into a lot fewer top
level groups. Finding iOS setting was confusing at first, but 4 years later is "intuitive".
The iOS keyboard is not as good as Android, and the forms auto-input is much more limited.
I still find it frustrating that iOS does not seem to know my e-mail address and pop it up
every time I need it for a browser form.
I suspect that this probably is a "field definitions" issue from the website side, where the
OS is looking for specific HTML/XML tagging for what kind of data input its supposed to be.
Maybe iOS is simply being more stringent?
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...
We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.
Windows has its own scripting language, but I have almost no experience with it. I've usedI had dabbled some with some Mac scripts years ago .. and then an OS update broke them.
some scripts others wrote to perform maintenance tasks. Seems to work, but have no idea
how it compares to the Mac equivalent.
After some futzing to try to unbreak it, I just abandoned it.
My Windows keyboard is Logitech K350. It has keys for media app and Windows volume controls, the Media Center app, calculator app, browser up-down zoom,I'd set up some 'Hot Keys' on my Mac keyboards F-buttons awhile back. They could
Windows/tab task switching, Windows settings, and standby.
be useful, but I've found that with a larger monitor now, I only rarely use them.
Unlike the Mac keyboard it also has delete and backspace keys. I have never understood why Macs don't have both.My Apple OEM keyboard has both ... just need to choose the bigger ("extended")
keyboard instead of the compact one (which lacks numeric keypad):
<https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MQ052LL/A/magic-keyboard-with-numeric-keypad-us-english>
-hh
Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan
for all my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no differences at all in Office app startup times across
both platforms.
My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of
used that feature.
I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used
the external Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.
Thomas E.:
My Windows keyboard is Logitech K350. It has keys
for media app and Windows volume controls, the Media Center
app, calculator app, browser up-down zoom, Windows/tab task switching, Windows settings, and standby. Unlike the Mac
keyboard it also has delete and backspace keys. I have never understood why Macs don't have both.
Snit:
The full sized ones with keypads do.
Thomas E.:
I was actually referring to the notebook keyboard.
Sandman:
So your windows notebook have a Logitech K350 keyboard built in?
That's a funky looking notebook, Tom. -- Sandman
Silly boy. My Logitech 350 is an external device. However my HP
notebook has delete and backspace, page up, page down, insert, home,
and end keys plus a numeric keypad with number lock. Does your Mac
laptop have any of those keys?
In article <36b94b6a-3b7d-4a31...@googlegroups.com>, Thomas
E. wrote:
Thomas E.:
My Windows keyboard is Logitech K350. It has keys for media app
and Windows volume controls, the Media Center app, calculator
app, browser up-down zoom, Windows/tab task switching, Windows settings, and standby. Unlike the Mac keyboard it also has
delete and backspace keys. I have never understood why Macs
don't have both.
Snit:
The full sized ones with keypads do.
I was actually referring to the notebook keyboard.So your windows notebook have a Logitech K350 keyboard built in? That's a funky looking notebook, Tom.
--
Sandman
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
...
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...
We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.
Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.
My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.
I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the external
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.
In article <0488e39b-14c6-44d3...@googlegroups.com>, Thomas E.
wrote:
Thomas E.:
My Windows keyboard is Logitech K350. It has keys
for media app and Windows volume controls, the Media Center
app, calculator app, browser up-down zoom, Windows/tab task switching, Windows settings, and standby. Unlike the Mac
keyboard it also has delete and backspace keys. I have never understood why Macs don't have both.
Snit:
The full sized ones with keypads do.
Thomas E.:
I was actually referring to the notebook keyboard.
Sandman:
So your windows notebook have a Logitech K350 keyboard built in?
That's a funky looking notebook, Tom. -- Sandman
Silly boy. My Logitech 350 is an external device. However my HPIt does not, but that's hardly the point, now is it? Since all PC laptops does
notebook has delete and backspace, page up, page down, insert, home,
and end keys plus a numeric keypad with number lock. Does your Mac
laptop have any of those keys?
not have the aforementioned keys either, especially sub-17 laptops. One must wonder what use you have of such a huge laptop.
--
Sandman
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
...
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...
I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems thatWe've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats.
My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.
I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the externalLaptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.
I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...
-hh
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
...
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...
I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems thatWe've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats.
My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.
I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the externalLaptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.
I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...
-hh
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
...
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...
I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems thatWe've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats.
My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.
I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the externalLaptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.
laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.
I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on
one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...
Essentially all 15" HP laptops have keypad. 13" versions don't.
https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/vwa/laptops/availability=In-Stock;segm=Home;brand=ENVY?jumpid=ma_lt_featured_na_5_210303
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:14:59 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
...
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...
I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems thatWe've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no
differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats.
My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.
I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the externalLaptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.
laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because
of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.
I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on
one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...
Essentially all 15" HP laptops have keypad. 13" versions don't.
https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/vwa/laptops/availability=In-Stock;segm=Home;brand=ENVY?jumpid=ma_lt_featured_na_5_210303That's probably a market differentiation attempt by HP ... and the question I'd look at
is how physically wide is the actual keyboard, to try to assess how much they squeezed
its key widths, as this will adversely affect touch-typing.
Meantime, I've not had a keypad on my my Dell or Thinkpads for over a decade. Not
even on my widescreen T61 which I learned was impractically large/heavy for travel,
which I retired early.
-hh
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
...
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...
I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems thatWe've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no
differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats.
My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.
I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the externalLaptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.
laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because
of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.
I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on
one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...
-hhEssentially all 15" HP laptops have keypad. 13" versions don't.
https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/vwa/laptops/availability=In-Stock;segm=Home;brand=ENVY?jumpid=ma_lt_featured_na_5_210303
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 3:09:36 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:14:59 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:That's probably a market differentiation attempt by HP ... and the question I'd look at
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats. >>>>> My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>>>> ...Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all... >>>>>>We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no >>>>> differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms. >>>> I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems that
Laptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern
I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the external
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.
laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because
of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.
I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on
one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...
Essentially all 15" HP laptops have keypad. 13" versions don't.
https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/vwa/laptops/availability=In-Stock;segm=Home;brand=ENVY?jumpid=ma_lt_featured_na_5_210303
is how physically wide is the actual keyboard, to try to assess how much they squeezed
its key widths, as this will adversely affect touch-typing.
Meantime, I've not had a keypad on my my Dell or Thinkpads for over a decade. Not
even on my widescreen T61 which I learned was impractically large/heavy for travel,
which I retired early.
-hh
Not true about HP within the Windows laptop space. 15" class Dell, Lenovo, ASUS, Acer and Samsung laptops all have numeric keypads.
No numeric keypads below 15" or on Chomebooks regardless of size I have seen in stores.
My HP is great for typing.
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 3:09:36 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:14:59 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
...
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...
I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems thatWe've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no
differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats.
My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.
I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the externalLaptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.
laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because
of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.
I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on
one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...
Essentially all 15" HP laptops have keypad. 13" versions don't.
https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/vwa/laptops/availability=In-Stock;segm=Home;brand=ENVY?jumpid=ma_lt_featured_na_5_210303That's probably a market differentiation attempt by HP ... and the question I'd look at
is how physically wide is the actual keyboard, to try to assess how much they squeezed
its key widths, as this will adversely affect touch-typing.
Meantime, I've not had a keypad on my my Dell or Thinkpads for over a decade. Not
even on my widescreen T61 which I learned was impractically large/heavy for travel,
which I retired early.
Not true about HP within the Windows laptop space. 15" class Dell, Lenovo, ASUS,
Acer and Samsung laptops all have numeric keypads.
No numeric keypads below 15" or on Chomebooks regardless of size I have seen in stores.
My HP is great for typing.
On 2021-09-20 3:27 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 3:09:36 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:14:59 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:That's probably a market differentiation attempt by HP ... and the question I'd look at
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats. >>>>> My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>>>> ...Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...
We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no
differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms. >>>> I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems that
Laptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern
I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the external
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.
laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because
of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.
I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on
one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...
Essentially all 15" HP laptops have keypad. 13" versions don't.
https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/vwa/laptops/availability=In-Stock;segm=Home;brand=ENVY?jumpid=ma_lt_featured_na_5_210303
is how physically wide is the actual keyboard, to try to assess how much they squeezed
its key widths, as this will adversely affect touch-typing.
Meantime, I've not had a keypad on my my Dell or Thinkpads for over a decade. Not
even on my widescreen T61 which I learned was impractically large/heavy for travel,
which I retired early.
-hh
Not true about HP within the Windows laptop space. 15" class Dell, Lenovo, ASUS, Acer and Samsung laptops all have numeric keypads.
No numeric keypads below 15" or on Chomebooks regardless of size I have seen in stores.
My HP is great for typing.
I can't help noticing you've carefully avoided saying what your HP
laptop actually is.
So what is it?
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 6:27:09 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 3:09:36 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:14:59 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
...
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...
I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems thatWe've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no
differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats.
My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.
I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the externalLaptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.
laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because
of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.
I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on
one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...
Essentially all 15" HP laptops have keypad. 13" versions don't.
https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/vwa/laptops/availability=In-Stock;segm=Home;brand=ENVY?jumpid=ma_lt_featured_na_5_210303That's probably a market differentiation attempt by HP ... and the question I'd look at
is how physically wide is the actual keyboard, to try to assess how much they squeezed
its key widths, as this will adversely affect touch-typing.
Meantime, I've not had a keypad on my my Dell or Thinkpads for over a decade. Not
even on my widescreen T61 which I learned was impractically large/heavy for travel,
which I retired early.
Not true about HP within the Windows laptop space. 15" class Dell, Lenovo, ASUS,
Acer and Samsung laptops all have numeric keypads.
No numeric keypads below 15" or on Chomebooks regardless of size I have seen in stores.So they differentiate based on form factor (size) for where it is feasible.
Of course, it’s been over a decade since I’ve chosen a 15” laptop for mobility.
My HP is great for typing.Could be; lots of folks any other aren’t touch-types, so they’ll be less sensitive
to a,crowded layout…probably also why Apple’s horrific keyboard failure went
unaddressed for far, far too long: I find TT on my MBP sucks.
-hh
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
...
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...
We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.
Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.
I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems that
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats.
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
...
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...
We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.
Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.
I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems thatWell, it looks like I should have shaken the dead chicken & walked it around the house three times
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats.
after making that comment yesterday...
Its now nearly 10AM and I've had the pleasure of three (3) BSOD's this morning on my Windows PC;
it *finally* seems stable at the moment, possibly because I chose to not log into MS OneDrive (yet).
My guess is that it looks like they've added a Cloud-based web browser (Menlo security?) and
that may be fighting with the Cisco VPN software.
-hh
On 2021-09-20 3:27 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 3:09:36 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:14:59 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:That's probably a market differentiation attempt by HP ... and the question I'd look at
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats. >>>>> My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>>>> ...Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...
We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no
differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms. >>>> I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems that
Laptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern
I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the external
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.
laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because
of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.
I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on
one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...
Essentially all 15" HP laptops have keypad. 13" versions don't.
https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/vwa/laptops/availability=In-Stock;segm=Home;brand=ENVY?jumpid=ma_lt_featured_na_5_210303
is how physically wide is the actual keyboard, to try to assess how much they squeezed
its key widths, as this will adversely affect touch-typing.
Meantime, I've not had a keypad on my my Dell or Thinkpads for over a decade. Not
even on my widescreen T61 which I learned was impractically large/heavy for travel,
which I retired early.
-hh
Not true about HP within the Windows laptop space. 15" class Dell, Lenovo, ASUS, Acer and Samsung laptops all have numeric keypads.
No numeric keypads below 15" or on Chomebooks regardless of size I have seen in stores.
My HP is great for typing.
I can't help noticing you've carefully avoided saying what your HP
laptop actually is.
So what is it?
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
...
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...
We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.
Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.
I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems thatWell, it looks like I should have shaken the dead chicken & walked it around the house three times
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats.
after making that comment yesterday...
Its now nearly 10AM and I've had the pleasure of three (3) BSOD's this morning on my Windows PC;
it *finally* seems stable at the moment, possibly because I chose to not log into MS OneDrive (yet).
My guess is that it looks like they've added a Cloud-based web browser (Menlo security?) and
that may be fighting with the Cisco VPN software.
-hh
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:53:10 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
On 2021-09-20 3:27 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 3:09:36 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:I can't help noticing you've carefully avoided saying what your HP
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:14:59 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:That's probably a market differentiation attempt by HP ... and the question I'd look at
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>>>> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats. >>>>>>> My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>>>>>> ...Strange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for all
I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all... >>>>>>>>We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no
differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms. >>>>>> I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems that
Laptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern
I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the external
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.
laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because
of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.
I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on
one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...
Essentially all 15" HP laptops have keypad. 13" versions don't.
https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/vwa/laptops/availability=In-Stock;segm=Home;brand=ENVY?jumpid=ma_lt_featured_na_5_210303
is how physically wide is the actual keyboard, to try to assess how much they squeezed
its key widths, as this will adversely affect touch-typing.
Meantime, I've not had a keypad on my my Dell or Thinkpads for over a decade. Not
even on my widescreen T61 which I learned was impractically large/heavy for travel,
which I retired early.
-hh
Not true about HP within the Windows laptop space. 15" class Dell, Lenovo, ASUS, Acer and Samsung laptops all have numeric keypads.
No numeric keypads below 15" or on Chomebooks regardless of size I have seen in stores.
My HP is great for typing.
laptop actually is.
So what is it?
A 15" class Envy, 4 years old next December. Same one that was the subject of prior discussion, including DIY trackpad replacement in which you were very active. You have a very short memory.
Specs, note the keyboard.
HP ENVY Laptop - 15t touch H379430014
• HP ENVY - 15t Touch Laptop
• 1 TB PCIe® NVMe™ M.2 SSD
• Full-size island-style backlit keyboard
• 16GB DDR4-2133 SDRAM (2 x 8GB)
• Intel® 802.11ac (2x2) Wi-Fi® and Bluetooth® 4.2 Combo
• 15.6" diagonal FHD IPS UWVA BrightView WLED-backlit (1920 x 1080) Touchscreen (for HD Camera)
• Windows 10 Home 64
• HP Wide Vision HD Webcam with Dual Digital Microphone (For Touch)
• 3-cell 52 WHr Lithium-ion Battery
• Intel® Core™ i7-7560U (2.4 GHz, up to 3.8 GHz, 4 MB cache, 2 cores) + Intel® Iris™ Plus Graphics 640
On 2021-09-24 4:34 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:53:10 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
On 2021-09-20 3:27 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 3:09:36 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:I can't help noticing you've carefully avoided saying what your HP
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:14:59 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
That's probably a market differentiation attempt by HP ... and the question I'd look atOn Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>>>> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote: >>>>>>>> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>>>>>> ...
I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with all of the security-based systems thatStrange. For years I have been on the Office 365 subscription plan for allI use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at all...
We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. With the new layers,
the PC's effective startup time has gone from a ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before
each of the individual systems have been satisfied. One example is with MS-Outlook now
puts up a UI box for (re)entering credentials before it will launch, and apparently because that
needs to go ping a remote server, the UI box is completely blank for 1-5 minutes before I'm
allowed to enter credentials.
my Windows laptops and iOS devices. Since day 1 I have seen absolutely no
differences at all in Office app startup times across both platforms.
have been cobbled together, particularly in response to recent threats.
My Logitech Keyboard F Keys can also be customized. Never needed of used that feature.Laptops have constraints that external keyboards do not: typically, a modern
I was referring to the native Mac laptop keyboard. I have never used the external
Magic keyboard. Thanks for the info.
laptop is too small to support a full keyboard (w/numerical keypad) because
of form factor constraints: they're not wide enough, so it gets into a question
of which is the less ugly UI design decision: to deliberately crowd keys closer
together to squeeze in a keypad, but thereby ruin touch-typing, or to retain good
key spacing & touch-typing by sacrificing having the room to include a keypad.
I think the last time that I happened to see a keypad on a laptop was back on
one of the old 17"-18" behemoths...
Essentially all 15" HP laptops have keypad. 13" versions don't.
https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/vwa/laptops/availability=In-Stock;segm=Home;brand=ENVY?jumpid=ma_lt_featured_na_5_210303
is how physically wide is the actual keyboard, to try to assess how much they squeezed
its key widths, as this will adversely affect touch-typing.
Meantime, I've not had a keypad on my my Dell or Thinkpads for over a decade. Not
even on my widescreen T61 which I learned was impractically large/heavy for travel,
which I retired early.
-hh
Not true about HP within the Windows laptop space. 15" class Dell, Lenovo, ASUS, Acer and Samsung laptops all have numeric keypads.
No numeric keypads below 15" or on Chomebooks regardless of size I have seen in stores.
My HP is great for typing.
laptop actually is.
So what is it?
A 15" class Envy, 4 years old next December. Same one that was the subject of prior discussion, including DIY trackpad replacement in which you were very active. You have a very short memory.You have a tendency to lie.
Specs, note the keyboard.
HP ENVY Laptop - 15t touch H379430014No shock that when I search support:
• HP ENVY - 15t Touch Laptop
• 1 TB PCIe® NVMe™ M.2 SSD
• Full-size island-style backlit keyboard
• 16GB DDR4-2133 SDRAM (2 x 8GB)
• Intel® 802.11ac (2x2) Wi-Fi® and Bluetooth® 4.2 Combo
• 15.6" diagonal FHD IPS UWVA BrightView WLED-backlit (1920 x 1080) Touchscreen (for HD Camera)
• Windows 10 Home 64
• HP Wide Vision HD Webcam with Dual Digital Microphone (For Touch)
• 3-cell 52 WHr Lithium-ion Battery
• Intel® Core™ i7-7560U (2.4 GHz, up to 3.8 GHz, 4 MB cache, 2 cores) + Intel® Iris™ Plus Graphics 640
'Please enter a valid serial number, product number or product name'
But here is a current offering in that same space (ENVY 15" touchscreen):
<https://www.hp.com/ca-en/shop/product.aspx?id=10M52UA&opt=ABL&sel=NTB>
Note the lack of a "full-size" keyboard.
There are currently only two "ENVY" HP laptops for sale with numeric keypads...
...and they're both 17" displays.
On 2021-09-24 4:34 a.m., Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:53:10 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
On 2021-09-20 3:27 p.m., Thomas E. wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 3:09:36 PM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:14:59 PM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>>> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 11:19:19 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote:
On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 10:08:38 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>>>>> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 8:41:25 AM UTC-4, -hh wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:52:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas E. wrote: >>>>>>>>>> ... I use mostly MS Office and Google apps, so that was not bad at >>>>>>>>>> all...
We've been struggling with the "365" deployment for the past month. >>>>>>>>> With the new layers, the PC's effective startup time has gone from a >>>>>>>>> ~few minutes to closer to ~10 minutes before each of the indiv
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