Defecant_Linux_Luser_Numero_Uno is a very angry person with some serious
mental issues. He needs to make an appointment with a good shrink.
It seems to be common in the Linux community for some odd reason.
Thanks for the explanation.
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:24:19 +0000 (UTC), Godzilla
<godzilla@lizardboss.invalid> Gave us:
It appears that trip would only be a couple inches, however.
Disappointing Decadumper, not even 3 inches.
Must be a bitch to break a Viagra into 6 pieces.
It is a reference to how far your head is up your ass, such that your asshole and your mouth are only a couple inches apart..
Nice try, though, punk.
On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 09:48:17 -0400, Caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> Gave
us:
snip
This one is 135 Watts. Would (may) only need an output plug
changeout.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012HW5A9O
And no, the wattage does not have to match the original. More is
better. It is just a declaration of what the supply is able to provide.
Your device still uses only what it uses. It merely has a better
likelihood of providing a cleaner DC feed, and exhibiting less heat
while doing so.
"DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno" <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote in message >news:h0l42b9lagljk7affel3lvbcjk4pbjt7ic@4ax.com...
On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 09:48:17 -0400, Caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> Gave
us:
snip
This one is 135 Watts. Would (may) only need an output plug
changeout.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012HW5A9O
And no, the wattage does not have to match the original. More is
better. It is just a declaration of what the supply is able to provide.
Your device still uses only what it uses. It merely has a better
likelihood of providing a cleaner DC feed, and exhibiting less heat
while doing so.
ASUS representative said...
"A higher wattage AC adapter can cause damage to battery overtime.
Thus, it is not recommended."
Is this true?
System: ASUS N61JQ (laptop)
Host OS: Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
After a power outage yesterday, pressing the power button of
ASUS laptop does nothing. The laptop was/is connected to
an APC battery backup (surge protection only) outlet (via AC adapter).
AC adapter's green light is "on".
Any ideas?
try removing all power (including the battery).
This is OT but anyone know how to find a dental hygienist,
with whom you've lost touch (because
the "new" owner wants that relationship severed)?
The previous owner retired.
[Alan L. Grimm, DDS, Milpitas, CA]
And, I don't know her last name.
On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:17:01 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> Gave us:
snip
This is OT but anyone know how to find a dental hygienist,Well with a name like Alan, I'll bet she has a pretty low voice an a
with whom you've lost touch (because
the "new" owner wants that relationship severed)?
The previous owner retired.
[Alan L. Grimm, DDS, Milpitas, CA]
And, I don't know her last name.
fairly large clit! :-)
That advice is always correct, except when it isn't.
Designers sometimes do stupid things to reduce costs.
Sometimes advisers extrapolate their experience to situations
where it doesn't apply and express it with arrogance.
Check out the schematic for a Compaq Aero 4-25.
The only thing between the battery and the charge jack is a FET switch.
They use the current limit in the power brick to limit the charge
current. If you use a charger with a higher current limit, you overheat
the battery.
If you use an unlimited current source, the FET catches fire.
Somewhere around here I have a motherbord with a hole burned in it.
Expressing advice concisely and completely with maximum arrogance
to a newbie without a voltmeter or the
means or understanding to verify the advice is irresponsible...
even if it is correct ALMOST all of the time.
Sometimes, the advice doesn't apply.
On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:54:19 -0700, mike <ham789@netzero.net> Gave us:
If you use an unlimited current source, the FET catches fire.
Somewhere around here I have a motherbord with a hole burned in it.
Maybe you should learn how to spell 'motherboard' before you go
expounding on them.
Current is limited already because it is set by the voltage presented,
not the capacity of the supply to feed a load.
You are an electrical idiot as well, I see.
That advice is always correct, except when it isn't.
Designers sometimes do stupid things to reduce costs.
Sometimes advisers extrapolate their experience to situations
where it doesn't apply and express it with arrogance.
Check out the schematic for a Compaq Aero 4-25.
The only thing between the battery and the charge jack is a FET switch.
They use the current limit in the power brick to limit the charge
current. If you use a charger with a higher current limit, you overheat
the battery.
If you use an unlimited current source, the FET catches fire.
Somewhere around here I have a motherbord with a hole burned in it.
Expressing advice concisely and completely with maximum arrogance
to a newbie without a voltmeter or the
means or understanding to verify the advice is irresponsible...
even if it is correct ALMOST all of the time.
Sometimes, the advice doesn't apply.
On 10/20/2015 1:03 PM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:54:19 -0700, mike <ham789@netzero.net> Gave us:Perhaps if you read the text instead of snipping it, you'd have seen the >example that contradicts your arrogance.
If you use an unlimited current source, the FET catches fire.
Somewhere around here I have a motherbord with a hole burned in it.
Maybe you should learn how to spell 'motherboard' before you go
expounding on them.
Current is limited already because it is set by the voltage presented,
not the capacity of the supply to feed a load.
You are an electrical idiot as well, I see.
So far, three UTI's on this post.
Wonder if I can trade 'em in for something useful? I sure have a lot
of 'em.
On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:50:22 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> Gave us:
No. A battery is charged by voltage. It requires a voltage greater
"DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno" <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote in message >>news:h0l42b9lagljk7affel3lvbcjk4pbjt7ic@4ax.com...
On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 09:48:17 -0400, Caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> Gave
us:
snip
This one is 135 Watts. Would (may) only need an output plug
changeout.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012HW5A9O
And no, the wattage does not have to match the original. More is
better. It is just a declaration of what the supply is able to provide. >>> Your device still uses only what it uses. It merely has a better
likelihood of providing a cleaner DC feed, and exhibiting less heat
while doing so.
ASUS representative said...
"A higher wattage AC adapter can cause damage to battery overtime.
Thus, it is not recommended."
Is this true?
than the battery's operating voltage. That is usually managed by a
watchdog chip/circuit. They operate from within a specific input
voltage range and ONLY feed the battery the voltage it needs. And they
stop the charging cycle when they are through. You'll notice this same behavior on your smart phone and some laptops when they say "not
charging" even though you attached an external source.
An adaptor that can put out 65W does so comfortably and without
exhibiting heat or feeding a noisy rail (ripple). That means if they
get fully loaded to the 65W rating, they are supposed to work at that
level 24/7/365, as in "full duty cycle". A higher power, same voltage
supply does the same thing and at it rated power when loaded to that
level. If you hook it up to a lesser load, it will pull less and run
cooler and exhibit less ripple.
So essentially he couldn't be more wrong if he tried.
It is incorrect to attach a higher voltage supply, but NOT incorrect
to attach a higher wattage supply. The wattage rating declares the work which it is capable of doing.. It does not "feed more" if the load has
not changed, and it has not. The device acts no differently simply
because a more capable, quieter running power unit got attached.
As long as the voltage matches, the device will draw no more power than
it did on the other power supply device.
I can not explain it more concisely, because that covers it
completely.
You can tell him I said he is wrong, and needs to go back to bullshit salesman school.
You missed a golden opportunity.
On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:50:22 -0700, "Adam" <adam@no_thanks.com> Gave us:
No. A battery is charged by voltage. It requires a voltage greater
"DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno" <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote in message >> news:h0l42b9lagljk7affel3lvbcjk4pbjt7ic@4ax.com...
On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 09:48:17 -0400, Caver1 <caver1@inthemud.org> Gave
us:
snip
This one is 135 Watts. Would (may) only need an output plug
changeout.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012HW5A9O
And no, the wattage does not have to match the original. More is
better. It is just a declaration of what the supply is able to provide. >>> Your device still uses only what it uses. It merely has a better
likelihood of providing a cleaner DC feed, and exhibiting less heat
while doing so.
ASUS representative said...
"A higher wattage AC adapter can cause damage to battery overtime.
Thus, it is not recommended."
Is this true?
than the battery's operating voltage. That is usually managed by a
watchdog chip/circuit. They operate from within a specific input
voltage range and ONLY feed the battery the voltage it needs. And they
stop the charging cycle when they are through. You'll notice this same behavior on your smart phone and some laptops when they say "not
charging" even though you attached an external source.
An adaptor that can put out 65W does so comfortably and without
exhibiting heat or feeding a noisy rail (ripple). That means if they
get fully loaded to the 65W rating, they are supposed to work at that
level 24/7/365, as in "full duty cycle". A higher power, same voltage
supply does the same thing and at it rated power when loaded to that
level. If you hook it up to a lesser load, it will pull less and run
cooler and exhibit less ripple.
So essentially he couldn't be more wrong if he tried.
It is incorrect to attach a higher voltage supply, but NOT incorrect
to attach a higher wattage supply. The wattage rating declares the work which it is capable of doing.. It does not "feed more" if the load has
not changed, and it has not. The device acts no differently simply
because a more capable, quieter running power unit got attached.
As long as the voltage matches, the device will draw no more power than
it did on the other power supply device.
I can not explain it more concisely, because that covers it
completely.
You can tell him I said he is wrong, and needs to go back to bullshit salesman school.
Even 20 years later, there are engineers still fucking up
designs. You find out after it's too late.
I'm merely responding to the knowitalls who state with
authority that they have all the answers, when they really
don't actually know EVERYTHING.
mike wrote:
Even 20 years later, there are engineers still fucking up
designs. You find out after it's too late.
The charger industry is proud of abusing electronic
components to come up with cheaper and cheaper
solutions.
This is why my Black and Decker cordless screwdriver
reduced three battery packs to puddles of goo. The
charging solution has absolutely no merit at all
(no charge termination).
On the other hand, I like my car battery charger,
which uses only a transformer and selenium rectifiers
to make a "high impedance" charging circuit.
The packaging
claims an amount of current will flow, which is never
achieved. So it's pretty hard to cook a battery (or
charge it quickly) with the charger.
But in terms
of construction, they couldn't make it much cheaper -
removing the selenium rectifier thingy would leave
you with only an AC transformer.
If your laptop had NiCd batteries in it, I'm sure they
could have cut a few more corners.
It's the fact that Lithium Ion battery packs are
so dangerous (from a corporate liability point of view),
that a lot more care is put into them.
If it wasn't
for Lithium Ion, we might never have seen precision
charging chips.
mike wrote:
Even 20 years later, there are engineers still fucking up
designs. You find out after it's too late.
The charger industry is proud of abusing electronic
components to come up with cheaper and cheaper
solutions.
This is why my Black and Decker cordless screwdriver
reduced three battery packs to puddles of goo. The
charging solution has absolutely no merit at all
(no charge termination).
On the other hand, I like my car battery charger,
which uses only a transformer and selenium rectifiers
to make a "high impedance" charging circuit. The packaging
claims an amount of current will flow, which is never
achieved. So it's pretty hard to cook a battery (or
charge it quickly) with the charger. But in terms
of construction, they couldn't make it much cheaper -
removing the selenium rectifier thingy would leave
you with only an AC transformer.
If your laptop had NiCd batteries in it, I'm sure they
could have cut a few more corners.
It's the fact that Lithium Ion battery packs are
so dangerous (from a corporate liability point of view),
that a lot more care is put into them. If it wasn't
for Lithium Ion, we might never have seen precision
charging chips.
Paul
mike wrote:
That advice is always correct, except when it isn't.
Designers sometimes do stupid things to reduce costs.
Sometimes advisers extrapolate their experience to situations
where it doesn't apply and express it with arrogance.
Check out the schematic for a Compaq Aero 4-25.
The only thing between the battery and the charge jack is a FET switch.
They use the current limit in the power brick to limit the charge
current. If you use a charger with a higher current limit, you overheat
the battery.
If you use an unlimited current source, the FET catches fire.
Somewhere around here I have a motherbord with a hole burned in it.
Expressing advice concisely and completely with maximum arrogance
to a newbie without a voltmeter or the
means or understanding to verify the advice is irresponsible...
even if it is correct ALMOST all of the time.
Sometimes, the advice doesn't apply.
You missed a golden opportunity.
I already provided a link from badcaps.net, with a
*schematic* for the laptop. Apply for a login account,
so you can download the schematic. I already had an account
on badcaps, so could get this immediately.
"ASUS N61JQ won't start"
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=42461
You can apply your keen analytical skills to that schematic
and tell us how the unit works.
PDF page 89 has the battery controller (MB39A132).
PDF page 60 has the DC jack with inductive surge (undershoot) protection.
And to help you on your way, this doc gives you an
overview on the MB39A132 feature set.
"DC/DC Converter IC for Charging Li-ion Batteries MB39A132 ..." http://www.fujitsu.com/downloads/EDG/binary/pdf/find/26-3e/7.pdf
What do you notice on Figure 9 Page 5 ? It uses an SMPS
with high side/low side MOSFETs for controlling the charging
of the battery.
What can you feed an SMPS with ? All sorts of stuff.
Very flexible. What may not be flexible, is some of the
voltage thresholds set to work with a 19V adapter.
(The chip detects when the AC adapter is plugged in.)
I got a datasheet for the MB39A132 here. But that
isn't necessary needed right away.
http://master-chip.ru/store/files/b75d64b3-f625-774c-9992-25c047244b48/mb39a132.pdf
*******Well, these newsgroups last forever. Just because you know what
Your quoted material, is from a 20 year old laptop,
a laptop with NiMH battery technology. What are
the odds that a current generation laptop is
as crude as that ? You yourself contributed to
this faq.
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/pc-hardware-faq/laptops/compaq-aero/
Paul
"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message news:n07es3$p59$1@dont-email.me...
mike wrote:
Even 20 years later, there are engineers still fucking upThe charger industry is proud of abusing electronic
designs. You find out after it's too late.
components to come up with cheaper and cheaper
solutions.
This is why my Black and Decker cordless screwdriver
reduced three battery packs to puddles of goo. The
charging solution has absolutely no merit at all
(no charge termination).
On the other hand, I like my car battery charger,
which uses only a transformer and selenium rectifiers
to make a "high impedance" charging circuit. The packaging
claims an amount of current will flow, which is never
achieved. So it's pretty hard to cook a battery (or
charge it quickly) with the charger. But in terms
of construction, they couldn't make it much cheaper -
removing the selenium rectifier thingy would leave
you with only an AC transformer.
If your laptop had NiCd batteries in it, I'm sure they
could have cut a few more corners.
It's the fact that Lithium Ion battery packs are
so dangerous (from a corporate liability point of view),
that a lot more care is put into them. If it wasn't
for Lithium Ion, we might never have seen precision
charging chips.
Paul
Thanks (Guru Paul, et al), for the clarification.
I think everyone is "right" but just saying
the same thing in their own unique ways.
Sorry, I should have been more clear.
Let me rephrase...
For laptops (or more valuable equipment nowadays),
if I stick with a compatible voltage (19V) AC adapter with
sufficient power (90+W), I should be fine since
more and more safety measures (like sensors) are
designed in to protect valuable equipment.
Safety measures designed in is directly proportional to
value of equipment (both increase/decrease together).
Any recommendations on resources (books, magazines, websites, etc.) on
power for newbies?
Adam wrote:
"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
news:n07es3$p59$1@dont-email.me...
mike wrote:
Even 20 years later, there are engineers still fucking upThe charger industry is proud of abusing electronic
designs. You find out after it's too late.
components to come up with cheaper and cheaper
solutions.
This is why my Black and Decker cordless screwdriver
reduced three battery packs to puddles of goo. The
charging solution has absolutely no merit at all
(no charge termination).
On the other hand, I like my car battery charger,
which uses only a transformer and selenium rectifiers
to make a "high impedance" charging circuit. The packaging
claims an amount of current will flow, which is never
achieved. So it's pretty hard to cook a battery (or
charge it quickly) with the charger. But in terms
of construction, they couldn't make it much cheaper -
removing the selenium rectifier thingy would leave
you with only an AC transformer.
If your laptop had NiCd batteries in it, I'm sure they
could have cut a few more corners.
It's the fact that Lithium Ion battery packs are
so dangerous (from a corporate liability point of view),
that a lot more care is put into them. If it wasn't
for Lithium Ion, we might never have seen precision
charging chips.
Paul
Thanks (Guru Paul, et al), for the clarification.
I think everyone is "right" but just saying
the same thing in their own unique ways.
Sorry, I should have been more clear.
Let me rephrase...
For laptops (or more valuable equipment nowadays),
if I stick with a compatible voltage (19V) AC adapter with
sufficient power (90+W), I should be fine since
more and more safety measures (like sensors) are
designed in to protect valuable equipment.
Safety measures designed in is directly proportional to
value of equipment (both increase/decrease together).
Any recommendations on resources (books, magazines, websites, etc.) on
power for newbies?
Most of what I've learned, was by analysing stuff (schematics),
or learning by making mistakes.
To illustrate, there are three kinds of adapters for
consumer electronics. These are general categories.
1) AC adapter (it's just a transformer)
2) Unregulated DC adapter (transformer, rectifiers, filter cap)
DC voltage varies with loading.
3) Regulated DC adapter (SMPS, similar to ATX power supply design,
isolated for shock protection, overcurrent detection with
various behaviors on overcurrent). Complete switch-off being
a common overcurrent behavior). Connect a 2 amp light bulb
to a 2 amp adapter, it will shut off. Why ? The bulb draws
4 amps when it is cold, trips the OC immediately, and the
adapter shuts off.
OK, I bought a label maker one day. It had provision for battery
operation. You were supposed to pour $$$ worth of dry cells into
the thing. An optional adapter was available, at $50 !!!
Well, naturally, being a cheap-skate, I wanted neither dry cells
nor a $50 adapter.
On the housing of the unit, next to the barrel connector for power,
it said "7VDC", and had the symbol for center-positive power. So
I bought a *regulated* 7VDC adapter and plugged it in. I verified
the adapter made exactly 7V, and it did do that. With a fairly high
current rating (so not likely to poop out on OC).
So I try to print a label, and... nothing.
So I eventually break down and buy the optional adapter for $50.
Turns out it is unregulated. At no load, the adapter makes *10V*
and at the instant the motor cranks the label through the print
area, the voltage drops down to 7V due to the increased current
draw.
So it really needed the elevated (unspecified) 10V voltage to make
the keyboard and display and control chip work.
That lesson taught me, that the specification printed on
the housing ("7VDC") could be regulated or unregulated, and
there is no way to know which is appropriate. They kinda got you
by the nuts.
And that's learning by making mistakes.
As for your laptop, I don't see a reason in what I've seen
in the schematic so far, for there to be a dependency on adapter
power rating. Your laptop is the 90W design. A 19V adapter
of 90W or 135W should work. The charging circuit has control
of what it is doing, and is not dependent on external impedance characteristics. The charger chip has slow start (inrush limit),
so if the adapter is already plugged into the wall and you
shove the barrel into the laptop jack, the adapter doesn't
quit on OC. There is a clamp diode near the jack, so if the
barrel is removed while the adapter is powered, the inductive
kick-back is quenched. The design has a current sampling shunt,
which implies the chip can sense the current. And knows if
too much current is being drawn. And it has a fair number
of MOSFETs to control various things. As long as MOSFETs are
saturated (fully ON or fully OFF), they don't get all that
warm. And that's important. It's easy to burn out a MOSFET
with no heatsink, by turning it half-ON by design. This is
why SMPS circuits take turns with MOSFETs fully ON or fully OFF,
to achieve a desired result. The devices then get warm but
not hot.
There are adapters that have more than two wires, and that
immediately makes me suspicious. It implies some form of
control, or "adapter power rating checking" being done
by the laptop. That tends to happen with stuff above
65W. You're likely to find 65W designs to be pretty simple
and carefree. Anything above that, you should keep your
eyes open, and do a bit of Googling to learn of the
issues.
Paul
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