Played
Blake Stone: Aliens of Gold - used the Wolfenstein engine licensed by iD >after they released DOOM
Ken's Labyrinth - early other 3d engine from epic megagames as I recall
- not very developed, but it was very early in 3d
Shadowcaster - had some serious bugs, but very fun while it worked
Cybermage: Darklight Awakening - loved this game - spell-like abilities, >vehicles etc in an era where DOOM could barely fake having 3d
Tekwar - not only played the game, own the TV series on DVD
Mortyr 2093-1944 - vaguely remember the name Mortyr - awful game as I
recall
When it comes to classic FPS games, everybody knows "Doom",
"Wolfenstein 3D", "Quake", and "Duke Nukem 3D". Some may remember less well-known games such as "Strife", "System Shock", "Blood", or
"Descent". But the first-person shooter genre was rife with titles,
and for all the greats of that era, there were a dozen more that have
been forgotten in the intervening decades.
So, finding this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lGlyxFLuDU the
other day was a fun reminder of some of these lost examples of early
FPS games*. Me - being the DOS-era games afficiando that I am - I was
already familiar with the vast majority of the games showcased, but
even I discovered a few new ones (I could also point out a few the
video missed, such as "Nam", "Tunnel B1", and "Deus" ;-)
Of course, some of these games have been forgotten because they were -
at best - unoriginal and derivative. For most, though, that would be
an aspirational goal; there are a lot of stinkers in the list. There
are a few that I remember, if not fondly, then with a certain respect.
"ZPC", for instance, was one of the first FPS games to use the
cel-shaded art-style, "Rebel Moon" for its colored-lighting, and
"Chasm: The Rift" as a "Quake" for those still on a 80386.
So watch the video; maybe you'll rediscover one or two games you loved
(or at least played) and haven't given a thought to in years.
-------------------
* Full list for those not interested in watching the video:
Corporation / Cybercon III / Robocop 3 / Blake Stone: Aliens of
Gold / Bram Stoker's Dracula / In Extremis / Island Peril /
Isle of the Dead / Ken's Labyrinth / Lethal Tender /
Shadowcaster / Terminator Rampage / Corridor 7 / CyClones /
Depth Dwellers / Fortress of Dr. Radiaki / Hidden Below /
Nitemare 3D / Operation Bodycount / Cybermage: Darklight
Awakening / Dungeons of Kremlin / In Pursuit of Greed /
Killing Time / HURL / La Cosa Nostra / Nerves of Steel /
Old Gold 3D / Tekwar / Virus Explosion / Witchaven / Wrath
of Earth / Angst: Rahzs Revenge / Assassin 2015 / Azrael's
Tear / Cyberdillo / Marathon 2: Durandal / Rebel Moon / Rex
Blade / XS / ZPC / Chasm: The Rift / Forbes Corporate
Warrior / Last Rites / Lifeforce Tenka / Mars3D / Damage
Incorporated / Incidente em Varginha / Liquidator /
Target / Mortyr 2093-1944 / Pyl / Raising Dead /
Redline / Incidente em Varginha / Liquidator / Target /
Mortyr 2093-1944 / Pyl / Raising Dead / Redline
On Sun, 21 May 2023 15:58:47 -0400, Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote:
Played
Blake Stone: Aliens of Gold - used the Wolfenstein engine licensed by iD >>after they released DOOM
<pedant mode>
(which is to say, I am nudging my glasses back up onto my nose and
speaking with a nasally voice)
Actually, I think you'll find that the game was released BEFORE Doom.
I mean, sure, it was only FIVE DAYS before Doom, but that still means
it came out first.
(snort-laugh)
</pedant mode>
"Blake Stone" actually added a number of features to the Wolf3D game
(it's been a while so correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall you could
revisit levels, ammo lying around would explode if you shot it, it had
an inventory system, and NPCs you could interact with), which were
quite impressive additions. Unfortunately, the core gameplay -
shooting bad guys in overly mazelike levels whilst collecting loot to
earn the high score - hadn't changed a bit, which made "Blake Stone"
feel more like an overly ambitious Wolf3D mod than a game that stood
on its own merits.
Oh, and that whole "Doom" thing might have had a bit of an impact too.
;-)
Ken's Labyrinth - early other 3d engine from epic megagames as I recall
- not very developed, but it was very early in 3d
IIRC, "Ken's Labyrinth" was originally designed as Ken Silverman as a >tech-demo for his 3D engine. The game itself was entirely secondary;
even for the time, the story was throw-away (Aliens kidnapped your dog
so go rescue him!). Silverman would later jump ship to Apogee where he >created the Build engine that powered a little game called "Duke Nukem
3D" (AFAIK, the two engines were distinct, but techniques learned from >creating KL were used in DN3D).
Shadowcaster - had some serious bugs, but very fun while it worked
I don't recall any bugs, but it was an Origin game so it probably was >chock-full of 'em. "Shadowcaster" - created by Raven games - also
utilized the Wolf3D engine, starting a long relationship between that >developer and Id Games. It was a fantasy FPS where you took the role
of a mighty-morphing teenager who could transform into various beast
forms. Like "Blake Stone" above, Raven added a number of features to
the core engine - vastly improved graphics, swimming, inventory, etc.
Still, the limitations of the engine, the fact that most of your
combat was melee-only, and the still too-mazelike levels made for a
mediocre game. It was an impressive freshman effort for Raven, but
beyond that was mostly forgettable.
Cybermage: Darklight Awakening - loved this game - spell-like abilities, >>vehicles etc in an era where DOOM could barely fake having 3d
"Cybermage's" biggest improvement over other Doom-clones was its
addition of SVGA graphics. Unfortunately, few PCs of the era could
manage to run the game at SVGA, which meant few games could experience >"Cybermage" in its full glory. This was partly due to the limited CPU
power of the time, but also due to poor optimization (years later, PCs
would /still/ struggle with the game). What was left was a mediocre
shooter. Personally, I always found the game's graphics to be a bit
too murky and dark, and the interface was pretty clunky. Like many
Origin games, it was overly ambitious, throwing in all sorts of new
features and an overbearing story. It didn't really stand out from the
crowd either, being exactly as 2.5D as its competitors, and even the
vehicle modes (really just a cockpit texture pasted on top of your
HUD) had been used in other, better games.
Tekwar - not only played the game, own the TV series on DVD
Released by Capcom (the pinnacle of entertainment!) fully in the
middle of the live-action video craze, "Tek War" featured video of
William Shatner revisiting his role as Walter Bascom. The game was
extremely unpolished; it utilized a prototype version of the Build
engine. Some of its levels were impressive... in concept if not >actualization. It was one of the earliest attempts of a game to try
and recreate a "real world" environment rather than the surreal mazes
that dominated the genre, and it made an earnest effort at it. The
game's city featured NPCs (who you'd get penalized for shooting) and a
bus and subway system you could use to quickly navigate the streets.
But the actual combat mechanics were awful, with underpowered weapons, >brain-dead AI and floaty movement.
Mortyr 2093-1944 - vaguely remember the name Mortyr - awful game as I >>recall
"Mortyr" got a really bad reputation here on this very newsgroup, with
a lot of people blasting it as 'the worst FPS ever made'. I don't
think it really deserved that title but it wasn't a very good FPS
either... and its fascination with Nazi Germany felt sort of icky
(even if, ultimately, your goal was to undermine the regime). These
days it would be probably seen as an early example of a 'Slav-jank'
game and in some respects the game was notable (visually I think it
was actually a small cut above its competitors, for instance).
Nonetheless, it's not really a game worth seeking out. Not being
totally awful still isn't much of a recommendation.
Of all the games listed in that video, there are only a handful I
haven't heard of or played; specifically, Cybercon III,
Lethal Tender, Hidden Below, Dungeons of Kremlin, La Costra Nostra,
Virus Explosion, Forbes Corporate Warrior, Lifeforce Tenka, Mars 3D,
Damage Incorporated, Liquidator, Pyl, Raising Dead.
Most of the ones I missed are either Russian imports (e,g, Lethal
Tender, Dungeons of Kremlin), small shareware or demo releases (Costra >Nostra), or from the Win9x era (most of the last third of the list).
But over the years I've managed to acquire most of the rest. Whether
this is because I've an interest in the history and development of the
genre or am just punishing myself for some long-forgotten sin is a
question for the reader to decide. ;-P
Had not heard of any of these, but then that was the BBS life back then,
the BBS had only what the Sysop had snagged (or someone else uploaded,)
and that was _very_ much dependant on where you were and the costs
associated with snagging those files.
Marathon 2 was mentioned, but didn't the first game get ported to PCs
after Macs release? I know I briefly played it on my college dorm
ROOMMATE (Bullfrog)'s new PowerMac back then.
Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote:
...
Had not heard of any of these, but then that was the BBS life back then, the BBS had only what the Sysop had snagged (or someone else uploaded,)
and that was _very_ much dependant on where you were and the costs associated with snagging those files.
Well, CDs & Internet existed back then too! ;)
I played these five from this compiled nostaglia video:
Blake Stone: Aliens of Gold (Jam Productions - 1993)
Ken's Labyrinth (Advanced Systems - 1993) 01:36
Terminator Rampage (Bethesda - 1993) 02:12
Corridor 7 (Capstone - 1994) 02:24
Tekwar (Capstone - 1995) 05:24
Witchaven (Capstone - 1995) 05:48
Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote:
Marathon 2 was mentioned, but didn't the first game get ported to PCs
after Macs release? I know I briefly played it on my college dorm's
new PowerMac back then.
I thought you had pokemon disease - you have to collect em all?
When it comes to classic FPS games, everybody knows "Doom",
"Wolfenstein 3D", "Quake", and "Duke Nukem 3D". Some may remember less >well-known games such as "Strife", "System Shock", "Blood", or
"Descent". But the first-person shooter genre was rife with titles,
and for all the greats of that era, there were a dozen more that have
been forgotten in the intervening decades.
So, finding this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lGlyxFLuDU the
other day was a fun reminder of some of these lost examples of early
FPS games*. Me - being the DOS-era games afficiando that I am - I was
already familiar with the vast majority of the games showcased, but
even I discovered a few new ones (I could also point out a few the
video missed, such as "Nam", "Tunnel B1", and "Deus" ;-)
Of course, some of these games have been forgotten because they were -
at best - unoriginal and derivative. For most, though, that would be
an aspirational goal; there are a lot of stinkers in the list. There
are a few that I remember, if not fondly, then with a certain respect.
"ZPC", for instance, was one of the first FPS games to use the
cel-shaded art-style, "Rebel Moon" for its colored-lighting, and
"Chasm: The Rift" as a "Quake" for those still on a 80386.
So watch the video; maybe you'll rediscover one or two games you loved
(or at least played) and haven't given a thought to in years.
<snip not my comment>Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote:
I thought you had pokemon disease - you have to collect em all?
Yes, but it does more for my self-esteem if I describe my condition as
"an avid interest in the history and development of DOS games" rather
than as a Pokemon-class hoarder. ;-)
Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote:
...
Had not heard of any of these, but then that was the BBS life back then,
the BBS had only what the Sysop had snagged (or someone else uploaded,)
and that was _very_ much dependant on where you were and the costs
associated with snagging those files.
Well, CDs & Internet existed back then too! ;)
ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) looked up from reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote:
...
Had not heard of any of these, but then that was the BBS life back then, >> the BBS had only what the Sysop had snagged (or someone else uploaded,)
and that was _very_ much dependant on where you were and the costs
associated with snagging those files.
Well, CDs & Internet existed back then too! ;)
Early 90s though when DOOM came out, it mostly was not available to the average person at home - not at affordable rates anyway.
So either you had access at Uni or work or you had no access.
Unless you were rich.
I don't think affordable internet came to town for the average person
until around 2000 here.
Just checked, original setup cd for my first internet access (Dialup) is labeled 2000, but copyrighted 1999.
Roommate some years earlier had a shell account back in 95 I think, but
he paid a hellacious amount for it, like $200 a month for dialup access.
Regular access in 2000 was more like $20 I think.
On Sun, 21 May 2023 10:07:30 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
When it comes to classic FPS games, everybody knows "Doom",
"Wolfenstein 3D", "Quake", and "Duke Nukem 3D". Some may remember less >well-known games such as "Strife", "System Shock", "Blood", or
"Descent". But the first-person shooter genre was rife with titles,
and for all the greats of that era, there were a dozen more that have
been forgotten in the intervening decades.
So, finding this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lGlyxFLuDU the >other day was a fun reminder of some of these lost examples of early
FPS games*. Me - being the DOS-era games afficiando that I am - I was >already familiar with the vast majority of the games showcased, but
even I discovered a few new ones (I could also point out a few the
video missed, such as "Nam", "Tunnel B1", and "Deus" ;-)
Of course, some of these games have been forgotten because they were -
at best - unoriginal and derivative. For most, though, that would be
an aspirational goal; there are a lot of stinkers in the list. There
are a few that I remember, if not fondly, then with a certain respect. >"ZPC", for instance, was one of the first FPS games to use the
cel-shaded art-style, "Rebel Moon" for its colored-lighting, and
"Chasm: The Rift" as a "Quake" for those still on a 80386.
So watch the video; maybe you'll rediscover one or two games you loved
(or at least played) and haven't given a thought to in years.
I'm surprised LucasArts "Outlaws" wasn't in there. That game got very
little coverage back in the day. "Redneck Rampage" maybe too.
Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote:
ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote:
...
Had not heard of any of these, but then that was the BBS life back then, >> >> the BBS had only what the Sysop had snagged (or someone else uploaded,) >> >> and that was _very_ much dependant on where you were and the costs
associated with snagging those files.
Well, CDs & Internet existed back then too! ;)
Early 90s though when DOOM came out, it mostly was not available to the
average person at home - not at affordable rates anyway.
So either you had access at Uni or work or you had no access.
Unless you were rich.
I don't think affordable internet came to town for the average person
until around 2000 here.
Well, I had dial-up accounts with colleges, Netcom, and then EarthLink. ;P
Just checked, original setup cd for my first internet access (Dialup) is
labeled 2000, but copyrighted 1999.
Roommate some years earlier had a shell account back in 95 I think, but
he paid a hellacious amount for it, like $200 a month for dialup access.
$200?! Seriously?
Regular access in 2000 was more like $20 I think.
That sounds about right. I think college was $10 per month and then
Netcom and Earthlink were like $20.
Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote:
ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote:
...
Had not heard of any of these, but then that was the BBS life back then, >>> >> the BBS had only what the Sysop had snagged (or someone else uploaded,) >>> >> and that was _very_ much dependant on where you were and the costs
associated with snagging those files.
Well, CDs & Internet existed back then too! ;)
Early 90s though when DOOM came out, it mostly was not available to the
average person at home - not at affordable rates anyway.
So either you had access at Uni or work or you had no access.
Unless you were rich.
I don't think affordable internet came to town for the average person
until around 2000 here.
Well, I had dial-up accounts with colleges, Netcom, and then EarthLink. ;P
Just checked, original setup cd for my first internet access (Dialup) is >>> labeled 2000, but copyrighted 1999.
Roommate some years earlier had a shell account back in 95 I think, but
he paid a hellacious amount for it, like $200 a month for dialup access.
$200?! Seriously?
For a shell account, not basic dialup.
Might have been less than that but it was still quite a lot.
You got to log into their UNIX server and do all the things that lets
you do (like FAST downloading at speeds higher than dialup could do,
then dialup speed download to the home computer later.)
Don't remember now all the shit he could do with it, but he felt it was
worth it.
Regular access in 2000 was more like $20 I think.
That sounds about right. I think college was $10 per month and then
Netcom and Earthlink were like $20.
We got free access in college (literally in the college, not home
access,) but it was quite limited - pre WWW, looking stuff up with
Archie or Veronica, FTPing files back to your account on the SUN
Microsystems min-mainframe, then going into the PC lab to cross link
into your UNIX account so you could get those files onto a floppy to
take home to, among other things, modify DOOM.
The internet was very much not user friendly in the pre-web days.
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 21 May 2023 10:07:30 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
I'm surprised LucasArts "Outlaws" wasn't in there. That game got very
little coverage back in the day. "Redneck Rampage" maybe too.
Outlaws game was fun especially its multiplayer. Its introduction made
me sad. :~( Redeck Rampage, Blood, etc. were OK. You guys forgot Heretic, Hexen, Strife, etc. ;)
ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) looked up from reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote:
ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote:
...
Had not heard of any of these, but then that was the BBS life back then,
the BBS had only what the Sysop had snagged (or someone else uploaded,) >> >> and that was _very_ much dependant on where you were and the costs
associated with snagging those files.
Well, CDs & Internet existed back then too! ;)
Early 90s though when DOOM came out, it mostly was not available to the
average person at home - not at affordable rates anyway.
So either you had access at Uni or work or you had no access.
Unless you were rich.
I don't think affordable internet came to town for the average person
until around 2000 here.
Well, I had dial-up accounts with colleges, Netcom, and then EarthLink. ;P
Just checked, original setup cd for my first internet access (Dialup) is >> labeled 2000, but copyrighted 1999.
Roommate some years earlier had a shell account back in 95 I think, but
he paid a hellacious amount for it, like $200 a month for dialup access.
$200?! Seriously?
For a shell account, not basic dialup.
Might have been less than that but it was still quite a lot.
You got to log into their UNIX server and do all the things that lets
you do (like FAST downloading at speeds higher than dialup could do,
then dialup speed download to the home computer later.)
Don't remember now all the shit he could do with it, but he felt it was
worth it.
Regular access in 2000 was more like $20 I think.
That sounds about right. I think college was $10 per month and then
Netcom and Earthlink were like $20.
We got free access in college (literally in the college, not home
access,) but it was quite limited - pre WWW, looking stuff up with
Archie or Veronica, FTPing files back to your account on the SUN
Microsystems min-mainframe, then going into the PC lab to cross link
into your UNIX account so you could get those files onto a floppy to
take home to, among other things, modify DOOM.
The internet was very much not user friendly in the pre-web days.
Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote:<snip>
We got free access in college (literally in the college, not home
access,) but it was quite limited - pre WWW, looking stuff up with
Archie or Veronica, FTPing files back to your account on the SUN
Microsystems min-mainframe, then going into the PC lab to cross link
into your UNIX account so you could get those files onto a floppy to
take home to, among other things, modify DOOM.
The internet was very much not user friendly in the pre-web days.
Shell, FTP, sz, rz, etc. I still use them like right now. ;) Also, TIA & >SLiRP for SLIP & PPP for web access via shell accounts. I was the first
to use in my university back then with Windows 3.1's Trumpet Winsock
software addon. Everyone wanted it. ;)
ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) looked up from reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote:<snip>
We got free access in college (literally in the college, not home
access,) but it was quite limited - pre WWW, looking stuff up with
Archie or Veronica, FTPing files back to your account on the SUN
Microsystems min-mainframe, then going into the PC lab to cross link
into your UNIX account so you could get those files onto a floppy to
take home to, among other things, modify DOOM.
The internet was very much not user friendly in the pre-web days.
Shell, FTP, sz, rz, etc. I still use them like right now. ;) Also, TIA & >SLiRP for SLIP & PPP for web access via shell accounts. I was the first
to use in my university back then with Windows 3.1's Trumpet Winsock >software addon. Everyone wanted it. ;)
Pretty sure nobody in the universe wanted Trumpet Winsock, it was just
what we were stuck with.
Roommate some years earlier had a shell account back in 95 I think, but
he paid a hellacious amount for it, like $200 a month for dialup access.
I had access to the "Internet" from... oh, I don't know. Late 80s,
early 90s. Its hard for me to be more specific because it wasn't
really called the Internet then. It just happened that the servers I
had access to connected to other servers across some backbone that I
rarely used. I wasn't frequently logging onto some FTP server on the
other side of the world, at least not directly. Even my emails were
almost entirely local. But technically, it was there, and I was
starting my slow exploration of this new interconnected world with
forays into FIDONet (or was it BITNet? I honestly can't remember)...
and later proper Usenet.
On 2023-05-21, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
Witchaven
This one I remember finding pretty enjoyable. Not sure it
quite fits the 'first person /shooter/' label (all weapons
there but one are close range... though there're also spells,
IIRC?), and perhaps the novelty of that offsets the somewhat
subpar (?) graphics, and the gameplay that would've been
entirely ordinary otherwise.
I think we've completed it in cooperative mode c. 1998.
Also played deathmatch, but I don't recall it to be any
better than that of the similarly "2.5D" Doom and Heretic.
(Add to that that the map editors for the latter, as well
as Duke Nukem 3D, were readily available at that point...)
On 2023-05-21, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
"Blake Stone" actually added a number of features to the Wolf3D game
(it's been a while so correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall you could revisit levels, ammo lying around would explode if you shot it, it had
an inventory system, and NPCs you could interact with), which were
quite impressive additions.
Unfortunately, the core gameplay - shooting bad guys in overly
mazelike levels whilst collecting loot to earn the high score -
hadn't changed a bit, which made "Blake Stone" feel more like an
overly ambitious Wolf3D mod than a game that stood on its own merits.
Oh, and that whole "Doom" thing might have had a bit of an impact too.
;-)
Lethal Tender
CyClones
Witchaven
Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> writes:
Roommate some years earlier had a shell account back in 95 I think, but
he paid a hellacious amount for it, like $200 a month for dialup access.
Damn. I remember I got my first paid for dialup back in 1995. The
monthly cost was just 35 Finnish Marks per month back then so that would something like $5... I think there was an additional charge by
connection time but it was really cheap.
But that was with an early ISP that was started by some tech students in
my university and they knew full well the school's modem pool was
getting very overloaded and also what students could afford. I think the school had maybe 10 or 20 modems and a few thousand students so
definitely not enough.
Anyways, got my first non-university email address from them too and I'm
only now starting to get rid of it since it actually costs money and
they're hiking the price and I get my shell/email/web hosting stuff elsewhere.
Mortyr 2093-1944 - vaguely remember the name Mortyr - awful game as I
recall
Arguably, some of the games in the original list ("Blake Stone", >"Shadowcaster", "Marathon", etc.)
Arguably, some of the games in the original list ("Blake Stone",
"Shadowcaster", "Marathon", etc.)
 Marathon is getting some sort of remaster/remake
On 5/25/2023 11:29 AM, rms wrote:
Arguably, some of the games in the original list ("Blake Stone",
"Shadowcaster", "Marathon", etc.)
Marathon is getting some sort of remaster/remake
These days it seems more games are getting remakes than not.
On Thu, 25 May 2023 14:33:53 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
On 5/25/2023 11:29 AM, rms wrote:
Arguably, some of the games in the original list ("Blake Stone",
"Shadowcaster", "Marathon", etc.)
Marathon is getting some sort of remaster/remake
These days it seems more games are getting remakes than not.
That's because most of the older IPs are owned by larger publishers,
and larger publishers are extremely loathe to try anything new or
risky. There's no guarantee that a new property will find an audience,
but a remake is all but guaranteed a certain number of sales, either
from the nostalgic who remember the game from their younger days, or
from people who have heard of this 'classic' but missed out on playing
it when it first came out.
Ignore all the fluff about how a remake is about "updating a game for
new technology" or "reintroducing a classic to a new audience". If
that was the case, they'd just re-release the original on GOG or
something. Remakes are solely made because they make money; they're
cheaper to make and have an immediate audience.
It's similar to why triple-A publishers LOVE sequels.
On Fri, 26 May 2023 09:27:16 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
On Thu, 25 May 2023 14:33:53 -0700, Dimensional Traveler ><dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
On 5/25/2023 11:29 AM, rms wrote:
Arguably, some of the games in the original list ("Blake Stone",
"Shadowcaster", "Marathon", etc.)
Marathon is getting some sort of remaster/remake
These days it seems more games are getting remakes than not.
That's because most of the older IPs are owned by larger publishers,
and larger publishers are extremely loathe to try anything new or
risky. There's no guarantee that a new property will find an audience,
but a remake is all but guaranteed a certain number of sales, either
from the nostalgic who remember the game from their younger days, or
from people who have heard of this 'classic' but missed out on playing
it when it first came out.
Ignore all the fluff about how a remake is about "updating a game for
new technology" or "reintroducing a classic to a new audience". If
that was the case, they'd just re-release the original on GOG or
something. Remakes are solely made because they make money; they're
cheaper to make and have an immediate audience.
It's similar to why triple-A publishers LOVE sequels.
That and an actual "experience the classic" experience will make your
eyes bleed.
After playing DOOM with GZDoom for years, I tried playing the original
again in DOSBox. TL;DR: YIKES.
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 26 May 2023 09:27:16 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
That and an actual "experience the classic" experience will make your
eyes bleed.
After playing DOOM with GZDoom for years, I tried playing the original
again in DOSBox. TL;DR: YIKES.
For me, https://dengine.net (still no new recent releases) so I can get >better graphics like polygon models and higher graphic textures. :) I
can't stand FPS' pixels anymore. :P
Similarly, I've tried mods (like Brutal Doom Black Edition*) that
upgraded the visuals tremendously, and - while everything looked nicer
- it just didn't feel like Doom. It's probably because the realistic
textures and lighting don't jibe well with the simplistic level
design; I think it is a variaton of the 'uncanny valley' effect except >extended to map-making.
I actually don't mind original-Doom's visuals (even though my
preferred method is with a source-port) and still fire it up
occassionally for nostalgia's sake. What I dislike about DOS-Doom,
though, is it's controls; my brain has been rewired to used
mouselook/WASD and going back to using the cursor keys is painful. But
the blocky pixels? I'm fine with those.
But you can go too far in the other direction with source-ports. The raytracing port I mentioned in an earlier post may have boasted
realistic lighting, but it cost the game its oppressive atmosphere. Similarly, I've tried mods (like Brutal Doom Black Edition*) that
upgraded the visuals tremendously, and - while everything looked nicer
- it just didn't feel like Doom. It's probably because the realistic
textures and lighting don't jibe well with the simplistic level
design; I think it is a variaton of the 'uncanny valley' effect except extended to map-making.
* see a trailer here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m65I6cUEUo
On 2023-05-27, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
On Sat, 27 May 2023 14:16:01 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
After playing DOOM with GZDoom for years, I tried playing the
original again in DOSBox. TL;DR: YIKES.
For me, https://dengine.net (still no new recent releases) so I can
get better graphics like polygon models and higher graphic textures. :)
I can't stand FPS' pixels anymore. :P
I actually don't mind original-Doom's visuals (even though my
preferred method is with a source-port) and still fire it up
occassionally for nostalgia's sake. What I dislike about DOS-Doom,
though, is it's controls; my brain has been rewired to used
mouselook/WASD and going back to using the cursor keys is painful.
But the blocky pixels? I'm fine with those.
Brutal Doom looked fun, but man the sprites. :P
I remember Rebel Moon with some fondness. The lighting effects were good at >the time, up there trying to compete with Quake 2
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