G'day folks,
I've been trying to read up about the BT move (Now in action) to dump
copper wire connections and only have cable, but the info I've read is not very illuminating.
I'm wondering if anyone here can illuminate a couple of points for me?
1) If they use FTTC and the BT cabinet is some way down the road as it is here, How do they then connect to my house?
2) If they connect FTTP and bring the cable right to the wall of my house, what happens from their (I guess junction box) to connect inside the house
to the Networking Router and phones?
In message <598bd51238dave@triffid.co.uk>
Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
G'day folks,
I've been trying to read up about the BT move (Now in action) to
dump copper wire connections and only have cable, but the info I've
read is not very illuminating.
I'm wondering if anyone here can illuminate a couple of points for
me?
1) If they use FTTC and the BT cabinet is some way down the road as
it is here, How do they then connect to my house?
Exactly the same as now, the only difference will be that your phone
service if you choose to keep it will be supplied as VoIP (Voice over Internet Protocol), and in the majority of cases you should be able
to retain your existing phone number. So basically it means your
phone calls go via the internet instead. (longer term is that your
phone number including what was called your STD code will stay with
you even if you move to another part of the UK, so its been said)
If you do not want broadband at all, they will supply a very basic
VoIP service with a 0.5Mb internet connection via your existing line.
2) If they connect FTTP and bring the cable right to the wall of my
house, what happens from their (I guess junction box) to connect
inside the house to the Networking Router and phones?
They fit what is called ONT to your property and your fibre router
with VoIP facility is connected to that (there will be a digital VoIP
socket on the router to plug your phone in to).
In message <20211115104427.6b7798db@wibble.sysadmininc.com>
Nigel Reed <sysop@endofthelinebbs.com> wrote:
On Mon, 15 Nov 2021 16:19:03 GMT
Chris Hughes <news13@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
In message <598bd51238dave@triffid.co.uk>
Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
G'day folks,
I've been trying to read up about the BT move (Now in action) to
dump copper wire connections and only have cable, but the info I've
read is not very illuminating.
I'm wondering if anyone here can illuminate a couple of points for
me?
1) If they use FTTC and the BT cabinet is some way down the road as
it is here, How do they then connect to my house?
Exactly the same as now, the only difference will be that your phone
service if you choose to keep it will be supplied as VoIP (Voice over
Internet Protocol), and in the majority of cases you should be able
to retain your existing phone number. So basically it means your
phone calls go via the internet instead. (longer term is that your
phone number including what was called your STD code will stay with
you even if you move to another part of the UK, so its been said)
If you do not want broadband at all, they will supply a very basic
VoIP service with a 0.5Mb internet connection via your existing line.
2) If they connect FTTP and bring the cable right to the wall of my
house, what happens from their (I guess junction box) to connect
inside the house to the Networking Router and phones?
They fit what is called ONT to your property and your fibre router
with VoIP facility is connected to that (there will be a digital VoIP
socket on the router to plug your phone in to).
Keep in mind if the power goes out, you need to have your ONT on
battery backup otherwise you have no phone service, and your days of calling bulletin boards is over and done. Modems do not work well over voip.
If you are on the ISP's vunerable users list, you will be provided with a backup battery (ofcom requirement I understand), otherwise you have to provide your own.
They have assumed if the line goes down you will have a mobile to carry on with.
On Mon, 15 Nov 2021 16:19:03 GMT
Chris Hughes <news13@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
In message <598bd51238dave@triffid.co.uk>
Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
G'day folks,
I've been trying to read up about the BT move (Now in action) to
dump copper wire connections and only have cable, but the info I've
read is not very illuminating.
I'm wondering if anyone here can illuminate a couple of points for
me?
1) If they use FTTC and the BT cabinet is some way down the road as
it is here, How do they then connect to my house?
Exactly the same as now, the only difference will be that your phone
service if you choose to keep it will be supplied as VoIP (Voice over
Internet Protocol), and in the majority of cases you should be able
to retain your existing phone number. So basically it means your
phone calls go via the internet instead. (longer term is that your
phone number including what was called your STD code will stay with
you even if you move to another part of the UK, so its been said)
If you do not want broadband at all, they will supply a very basic
VoIP service with a 0.5Mb internet connection via your existing line.
2) If they connect FTTP and bring the cable right to the wall of my
house, what happens from their (I guess junction box) to connect
inside the house to the Networking Router and phones?
They fit what is called ONT to your property and your fibre router
with VoIP facility is connected to that (there will be a digital VoIP
socket on the router to plug your phone in to).
Keep in mind if the power goes out, you need to have your ONT on
battery backup otherwise you have no phone service, and your days of
calling bulletin boards is over and done. Modems do not work well over
voip.
In message <598bd51238dave@triffid.co.uk>
Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
G'day folks, I've been trying to read up about the BT move (Now in
action) to dump copper wire connections and only have cable, but the
info I've read is not very illuminating.
I'm wondering if anyone here can illuminate a couple of points for me?
1) If they use FTTC and the BT cabinet is some way down the road as it
is here, How do they then connect to my house?
Exactly the same as now, the only difference will be that your phone
service if you choose to keep it will be supplied as VoIP (Voice over Internet Protocol), and in the majority of cases you should be able to
retain your existing phone number. So basically it means your phone
calls go via the internet instead. (longer term is that your phone
number including what was called your STD code will stay with you even
if you move to another part of the UK, so its been said)
If you do not want broadband at all, they will supply a very basic VoIP service with a 0.5Mb internet connection via your existing line.
2) If they connect FTTP and bring the cable right to the wall of my
house, what happens from their (I guess junction box) to connect
inside the house to the Networking Router and phones?
They fit what is called ONT to your property and your fibre router with
VoIP facility is connected to that (there will be a digital VoIP socket
on the router to plug your phone in to).
Thanks Chris,
There's a pole in the pavement about 50 metres down the road from which a copper cable runs to my front Gable, so you are saying with FFTC (The
cabinet is way down the road) the connection will continue through that Copper cable as it now is?
We already have broadband (Not BT) that comes down the copper cable as
does the phone...
We do not have any Fibre cable stuff at all.
Mmnnn! The front of the house is where the copper cable comes inside to
the master socket, the office is at the back of the house and the copper cable runs under the floors for 18 metres where its socket is connected to the phone and Modem Router (TP-Link Archer VR2800).
How will the office modem router connect to the whatever, where the fibre cable comes into the front of the house and ONT?
In article <bfb8d68b59.chris@mytarbis.plus.com>,
Chris Hughes <news13@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
In message <598bd51238dave@triffid.co.uk>
Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
G'day folks, I've been trying to read up about the BT move (Now in
action) to dump copper wire connections and only have cable, but the
info I've read is not very illuminating.
I'm wondering if anyone here can illuminate a couple of points for me?
1) If they use FTTC and the BT cabinet is some way down the road as it
is here, How do they then connect to my house?
Exactly the same as now, the only difference will be that your phone
service if you choose to keep it will be supplied as VoIP (Voice over
Internet Protocol), and in the majority of cases you should be able to
retain your existing phone number. So basically it means your phone
calls go via the internet instead. (longer term is that your phone
number including what was called your STD code will stay with you even
if you move to another part of the UK, so its been said)
If you do not want broadband at all, they will supply a very basic VoIP
service with a 0.5Mb internet connection via your existing line.
Thanks Chris,
There's a pole in the pavement about 50 metres down the road from which a copper cable runs to my front Gable, so you are saying with FFTC (The
cabinet is way down the road) the connection will continue through that Copper cable as it now is?
We already have broadband (Not BT) that comes down the copper cable as
does the phone...
We do not have any Fibre cable stuff at all.
2) If they connect FTTP and bring the cable right to the wall of my
house, what happens from their (I guess junction box) to connect
inside the house to the Networking Router and phones?
They fit what is called ONT to your property and your fibre router with
VoIP facility is connected to that (there will be a digital VoIP socket
on the router to plug your phone in to).
Mmnnn! The front of the house is where the copper cable comes inside to
the master socket, the office is at the back of the house and the copper cable runs under the floors for 18 metres where its socket is connected to the phone and Modem Router (TP-Link Archer VR2800).
How will the office modem router connect to the whatever, where the fibre cable comes into the front of the house and ONT?
There are two things currently going on:
1) On FTTC, replacing the analogue voice connection with VOIP. This means instead of plugging a phone into your wall socket, you plug it into your ISP's router. That means you have to use your ISP's router (unless you
move to a third party VOIP service). You're still using the copper wire
for broadband.
In message <598be5c758dave@triffid.co.uk>
Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
We do not have any Fibre cable stuff at all.
The fibre you have currently will be from the exchange to the cabinet
hence why its called (F)ibre (T)o (T)he (C)abinet
Mmnnn! The front of the house is where the copper cable comes inside to
the master socket, the office is at the back of the house and the copper cable runs under the floors for 18 metres where its socket is connected
to the phone and Modem Router (TP-Link Archer VR2800).
The Master socket will be redundant when you get FTTP
and also redundant when you get VoIP either way.
The will install the ONT inside your property (needs to be close to a
power socket) and might well be prepared to run fibre to your back office.
How will the office modem router connect to the whatever, where the
fibre cable comes into the front of the house and ONT?
via a fibre cable normally and ethernet cable
On 15 Nov, Chris Hughes wrote in message
<466cfc8b59.chris@mytarbis.plus.com>:
In message <598be5c758dave@triffid.co.uk>
Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
We do not have any Fibre cable stuff at all.
The fibre you have currently will be from the exchange to the cabinet
hence why its called (F)ibre (T)o (T)he (C)abinet
Unless Dave's on ADSL -- which is quite possible -- in which case he won't currently have fibre anywhere between his house and the exchange. I'd assume that the upgrade would then be to FTTC unless the street has been fibred.
Mmnnn! The front of the house is where the copper cable comes inside to
the master socket, the office is at the back of the house and the copper >>> cable runs under the floors for 18 metres where its socket is connected
to the phone and Modem Router (TP-Link Archer VR2800).
The Master socket will be redundant when you get FTTP
...but not FTTC...
and also redundant when you get VoIP either way.
Surely with FTTC, the whatever-the-modem-bit-is-called will still plug into the master socket?
In message <mpro.r2n2rn02jv2m70484.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>
Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
On 15 Nov, Chris Hughes wrote in message
<466cfc8b59.chris@mytarbis.plus.com>:
In message <598be5c758dave@triffid.co.uk>
Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
We do not have any Fibre cable stuff at all.
The fibre you have currently will be from the exchange to the cabinet
hence why its called (F)ibre (T)o (T)he (C)abinet
Unless Dave's on ADSL -- which is quite possible -- in which case he
won't currently have fibre anywhere between his house and the
exchange. I'd assume that the upgrade would then be to FTTC unless the street has been fibred.
Agreed that is my understanding as well.
Mmnnn! The front of the house is where the copper cable comes inside
to the master socket, the office is at the back of the house and the
copper cable runs under the floors for 18 metres where its socket is
connected to the phone and Modem Router (TP-Link Archer VR2800).
The Master socket will be redundant when you get FTTP
...but not FTTC...
I was answering the point re FTTP, but yes its still needed for FTTC.
and also redundant when you get VoIP either way.
Surely with FTTC, the whatever-the-modem-bit-is-called will still plug
into the master socket?
Not once the analogue phone service (PSTN) is switched off, it will then
be via your router for example the Smart Hub 2 has a VoIP socket for
digital voice (VoIP), until that time then the master socket is still
used for the old Phone (PSTN) service.
[snip]
In article <59c6358c59.chris@mytarbis.plus.com>,
Chris Hughes <news13@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
In message <mpro.r2n2rn02jv2m70484.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>
Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
On 15 Nov, Chris Hughes wrote in message
<466cfc8b59.chris@mytarbis.plus.com>:
In message <598be5c758dave@triffid.co.uk>
Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
We do not have any Fibre cable stuff at all.
The fibre you have currently will be from the exchange to the cabinet
hence why its called (F)ibre (T)o (T)he (C)abinet
Unless Dave's on ADSL -- which is quite possible -- in which case he
won't currently have fibre anywhere between his house and the
exchange. I'd assume that the upgrade would then be to FTTC unless the
street has been fibred.
Agreed that is my understanding as well.
Mmnnn! The front of the house is where the copper cable comes inside >>>>> to the master socket, the office is at the back of the house and the >>>>> copper cable runs under the floors for 18 metres where its socket is >>>>> connected to the phone and Modem Router (TP-Link Archer VR2800).
The Master socket will be redundant when you get FTTP
...but not FTTC...
I was answering the point re FTTP, but yes its still needed for FTTC.
and also redundant when you get VoIP either way.
Surely with FTTC, the whatever-the-modem-bit-is-called will still plug
into the master socket?
Not once the analogue phone service (PSTN) is switched off, it will then
be via your router for example the Smart Hub 2 has a VoIP socket for
digital voice (VoIP), until that time then the master socket is still
used for the old Phone (PSTN) service.
[snip]
I give up, I'm now more confused than I was before asking the two original questions. :-(
In article <59c6358c59.chris@mytarbis.plus.com>,
Chris Hughes <news13@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
Not once the analogue phone service (PSTN) is switched off, it will then
be via your router for example the Smart Hub 2 has a VoIP socket for digital voice (VoIP), until that time then the master socket is still
used for the old Phone (PSTN) service.
[snip]
I give up, I'm now more confused than I was before asking the two original questions. :-(
How will the office modem router connect to the whatever, where the
fibre cable comes into the front of the house and ONT?
In message <598c513901dave@triffid.co.uk>
Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
I give up, I'm now more confused than I was before asking the two
original questions. :-(
What is your current broadband service ADSL, FTTC (VDSL) or are you
lucky enough to have full fibre.
End of day nothing to worry about at the moment, unless you are changing
ISP in the next year and even then they will help explain your options
A couple of useful URL#s: https://www.draytek.co.uk/support/guides/kb-openreach-sogea https://www.zen.co.uk/blog/posts/zen-blog/2020/03/30/sogea-our-industry#s-next-great-shake-up
explains some of it mainly regarding impact on FTTC
In summary, unless you go for FTTP, then after the removal of the POTS service you will be on ADSL or FTTC, you will still have a modem/router
just as you do now, and that will still plug into a master socket, just
as it does now.
The difference will be that your home phone will plug into that
modem/router if the latter supports that, or into another box that you
will connect to your local network. Or, if you use cordless DECT phones,
you could get a modem/router that contains a DECT base station.
If you go for FTTP, then the fibre comes into your home and terminates
in an Optical Network Terminator (ONT). In my setup here, there's no pluggable connection and the fibre is one solid length from the top of
the telephone pole, through the house wall and in to the ONT; Theo
suggests that Openreach might be improving on this, though (my
installation is from 2018).
Old FTTP installations might have a copper pair alongside for the POTS service (mine does) terminating in a standard master socket, but
presumably this will be withdrawn. Otherwise, the phone will plug into
your ONT, your router, or a box on your network -- just as for
ADSL/FTTC. Or it will use DECT, again as for ADSL/FTTC.
Hopefully that's clearer.
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England
I was out looking at things today, the FTTC is 100 or so yards along the road, from where earlier this year the BT vomit men (Open Reach) ran a
fibre cable in the under pavement conduit to the manhole beside the 50
yard pole I previously mentioned, the cable then goes up the pole.
At the top of the pole the fibre cable goes into a new largish rectangular black box.
Orpheus is our ISP and unless something happens at Richard's end, we'll be with them long term.
Hopefully that's clearer.
Old FTTP installations might have a copper pair alongside for the POTS service (mine does) terminating in a standard master socket, but presumably this will be withdrawn
In article <00bb5a8c59.chris@mytarbis.plus.com>,
Chris Hughes <news13@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
What is your current broadband service ADSL, FTTC (VDSL) or are
you lucky enough to have full fibre.
AFAICR. It's ADSL, and as mentioned in a previous posting, we have
No fibre cabling to or in this house.
I was out looking at things today, the FTTC is 100 or so yards
along the road, from where earlier this year the BT vomit men (Open
Reach) ran a fibre cable in the under pavement conduit to the
manhole beside the 50 yard pole I previously mentioned, the cable
then goes up the pole.
At the top of the pole the fibre cable goes into a new largish
rectangular black box.
If you go for FTTP, then the fibre comes into your home and terminates in an Optical Network Terminator (ONT). In my setup here, there's no pluggable connection and the fibre is one solid length from the top of the telephone pole, through the house wall and in to the ONT; Theo suggests that Openreach might be improving on this, though (my installation is from 2018).
Next door went full fibre recently. She says they simply plugged their existing house phone wiring into the new router, so all their cordless
base stations (4, I think) worked as before. The problem would likely be
with older phones that needed 48v DC and ringing volts.
In message <598c889fb6dave@davenoise.co.uk> "Dave Plowman
(News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
Next door went full fibre recently. She says they
simply plugged their existing house phone wiring into
the new router, so all their cordless base stations (4,
I think) worked as before. The problem would likely be
with older phones that needed 48v DC and ringing volts.
All analogue phones, and all DECT base stations that
connect to analogue phone lines, require the 48V DC and
the ringing voltage. The DC is required to signal on/off
hook; the ringing voltage is to, well, cause the "ringer"
to "ring". So there's no difference, and no problem.
In article <6ca4568d59.DaveMeUK@BeagleBoard-xM>, David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
In message <598c889fb6dave@davenoise.co.uk> "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
Next door went full fibre recently. She says they simply plugged their existing house phone wiring into the new router, so all their cordless base stations (4, I think) worked as before. The problem would likely
be with older phones that needed 48v DC and ringing volts.
All analogue phones, and all DECT base stations that connect to analogue phone lines, require the 48V DC and the ringing voltage. The DC is required to signal on/off hook; the ringing voltage is to, well, cause
the "ringer" to "ring". So there's no difference, and no problem.
I have been trying to get my head around this too.
I understand that in future I can plug a phone into an adaptor that plugs into the router (it does not have its own adaptor built in).
How, though, do I connect the rest of the phone sockets in the house to the system?
I much prefer the sound quality of a wired handset over a DECT one.
In message <598e0bbc44see.sig@russellhafter.me.invalid>
Russell Hafter News <see.sig@russellhafter.me.invalid> wrote:
I have been trying to get my head around this too.
I understand that in future I can plug a phone into an adaptor that plugs into the router (it does not have its own adaptor built in).
I'd like to read some information about such an adaptor.
How, though, do I connect the rest of the phone sockets in the house to the system?
That's a purely mechanical problem.
In message <598e0bbc44see.sig@russellhafter.me.invalid>
Russell Hafter News <see.sig@russellhafter.me.invalid> wrote:
In article <6ca4568d59.DaveMeUK@BeagleBoard-xM>, David Higton
<dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
In message <598c889fb6dave@davenoise.co.uk> "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
Next door went full fibre recently. She says they simply plugged their >>>> existing house phone wiring into the new router, so all their cordless >>>> base stations (4, I think) worked as before. The problem would likely
be with older phones that needed 48v DC and ringing volts.
All analogue phones, and all DECT base stations that connect to analogue >>> phone lines, require the 48V DC and the ringing voltage. The DC is
required to signal on/off hook; the ringing voltage is to, well, cause
the "ringer" to "ring". So there's no difference, and no problem.
I have been trying to get my head around this too.
I understand that in future I can plug a phone into an adaptor that plugs
into the router (it does not have its own adaptor built in).
I'd like to read some information about such an adaptor.
How, though, do I connect the rest of the phone sockets in the house to the >> system?
That's a purely mechanical problem.
I much prefer the sound quality of a wired handset over a DECT one.
I'd be interested to know if the up-market DECT handset that BT offer
can actually provide sound quality better than an analogue phone. It's entirely possible, since BT tell you to pair it with the router (which
has a DECT base station in it), and it is in theory possible to get an
end to end connection via (for example) G.729a. DECT has a bandwidth
of 32 kb/s, so, *IF* it's not tied to the old ADPCM codec traditionally
used by DECT, that's enough for high quality audio.
In article <6ca4568d59.DaveMeUK@BeagleBoard-xM>, David
Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
In message <598c889fb6dave@davenoise.co.uk> "Dave Plowman
(News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
Next door went full fibre recently. She says they
simply plugged their existing house phone wiring into
the new router, so all their cordless base stations (4,
I think) worked as before. The problem would likely be
with older phones that needed 48v DC and ringing volts.
All analogue phones, and all DECT base stations that
connect to analogue phone lines, require the 48V DC and
the ringing voltage. The DC is required to signal on/off
hook; the ringing voltage is to, well, cause the "ringer"
to "ring". So there's no difference, and no problem.
I have been trying to get my head around this too.
I understand that in future I can plug a phone into an
adaptor that plugs into the router (it does not have its own
adaptor built in).
How, though, do I connect the rest of the phone sockets in
the house to the system? I much prefer the sound quality of
a wired handset over a DECT one.
Another point that just seems to be completely ignored:- the
battery backup for router, adaptor, etc is, I believe,
considered to be OK if the power is off for just one hour.
Here we routinely have planned power cuts with the mains
power off for a full working day - 6 hours. Mobiles are
unusable for voice calls inside the house.
I have my own UPSs - but they usually do not last for
anything like 6 hours.
David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
In message <598e0bbc44see.sig@russellhafter.me.invalid>
Russell Hafter News <see.sig@russellhafter.me.invalid> wrote:
I have been trying to get my head around this too.
I understand that in future I can plug a phone into an adaptor that plugs >>> into the router (it does not have its own adaptor built in).
I'd like to read some information about such an adaptor.
I assume Russell is referring to an Analogue Telephone Adapter (ATA), which is how to convert regular analogue phones to VOIP.
That's easy to do for a third-party phone company, who offer their service via VOIP. It's unclear how to do so for your broadband provider, since typically those operate through a socket on your router and they won't let you have the login details to use your own ATA.
It may be that some ISPs (Orpheus perhaps?) are more enlightened and let you use your own, I don't know.
There are good reasons to port your number to a third party provider and
have it as a separate service to your broadband - you aren't stuck with substandard phone deals from your broadband provider.
G'day folks, I've been trying to read up about the BT move (Now in
action) to dump copper wire connections and only have cable, but the
info I've read is not very illuminating.
I'm wondering if anyone here can illuminate a couple of points for me?
1) If they use FTTC and the BT cabinet is some way down the road as it
is here, How do they then connect to my house?
2) If they connect FTTP and bring the cable right to the wall of my
house, what happens from their (I guess junction box) to connect inside
the house to the Networking Router and phones?
My router is at the top back of the house, a long way from where the BT
phone line enters the front of the house. I get good coverage from there
so I don't want to move it to the front of the house.
Presumably, my best option is Fibre to the Cabinet so I can keep all my internal wiring as is. No taking up of floorboards etc.
Who decides if I get FTTC or FTTP: BT or me?
The router can be anywhere in the house: it just passes network
traffic from your LAN to your ISP's WAN.
In article <598e757e6bNews03@avisoft.f9.co.uk>,
Martin <News03@avisoft.f9.co.uk> wrote:
[Snippy]
However, for FTTP the ONT (ie BT box) needs to be connected to the
router by Ethernet cable (which can be long) not telephone cable. The router also needs to be capable of connecting to ethernet WAN (which
many modern ones are). A new suitable router may be provided by your
ISP, but a long connecting cable is up to you.
Anyone have any idea how long the (Say Cat5e) cable from the ONT can be before it needs a booster?
Thanks
Dave
However, for FTTP the ONT (ie BT box) needs to be connected to the
router by Ethernet cable (which can be long) not telephone cable. The
router also needs to be capable of connecting to ethernet WAN (which
many modern ones are). A new suitable router may be provided by your
ISP, but a long connecting cable is up to you.
Anyone have any idea how long the (Say Cat5e) cable from the ONT can be before it needs a booster?
My router is at the top back of the house, a long way from where the BT phone line enters the front of the house. I get good coverage from there
so I don't want to move it to the front of the house.
The router can be anywhere in the house: it just passes network traffic from your LAN to your ISP's WAN.
But with fibre, I assume it has to be where the cable comes into the house?
Didn't matter before, as a few more feet of copper likely to make little difference.
That of course assumes the fibre plugs into the new router without an intermediate box.
In article <mpro.r2vtq405nk2xe038n.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
My router is at the top back of the house, a long way from where the BT
phone line enters the front of the house. I get good coverage from there >>> so I don't want to move it to the front of the house.
The router can be anywhere in the house: it just passes network traffic from >> your LAN to your ISP's WAN.
But with fibre, I assume it has to be where the cable comes into the house?
Didn't matter before, as a few more feet of copper likely to make little difference.
That of course assumes the fibre plugs into the new router without an intermediate box.
In article <mpro.r2vtq405nk2xe038n.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
The router can be anywhere in the house: it just passes network traffic from your LAN to your ISP's WAN.
But with fibre, I assume it has to be where the cable comes into the
house?
Didn't matter before, as a few more feet of copper likely to make little difference.
That of course assumes the fibre plugs into the new router without an intermediate box.
Didn't matter before, as a few more feet of copper likely to make little difference.
It matters even less now. "A few feet of copper" could easily be a very big deal to an ADSL signal, whereas it will make minimal difference to the ethernet data.
In message <598e961255dave@davenoise.co.uk>
"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
In article <mpro.r2vtq405nk2xe038n.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
My router is at the top back of the house, a long way from where the BT >>> phone line enters the front of the house. I get good coverage from there >>> so I don't want to move it to the front of the house.
The router can be anywhere in the house: it just passes network traffic from
your LAN to your ISP's WAN.
But with fibre, I assume it has to be where the cable comes into the house?
No the router can be elsewhere within reason, depends on your setup.
Didn't matter before, as a few more feet of copper likely to make little difference.
Openreach will install the Full Fibre within reason (ask nicely) in
another location, but the ONT must be near a power supply.
That of course assumes the fibre plugs into the new router without an intermediate box.
The router is linked to the ONT box which brings the full fibre into your property and the ONT is linked to your router by Ethernet cable (Cat 5e
cable which can support 1000Mbps can be up to 100 metre long)
On 21 Nov, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
<598e961255dave@davenoise.co.uk>:
In article <mpro.r2vtq405nk2xe038n.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
The router can be anywhere in the house: it just passes network
traffic from your LAN to your ISP's WAN.
But with fibre, I assume it has to be where the cable comes into the
house?
No, as I keep writing here: the Optical Network Terminator (ONT) is
what turns the fibre into copper, and /that/ needs to be wherever the Openreach installer will place it.
The router connects to the ONT via a standard ethernet cable with RJ45s
on the ends, and can be wherever you want it to be (within 100m, as
already discussed). It could be right next to the ONT, or it could be
exactly where your ADSL modem/router was, with CAT5 between it and the
ONT.
In article <mpro.r2x1v000s2jbz037c.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
On 21 Nov, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
<598e961255dave@davenoise.co.uk>:
In article <mpro.r2vtq405nk2xe038n.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
The router can be anywhere in the house: it just passes
network traffic from your LAN to your ISP's WAN.
But with fibre, I assume it has to be where the cable comes
into the house?
No, as I keep writing here: the Optical Network Terminator (ONT)
is what turns the fibre into copper, and /that/ needs to be
wherever the Openreach installer will place it.
The router connects to the ONT via a standard ethernet cable with
RJ45s on the ends, and can be wherever you want it to be (within
100m, as already discussed). It could be right next to the ONT,
or it could be exactly where your ADSL modem/router was, with
CAT5 between it and the ONT.
Conflicting statements here.
Steve & others say I have to tear up floorboards to run a CAT
cable, Theo says No, the ONT is placed where the fibre comes in,
from there it's copper (ethernet) and you can run that to wherever
you want the router so I can use the existing copper.
Conflicting statements here.
Steve & others say I have to tear up floorboards to run a CAT
cable, Theo says No, the ONT is placed where the fibre comes in,
from there it's copper (ethernet) and you can run that to wherever
you want the router so I can use the existing copper.
Steve & others say I have to tear up floorboards to run a CAT cable, Theo says No, the ONT is placed where the fibre comes in, from there it's
copper (ethernet) and you can run that to wherever you want the router so
I can use the existing copper.
I understand that in future I can plug a phone into an
adaptor that plugs into the router (it does not have
its own adaptor built in).
I'd like to read some information about such an adaptor.
I assume Russell is referring to an Analogue Telephone
Adapter (ATA), which is how to convert regular analogue
phones to VOIP.
You plug a phone cable from your router or ATA into the
green socket, and that pipes analogue phone signals to
your extensions.
If you've wired your existing internal phone extension
for the ADSL in CAT5, then you can, indeed, reuse that
cable to get the network connection from the ONT to your
existing router location. However, if you've used
standard UK phone twisted pair, which is what I suspect
most ADSL extensions will be, then you'll need to replace
that with CAT5 or better.
In article <aPf*upJzy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
You plug a phone cable from your router or ATA into the green socket,
and that pipes analogue phone signals to your extensions.
So it will not be just a matter of plugging a wire into one of the
ethernet sockets (RJ45) on the router and the other end into the green socket?
Instead I am going to need an ATA to plug into the router and then plug
that back into the existing wiring?
It all looks expensive!
In article <mpro.r2xe9b0372mtq037c.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
If you've wired your existing internal phone extension for the ADSL in
CAT5
I would imagine that many people's phone extensions pre-date ADSL? Mine certainly do, so yes, phone extensions are wired with standard UK phone twisted pair.
I am pretty familiar with wiring phone extensions, but no idea how you
would do phone wiring with CAT5 cable and RJ45 sockets when the phone has
a standard BT plug?
Not sure that I would want CAT5 cables (very much thicker than BT wire) running all around the house without trunking (which is often ugly) or chasing it into the wall and redecorating (which is a skilled job and potentially very expensive.
There's been a suggestion here (from Doug?) that the ONTs on offer now by Openreach don't have the phone connection, so it will presumably be in the router instead.
It probably can be, but for the average user, I'd expect that everything would be supplied as part of the package. The discussion that we're having here is definitely not "average".
On 21 Nov, Russell Hafter News wrote in message
<598f0a28bcsee.sig@russellhafter.me.invalid>:
In article <mpro.r2xe9b0372mtq037c.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
If you've wired your existing internal phone extension for the
ADSL in CAT5
[snip]
I would imagine that many people's phone extensions pre-date
ADSL? Mine certainly do, so yes, phone extensions are wired with
standard UK phone twisted pair.
Many people have run a new AB pair from the unfiltered side of a
filtered master socket, specifically for ADSL -- that way, all of
the old phone extensions can be filtered at the master socket, and
there's no need for filters on each phone.
Such an installation will probably still use three-pair phone wire,
not CAT5, but it could depend on what cable was to hand. Three-pair
phone wire is surprisingly hard to find in places like Homebase,
and can't be used for much else.
I am pretty familiar with wiring phone extensions, but no idea
how you would do phone wiring with CAT5 cable and RJ45 sockets
when the phone has a standard BT plug?
You wouldn't use RJ45 plugs? I'm fairly sure that you could
terminate solid-core CAT5 into UK phone sockets; the push-down tool
is certainly exchangeable with RJ11 and RJ45 sockets.
That said, RJ45 plug to UK phone socket adapters are a common
thing: in offices (before the days of IP phones), you'd just plug
the phones into spare network drops and patch the end in the comms
room back to the PABX accordingly.
Not sure that I would want CAT5 cables (very much thicker than BT
wire) running all around the house without trunking (which is
often ugly) or chasing it into the wall and redecorating (which
is a skilled job and potentially very expensive.
The two reels that I have here, of three-pair phone cable and CAT5,
are similar ODs. We're not talking significantly different sizes.
They've gone through several iterations, including providing a new copper pair for voice only, and running voice through the ONT. Those are all EOL now. New installs are getting the one-port modem without battery backup - the last picture on that page (not necessarily in that hinged outer cover as they depict, instead directly mounted on the wall). There's no phone socket because the new world order is that all voice is run from your ISP through their router. Openreach will no longer handle any voice services, it's all data from their point of view.
In message <mpro.r2y5fa08oqavt037c.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>
Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
There's been a suggestion here (from Doug?) that the ONTs on offer now by Openreach don't have the phone connection, so it will presumably be in the router instead.
Don't recall saying that and looking back at the thread I can't see any mention of it by me, but as ever happy to be corrected.
But just to help here are the ones that Openreach use:
https://www.bt.com/help/broadband/whats-an-openreach-modem-ont
The only thing I mentioned was the issues around Full fibre delivery of broadband whilst retaining copper for the phone service that is being withdrawn as well and the issues around that highlighted last year.
It probably can be, but for the average user, I'd expect that everything would be supplied as part of the package. The discussion that we're having here is definitely not "average".
Yep and thats why most companies will go for their packaged solution as it helps the migration and don't mention the lock in benefits :-)
If someone wants to go their own way then there are plenty of Voip
solution providers out there now that can be used.
On 21 Nov, Russell Hafter News wrote in message
<598f0a28bcsee.sig@russellhafter.me.invalid>:
In article
<mpro.r2xe9b0372mtq037c.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
If you've wired your existing internal phone
extension for the ADSL in CAT5
[snip]
I would imagine that many people's phone extensions
pre-date ADSL? Mine certainly do, so yes, phone
extensions are wired with standard UK phone twisted
pair.
Many people have run a new AB pair from the unfiltered
side of a filtered master socket, specifically for ADSL
-- that way, all of the old phone extensions can be
filtered at the master socket, and there's no need for
filters on each phone.
Such an installation will probably still use three-pair
phone wire, not CAT5, but it could depend on what cable
was to hand. Three-pair phone wire is surprisingly hard
to find in places like Homebase, and can't be used for
much else.
I am pretty familiar with wiring phone extensions, but
no idea how you would do phone wiring with CAT5 cable
and RJ45 sockets when the phone has a standard BT plug?
You wouldn't use RJ45 plugs? I'm fairly sure that you
could terminate solid-core CAT5 into UK phone sockets;
the push-down tool is certainly exchangeable with RJ11
and RJ45 sockets.
That said, RJ45 plug to UK phone socket adapters are a
common thing: in offices (before the days of IP phones),
you'd just plug the phones into spare network drops and
patch the end in the comms room back to the PABX
accordingly.
Not sure that I would want CAT5 cables (very much
thicker than BT wire) running all around the house
without trunking (which is often ugly) or chasing it
into the wall and redecorating (which is a skilled job
and potentially very expensive.
The two reels that I have here, of three-pair phone cable
and CAT5, are similar ODs. We're not talking
significantly different sizes.
In article
<mpro.r2y4ql07izwp4037c.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve
Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
Many people have run a new AB pair from the unfiltered
side of a filtered master socket, specifically for ADSL
-- that way, all of the old phone extensions can be
filtered at the master socket, and there's no need for
filters on each phone.
I have never heard of that one! I thought that you had to
use CAT5 for the ADSL side.
Presumably the phone cable still ends in an RJ11 socket?
Such an installation will probably still use three-pair
phone wire, not CAT5, but it could depend on what cable
was to hand. Three-pair phone wire is surprisingly hard
to find in places like Homebase, and can't be used for
much else.
Never seen three-pair phone wire (blue, orange and green) on
sale anywhere, though the original extensions in this house
are all three-pair. But I had never seen that until I moved
into it.
What was the point of the extra (green) pair? All the phone
instructions, even when there were six terminals, always
only referred to 4 wires.
That said, RJ45 plug to UK phone socket adapters are a
common thing: in offices (before the days of IP phones),
you'd just plug the phones into spare network drops and
patch the end in the comms room back to the PABX
accordingly.
Again, never seen RJ45 to BT adaptors, only RJ11 socket to
BT plug.
What I'm not clear about is whether an existing old style phone -
completely powered off the phone line - will still work and ring.
Thanks folks for the general notes, and thanks Theo for the links, most useful.
Dave
In message <598c28ce0fdave@triffid.co.uk>
Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
Thanks folks for the general notes, and thanks Theo for the
links, most useful.
Dave
Is the connection between the ONT an ethernet one, Can I use "wall
plugs" like Netgear?
My old phone has a switch labelled MODE: P-E,T-E & T-TB( T-E inNo idea.
use) - what's that all about.
My current Speed is 45.4 down & 15.8 up what does that say about my connection
In message <598c28ce0fdave@triffid.co.uk>
Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
Thanks folks for the general notes, and thanks Theo for the links, most useful.
Dave
Is the connection between the ONT an ethernet one, Can I use "wall plugs" like Netgear?
My old phone has a switch labelled MODE: P-E,T-E & T-TB( T-E in use) -
what's that all about.
My current Speed is 45.4 down & 15.8 up what does that say about my connection
In article <087d899159.ChrisCraig@btinternet.com>,
Chris Craig <chris@chriscraig.co.uk> wrote:
In message <598c28ce0fdave@triffid.co.uk>
Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
Thanks folks for the general notes, and thanks Theo for the
links, most useful.
Dave
Is the connection between the ONT an ethernet one, Can I use "wall
plugs" like Netgear?
You will have to be more specific.
But I suspect a wired connection would be better and more reliable.
Sime devices are 'wifi extenders' which tend to halve the speed.
Some transmit ethernet over the mains, which may work.
Whatever your internet speed is, and likk needs to be more than that,
and duplex (ie work both ways simultaneously).
My old phone has a switch labelled MODE: P-E,T-E & T-TB( T-E inNo idea.
use) - what's that all about.
My current Speed is 45.4 down & 15.8 up what does that say about my connection
It is probably a FTTC VDSL connection - possibly a 80mbis/s down and
20MB/s down link, but limited by the quality (length) of the copper
line from the cabinet, and your modem.
Chris Craig <chris@chriscraig.co.uk> wrote:
My old phone has a switch labelled MODE: P-E,T-E & T-TB( T-E in use) - what's that all about.
Possibly 'P' = pulse dialling, 'T' = tone dialling. I'm not sure what 'E' and 'TB' are.
In message <598c28ce0fdave@triffid.co.uk>
Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
Thanks folks for the general notes, and thanks Theo for the links, most
useful.
Dave
Is the connection between the ONT an ethernet one, Can I use "wall plugs" like Netgear?
My old phone has a switch labelled MODE: P-E,T-E & T-TB( T-E in use) -
what's that all about.
My current Speed is 45.4 down & 15.8 up what does that say about my connection
Chris
In article <5991935d44News03@avisoft.f9.co.uk>,
Martin <News03@avisoft.f9.co.uk> wrote:
Is the connection between the ONT an ethernet one, Can I use
"wall plugs" like Netgear?
You will have to be more specific. But I suspect a wired
connection would be better and more reliable. Sime devices are
'wifi extenders' which tend to halve the speed. Some transmit
ethernet over the mains, which may work. Whatever your internet
speed is, and likk needs to be more than that, and duplex (ie
work both ways simultaneously).
My old phone has a switch labelled MODE: P-E,T-E & T-TB( T-E inNo idea.
use) - what's that all about.
My current Speed is 45.4 down & 15.8 up what does that say
about my connection
It is probably a FTTC VDSL connection - possibly a 80mbis/s down
and 20MB/s down link, but limited by the quality (length) of the
copper line from the cabinet, and your modem.
I think Tim Hill noted something about this recently...
<Quote> "My internet router ended up in the kitchen where my cable
enters and it's connected to a homeplug; the gigabit switch in my
study is connected to another." </Quote>
My old phone has a switch labelled MODE: P-E,T-E & T-TB( T-E in use) -
what's that all about.
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