Dear c.s.a.p,Hope you received it, if not check it is not mistaken for spam by your
First question [and it maybe obsolete by the time you read this] is
about the DDE. I just sent a payment to ROOL (?) but did not get
an immediate download link. Is this normal? I believe I bought the
.zip download /only/ but I have no records of what exactly was bought
[yet.]
What is a good way to get started with programming for RISC OS? I usedOk
to have an emulator with RISC OS about a decade or more ago, and back
then I played a bit with GCC, but never got really far, and I've pretty
much forgot /everything/.
For the record, I'm already proficient with C, C++, and other languages
and operating systems, including Posix. ARM and RISC OS are new to me.
I guess I'm going to need some hand holding with day to day operations,
and read the user's guide, and that's ok. I'll try to keep user
questions to c.s.a.misc though.
What do people /need/ for RISC OS? Where would my programmming efforts
be mostly helpful? I know what /I/ want to do, which may be completely irrelevant to everyone else; so I make no promises on working on any-
thing in particular.
What are people willing to /pay/ for? If I can get my employer on board
and sell some software, then we'd be discussing a lot less time to
delivery than if I only work in my free time.
Thanks,
In message <NJQlH.155821$2N6.108013@fx04.am4>
Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> wrote:
Dear c.s.a.p,
First question [and it maybe obsolete by the time you read this] isHope you received it, if not check it is not mistaken for spam by your internet provider, I already had the problem
about the DDE. I just sent a payment to ROOL (?) but did not get
an immediate download link. Is this normal? I believe I bought the
.zip download /only/ but I have no records of what exactly was bought
[yet.]
Am I supposed to get a download link in email?
What is a good way to get started with programming for RISC OS? I used
to have an emulator with RISC OS about a decade or more ago, and back
then I played a bit with GCC, but never got really far, and I've pretty
much forgot /everything/.
For the record, I'm already proficient with C, C++, and other languages
and operating systems, including Posix. ARM and RISC OS are new to me.
I guess I'm going to need some hand holding with day to day operations,
and read the user's guide, and that's ok. I'll try to keep user
questions to c.s.a.misc though.
What do people /need/ for RISC OS? Where would my programmming efforts
be mostly helpful? I know what /I/ want to do, which may be completely irrelevant to everyone else; so I make no promises on working on any-
thing in particular.
What are people willing to /pay/ for? If I can get my employer on board
and sell some software, then we'd be discussing a lot less time to
delivery than if I only work in my free time.
In article <YaUlH.134492$2R2.17501@fx32.am4>,
Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> wrote:
Am I supposed to get a download link in email?
Yes, you get a link by email. However, everything is done 'manually', including giving you a DEV number, and also hardcoding your ID into
the compiler binary, so it can take a couple of days to receive the
link.
Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> wrote:
What is a good way to get started with programming for RISC OS? I used
to have an emulator with RISC OS about a decade or more ago, and back
then I played a bit with GCC, but never got really far, and I've pretty
much forgot /everything/.
For the record, I'm already proficient with C, C++, and other languages
and operating systems, including Posix. ARM and RISC OS are new to me.
Where does your interest and skill set lie?
There's various points in the stack you might start:
Desktop apps: C, C++, BASIC are popular. Other languages like Python and Lua are
a bit more niche (and more likely support is a bit more patchy)
(User-facing) Modules: filesystems, system services, drivers. That's mostly C (or
assembly, for the masochists).
Operating system: modifying deeper level stuff, porting to new hardware: C
or assembly.
The DDE is needed for actual OS development, but its C++ is ancient and the tools can be a bit quirky (there's a Make but it's not GNU Make, for example). GCC has good C++, shared library and cross-build support but
isn't supported for building the OS.
I guess I'm going to need some hand holding with day to day operations,
and read the user's guide, and that's ok. I'll try to keep user
questions to c.s.a.misc though.
If you don't get answers here, the ROOL forum is also worth posting to.
(many only read one but not the other)
What do people /need/ for RISC OS? Where would my programmming efforts
be mostly helpful? I know what /I/ want to do, which may be completely
irrelevant to everyone else; so I make no promises on working on any-
thing in particular.
https://www.riscosopen.org/bounty/
https://www.riscosopen.org/forum/forums/2
There is typically a skills disconnect between people who can, say, debug
the USB stack, and developers who work on application code in BASIC. This
is why many bounties are slow to be taken up.
What are people willing to /pay/ for? If I can get my employer on board
and sell some software, then we'd be discussing a lot less time to
delivery than if I only work in my free time.
The usual problem is the market size. People sometimes wave cash around ('I'll pay £50 for X') but if only three of them want it, it's not cost effective. I'm not sure any RISC OS project is cost effective in terms of commercial rates.
If any of the bounties work for you, that could be a place to start.
You could also ask if there are starter projects you could try.
(many open source projects have them, but ROOL hasn't traditionally)
If you have time you could commit, it could be worth talking to someone like R-Comp to see what they see as pressing needs. They probably have more contact with real customers than most.
All over the place. I have a history of contributing to a wide variety
of projects, both as part of my work, and in my free time with open
source projects. My project history includes device driver code, though
what I can show would be software only projects [on my blog] for OS/2
and Illumos [formerly OpenSolaris]; database code, server plugins for Postgres, SQL clients, and such things; some graphical and desktop applications; and a whole bunch of other stuff.
That would make me a Jack of all trades, so to speak.
There's various points in the stack you might start:
Desktop apps: C, C++, BASIC are popular. Other languages like Python and Lua are
a bit more niche (and more likely support is a bit more patchy)
A desktop app is something I might do as practice.
I think the bounties and wish lists are something I'll look at more when
I've gotten some RISC OS experience.
You could also ask if there are starter projects you could try.
(many open source projects have them, but ROOL hasn't traditionally)
What do you mean with a starter project? I'm not familiar with the
term.
What is a good way to get started with programming for RISC OS? I used
to have an emulator with RISC OS about a decade or more ago, and back
then I played a bit with GCC, but never got really far, and I've pretty
much forgot /everything/.
For the record, I'm already proficient with C, C++, and other languages
and operating systems, including Posix. ARM and RISC OS are new to me.
What do people /need/ for RISC OS? Where would my programmming efforts
be mostly helpful? I know what /I/ want to do, which may be completely irrelevant to everyone else; so I make no promises on working on any-
thing in particular.
What are people willing to /pay/ for? If I can get my employer on board
and sell some software, then we'd be discussing a lot less time to
delivery than if I only work in my free time.
What is a good way to get started with programming for RISC OS? I used
to have an emulator with RISC OS about a decade or more ago, and back
then I played a bit with GCC, but never got really far, and I've pretty
much forgot /everything/.
OTHER NOTES
We suggest you use the official RISC OS build environment rather than
tools such as !Make (which is still included as a legacy option).
https://www.riscosopen.org/wiki/documentation/pages/Technical+notes
This link is now empty, with a notice that it's been merged into two different categories. I don't know what you're trying to say here.
When I originally emailed ROOL to subscribe to my yearly updates, I got an error message, as that email address seems to be non- functioning. I
don't know if this is automated now, or if it's just because the updated
came so shorly aftewards that they decided to email me with it anyway.
What is the proper way to contact ROOL about this?
Side question: should I keep my developer ID secret?
A question I had in the bounced email, was
OTHER NOTES
We suggest you use the official RISC OS build environment rather than
tools such as !Make (which is still included as a legacy option).
https://www.riscosopen.org/wiki/documentation/pages/Technical+notes
This link is now empty, with a notice that it's been merged into two different categories. I don't know what you're trying to say here.
so there seems to be a discrepancy between the email advice and the wiki.
I'll repeat that I don't know what ROOL is trying to tell me.
On 18 Jan, you wrote:
When I originally emailed ROOL to subscribe to my yearly updates, I got an >> error message, as that email address seems to be non- functioning. I
don't know if this is automated now, or if it's just because the updated
came so shorly aftewards that they decided to email me with it anyway.
What is the proper way to contact ROOL about this?
There's a contact email given in the documentation, I think. That said, ROOL are a "spare-time" operation, so often asking in the ROOL forums is the quickest way to get an answer.
https://www.riscosopen.org/forum
I'll repeat that I don't know what ROOL is trying to tell me.
In the quote above? Simply what they say: don't use the Make application, which is a legacy thing; use Amu, which is more like what Make is on other systems.
Also, use the project templates and Shared Makefiles (which are powered by Amu) for new projects when possible, as they're far easier to maintain. In and amongst the other stuff, there's some info on Shared Makefiles here:
http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/risc-os/wimp-prog/a-better-way-to-compile
Just to add there's a new thread on this on the ROOL forum - it's good at going into the pros and cons of various approaches: https://www.riscosopen.org/forum/forums/11/topics/15803
RISC OS is very much NOT posix, so prepare to learn whole new ways of
doing things!
If there is a /what's different/ guide out there, I have not come
across it. Maybe I'll try to write one, or maybe not. It shouldn't
be hard to write, but needs to focus less on the GUI which is easy
enough once you know there's a menu button, and more on what characters
are valid in file systems, what the separator is, what the character
for /previous directory/ is, what *commands are; and so forth -- in my opinon.
The GUI was the selling point for RISC OS, which wasn't really targetted
at command-line programmers - most users today probably don't have the faintest idea what the character for 'go up a directory' is, and few of
them type in anything other than a leafname, since all files are
normally saved by drag and drop from a 'savebox' and the destination directory is selected visually.
Knowledge on that level ceased to be important to the general user once
the days of the BBC Micro were over. (I think the RISC OS 2/3 User
Guides may contain more useful stuff about 'star commands' and system variables than the later ones, which is why I hung onto mine.)
would stop after each screen full of output, so you could read it, and
you then pressed shift to show the next page. This is similar to the
Unix more or less programs, but with one crucial difference - there is
no indication on screen that you need to press anything to continue.
On Wednesday, 20 January 2021 at 15:35:28 UTC, druck wrote:
would stop after each screen full of output, so you could read it, and
you then pressed shift to show the next page. This is similar to the
Unix more or less programs, but with one crucial difference - there is
no indication on screen that you need to press anything to continue.
Doesn't the Shift Lock light come on.... oh! ;)
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