<rant>
I'm going to tell you a deep, dark secret. Okay, it's not very deep or
dark, and not really a secret, but you probably didn't know (and, I
admit, didn't really care to know) the following either. But here it
is, regardless:
Until a month ago, I was still using Windows 7 as my primary gaming
machine and - indeed - my daily driver for most of my work. Oh, I had
access to Windows 10 - and other operating systems - for when software
(or situation) required, but most of the time when I sat down to work
or play? Yeah, Windows 7 was what I was using.
But I knew that my reliance on that outdated, 15-year old OS was one
with an obvious (some would say long-past) end-date, and my next PC
was going to have to use something else, and when the inevitable
upgrade came around, it came with Windows 11.
And I hate it.
Well, hate is perhaps too strong a word. But there's a lot about it
that I dislike. Some of the problems I've been able to work around,
but others remain consistent thorns in my side.
There's Microsoft's insistence on tying its OS to its online services. Because I paid a premium, I could at least use the computer without registering the PC with a Microsoft account (that's not an option if
you use the Home edition), but it's still annoyingly insistent at
times. I've done my best to disable most of the more egregious demands
- no more 'hints' (aka adverts) to use MS software the lock screen,
thank you very much), but God forbid I hit Win+C; Microsoft Teams will
pop up whether I want it or not (even after I uninstalled the damn
thing, it will helpfully reinstall the program... even if I've
followed Microsoft's own instructions and disabled that 'feature' with
a registry hack). And -even after too many of those MS apps that I've uninstalled come back after Windows Update is done doing its thing.
Which leads to the major complaint I have with the OS; it's too
domineering. With Win11, even more than with Windows 10, it's not /my/ computer; it's Microsoft's. Features are added or removed at
Microsoft's whims, and decisions I've made are changed regardless of
my opinion to better fit with Microsoft's vision. Don't even get me
started on forced updates.
They've even fucked up gaming. Microsoft completely revamped how 'notifications' are handled (because that was a feature absolutely
needed on a desktop OS, right?), and Windows - and other apps - is
constantly stealing focus from the active program. Sometimes this is inconsequential; even as I was writing this sentence, the desktop
wallpaper changed in the background, and the active app flicked in and
out of focus but it didn't really interrupt my workflow except for a momentary visual aberration. But earlier today, as I was driving down
the road in Eurotruck Simulator, I was pulled out of the game for some reminder, and - unguided by human hand - my truck ended up slamming
into a tree. (I had similar happenstance in 'Cyberpunk 2077'). You can disable notifications, but it's an all-or-nothing thing. Notifications
were largely a solved problem prior to this; this reversion is
annoying for that reason alone.
Then there's the Start menu; the bane of the OS since Microsoft
decided to start fucking around with it again in Windows 8. Honestly,
I think it's the worst iteration, taking the worst parts of Metro and
trying to plaster over them with half-assed fixes. Sure, there are third-party apps to revert the shell to something halfway useful but I shouldn't HAVE to use something like that
(anyway, none of the third-party apps work that well with multiple
displays).
I've hacked together something halfway useful with a variety of
registry hacks and third-party fixes, but I've no confidence these
fixes will keep working six months down the line, and I've seen a
significant loss in capability even over Windows 10.
I'll grant you this much, Windows 11 is a fairly swift and stable OS,
but that's hardly remarkable; prior versions of Windows were no
slouches in this area, and if there's a five or ten percent speed
boost over Windows 10, it's not noticeable. And crashes? The number of blue-screens I've seen since I installed XP - twenty years! - can
probably be counted on my two hands. It's a solved issue, and I'm not crediting Windows 11 for any of it.
Of course, there are alternatives. Proton on Linux is remarkably
compatible, even if the OS does have a significant learning curve;
Linux was my OS of choice for 'secure' work (like checking the bank
accounts) while I was stuck in the Win7 doldrums. And Windows 10 -
flawed as it is - remains a more palatable vision. At least it doesn't
force you to combine buttons on the taskbar...
Windows 11? It's only on my PC because I know it's inevitable. But
it's nothing I'd recommend.
</rant>
Which leads to the major complaint I have with the OS; it's too
domineering. With Win11, even more than with Windows 10, it's not /my/ >computer; it's Microsoft's. Features are added or removed at
Microsoft's whims, and decisions I've made are changed regardless of
my opinion to better fit with Microsoft's vision.
Thank you for reinforcing my decision to do my best to never move to
Windows 11.
<rant>
I'm going to tell you a deep, dark secret. Okay, it's not very deep or
dark, and not really a secret, but you probably didn't know (and, I
admit, didn't really care to know) the following either. But here it
is, regardless:
Until a month ago, I was still using Windows 7 as my primary gaming
machine and - indeed - my daily driver for most of my work. Oh, I had
access to Windows 10 - and other operating systems - for when software
(or situation) required, but most of the time when I sat down to work
or play? Yeah, Windows 7 was what I was using.
But I knew that my reliance on that outdated, 15-year old OS was one
with an obvious (some would say long-past) end-date, and my next PC
was going to have to use something else, and when the inevitable
upgrade came around, it came with Windows 11.
And I hate it.
Well, hate is perhaps too strong a word. But there's a lot about it
that I dislike. Some of the problems I've been able to work around,
but others remain consistent thorns in my side.
There's Microsoft's insistence on tying its OS to its online services. Because I paid a premium, I could at least use the computer without registering the PC with a Microsoft account (that's not an option if
you use the Home edition), but it's still annoyingly insistent at
times. I've done my best to disable most of the more egregious demands
- no more 'hints' (aka adverts) to use MS software the lock screen,
thank you very much), but God forbid I hit Win+C; Microsoft Teams will
pop up whether I want it or not (even after I uninstalled the damn
thing, it will helpfully reinstall the program... even if I've
followed Microsoft's own instructions and disabled that 'feature' with
a registry hack). And -even after too many of those MS apps that I've uninstalled come back after Windows Update is done doing its thing.
Which leads to the major complaint I have with the OS; it's too
domineering. With Win11, even more than with Windows 10, it's not /my/ computer; it's Microsoft's. Features are added or removed at
Microsoft's whims, and decisions I've made are changed regardless of
my opinion to better fit with Microsoft's vision. Don't even get me
started on forced updates.
They've even fucked up gaming. Microsoft completely revamped how 'notifications' are handled (because that was a feature absolutely
needed on a desktop OS, right?), and Windows - and other apps - is constantly stealing focus from the active program. Sometimes this is inconsequential; even as I was writing this sentence, the desktop
wallpaper changed in the background, and the active app flicked in and
out of focus but it didn't really interrupt my workflow except for a momentary visual aberration. But earlier today, as I was driving down
the road in Eurotruck Simulator, I was pulled out of the game for some reminder, and - unguided by human hand - my truck ended up slamming
into a tree. (I had similar happenstance in 'Cyberpunk 2077'). You can disable notifications, but it's an all-or-nothing thing. Notifications
were largely a solved problem prior to this; this reversion is
annoying for that reason alone.
Then there's the Start menu; the bane of the OS since Microsoft
decided to start fucking around with it again in Windows 8. Honestly,
I think it's the worst iteration, taking the worst parts of Metro and
trying to plaster over them with half-assed fixes. Sure, there are third-party apps to revert the shell to something halfway useful but I shouldn't HAVE to use something like that
(anyway, none of the third-party apps work that well with multiple displays).
I've hacked together something halfway useful with a variety of
registry hacks and third-party fixes, but I've no confidence these
fixes will keep working six months down the line, and I've seen a significant loss in capability even over Windows 10.
I'll grant you this much, Windows 11 is a fairly swift and stable OS,
but that's hardly remarkable; prior versions of Windows were no
slouches in this area, and if there's a five or ten percent speed
boost over Windows 10, it's not noticeable. And crashes? The number of blue-screens I've seen since I installed XP - twenty years! - can
probably be counted on my two hands. It's a solved issue, and I'm not crediting Windows 11 for any of it.
Of course, there are alternatives. Proton on Linux is remarkably
compatible, even if the OS does have a significant learning curve;
Linux was my OS of choice for 'secure' work (like checking the bank accounts) while I was stuck in the Win7 doldrums. And Windows 10 -
flawed as it is - remains a more palatable vision. At least it doesn't
force you to combine buttons on the taskbar...
Windows 11? It's only on my PC because I know it's inevitable. But
it's nothing I'd recommend.
Of course, there are alternatives. Proton on Linux is remarkably
compatible, even if the OS does have a significant learning curve;
On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 11:13:32???AM UTC-7, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
<rant>
I'm going to tell you a deep, dark secret. Okay, it's not very deep or dark, and not really a secret, but you probably didn't know (and, I
admit, didn't really care to know) the following either. But here it
is, regardless:
Until a month ago, I was still using Windows 7 as my primary gaming
machine and - indeed - my daily driver for most of my work. Oh, I had access to Windows 10 - and other operating systems - for when software
(or situation) required, but most of the time when I sat down to work
or play? Yeah, Windows 7 was what I was using.
But I knew that my reliance on that outdated, 15-year old OS was one
with an obvious (some would say long-past) end-date, and my next PC
was going to have to use something else, and when the inevitable
upgrade came around, it came with Windows 11.
And I hate it.
Well, hate is perhaps too strong a word. But there's a lot about it
that I dislike. Some of the problems I've been able to work around,
but others remain consistent thorns in my side.
There's Microsoft's insistence on tying its OS to its online services. Because I paid a premium, I could at least use the computer without registering the PC with a Microsoft account (that's not an option if
you use the Home edition), but it's still annoyingly insistent at
times. I've done my best to disable most of the more egregious demands
- no more 'hints' (aka adverts) to use MS software the lock screen,
thank you very much), but God forbid I hit Win+C; Microsoft Teams will
pop up whether I want it or not (even after I uninstalled the damn
thing, it will helpfully reinstall the program... even if I've
followed Microsoft's own instructions and disabled that 'feature' with
a registry hack). And -even after too many of those MS apps that I've uninstalled come back after Windows Update is done doing its thing.
Which leads to the major complaint I have with the OS; it's too domineering. With Win11, even more than with Windows 10, it's not /my/ computer; it's Microsoft's. Features are added or removed at
Microsoft's whims, and decisions I've made are changed regardless of
my opinion to better fit with Microsoft's vision. Don't even get me
started on forced updates.
They've even fucked up gaming. Microsoft completely revamped how 'notifications' are handled (because that was a feature absolutely
needed on a desktop OS, right?), and Windows - and other apps - is constantly stealing focus from the active program. Sometimes this is inconsequential; even as I was writing this sentence, the desktop
wallpaper changed in the background, and the active app flicked in and
out of focus but it didn't really interrupt my workflow except for a momentary visual aberration. But earlier today, as I was driving down
the road in Eurotruck Simulator, I was pulled out of the game for some reminder, and - unguided by human hand - my truck ended up slamming
into a tree. (I had similar happenstance in 'Cyberpunk 2077'). You can disable notifications, but it's an all-or-nothing thing. Notifications
were largely a solved problem prior to this; this reversion is
annoying for that reason alone.
Then there's the Start menu; the bane of the OS since Microsoft
decided to start fucking around with it again in Windows 8. Honestly,
I think it's the worst iteration, taking the worst parts of Metro and trying to plaster over them with half-assed fixes. Sure, there are third-party apps to revert the shell to something halfway useful but I shouldn't HAVE to use something like that
(anyway, none of the third-party apps work that well with multiple displays).
I've hacked together something halfway useful with a variety of
registry hacks and third-party fixes, but I've no confidence these
fixes will keep working six months down the line, and I've seen a significant loss in capability even over Windows 10.
I'll grant you this much, Windows 11 is a fairly swift and stable OS,
but that's hardly remarkable; prior versions of Windows were no
slouches in this area, and if there's a five or ten percent speed
boost over Windows 10, it's not noticeable. And crashes? The number of blue-screens I've seen since I installed XP - twenty years! - can
probably be counted on my two hands. It's a solved issue, and I'm not crediting Windows 11 for any of it.
Of course, there are alternatives. Proton on Linux is remarkably compatible, even if the OS does have a significant learning curve;
Linux was my OS of choice for 'secure' work (like checking the bank accounts) while I was stuck in the Win7 doldrums. And Windows 10 -
flawed as it is - remains a more palatable vision. At least it doesn't force you to combine buttons on the taskbar...
Windows 11? It's only on my PC because I know it's inevitable. But
it's nothing I'd recommend.
I agree with everything said, though I only use W11 at work because
it's required. I'm on win 10 on my gaming PC.
I also hate the newer settings which could be mostly avoided with W10.
I think it's the ghost of 98se & vista returned.
Windows 11? It's only on my PC because I know it's inevitable. But
it's nothing I'd recommend.
On Sun, 18 Jun 2023 14:13:25 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson ><spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
Windows 11? It's only on my PC because I know it's inevitable. But
it's nothing I'd recommend.
Interesting rant
I have Windows 11 on one PC that I sometimes game on. It's OK but I'm
not at all enthused to 'upgrade' my main gaming PC from 10 to 11. I
don't care for it as an OS for daily use.
I also have an XP machine and a 98 machine that I quite frequently use
for older games. Both OS's are on separate systems.
Windows 7 was really good as far as my memory serves me. I jumped on
Windows 10 on the Insider program and never went back.
I did try Windows 8 and hated it with a passion. I never ever used
Vista or Windows 2000 at home. I used all other versions of Windows
starting with Windows 2.0 on a 286 12 MHZ (gaming was very limited on
that one!)
If I had to choose one, I would plump for XP for gaming, for nothing
other than reasons of nostalgia I suppose, with 98 a close second.
At work, I used everything from 3.11 onwards. It never bothered me
which one I used.
Like you, I'll have to move to 11 at some point I suppose.
They've even fucked up gaming. Microsoft completely revamped how >'notifications' are handled (because that was a feature absolutely
needed on a desktop OS, right?), and Windows - and other apps - is
constantly stealing focus from the active program. Sometimes this is >inconsequential; even as I was writing this sentence, the desktop
wallpaper changed in the background, and the active app flicked in and
out of focus but it didn't really interrupt my workflow except for a >momentary visual aberration. But earlier today, as I was driving down
the road in Eurotruck Simulator, I was pulled out of the game for some >reminder, and - unguided by human hand - my truck ended up slamming
into a tree. (I had similar happenstance in 'Cyberpunk 2077'). You can >disable notifications, but it's an all-or-nothing thing. Notifications
were largely a solved problem prior to this; this reversion is
annoying for that reason alone.
I'll grant you this much, Windows 11 is a fairly swift and stable OS,
but that's hardly remarkable; prior versions of Windows were no
slouches in this area, and if there's a five or ten percent speed
boost over Windows 10, it's not noticeable. And crashes? The number of blue-screens I've seen since I installed XP - twenty years! - can
probably be counted on my two hands. It's a solved issue, and I'm not crediting Windows 11 for any of it.
Windows 11? It's only on my PC because I know it's inevitable. But
it's nothing I'd recommend.
I only update the OS when I have to or when I buy a new computer with
it preinstalled.
So far I've demurred the offers to "upgrade" my desktop but I do have a >lightweight laptop which came with Windows 11. I basically got it to
have a computer to get shit done and that I can give friends and family
and they can get their shit done on it too. On the go or at
home. Although the UI language is English and caps is mapped to control,
it's my computer after all. But then most of my family and friends don't
know what the control button is for anyways...
The biggest annoyance for me is the primitive task bar. With today's low >aspect displays I usually want it on the right edge. There's Explorer
Pathcer which brings back mostly the Windows 10 task bar including
placement on any edge. Problem is, when Windows is updated, things
sometimes break. Sometimes so badly I need to boot to safe mode to fix it.
So Explorer Patcher is hardly an ideal solution. But when it works, it's >brilliant. Or at least as good as Windows 10 which is pretty good.
As for the good, well, I really like how Windows 11 improves multiple
display support. You'd think Microsoft would've licked it a while ago
but no. In Windows 10 there's all this flickering and blinking and
general craziness when displays come and go. Some apps even place their >windows outside the visible area or minimize to a single pixel (looking
at Firefox, here). Windows 11 seems to skip all that weirdness and just
go.
Re the Windows account, I don't think I've bothered with that. Maybe
it's due to age, it's a 2021 Samsgung Galaxy Book Pro 360 and the
stronger push to having a Windows account has come later? Of course,
since it's a Samsung there's the extra push to have a Samsung account
too but I don't think I've needed that either.
On 18/06/2023 20:59, Mike S. wrote:
I only update the OS when I have to or when I buy a new computer with
it preinstalled.
Yep same here, I put off updating from Win7 to Win10 until MS announced support for Win7 was being withdrawn. I did have a slight moment of
panic when it seemed that the free upgrade had been withdrawn but a bit
of googlefoo fixed that for me.
JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
On 18/06/2023 20:59, Mike S. wrote:
I only update the OS when I have to or when I buy a new computer with
it preinstalled.
Yep same here, I put off updating from Win7 to Win10 until MS announced
support for Win7 was being withdrawn. I did have a slight moment of
panic when it seemed that the free upgrade had been withdrawn but a bit
of googlefoo fixed that for me.
For me, it was the newer hardwares. :(
On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 04:15:34 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
On 18/06/2023 20:59, Mike S. wrote:
I only update the OS when I have to or when I buy a new computer with
it preinstalled.
Yep same here, I put off updating from Win7 to Win10 until MS announced
support for Win7 was being withdrawn. I did have a slight moment of
panic when it seemed that the free upgrade had been withdrawn but a bit
of googlefoo fixed that for me.
For me, it was the newer hardwares. :(
Same, for my primary machine. Usually. Except when not.
But given that I've a herd of other PCs to tinker with, I'm never
limited to a single OS. Linux, MacOS, Haiku, DOS, Windows of every
variety; I got 'em all (but no, no TempleOS machine, stop asking). And
if I don't have a machine with an OS, there's always an emulator to
test it. And if even that isn't available, there's always a friend who
has the OS on their computer. So getting hands-on is never an issue.
Still, its rare that I upgrade the OS of a working machine. For one
thing, I almost never do 'in place' upgrades, because I find them too
messy and unreliable. Thus, a full wipe-n-reinstall is required, and
while the OS install is fairly quick, the time to apply all the
patches, install all the apps and tweak all the settings can be
enormous. And during that time I'm without my primary PC? Bah, humbug.
So usually I only do an OS upgrade when I get a new PC. There are, of
course, exceptions (I think I jumped from XP to Win7), but they're
rare.
Besides, new Operating Systems almost inevitably require more
horsepower than the old ones, and who wants to upgrade their PC only
to discover it's running SLOWER? At least with new hardware, the added overhead is disguised by the added performance.
Explorer patcher is a must, if you want to move your taskbar or
prevent the shell from merging duplicate windows into a single button. >Microsoft's insistence on constantly changing the interface is the
bane of many users and enterprises, and their tone-deaf refusal to
listen to criticism or suggestions is telling.
Even with that fixed, I'd still rather be using Windows 7. It was the
last version of Windows to support the classic Windows 95 style UI desgin, which was both simple and effective. Buttons that looked like buttons without having to look like real shiny plastic buttons. But Windows
7 hardware support is dead at this point, and most new games won't run
on it. So my new computer has Windows 11 and I'l eventually make it my
main PC.
Ross Ridge <rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
...
Even with that fixed, I'd still rather be using Windows 7. It was the
last version of Windows to support the classic Windows 95 style UI desgin, >> which was both simple and effective. Buttons that looked like buttons
without having to look like real shiny plastic buttons. But Windows
7 hardware support is dead at this point, and most new games won't run
on it. So my new computer has Windows 11 and I'l eventually make it my
main PC.
W2K was the best Windows version of all! :( Windows and other OSes keep >getting worse IMO. So yeah, W7 > W10 > W11. Heck, I'd even use Vista
over them.
On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 23:35:44 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
Ross Ridge <rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
...
Even with that fixed, I'd still rather be using Windows 7. It was the
last version of Windows to support the classic Windows 95 style UI desgin, >>> which was both simple and effective. Buttons that looked like buttons
without having to look like real shiny plastic buttons. But Windows
7 hardware support is dead at this point, and most new games won't run
on it. So my new computer has Windows 11 and I'l eventually make it my
main PC.
W2K was the best Windows version of all! :( Windows and other OSes keep >>getting worse IMO. So yeah, W7 > W10 > W11. Heck, I'd even use Vista
over them.
Vista gets a bad rap. It's not entirely undeserved, but it's a lot
better than most people think. Windows 7 is, essentially, Vista with
some of the rougher edges sanded down, and W7 is considered one of the
better editions of the OS.
Several things hampered Vista's uptake.
IIRC, Vista also launched before Nvidia's drivers were fully ready, which meant that the whole aero interface didn't work properly, video crashes,
etc. I remember muttering to myself that you don't release without major third party vendors ready to go. Microsoft did. Nvidia's fault. MS got
the blame though.
Also, Aero let users enable it whose systems had no business doing so.
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
...
IIRC, Vista also launched before Nvidia's drivers were fully ready, which
meant that the whole aero interface didn't work properly, video crashes,
etc. I remember muttering to myself that you don't release without major
third party vendors ready to go. Microsoft did. Nvidia's fault. MS got
the blame though.
Also, Aero let users enable it whose systems had no business doing so.
Wow, NVIDIA waited after Vista? When I was working for Symantec, we had
to crunch on getting Norton products ready for it! NVIDIA had a lot of
time to test too! So yeah, they failed.
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 21:34:34 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
...
IIRC, Vista also launched before Nvidia's drivers were fully ready, which >>> meant that the whole aero interface didn't work properly, video crashes, >>> etc. I remember muttering to myself that you don't release without major >>> third party vendors ready to go. Microsoft did. Nvidia's fault. MS got
the blame though.
Also, Aero let users enable it whose systems had no business doing so.
Wow, NVIDIA waited after Vista? When I was working for Symantec, we had
to crunch on getting Norton products ready for it! NVIDIA had a lot of
time to test too! So yeah, they failed.
That's not entirely accurate. There were WHQL-certified drivers for
nVidia cards available for Vista prior to launch.
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 18:48:49 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 21:34:34 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
...
IIRC, Vista also launched before Nvidia's drivers were fully ready, which >>>> meant that the whole aero interface didn't work properly, video crashes, >>>> etc. I remember muttering to myself that you don't release without major >>>> third party vendors ready to go. Microsoft did. Nvidia's fault. MS got >>>> the blame though.
Also, Aero let users enable it whose systems had no business doing so.
Wow, NVIDIA waited after Vista? When I was working for Symantec, we had
to crunch on getting Norton products ready for it! NVIDIA had a lot of
time to test too! So yeah, they failed.
That's not entirely accurate. There were WHQL-certified drivers for
nVidia cards available for Vista prior to launch.
Yeah, they were WHQL; so Microsoft's fault too. They certified the mess.
Basically, the whole thing went out half-baked, instead of "it's done
when it's done." Bad choice. Made by marketers I'm sure. I hope someone
got fired.
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 18:48:49 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 21:34:34 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
...
IIRC, Vista also launched before Nvidia's drivers were fully ready, which >>>> meant that the whole aero interface didn't work properly, video crashes, >>>> etc. I remember muttering to myself that you don't release without major >>>> third party vendors ready to go. Microsoft did. Nvidia's fault. MS got >>>> the blame though.
Also, Aero let users enable it whose systems had no business doing so.
Wow, NVIDIA waited after Vista? When I was working for Symantec, we had >>>to crunch on getting Norton products ready for it! NVIDIA had a lot of >>>time to test too! So yeah, they failed.
That's not entirely accurate. There were WHQL-certified drivers for
nVidia cards available for Vista prior to launch.
Yeah, they were WHQL; so Microsoft's fault too. They certified the mess.
Basically, the whole thing went out half-baked, instead of "it's done
when it's done." Bad choice. Made by marketers I'm sure. I hope someone
got fired.
Microsoft did a major overhaul of the video system, removing it from the >kernel, and they should have done far more extensive testing. I'm pretty
sure they just slapped on the WHQL imprimatur just to release.
So again, MS not completely innocent here, but it was good to revert from
the days of NT4 when the video was wrapped up in the kernel in the first >place. Remember the new OpenGL screensavers?
TL;DR: Vista wasn't as bad as people remember.
On Wed, 28 Jun 2023 08:00:40 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 18:48:49 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 21:34:34 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
...
IIRC, Vista also launched before Nvidia's drivers were fully ready, which >>>>> meant that the whole aero interface didn't work properly, video crashes, >>>>> etc. I remember muttering to myself that you don't release without major >>>>> third party vendors ready to go. Microsoft did. Nvidia's fault. MS got >>>>> the blame though.Wow, NVIDIA waited after Vista? When I was working for Symantec, we had >>>>to crunch on getting Norton products ready for it! NVIDIA had a lot of >>>>time to test too! So yeah, they failed.
Also, Aero let users enable it whose systems had no business doing so. >>>>
That's not entirely accurate. There were WHQL-certified drivers for >>>nVidia cards available for Vista prior to launch.
Yeah, they were WHQL; so Microsoft's fault too. They certified the mess.
Basically, the whole thing went out half-baked, instead of "it's done
when it's done." Bad choice. Made by marketers I'm sure. I hope someone
got fired.
Microsoft did a major overhaul of the video system, removing it from the >>kernel, and they should have done far more extensive testing. I'm pretty >>sure they just slapped on the WHQL imprimatur just to release.
So again, MS not completely innocent here, but it was good to revert from >>the days of NT4 when the video was wrapped up in the kernel in the first >>place. Remember the new OpenGL screensavers?
No. ;-)
But there significant performance gains to running video-drivers in
the kernel-space, and back when CPUs measured their speed in dozens -
or even a few hundred - megahertz, you needed to eke out every
advantage you could. I don't fault Microsoft for allowing ring-0
drivers; the performance hit would have made Windows unsuitable for
gaming for close to a decade otherwise.
Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> writes:
TL;DR: Vista wasn't as bad as people remember.
I suppose. My only experience was with a slowish Toshiba Portege R500, >somewhen 2007 or 2008. I think the driver issues were sorted by then or >weren't relevant to Intel graphics.
But Vista was easily to heavy for that laptop, a 5400 RPM HD and slow
CPU (Core 2 Duo U7700 2 x 1.3 GHz) and I think 2 GB RAM.
Once I got the internal 3G modem's FW updated in Vista, I upgraded it to >Fedora Linux and was quite happy with it for a few years.
As you said, Windows 7 is much the same as Vista. To me the big
difference to XP was that both have the same heavy disk access need
which bogs them down. OK with a decent HD let alone an SSD but a with
5400 RPM drive... Not fun.
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