BTW I'll mention a couple useful utilities for streaming games from your PC (requires Nvidia GPU) to the steamdeck or other tv/mobile device (maybe android-only, not sure about that):
https://github.com/LizardByte/Sunshine
This is the server app for the pc, basically replacing Geforce Experience, which is EOL
https://moonlight-stream.org/
The client to run on many different mobile platforms

And don't forget the XReal glasses to make steamdeck more comfortable. Yeah this is a cool $1k for the whole setup, but a neat option for wealthy
gamers!

OLED, Wifi6E, not actually more powerful though: >https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamdeck_2023

rms

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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OLED, Wifi6E, not actually more powerful though: https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamdeck_2023

rms

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 11/9/23 14:16, Zaghadka wrote:

On Thu, 9 Nov 2023 10:57:36 -0700, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, rms wrote:

OLED, Wifi6E, not actually more powerful though:
https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamdeck_2023

Steamdeck makes it clear that there is an off-ramp from Windows should we need it.

I'll probably be running Steam-OS Linux with a Wine-based compatibility
layer at some point in the next 20 years, if I live that long.

Wdym?

Valve is Microsoft's reality check for the time being.

Yeah, it's finally a way to brag about Linux.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Thu, 9 Nov 2023 10:57:36 -0700, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, rms
wrote:

OLED, Wifi6E, not actually more powerful though: >https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamdeck_2023

Steamdeck makes it clear that there is an off-ramp from Windows should we
need it.

I'll probably be running Steam-OS Linux with a Wine-based compatibility
layer at some point in the next 20 years, if I live that long.

Valve is Microsoft's reality check for the time being.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Am 09.11.23 um 18:57 schrieb rms:

OLED, Wifi6E, not actually more powerful though: https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamdeck_2023

rms

Yes I did not have this on my radar...
No one literally had, Valve did an Apple on this one despite
having non marketing people openly talking about the Deck!

Great update fixed almost everything which was criticized about the
original, the only thing missing for me atm is VRR and a second usb-c port!

Guess they need room for improvements for the real deck2, but impressive
mid gen update!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Am 09.11.23 um 21:16 schrieb Zaghadka:

Steamdeck makes it clear that there is an off-ramp fr

om Windows should we

need it.

The off ramp is pretty good now, literally 90-95% of my 1000+ games
library is running now, 30% are certified to be running.
Ok I have to revert to ProtonGE for some, but thats literally just one
install and a switch of a button!

The biggest blockers are anti cheat systems which I am barely affected
given I do not play multiplayer games, but there is little that Valve
can do in this area (except for providing api hooks which they did)

Maybe we will see another steam console one day, SteamOS definitely is
good enough by now to pull this off.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Am 09.11.23 um 19:09 schrieb rms:

BTW I'll mention a couple useful utilities for streaming games from your
PC (requires Nvidia GPU) to the steamdeck or other tv/mobile device
(maybe android-only, not sure about that): https://github.com/LizardByte/Sunshine
This is the server app for the pc, basically replacing Geforce
Experience, which is EOL
https://moonlight-stream.org/
The client to run on many different mobile platforms

And don't forget the XReal glasses to make steamdeck more comfortable.
Yeah this is a cool $1k for the whole setup, but a neat option for
wealthy gamers!

With Sunshine no NVidia gpu is required anymore, Nvidia is giving up its
local streaming soon so the moonlight people have been taking over the
server side as well. Which is a good thing, because it was never really
known whether NVidia was going to change the protocol to stomp out the opensource competition, guess they just are dropping it entirely because
there are now opensource alternatives sitting on top of their protocol!

If you want to have plug and pray you also can use Steam inhome
streaming, works well for me, but others have problems with it!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Thu, 9 Nov 2023 14:47:56 -0600, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, candycanearter07 wrote:

On 11/9/23 14:16, Zaghadka wrote:

On Thu, 9 Nov 2023 10:57:36 -0700, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, rms
wrote:

OLED, Wifi6E, not actually more powerful though:
https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamdeck_2023

Steamdeck makes it clear that there is an off-ramp from Windows should we
need it.

I'll probably be running Steam-OS Linux with a Wine-based compatibility
layer at some point in the next 20 years, if I live that long.

Wdym?

I mean I'll be running Arch (with some variant of Proton or even SteamOS itself) and running Office, Adobe, etc. (must haves for work) through Codeweavers or Wine or something.

Most of the reason I'm on Windows is work apps and games. Otherwise, it's
"Get me the hell off this crazy bus."

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Thu, 09 Nov 2023 14:16:20 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Steamdeck makes it clear that there is an off-ramp from Windows should we >need it.

I'll probably be running Steam-OS Linux with a Wine-based compatibility
layer at some point in the next 20 years, if I live that long.

Valve is Microsoft's reality check for the time being.

And it's on purpose.

Valve has long been worried about Microsoft's dominance in the PC
market, and how it might abuse that control. Admittedly, Valve largely
cares about this issue because it threatens VALVE'S control over PC
gaming (and not how it affects us mere consumers), but their
opposition is beneficial to we peons.

In fact, many of Valve's hardware-related activities have been a
reaction to Microsoft. The (now forgotten) "Steam Machines" were a
shot across Microsoft's bow following the creation of the Windows App
store; there was a real worry that developers might leave Steam and
only release games as UWP applications. The Steam Machine was a small
form factor PC (built by a variety of licensees) that used an early
version of SteamOS, and its legacy can be traced directly to the
current SteamDeck devices. There was a real belief that - had
Microsoft become more aggressive with pushing UWP/WindowsApps, Valve
was going to move far more aggressively towards Linux... and drag a
lot of Windows users along with them.

SteamLink, SteamVR and SteamDeck were continued salvos by Valve
assuring Microsoft that it will not give up its monopoly on PC
software sales easily. They continue to fund initiatives that can
become alternatives to PC gaming if Microsoft's demands become too
onerous. And, fortunately for Valve, most gamers see them as being
more trustworthy custodians of PC gaming than Microsoft so their
threat actually carries some weight.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 09:28:40 +0100, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:

Am 09.11.23 um 18:57 schrieb rms:

OLED, Wifi6E, not actually more powerful though:
https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamdeck_2023

rms

Yes I did not have this on my radar...
No one literally had, Valve did an Apple on this one despite
having non marketing people openly talking about the Deck!

It's actually a good strategy. Had Valve hyped it up, the actual
release would have been fairly disappointing. Yes, an OLED screen and
better battery-life are cool, but it's not really a gamebreaker (and
the lack of performance improvements are disappointing). Had people
known this was coming, the lack of significant upgrades would have
soured a lot of people on the platform. "We waited two years and THIS
is all we got?"

But by dropping it unannounced, there is to hype to live up to; people
will judge the machine on its own merits. It's SteamDeck, but slightly
better.

There's also a psychological bonus, in that the lack of pre-sales hype
makes it feel as if Valve is doing this just because they care about
the device (and people's gaming experience), and not to maximize the
amount of money they can siphon out of our wallets. A lot of Valve's
success has been dependent on their remaining in the good graces of
their customers, and this only reinforces that idea.

TL;DR: Valve has a very clever marketing team that understands its
customers

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 11/10/23 14:45, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 09:28:40 +0100, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:

Am 09.11.23 um 18:57 schrieb rms:

OLED, Wifi6E, not actually more powerful though:
https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamdeck_2023

rms

Yes I did not have this on my radar...
No one literally had, Valve did an Apple on this one despite
having non marketing people openly talking about the Deck!

It's actually a good strategy. Had Valve hyped it up, the actual
release would have been fairly disappointing. Yes, an OLED screen and
better battery-life are cool, but it's not really a gamebreaker (and
the lack of performance improvements are disappointing). Had people
known this was coming, the lack of significant upgrades would have
soured a lot of people on the platform. "We waited two years and THIS
is all we got?"

But by dropping it unannounced, there is to hype to live up to; people
will judge the machine on its own merits. It's SteamDeck, but slightly better.

There's also a psychological bonus, in that the lack of pre-sales hype
makes it feel as if Valve is doing this just because they care about
the device (and people's gaming experience), and not to maximize the
amount of money they can siphon out of our wallets. A lot of Valve's
success has been dependent on their remaining in the good graces of
their customers, and this only reinforces that idea.

TL;DR: Valve has a very clever marketing team that understands its
customers

Interesting, I never considered that.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Am 10.11.23 um 21:45 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:

It's actually a good strategy. Had Valve hyped it up, the actual
release would have been fairly disappointing. Yes, an OLED screen and
better battery-life are cool, but it's not really a gamebreaker (and
the lack of performance improvements are disappointing). Had people
known this was coming, the lack of significant upgrades would have
soured a lot of people on the platform. "We waited two years and THIS
is all we got?"

Well, Valve said themselves they are going to do a real revision 2
whenever there is a huge jump in perfomance, so far it is not, just look
at the other consoles in this area, roughly 30% more performance on
paper which they blow away with higher resolution and in the end the
final performance is lower than the deck.

My personal guess is that we are at least another 2 years away from a
real successor, which is fine, they adressed almost every other
complaint people had with the deck with this upgrade, but they always
have been honest with the performance, you can only deliver what AMD can provide at the needed wattage at this point in time, and AMD simply is
not ready for a SD 2.0 with lets say 2-3 times the performance.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Am 10.11.23 um 21:37 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:

SteamLink, SteamVR and SteamDeck were continued salvos by Valve
assuring Microsoft that it will not give up its monopoly on PC
software sales easily. They continue to fund initiatives that can
become alternatives to PC gaming if Microsoft's demands become too
onerous. And, fortunately for Valve, most gamers see them as being
more trustworthy custodians of PC gaming than Microsoft so their
threat actually carries some weight.

Gaben worked for Microsoft so yes he knows how they think, and face it
if they coult pull it off from an anti trust pov they would!
So the safety net is highly needed and so far Valve literally has
opensourced all the core parts or paid opensource developers to begin
with. It is paying off now!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Am 10.11.23 um 22:42 schrieb candycanearter07:

There's also a psychological bonus, in that the lack of pre-sales hype
makes it feel as if Valve is doing this just because they care about
the device (and people's gaming experience), and not to maximize the
amount of money they can siphon out of our wallets. A lot of Valve's
success has been dependent on their remaining in the good graces of
their customers, and this only reinforces that idea.

Well the Deck never was there to rake in tons of money directly, it
rakes in tons of money by people being more or less forced to use and
buy steam, and this works pretty well.

You can use alternative launchers, but it is a huge pain, so in the end whatever you want to buy from your gog, epic whatever collection you end
up rebuying it for a few bucks on steam to avoid the hazzle!

Not Valves fault either, by going linux they have improved their safety
net and the api is open enough that alternative launchers could hook
into, but they have not done it.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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rms wrote:

OLED, Wifi6E, not actually more powerful though: https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamdeck_2023

rms

Yep, I'm definitely cursed. 1-3 months after I buy anything:

- Get a GBA: SP immediately announced
- Get a PSP 1004: New model with better screen comes out
- Get a 3ds: 3DS XL announced


- Get a Steam Deck: Actually surprised they have released an OLED model.
I remember Valve mentioning that the reason for a normal screen was how
hard it was to find an OLED one that could do that sweet spot of 40hz.

The 512gb model on sale now is not a bad deal. For somebody who plays
mostly indie games, the improved thermals and battery are not that
necessary.

As for me, I'm happy with my standard 256gb model. I'm not completely
sold on OLED screens since they tend to last less than LCD screens and
there's a risk of getting them with a yellow tint.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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With Sunshine no NVidia gpu is required anymore, Nvidia is giving up its >local streaming soon so the moonlight people have been taking over the
server side as well.

I'm hearing of people just using Moonlight on a newer iPhone or iPad,
with an XBox controller and the XReal glasses, and getting a decent
experience with streaming and sideloaded emulators or app store games. The point where what a device like this promises https://www.visor.com/ may be approaching reality

rms

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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H1MEM <wipnoah@gmail.com> wrote:

- Get a Steam Deck: Actually surprised they have released an OLED model.
I remember Valve mentioning that the reason for a normal screen was how
hard it was to find an OLED one that could do that sweet spot of 40hz.

Turns out it's much easier to get a custom OLED screen made for your groundbreaking new hardware device once you've sold a few million of them.

--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca:11068/
db //

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Werner P. <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:

Yes I did not have this on my radar...
No one literally had, Valve did an Apple on this one despite
having non marketing people openly talking about the Deck!

There had actually been quite a bit speculation about new a Steam
Deck comming, mostly predicting what was announced and its time frame.
It was already known that new Steam Deck with upgraded WiFi hardware
was coming soon because of an FCC filling. On the other hand Valve had
also made it clear that a faster Deck was still a couple of years away,
so we also knew weren't going to see a significant processor upgrade.
It seemed unlikely that just the WiFI module was being upgraded, so it
left people speculating that obvious upgrades like an OLED screen and
more storage would also be included.

I don't think anyone guessed it would include a longer charging cable
though.
--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca:11068/
db //

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 11/11/2023 11:35 AM, Ross Ridge wrote:

H1MEM <wipnoah@gmail.com> wrote:

- Get a Steam Deck: Actually surprised they have released an OLED model.
I remember Valve mentioning that the reason for a normal screen was how
hard it was to find an OLED one that could do that sweet spot of 40hz.

Turns out it's much easier to get a custom OLED screen made for your groundbreaking new hardware device once you've sold a few million of them.

"Discounts for volume sales." - Used Car Salesmen in late night commercials.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Am 11.11.23 um 20:02 schrieb H1MEM:

As for me, I'm happy with my standard 256gb model. I'm not completely
sold on OLED screens since they tend to last less than LCD screens and there's a risk of getting them with a yellow tint.

Well for gamning usage I guess oled has no real risk of burning in, the
problem is more if you use the display as computer monitor, then you
have to take precautions, it comes down to the same usage scenarios just
as plasma displays in the past.

Btw. congrats on your purchase, how do you like yours, I love mine!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Am 11.11.23 um 19:40 schrieb rms:

  I'm hearing of people just using Moonlight on a newer iPhone or iPad, with an XBox controller and the XReal glasses, and getting a decent experience with streaming and sideloaded emulators or app store games.
The point where what a device like this promises https://www.visor.com/
may be approaching reality

Well, AR glasses have their limits, but they are really nice, I have one
myself (XReal Air), I would not want to work with it, the problems are
the same as with 3d glasses, you do not want to wear dedicated glasses
for work.
Theoretically I could do but it is still better using a conventional
monitor.

But yes theoretically the potential is there!
But the percerived resolutions still are worse atm than conventional
monitors. But having a 100 inch virtual oled monitor on the "cheap" is
nice!

The downsides are the limited FOV although 100 degrees is an
improvement, but that has been plaguing VR glasses as well for quite
some time and the resolution, the panels are close to the eye so you are
way more sensitive to that even on paper it has good resolutions you see
often screen door effects etc.. because of the real distance instead of
the virtual ones.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Am 12.11.23 um 00:50 schrieb Dimensional Traveler:

On 11/11/2023 11:35 AM, Ross Ridge wrote:

H1MEM  <wipnoah@gmail.com> wrote:

- Get a Steam Deck: Actually surprised they have released an OLED model. >>> I remember Valve mentioning that the reason for a normal screen was how
hard it was to find an OLED one that could do that sweet spot of 40hz.

Turns out it's much easier to get a custom OLED screen made for your
groundbreaking new hardware device once you've sold a few million of
them.

"Discounts for volume sales." - Used Car Salesmen in late night
commercials.

My guess is this thing will sell equally well if not better.

I can see Valves site going down again next thursday like it did last
time, and people complaining afterwards that they have to wait til april
to get theirs :-D

Well the shipment this time might be faster, because there are no supply
chain issues anymore they have to deal with, but the site, every time a
big sale or something similar happens you can see the shop coming to a
crawl because they never ramp up the server capacity for this period of
time, has happened multiple times in the past!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 09/11/2023 17:57, rms wrote:

OLED, Wifi6E, not actually more powerful though: https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamdeck_2023

I have kinda been tempted to get one until my brain kicks in and I
think, in six months time which draw will it end up in!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 19:35:07 -0000 (UTC), in
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, Ross Ridge wrote:

H1MEM <wipnoah@gmail.com> wrote:

- Get a Steam Deck: Actually surprised they have released an OLED model.
I remember Valve mentioning that the reason for a normal screen was how >>hard it was to find an OLED one that could do that sweet spot of 40hz.

Turns out it's much easier to get a custom OLED screen made for your >groundbreaking new hardware device once you've sold a few million of them.

Economies of scale. It's a thing. I learned it in M.U.L.E.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Werner P. wrote:

Am 11.11.23 um 20:02 schrieb H1MEM:

As for me, I'm happy with my standard 256gb model. I'm not completely
sold on OLED screens since they tend to last less than LCD screens and
there's a risk of getting them with a yellow tint.

Well for gamning usage I guess oled has no real risk of burning in, the problem is more if you use the display as computer monitor, then you
have to take precautions, it comes down to the same usage scenarios just
as plasma displays in the past.

Btw. congrats on your purchase, how do you like yours, I love mine!

It's nice, and I already ended using it as a desktop replacement for
study reasons. Being able to install games from other stores thanks to
Lutris is basically freedom.

People are scared about the size and heavy, but it's a lot more
comfortable than Switch.

Now, let's hope they work on making the UI snappier. It's not great, and
not being able to start on the library (or even worse, in the Non Steam
page).

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 13/11/2023 13:19, H1M3M wrote:

People are scared about the size and heavy, but it's a lot more
comfortable than Switch.

It was only the first time I saw one in the wild that I realised just
how big it is!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 11/15/23 04:36, JAB wrote:

On 13/11/2023 13:19, H1M3M wrote:

People are scared about the size and heavy, but it's a lot more
comfortable than Switch.

It was only the first time I saw one in the wild that I realised just
how big it is!

I've gotten to try one and it's pretty comfortable to use.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Am 15.11.23 um 11:36 schrieb JAB:

On 13/11/2023 13:19, H1M3M wrote:

People are scared about the size and heavy, but it's a lot more
comfortable than Switch.

It was only the first time I saw one in the wild that I realised just
how big it is!

Jepp on first sight, but it could have a bigger display in my opinion,
getting old means I have now to start to wear reading glasses!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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