• Bad email

    From Dave@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 17 11:50:24 2021
    Enquiring on behalf of my dear wife I've twice written to DORO phones and received back emails that are not readable in any mail client apps I have
    and that includes Thunderbird on the PC side.

    Obviously was able to read them in a text editor or a Web browser, but
    it's an email...

    Perhaps some kind person might explain how a chap is supposed to read the following email using a mail client app?

    Thanks
    Dave

    ----------------------------------------------------

    <html>
    <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head> <body>Dear Sir,<br>
    <p>Please find attached this email a photo of what is a sim&nbsp;adaptor.</p><p>Unfortunately for clamshell devices easy to use as
    the Doro&nbsp;6620 and the 612 there is no software available that allows
    you to export and import contacts all in all from one device to the
    other.</p>
    <p>We apologise for the inconvenience this may have caused you.</p>Best regards,<br>
    <p>Anisa L.</p><div>DORO TECHNICAL SUPPORT<br>
    support.uk@doro.com&nbsp;<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',
    serif; font-size: 16px;">0800 026 5479</span>&nbsp;(UK), 1890.995.113
    (IE)<br>
    www.doro.co.uk<div><p><img src="cid:file1"></p><p><br><br>Le 16 févr.
    2021 22:14:00, Dave &lt;dave@triffid.co.uk&gt; a écrit
    :<br></p><blockquote type="cite">DORO support,

    <br>Thank you for replying, however it took some days for me to be able to <br>read your reply as NO Mail client apps I have would open it... Not even <br>Thunderbird on a Win PC.

    <br>I have no idea what app you use to write the EMAIL, but it looked more <br>like it was written in a web browser than in a mail client app.


    -----------------------------------------------------
    The rest snipped...

    --

    Dave Triffid

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  • From Martin@21:1/5 to Dave on Wed Feb 17 12:22:26 2021
    In article <59002e960bdave@triffid.co.uk>,
    Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
    Enquiring on behalf of my dear wife I've twice written to DORO
    phones and received back emails that are not readable in any mail
    client apps I have and that includes Thunderbird on the PC side.

    Obviously was able to read them in a text editor or a Web browser,
    but it's an email...

    Perhaps some kind person might explain how a chap is supposed to
    read the following email using a mail client app?

    Looks like a pure HTML email. Totally non-standard (which says there
    should also be a text version as well). But more and more are ignoring
    that. Damn them. Especially as many are laced with tracking code.

    I am suprised Thunderbird cannot read it - I am sure I have had
    similar.

    But as you are using Pluto, have you tried the HTML to Text facility?
    If you search the Help manual (F6) for "html to text" (with quotes)
    there is a page with that title. It is a bit simplistic, but may help.

    Martin

    --
    Martin Avison
    Note that unfortunately this email address will become invalid
    without notice if (when) any spam is received.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Higton@21:1/5 to Dave on Wed Feb 17 14:09:01 2021
    In message <59002e960bdave@triffid.co.uk>
    Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

    Enquiring on behalf of my dear wife I've twice written to DORO phones and >received back emails that are not readable in any mail client apps I have
    and that includes Thunderbird on the PC side.

    Obviously was able to read them in a text editor or a Web browser, but
    it's an email...

    Perhaps some kind person might explain how a chap is supposed to read the >following email using a mail client app?

    Thanks
    Dave

    ----------------------------------------------------

    <html>
    <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head> ><body>Dear Sir,<br>
    <p>Please find attached this email a photo of what is a
    sim&nbsp;adaptor.</p><p>Unfortunately for clamshell devices easy to use as >the Doro&nbsp;6620 and the 612 there is no software available that allows
    you to export and import contacts all in all from one device to the >other.</p>
    <p>We apologise for the inconvenience this may have caused you.</p>Best
    regards,<br>
    <p>Anisa L.</p><div>DORO TECHNICAL SUPPORT<br>
    support.uk@doro.com&nbsp;<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman',
    serif; font-size: 16px;">0800 026 5479</span>&nbsp;(UK), 1890.995.113 >(IE)<br>
    www.doro.co.uk<div><p><img src="cid:file1"></p><p><br><br>Le 16 févr.
    2021 22:14:00, Dave &lt;dave@triffid.co.uk&gt; a écrit >:<br></p><blockquote type="cite">DORO support,
    <br>
    <br>Thank you for replying, however it took some days for me to be able to ><br>read your reply as NO Mail client apps I have would open it... Not even ><br>Thunderbird on a Win PC.
    <br>
    <br>I have no idea what app you use to write the EMAIL, but it looked more ><br>like it was written in a web browser than in a mail client app.
    <br>

    -----------------------------------------------------
    The rest snipped...

    It looks like HTML.

    I copied out your selection as a file, added <body></html> to the end and
    typed the file as HTML. Double-clicking on it made NetSurf display it in
    a sensible form.

    But...

    When I submitted it to the W3C HTML validator, it wasn't even recognised
    as HTML. The validator came back with nothing.

    I'm only a beginner at HTML, but perhaps it's so badly broken as to be unrecognisable.

    As Martin has said, it's wrong for an email to contain only an HTML
    version - there should be some text there, even if it's only to tell
    you to use an HTML-compatible mail client.

    David

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  • From Dave@21:1/5 to Martin on Wed Feb 17 21:28:31 2021
    In article <5900318526News03@avisoft.f9.co.uk>,
    Martin <News03@avisoft.f9.co.uk> wrote:
    In article <59002e960bdave@triffid.co.uk>,
    Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
    Enquiring on behalf of my dear wife I've twice written to DORO
    phones and received back emails that are not readable in any mail
    client apps I have and that includes Thunderbird on the PC side.

    Obviously was able to read them in a text editor or a Web browser,
    but it's an email...

    Perhaps some kind person might explain how a chap is supposed to
    read the following email using a mail client app?

    Looks like a pure HTML email. Totally non-standard (which says there
    should also be a text version as well). But more and more are ignoring
    that. Damn them. Especially as many are laced with tracking code.

    I am suprised Thunderbird cannot read it - I am sure I have had
    similar.

    But as you are using Pluto, have you tried the HTML to Text facility?
    If you search the Help manual (F6) for "html to text" (with quotes)
    there is a page with that title. It is a bit simplistic, but may help.

    Martin

    Mmnn!

    One of my first ports of call is the Pluto HTML to Text [Ctrl-Shift-G] facility... but in this instance nothing happens. :-)

    At the top of the posting is:

    ------=_Part_7_874839221.1613554518121
    Content-Type: multipart/related;
    boundary="----=_Part_8_1873492522.1613554518121"

    Followed by a blank body.

    Three attachments, 'File 0' that's the Html content, 'File1.jpeg' The DORO company logo and a .docx file containing an illo of the SIM adaptor.

    If I take the 'File 0' and drop it on RISC OS NetSurf it displays the Body
    of the text okay... But not the attachments or the jpg graphic.


    Now to the PC side...

    Strange business...
    Today when I Exported out of Pluto, took it Win side and dropped it into Thunderbird it displayed okay including attachments.

    Didn't do that yesterday... Maybe it was the way I did it... I don't
    remember.

    Yesterday I ended up reading it in Firefox.

    Ah well, at least I can read them now...

    Thanks for the thoughts folks. Appreciated.

    Dave

    --

    Dave Triffid

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  • From Martin@21:1/5 to Dave on Wed Feb 17 23:28:50 2021
    In article <59006383bcdave@triffid.co.uk>,
    Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
    In article <5900318526News03@avisoft.f9.co.uk>,
    Martin <News03@avisoft.f9.co.uk> wrote:
    In article <59002e960bdave@triffid.co.uk>,
    Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

    [Snip]

    But as you are using Pluto, have you tried the HTML to Text
    facility? If you search the Help manual (F6) for "html to text"
    (with quotes) there is a page with that title. It is a bit
    simplistic, but may help.

    One of my first ports of call is the Pluto HTML to Text
    [Ctrl-Shift-G] facility... but in this instance nothing happens.
    :-)

    At the top of the posting is:

    ------=_Part_7_874839221.1613554518121
    Content-Type: multipart/related;
    boundary="----=_Part_8_1873492522.1613554518121"

    Followed by a blank body.

    That seems to me that either the headers are badly broken ... or Pluto
    is. If you want to send me a zip of the complete original email from
    the !PLUTO.backup.Mail... directory I will have a look.

    Martin

    --
    Martin Avison
    Note that unfortunately this email address will become invalid
    without notice if (when) any spam is received.

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  • From Dave@21:1/5 to Martin on Thu Feb 18 09:09:06 2021
    In article <59006e87aeNews03@avisoft.f9.co.uk>,
    Martin <News03@avisoft.f9.co.uk> wrote:

    [Snip]

    That seems to me that either the headers are badly broken ... or Pluto
    is. If you want to send me a zip of the complete original email from
    the !PLUTO.backup.Mail... directory I will have a look.

    Martin

    Thanks Martin,
    I've zipped it up and sent to the pluto address.

    Dave

    --

    Dave Triffid

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  • From Russell Hafter News@21:1/5 to Dave on Thu Feb 18 10:53:47 2021
    In article <59006383bcdave@triffid.co.uk>,
    Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

    I am suprised Thunderbird cannot read it - I am sure I
    have had similar.

    But as you are using Pluto, have you tried the HTML to
    Text facility? If you search the Help manual (F6) for
    "html to text" (with quotes) there is a page with that
    title. It is a bit simplistic, but may help.

    Martin

    Mmnn!

    One of my first ports of call is the Pluto HTML to Text
    [Ctrl-Shift-G] facility... but in this instance nothing
    happens. :-)

    Did you try highlighting just a chunk of the e-mail first,
    before doing HTML to Text?

    Holiday Inn and its associated companies frequently send me
    e-mails with just one or two paragraphs that include HTML
    markup, with the rest as more-or-less legible text (ie
    legible, but not always comprehensible).

    Highlighting the relevant para and then HTML to Text solves
    the problem every time.

    --
    Russell
    Russell Hafter
    E-mail to russell at russellhafter dot me dot uk
    Need a hotel? <http://www.hrs.com/?client=en__blue&customerId=416873103> Friendly web hosting <https://www.xencentrichosting.uk/billing/aff.php?aff=7>

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  • From Dave@21:1/5 to Russell Hafter News on Thu Feb 18 12:29:45 2021
    In article <5900ad3d5fsee.sig@russellhafter.me.invalid>,
    Russell Hafter News <see.sig@russellhafter.me.invalid> wrote:
    In article <59006383bcdave@triffid.co.uk>,
    Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

    [Snip]

    Mmnn!

    One of my first ports of call is the Pluto HTML to Text
    [Ctrl-Shift-G] facility... but in this instance nothing
    happens. :-)

    Did you try highlighting just a chunk of the e-mail first,
    before doing HTML to Text?

    Holiday Inn and its associated companies frequently send me
    e-mails with just one or two paragraphs that include HTML
    markup, with the rest as more-or-less legible text (ie
    legible, but not always comprehensible).

    Highlighting the relevant para and then HTML to Text solves
    the problem every time.

    Hehehehe you are a caution Russell. :-)
    In my second post I write, "Followed by a blank body" There's no chunk to hilight... Tiz empty. :-)

    Dave

    Nb: Martin has posted me a possible solution, I'll test this afternoon.

    D.

    --

    Dave Triffid

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  • From Martin@21:1/5 to Dave on Thu Feb 18 14:21:25 2021
    In article <59002e960bdave@triffid.co.uk>,
    Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
    Enquiring on behalf of my dear wife I've twice written to DORO
    phones and received back emails that are not readable in any mail
    client apps I have and that includes Thunderbird on the PC side.

    Obviously was able to read them in a text editor or a Web browser,
    but it's an email...

    Perhaps some kind person might explain how a chap is supposed to
    read the following email using a mail client app?

    After Dave passed me the offending email, I suggested a way that might
    enable him to reply to the message. As it worked for Dave, I will
    include it here in case it helps anyone else.

    The cause of the problem is an unusual attachment header that is seen
    when the mail is opened in Pluto - ie the three or so lines which
    contain:
    Content-Type: multipart/related;

    When I looked it up it seems that it is a bit of an oddity - it even
    has a standard (RFC2387) all of its own. It sounds like it was an
    'extension' to the standards implemented by some some programs
    (Macintosh is mentioned, need I say more?!) to cater for the case
    where 'multiple body parts make sense only in the aggregate'. Which I
    think means that several attached files should be displayed as one.

    In this case it was the file1.jpeg which was to be displayed as part
    of the HTML message. Why that is necessary, I have no idea, because
    normally Pluto will associate such files without problem, as it
    adjusts the references when copied to Wimp$Scrap.

    What the real implications of this strange header are for Pluto I have
    not worked out yet (and may never!) but I have found a way to reply
    to the message in Pluto:

    When displayed in Pluto, it shows the 3 strange header lines as text,
    and 3 attached files: File 0, file1.jpeg, and Sim adaptors.docx.

    Click on the Reply icon and then click Edit.
    Drag File 0 from the attachment window into the text area.
    Click OK to load into text area.
    This should display the HTML text.
    Press Shift-Ctrl-G to convert to text
    Close the window
    Click Save

    You may want to do some more editing of the text, before you click
    Reply to actually compose your reply.

    Martin

    --
    Martin Avison
    Note that unfortunately this email address will become invalid
    without notice if (when) any spam is received.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Russell Hafter News@21:1/5 to dave@triffid.co.uk on Thu Feb 18 14:45:39 2021
    In article <5900b6068adave@triffid.co.uk>, Dave
    <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
    In article <5900ad3d5fsee.sig@russellhafter.me.invalid>,
    Russell Hafter News <see.sig@russellhafter.me.invalid>
    wrote:
    In article <59006383bcdave@triffid.co.uk>, Dave
    <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

    [Snip]

    Mmnn!

    One of my first ports of call is the Pluto HTML to
    Text [Ctrl-Shift-G] facility... but in this instance
    nothing happens. :-)

    Did you try highlighting just a chunk of the e-mail
    first, before doing HTML to Text?

    Holiday Inn and its associated companies frequently
    send me e-mails with just one or two paragraphs that
    include HTML markup, with the rest as more-or-less
    legible text (ie legible, but not always
    comprehensible).

    Highlighting the relevant para and then HTML to Text
    solves the problem every time.

    Hehehehe you are a caution Russell. :-) In my second
    post I write,

    When I wrote this, you had not sent your second post.

    I sent it, but it never arrived. So I just sent it again
    today without a lot of thinking.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    [And not in the best of moods at present. Spent 30 mins
    trawling through my partner's webmail trash, looking for an
    e-mail I knew she had been sent, but she insisted had been
    sent to me. It **was** there. Then print the e-mail to a pdf
    so that it could be sent as an attachment to amazon.

    Turned out to be one of those e-mails that only prints as
    one page, and you have to keep reducing the size of the
    document until you have all of it.

    I had done the above on my own machines, where I know -
    roughly - what I am doing. But she has a fancy Win 10
    laptop, and I forget to take a mouse with me when trying to
    do things on that machine and... and... and...

    Dreading the thought of having to get Win 10 at some stage
    in the future - I still cannot get my head around the way
    one is supposed to navigate the filing system on Win 10]

    --
    Russell
    Russell Hafter
    E-mail to russell at russellhafter dot me dot uk
    Need a hotel? <http://www.hrs.com/?client=en__blue&customerId=416873103> Friendly web hosting <https://www.xencentrichosting.uk/billing/aff.php?aff=7>

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  • From Dave@21:1/5 to Russell Hafter News on Thu Feb 18 16:17:03 2021
    In article <5900c277c3see.sig@russellhafter.me.invalid>,
    Russell Hafter News <see.sig@russellhafter.me.invalid> wrote:
    [Snippy]
    Dreading the thought of having to get Win 10 at some stage
    in the future - I still cannot get my head around the way
    one is supposed to navigate the filing system on Win 10]

    I've found the filing system on Win 10 quite easy to use/navigate.

    Among the list of urinating items though, top of the list is
    configurations.

    Control Panel is and will be removed at some point, so the original single place to start configs, which was concise, based on icons and was easy to
    get at and navigate is slowly being replaced by a tabletised replacement
    sans icons, so now the configs are all over the place and difficult to
    read... And find.

    There is an obsession by app writers these day to use light grey lettering
    (*) so not only is it sometimes difficult to see the text but impossible
    to tell if it is active or as is traditional, greyed out because the
    option is not available.

    (*) I enquired about this and was informed Black text is assertive and aggressive which upsets some people (Bloody snowflakes) so the decision generally was to use shades of Grey.

    Oops! Sorry I went off a bit (GM rattling the cage), but cissy facing everything is one of my pet hates.

    Dave

    They should all be made to push a rock up a hill forever... ;-)

    D.

    --

    Dave Triffid

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  • From Nick Roberts@21:1/5 to Dave on Thu Feb 18 17:30:48 2021
    In message <5900cad5a6dave@triffid.co.uk>
    Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

    There is an obsession by app writers these day to use light grey
    lettering (*) so not only is it sometimes difficult to see the text
    but impossible to tell if it is active or as is traditional, greyed
    out because the option is not available.

    (*) I enquired about this and was informed Black text is assertive
    and aggressive which upsets some people (Bloody snowflakes) so the
    decision generally was to use shades of Grey.

    ... because dark grey text on a pale grey background is /sooooooo/ easy
    to read, especially if age is catching up with your vision and your
    eyes have problems with poor contrast...

    --
    Nick Roberts tigger @ orpheusinternet.co.uk

    Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which
    can be adequately explained by stupidity.

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  • From Dave@21:1/5 to Nick Roberts on Thu Feb 18 18:40:53 2021
    In article <3b96d10059.tigger@bc63.orpheusinternet.co.uk>,
    Nick Roberts <tigger@orpheusinternet.co.uk> wrote:
    In message <5900cad5a6dave@triffid.co.uk>
    Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

    There is an obsession by app writers these day to use light grey
    lettering (*) so not only is it sometimes difficult to see the text
    but impossible to tell if it is active or as is traditional, greyed
    out because the option is not available.

    (*) I enquired about this and was informed Black text is assertive
    and aggressive which upsets some people (Bloody snowflakes) so the
    decision generally was to use shades of Grey.

    ... because dark grey text on a pale grey background is /sooooooo/ easy
    to read, especially if age is catching up with your vision and your
    eyes have problems with poor contrast...


    Personal preferences I guess...

    I have a light grey background to much of my stuff, Computer desktops,
    Filer windows, Pluto windows backgrounds etc, but I must have Black text otherwise I can't see it properly.

    I think my only exceptions are Zap... Black window and white text followed
    by StrongED when I'm forced to use it, same as Zap.

    SWMBO on the other hand who does have eye troubles, needs a very light background and Black text. For her grey text is useless unless it is a
    VERY dark version.

    Dave

    --

    Dave Triffid

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  • From Dave@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 18 18:27:59 2021
    I can confirm, Martin's solution to the problem works a treat.

    Dave

    --

    Dave Triffid

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  • From Stuart@21:1/5 to Dave on Thu Feb 18 22:21:15 2021
    In article <5900d800dfdave@triffid.co.uk>,
    Dave <dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
    Personal preferences I guess...

    I have a light grey background to much of my stuff, Computer desktops,
    Filer windows, Pluto windows backgrounds etc, but I must have Black text otherwise I can't see it properly.

    Here on my Iyonix I have a pale yellow desktop, pretty well everything
    shows up clearly without the "dazzle" of white.

    --
    Stuart Winsor

    Tools With A Mission
    sending tools across the world
    http://www.twam.co.uk/

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