• Backup oddity

    From Chris Newman@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 30 15:53:34 2021
    Hi,

    Raspberry Pi4 RISC OS 5.28

    As usual, I was backing up the Pi to my external hardisc using Dave
    Pilling / Chris Johnson's !SyncDiscs.

    Every now & again I got "No Hardwareat this device ID." Clicking abort
    or retry allowed the app to carry on. Had a brief look at the backup & it
    looks fine. Verified my RISC OS format backup disc and it reported OK.
    Anyone ever seen this phenomenon?

    --
    Chris Newman

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  • From News@21:1/5 to Chris Newman on Mon Aug 30 16:39:25 2021
    In article <5964278749cvjazz@waitrose.com>,
    Chris Newman <cvjazz@waitrose.com> wrote:
    Hi,

    Raspberry Pi4 RISC OS 5.28

    As usual, I was backing up the Pi to my external hardisc using Dave
    Pilling / Chris Johnson's !SyncDiscs.

    Every now & again I got "No Hardwareat this device ID." Clicking
    abort or retry allowed the app to carry on. Had a brief look at the
    backup & it looks fine. Verified my RISC OS format backup disc and
    it reported OK. Anyone ever seen this phenomenon?

    That error message is not generated by !SyncDiscs, but by the OS. I
    assume your external drive is connected via USB. It could be that the
    drive is periodically becoming invisible for short periods.

    When I used external drives (SSD) with the BeagleBoard and PandaES in
    the past I saw something similar when the usb drive disappeared. I
    thought it was due to either/or/and RISC OS usb stack problems and
    power supply gliches when the drive was working hard.

    --
    Chris Johnson

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Brian Jordan@21:1/5 to Chris Newman on Mon Aug 30 16:34:33 2021
    In article <5964278749cvjazz@waitrose.com>,
    Chris Newman <cvjazz@waitrose.com> wrote:
    Hi,

    Raspberry Pi4 RISC OS 5.28

    As usual, I was backing up the Pi to my external hardisc using Dave
    Pilling / Chris Johnson's !SyncDiscs.

    Every now & again I got "No Hardwareat this device ID." Clicking abort
    or retry allowed the app to carry on. Had a brief look at the backup &
    it looks fine. Verified my RISC OS format backup disc and it reported
    OK. Anyone ever seen this phenomenon?

    Yes, exactly as you describe.

    --
    _____________________________________________________________________

    Brian Jordan
    RISC OS 5.28 (19-Oct-20) on Raspberry Pi _____________________________________________________________________

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Newman@21:1/5 to News on Mon Aug 30 20:56:54 2021
    In article <59642bb9a8chrisjohnson@spamcop.net>,
    News <chrisjohnson@spamcop.net> wrote:
    In article <5964278749cvjazz@waitrose.com>,
    Chris Newman <cvjazz@waitrose.com> wrote:
    Hi,

    Raspberry Pi4 RISC OS 5.28

    As usual, I was backing up the Pi to my external hardisc using Dave
    Pilling / Chris Johnson's !SyncDiscs.

    Every now & again I got "No Hardwareat this device ID." Clicking
    abort or retry allowed the app to carry on. Had a brief look at the
    backup & it looks fine. Verified my RISC OS format backup disc and
    it reported OK. Anyone ever seen this phenomenon?

    That error message is not generated by !SyncDiscs, but by the OS. I
    assume your external drive is connected via USB. It could be that the
    drive is periodically becoming invisible for short periods.

    Correct. Thanks for explaining.

    When I used external drives (SSD) with the BeagleBoard and PandaES in
    the past I saw something similar when the usb drive disappeared. I
    thought it was due to either/or/and RISC OS usb stack problems and
    power supply gliches when the drive was working hard.

    So that begs the questions:-

    1) What's the best choice to continue "Retry" ?

    2) Will I have missed backing up some data.

    --
    Chris Newman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Theo@21:1/5 to News on Mon Aug 30 23:05:16 2021
    News <chrisjohnson@spamcop.net> wrote:
    That error message is not generated by !SyncDiscs, but by the OS. I
    assume your external drive is connected via USB. It could be that the
    drive is periodically becoming invisible for short periods.

    When I used external drives (SSD) with the BeagleBoard and PandaES in
    the past I saw something similar when the usb drive disappeared. I
    thought it was due to either/or/and RISC OS usb stack problems and
    power supply gliches when the drive was working hard.

    Just a random guess, but sometimes external HDD go to sleep and spin down to save power. They then take a long time to spin up again when accessed, and
    any accesses stall until they're ready.

    It wouldn't be related to some effect like this, would it?

    Theo

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From News@21:1/5 to Chris Newman on Mon Aug 30 22:19:59 2021
    In article <5964434c5fcvjazz@waitrose.com>,
    Chris Newman <cvjazz@waitrose.com> wrote:
    So that begs the questions:-

    1) What's the best choice to continue "Retry" ?

    2) Will I have missed backing up some data.

    Abort will do just that to the filer action (e.g. copy), so that
    particular action will be terminated. Retry will attempt to do the
    action again, so any sync action will ultimately complete. The
    question will be whether the retry attempt will be allowed by the
    filer action.

    A final check would be to do a 'Compare' on the two directories after
    the sync has allegedly completed. This would show up if there were
    any differences remaining.

    Is the use of SyncDiscs the only intensive activity the external
    drive would be subjected to? When I had similar sorts of problems it
    was not necessarily SyncDiscs, but any file system intensive
    operations that could stall. I also found it affected some brands of
    SSD (or the corresponding usb-SATA interface or powered hub) much
    more than others, which made me wonder about power supply effects.

    --
    Chris Johnson

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From News@21:1/5 to Theo on Mon Aug 30 23:42:08 2021
    In article <Oeh*hw1sy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
    Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
    Just a random guess, but sometimes external HDD go to sleep and
    spin down to save power. They then take a long time to spin up
    again when accessed, and any accesses stall until they're ready.

    It wouldn't be related to some effect like this, would it?

    This could certainly occur in general usage, and I am sure it does.
    My NAS certainly spins the drives down after some inactivity, and
    there is then a pause of a few seconds for the drive to come up again
    when it is accessed later. However, when SyncDiscs is running then it
    is continuously accessing the file catalogue info for the file/dir
    details, even if almost all the files do not need updating. I do not
    think the drive would spin down under these circumstances.

    In my case, all the drives were SSD, hence no actual spin up/spin
    down. Drive operation would just stop, often in the middle of a file
    operation (filer action would raise an error box), and the file name
    under the drive on the iconbar would revert to :5 or whatever until
    the drive icon was clicked on and normal action was restored. I am
    not saying that is what is happening here, only that there have often
    been issues with usb hard drives when worked hard.

    --
    Chris Johnson

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Newman@21:1/5 to News on Tue Aug 31 18:56:57 2021
    In article <5964526d07chrisjohnson@spamcop.net>,
    News <chrisjohnson@spamcop.net> wrote:
    In article <Oeh*hw1sy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
    Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
    Just a random guess, but sometimes external HDD go to sleep and
    spin down to save power. They then take a long time to spin up
    again when accessed, and any accesses stall until they're ready.

    It wouldn't be related to some effect like this, would it?

    This could certainly occur in general usage, and I am sure it does.
    My NAS certainly spins the drives down after some inactivity, and
    there is then a pause of a few seconds for the drive to come up again
    when it is accessed later. However, when SyncDiscs is running then it
    is continuously accessing the file catalogue info for the file/dir
    details, even if almost all the files do not need updating. I do not
    think the drive would spin down under these circumstances.

    In my case, all the drives were SSD, hence no actual spin up/spin
    down. Drive operation would just stop, often in the middle of a file operation (filer action would raise an error box), and the file name
    under the drive on the iconbar would revert to :5 or whatever until
    the drive icon was clicked on and normal action was restored. I am
    not saying that is what is happening here, only that there have often
    been issues with usb hard drives when worked hard.

    I'd done lots of previous backups with the same disc & this is the first
    time I've encountered this effect.

    --
    Chris Newman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)