• Disadvantages of an AS/400

    From Zenovalle@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 3 09:07:38 2018
    Il 02/07/2018 22:23, Obelix ha scritto:
    Il 02/07/2018 12:02, CENTRINO ha scritto:
    When the technician tells the businessman, that its business does not
    run because of the lack of support from IBM, he starts to think in
    Windows and Linux as alternatives.

    Which, of course, does not to need to be updated to last version, eh?
    And where every updates roll away easy, really??

    We're talking about *two diff* Win & Linux, otherwise you've much more problem updating Win and Linux than updating as400.





    Just to add up to what Obelix said:

    https://www-01.ibm.com/software/support/lifecycleapp/PLCDetail.wss?q45=W197446Z22325E43

    V 7.1 started in 2010, the support ended this year, so 8 years in total.

    The LTS versions of Ubuntu server are supported for 5 years max, so it
    means you have to upgrade every 5 years if you don't want to run your
    business in an unsecure unsupported environment, so... what we are
    talking about?

    PS: Windows support is 5 years too (in the version LTSB), 10 with the
    extended support (extended = only security updates, you have to pay
    otherwise)

    --
    http://blog.zenovalle.it/

    But we are hackers and hackers have black terminals with green font
    colors. (John Nunemaker)

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  • From Dr.UgoGagliardelli@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 3 10:47:16 2018
    Il 03.07.2018 09.07, Zenovalle ha scritto:
    Il 02/07/2018 22:23, Obelix ha scritto:
    Il 02/07/2018 12:02, CENTRINO ha scritto:
    When the technician tells the businessman, that its business does not
    run because of the lack of support from IBM, he starts to think in
    Windows and Linux as alternatives.

    Which, of course, does not to need to be updated to last version, eh?
    And where every updates roll away easy, really??

    We're talking about *two diff* Win & Linux, otherwise you've much more
    problem updating Win and Linux than updating as400.





    Just to add up to what Obelix said:

    https://www-01.ibm.com/software/support/lifecycleapp/PLCDetail.wss?q45=W197446Z22325E43

    V 7.1 started in 2010, the support ended this year, so 8 years in total.

    The LTS versions of Ubuntu server are supported for 5 years max, so it
    means you have to upgrade every 5 years if you don't want to run your business in an unsecure unsupported environment, so... what we are
    talking about?

    PS: Windows support is 5 years too (in the version LTSB), 10 with the extended support (extended = only security updates, you have to pay otherwise)

    Extended support is available for V7.1 too. Obviously not for free.

    Further more Linux and Microsoft support is not free at all, even in the
    first 5 years, only updates from the web are free, but you have to apply
    by your own and there's no cumulative patches, that on system i you can
    apply without fear of conflicts concurencies and prerequisites.

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  • From Obelix@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 3 14:02:59 2018
    Il 03/07/2018 13:31, CENTRINO ha scritto:

    It  is true, But ... if you are paying software maintenance, hardware maintenance, and a plus ... extended support it is too much in
    comparison with the Linux fees. The businessman, do not see technical goodies, but costs, short terms costs and thus, is more prone to changes.
    If you pay Sfw maint then you have no need to stay behind in SysRel:
    update of the OS is included.

    But, again, tell me something that you can do 7.3 and not at 6.1. that
    is useful ???

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  • From CENTRINO@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 3 12:31:53 2018
    El 03/07/2018 a las 9:47, Dr.UgoGagliardelli escribió:
    Il 03.07.2018 09.07, Zenovalle ha scritto:
    Il 02/07/2018 22:23, Obelix ha scritto:
    Il 02/07/2018 12:02, CENTRINO ha scritto:
    When the technician tells the businessman, that its business does not
    run because of the lack of support from IBM, he starts to think in
    Windows and Linux as alternatives.

    Which, of course, does not to need to be updated to last version, eh?
    And where every updates roll away easy, really??

    We're talking about *two diff* Win & Linux, otherwise you've much more
    problem updating Win and Linux than updating as400.





    Just to add up to what Obelix said:

    https://www-01.ibm.com/software/support/lifecycleapp/PLCDetail.wss?q45=W197446Z22325E43


    V 7.1 started in 2010, the support ended this year, so 8 years in total.

    The LTS versions of Ubuntu server are supported for 5 years max, so it
    means you have to upgrade every 5 years if you don't want to run your
    business in an unsecure unsupported environment, so... what we are
    talking about?

    PS: Windows support is 5 years too (in the version LTSB), 10 with the
    extended support (extended = only security updates, you have to pay
    otherwise)

    Extended support is available for V7.1 too. Obviously not for free.

    Further more Linux and Microsoft support is not free at all, even in the first 5 years, only updates from the web are free, but you have to apply
    by your own and there's no cumulative patches, that on system i you can
    apply without fear of conflicts concurencies and prerequisites.

    It is true, But ... if you are paying software maintenance, hardware maintenance, and a plus ... extended support it is too much in
    comparison with the Linux fees. The businessman, do not see technical
    goodies, but costs, short terms costs and thus, is more prone to changes.

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  • From Robert Comer@21:1/5 to Obelix on Tue Jul 3 10:04:08 2018
    If you pay Sfw maint then you have no need to stay behind in SysRel:
    update of the OS is included.

    You can only upgrade if your hardware allows it, and it takes $'s to update hardware. Our current hardware wont upgrade past 7.1...


    On Tue, 3 Jul 2018 14:02:59 +0200, Obelix <obelix.it@gmail.com> wrote:

    Il 03/07/2018 13:31, CENTRINO ha scritto:

    It  is true, But ... if you are paying software maintenance, hardware
    maintenance, and a plus ... extended support it is too much in
    comparison with the Linux fees. The businessman, do not see technical
    goodies, but costs, short terms costs and thus, is more prone to changes. >If you pay Sfw maint then you have no need to stay behind in SysRel:
    update of the OS is included.

    But, again, tell me something that you can do 7.3 and not at 6.1. that
    is useful ???




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  • From CENTRINO@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 4 13:01:55 2018
    El 03/07/2018 a las 15:04, Robert Comer escribió:
    If you pay Sfw maint then you have no need to stay behind in SysRel:
    update of the OS is included.

    You can only upgrade if your hardware allows it, and it takes $'s to update hardware. Our current hardware wont upgrade past 7.1...


    On Tue, 3 Jul 2018 14:02:59 +0200, Obelix <obelix.it@gmail.com> wrote:

    Il 03/07/2018 13:31, CENTRINO ha scritto:

    It  is true, But ... if you are paying software maintenance, hardware
    maintenance, and a plus ... extended support it is too much in
    comparison with the Linux fees. The businessman, do not see technical
    goodies, but costs, short terms costs and thus, is more prone to changes. >> If you pay Sfw maint then you have no need to stay behind in SysRel:
    update of the OS is included.

    But, again, tell me something that you can do 7.3 and not at 6.1. that
    is useful ???




    http://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/ShowDoc.wss?docURL=/common/ssi/rep_ca/2/872/ENUSAP16-0132/index.html&lang=en&request_locale=en

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  • From Robert Comer@21:1/5 to CENTRINO on Fri Jul 6 10:55:50 2018
    Saying what's new about 7r3 doesn't really help with budget matters when we aren't actively developing big projects -- it's just a plain old business.
    :)

    We probably will be getting new hardware, but that really doesn't make me
    feel good about IBM, our old machine is doing the job just fine...

    Remember when you calculating upgrade costs and compare them to Windows machines, the i hardware costs a lot more so shouldn't be retired nearly as fast.


    On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 13:01:55 +0100, CENTRINO <none@nonelandia.com> wrote:

    El 03/07/2018 a las 15:04, Robert Comer escribió:
    If you pay Sfw maint then you have no need to stay behind in SysRel:
    update of the OS is included.

    You can only upgrade if your hardware allows it, and it takes $'s to update >> hardware. Our current hardware wont upgrade past 7.1...


    On Tue, 3 Jul 2018 14:02:59 +0200, Obelix <obelix.it@gmail.com> wrote:

    Il 03/07/2018 13:31, CENTRINO ha scritto:

    It  is true, But ... if you are paying software maintenance, hardware
    maintenance, and a plus ... extended support it is too much in
    comparison with the Linux fees. The businessman, do not see technical
    goodies, but costs, short terms costs and thus, is more prone to changes. >>> If you pay Sfw maint then you have no need to stay behind in SysRel:
    update of the OS is included.

    But, again, tell me something that you can do 7.3 and not at 6.1. that
    is useful ???




    http://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/ShowDoc.wss?docURL=/common/ssi/rep_ca/2/872/ENUSAP16-0132/index.html&lang=en&request_locale=en

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  • From CENTRINO@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 9 11:01:29 2018
    El 06/07/2018 a las 15:55, Robert Comer escribió:
    Saying what's new about 7r3 doesn't really help with budget matters when we aren't actively developing big projects -- it's just a plain old business.
    :)

    We probably will be getting new hardware, but that really doesn't make me feel good about IBM, our old machine is doing the job just fine...

    Remember when you calculating upgrade costs and compare them to Windows machines, the i hardware costs a lot more so shouldn't be retired nearly as fast.


    On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 13:01:55 +0100, CENTRINO <none@nonelandia.com> wrote:

    El 03/07/2018 a las 15:04, Robert Comer escribió:
    If you pay Sfw maint then you have no need to stay behind in SysRel:
    update of the OS is included.

    You can only upgrade if your hardware allows it, and it takes $'s to update >>> hardware. Our current hardware wont upgrade past 7.1...


    On Tue, 3 Jul 2018 14:02:59 +0200, Obelix <obelix.it@gmail.com> wrote:

    Il 03/07/2018 13:31, CENTRINO ha scritto:

    It  is true, But ... if you are paying software maintenance, hardware >>>>> maintenance, and a plus ... extended support it is too much in
    comparison with the Linux fees. The businessman, do not see technical >>>>> goodies, but costs, short terms costs and thus, is more prone to changes. >>>> If you pay Sfw maint then you have no need to stay behind in SysRel:
    update of the OS is included.

    But, again, tell me something that you can do 7.3 and not at 6.1. that >>>> is useful ???




    http://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/ShowDoc.wss?docURL=/common/ssi/rep_ca/2/872/ENUSAP16-0132/index.html&lang=en&request_locale=en

    I have been working with AS/400 since 1988, yes a B10 machine that my
    company as IBM Agent got. Before that, I worked with S/34, S/36 and
    S/38. So, I know very very well what an IBM I system can deliver in
    terms of confidence and durability. I do still remember when IBM was out
    of standards selling Token Ring instead of Ethernet or machines with SNA
    and no native TCP/IP.

    Now, I give a lot of importance to "what's new", because I have to
    recognize the effort of IBM in terms of openness. Now, if you want to
    still be working only in RPG and green screen, you'll find very little improvements, but still there are quite a few.

    I think, that IBM should have write a microcode for Intel processors in
    order to make it more popular and sell it as a DB2 database server box.
    Now it languishes ...

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  • From Robert Comer@21:1/5 to CENTRINO on Mon Jul 9 14:23:07 2018
    I have been working with AS/400 since 1988, yes a B10 machine that my
    company as IBM Agent got. Before that, I worked with S/34, S/36 and
    S/38. So, I know very very well what an IBM I system can deliver in
    terms of confidence and durability.

    My experience is pretty similar, though instead of a Sys/34, I worked with
    a Sys/3 15B, and I went straight from a S/36 to an AS/400. (also was a
    B10!)

    Now, I give a lot of importance to "what's new", because I have to
    recognize the effort of IBM in terms of openness. Now, if you want to
    still be working only in RPG and green screen, you'll find very little >improvements, but still there are quite a few.

    I don't only do green screen, though it is the majority -- it's a
    manufacturing plant with a low transaction count per day. We really don't
    need new capability, we just need extreme uptime. We're not even pushing
    what we have so there's no ROI on getting something faster.

    I think, that IBM should have write a microcode for Intel processors in
    order to make it more popular and sell it as a DB2 database server box.

    There's really no reason they couldn't from what I know about the base architecture, though PC's don't all have IOP's running the hardware like
    the AS/400 does. Still, it'd be a good idea, even if it had to be in a VM. (yes, little/big endian would make MI hard to rewrite, but still...)


    On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 11:01:29 +0100, CENTRINO <none@nonelandia.com> wrote:

    El 06/07/2018 a las 15:55, Robert Comer escribió:
    Saying what's new about 7r3 doesn't really help with budget matters when we >> aren't actively developing big projects -- it's just a plain old business. >> :)

    We probably will be getting new hardware, but that really doesn't make me
    feel good about IBM, our old machine is doing the job just fine...

    Remember when you calculating upgrade costs and compare them to Windows
    machines, the i hardware costs a lot more so shouldn't be retired nearly as >> fast.


    On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 13:01:55 +0100, CENTRINO <none@nonelandia.com> wrote:

    El 03/07/2018 a las 15:04, Robert Comer escribió:
    If you pay Sfw maint then you have no need to stay behind in SysRel: >>>>> update of the OS is included.

    You can only upgrade if your hardware allows it, and it takes $'s to update
    hardware. Our current hardware wont upgrade past 7.1...


    On Tue, 3 Jul 2018 14:02:59 +0200, Obelix <obelix.it@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>
    Il 03/07/2018 13:31, CENTRINO ha scritto:

    It  is true, But ... if you are paying software maintenance, hardware >>>>>> maintenance, and a plus ... extended support it is too much in
    comparison with the Linux fees. The businessman, do not see technical >>>>>> goodies, but costs, short terms costs and thus, is more prone to changes.
    If you pay Sfw maint then you have no need to stay behind in SysRel: >>>>> update of the OS is included.

    But, again, tell me something that you can do 7.3 and not at 6.1. that >>>>> is useful ???




    http://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/ShowDoc.wss?docURL=/common/ssi/rep_ca/2/872/ENUSAP16-0132/index.html&lang=en&request_locale=en

    I have been working with AS/400 since 1988, yes a B10 machine that my
    company as IBM Agent got. Before that, I worked with S/34, S/36 and
    S/38. So, I know very very well what an IBM I system can deliver in
    terms of confidence and durability. I do still remember when IBM was out
    of standards selling Token Ring instead of Ethernet or machines with SNA
    and no native TCP/IP.

    Now, I give a lot of importance to "what's new", because I have to
    recognize the effort of IBM in terms of openness. Now, if you want to
    still be working only in RPG and green screen, you'll find very little >improvements, but still there are quite a few.

    I think, that IBM should have write a microcode for Intel processors in
    order to make it more popular and sell it as a DB2 database server box.
    Now it languishes ...


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  • From Raz Sal@21:1/5 to Thomas Raddatz on Thu Jul 8 08:41:41 2021
    On Saturday, March 7, 1998 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-5, Thomas Raddatz wrote:
    On my opinion there are no great disadvantages with an AS/400. Some
    people mention the price but they should remember the reliability of the AS/400, too.
    The only disadvantage known by me is that you can not run an AS/400 24
    hours over 7 days a week. From time to time you have to do an IPL to
    allow the AS/400 to reorganize temporaly used adresses. If you forget to
    do an IPL you will run out of free adresses and the system will stop. At
    this point you MUST do an IPL!
    A customer of our company owns a Model 320 and he has to do one IPL per
    week. But I think that this is independant of the model. Other people
    may correct this.
    Kind regards
    Thomas Raddatz, Germany
    tsn...@pssd.com schrieb:

    Hello everyone. I am doing some research on the AS/400. What I am looking for is any information about the disadvantages of an AS/400. Any information
    would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

    Todd Snyder
    tsn...@pssd.com

    -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
    that was 1998
    2021, many disadvantages. slow, unpredictable, laggy, just a joke

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  • From Raz Sal@21:1/5 to Larry Shove on Thu Jul 8 08:40:45 2021
    On Saturday, March 7, 1998 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-5, Larry Shove wrote:
    One of the main disadvantages of the AS400 is that it has no native
    graphics
    or sound support.
    This may change in the future. The Java porting to AS400 does not include
    the AWT Package so you can have 100% Java clients, but the server can not
    run alot of Java applications - via OS/400.
    If IBM gave OS/400 a GUI instead of spending millions on OS/2, it could of killed NT4 before it was born!
    Cheers
    Larry
    tsn...@pssd.com wrote in article <6dplag$dka$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
    Hello everyone. I am doing some research on the AS/400. What I am
    looking
    for is any information about the disadvantages of an AS/400. Any
    information
    would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

    Todd Snyder
    tsn...@pssd.com

    -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading

    sorry hasnt changed for the past 23 years. still slow ugly and junk. cheap corporate ware

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