Hi all,

This is extremely off topic but I need a little help.

I work for a company that provides software for buying and selling items
and part of our system is the EPoS (Electronic Point of Sales or the
tills in shops). In England, the prices on the system are all including
tax because our tax laws are fairly simple but we now have a customer
that is opening a shop in America and we have to change the EPoS to
handle the shop sales.

As only a few of us have ever been to the USA and when we were visiting,
we didn't really pay attention to the sales, we are a little stuck.

Main thing we need to know is how are the values shown on the till?

We suspect that you, the buyer, would see the net prices being added up
and then you would see a grand total of how much you owe that includes
the tax.

Is that correct or do you see each item being added up with the tax
included in the price?

Side note, the shop is selling clothes and we have interfaces that allow
us to call a centralised system that sends back the various taxes that
have to be paid on the day so getting the taxable amounts is not a
problem, it is just really whether or not you see the gross or the net
value on the till.

Thanks very much in advance,

Geoff

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 23 Feb 2023 17:39:46 +0000, Geoff May <GeoffMay817@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi all,

This is extremely off topic but I need a little help.

I work for a company that provides software for buying and selling items
and part of our system is the EPoS (Electronic Point of Sales or the
tills in shops). In England, the prices on the system are all including
tax because our tax laws are fairly simple but we now have a customer
that is opening a shop in America and we have to change the EPoS to
handle the shop sales.

As only a few of us have ever been to the USA and when we were visiting,
we didn't really pay attention to the sales, we are a little stuck.

Main thing we need to know is how are the values shown on the till?

We suspect that you, the buyer, would see the net prices being added up
and then you would see a grand total of how much you owe that includes
the tax.

Is that correct or do you see each item being added up with the tax
included in the price?

Side note, the shop is selling clothes and we have interfaces that allow
us to call a centralised system that sends back the various taxes that
have to be paid on the day so getting the taxable amounts is not a
problem, it is just really whether or not you see the gross or the net
value on the till.

Thanks very much in advance,

Coming soon to PC - Register: The Game! See how many items you can
scan through correctly. Now with realistic receipts! ;-P

From what I recall - from the perspective of the customer - the prices
of each item are added in, then the tax is calculated on top of that.

So...
Item A $5,99
Item B $4,99
Item C $1,00
Subtotal $11,98
Tax $1,19
Total $13,17

Anyway, that's how it ends up looking on this old receipt I found.
IIRC, that's also how it looks on the register as it gets scanned by
the salesperson; each item's individual sales price is shown and the
tax is only visible afterwards.

But in the back-end it is far, far, FAR more complex, because US sales
taxes are *really* weird; it's never a flat rate you can just apply to
the total. Sometimes, for instance, milk is tax free, and socks are
charged at half the tax rate but pencils get the full rate. And the
items and percentages all varies from state to state, and even
depending on the county, town or city district. Plus, they fluctuate
constantly as new laws are enacted or adjusted. The TL;DR is that the
sales tax rates in the US are amazingly complex and if you absolutely, postively, without question will need to hire a professional
consultant on the matter.)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 23/02/2023 18:30, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

[snipped] The TL;DR is that the
sales tax rates in the US are amazingly complex and if you absolutely, postively, without question will need to hire a professional
consultant on the matter.)

Thank you, very much appreciated.

We were fairly sure that net prices are used and then the tax added at
the end. We have an interface to a third party where we tell them what
is being bought and the price and they send back the taxes associated.

Thanks

Geoff

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 23 Feb 2023 21:04:09 +0000, Geoff May <GeoffMay817@gmail.com>
wrote:

On 23/02/2023 18:30, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

[snipped] The TL;DR is that the
sales tax rates in the US are amazingly complex and if you absolutely,
postively, without question will need to hire a professional
consultant on the matter.)

Thank you, very much appreciated.

We were fairly sure that net prices are used and then the tax added at
the end. We have an interface to a third party where we tell them what
is being bought and the price and they send back the taxes associated.

I had to work with POS tax software once. That was enough. For
organizations so greedy about getting their fair due, governments sure
do make their rules about collecting it rather cryptic and complex.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2/24/2023 7:13 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

On Thu, 23 Feb 2023 21:04:09 +0000, Geoff May <GeoffMay817@gmail.com>
wrote:

On 23/02/2023 18:30, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

[snipped] The TL;DR is that the
sales tax rates in the US are amazingly complex and if you absolutely,
postively, without question will need to hire a professional
consultant on the matter.)

Thank you, very much appreciated.

We were fairly sure that net prices are used and then the tax added at
the end. We have an interface to a third party where we tell them what
is being bought and the price and they send back the taxes associated.

I had to work with POS tax software once. That was enough. For
organizations so greedy about getting their fair due, governments sure
do make their rules about collecting it rather cryptic and complex.

The US tax code tends to get used less for collecting the operating
expenses of the government and more an attempt at social engineering.
The results tend to be sub-optimal for either use.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 24/02/2023 17:24, Dimensional Traveler wrote:

On 2/24/2023 7:13 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

On Thu, 23 Feb 2023 21:04:09 +0000, Geoff May <GeoffMay817@gmail.com>
wrote:

On 23/02/2023 18:30, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

[snipped] The TL;DR is that the
sales tax rates in the US are amazingly complex and if you absolutely, >>>> postively, without question will need to hire a professional
consultant on the matter.)

Thank you, very much appreciated.

We were fairly sure that net prices are used and then the tax added at
the end. We have an interface to a third party where we tell them what
is being bought and the price and they send back the taxes associated.

I had to work with POS tax software once. That was enough. For
organizations so greedy about getting their fair due, governments sure
do make their rules about collecting it rather cryptic and complex.

The US tax code tends to get used less for collecting the operating
expenses of the government and more an attempt at social engineering.
The results tend to be sub-optimal for either use.

Being in the UK taxes in the US when buying things confuses me because
even though we do have them it's very much hidden from the customer so
the price displayed is what you pay and then it's up to the company to
sort it out.

I think it was possibly in New York when staying in a hotel they had the headline price and then something like three other taxes added on.
What's that all about?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2/25/2023 3:06 AM, JAB wrote:

On 24/02/2023 17:24, Dimensional Traveler wrote:

On 2/24/2023 7:13 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

On Thu, 23 Feb 2023 21:04:09 +0000, Geoff May <GeoffMay817@gmail.com>
wrote:

On 23/02/2023 18:30, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

[snipped] The TL;DR is that the
sales tax rates in the US are amazingly complex and if you absolutely, >>>>> postively, without question will need to hire a professional
consultant on the matter.)

Thank you, very much appreciated.

We were fairly sure that net prices are used and then the tax added at >>>> the end. We have an interface to a third party where we tell them what >>>> is being bought and the price and they send back the taxes associated.

I had to work with POS tax software once. That was enough. For
organizations so greedy about getting their fair due, governments sure
do make their rules about collecting it rather cryptic and complex.

The US tax code tends to get used less for collecting the operating
expenses of the government and more an attempt at social engineering.
The results tend to be sub-optimal for either use.

Being in the UK taxes in the US when buying things confuses me because
even though we do have them it's very much hidden from the customer so
the price displayed is what you pay and then it's up to the company to
sort it out.

I think it was possibly in New York when staying in a hotel they had the headline price and then something like three other taxes added on.
What's that all about?

State taxes, county taxes and city taxes. Plus you might have special
district taxes for something like a transit authority that covers
multiple counties so residents in all those counties will pay that.
--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat, 25 Feb 2023 11:06:42 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

Being in the UK taxes in the US when buying things confuses me because
even though we do have them it's very much hidden from the customer so
the price displayed is what you pay and then it's up to the company to
sort it out.

I think it was possibly in New York when staying in a hotel they had the >headline price and then something like three other taxes added on.
What's that all about?

And then the US fascination with 'tipping' rather than paying people a
real wage. Fees upon fees upon fees.

America: it's a strange place. ;-)

Good pizza, though.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2/25/2023 9:17 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

On Sat, 25 Feb 2023 11:06:42 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

Being in the UK taxes in the US when buying things confuses me because
even though we do have them it's very much hidden from the customer so
the price displayed is what you pay and then it's up to the company to
sort it out.

I think it was possibly in New York when staying in a hotel they had the
headline price and then something like three other taxes added on.
What's that all about?

And then the US fascination with 'tipping' rather than paying people a
real wage. Fees upon fees upon fees.

There is a real debate going on here about that. Companies like
"tipping" because it means they don't have to pay employees very much.
But with current economic conditions those dependent on tips for make
ends meet are forced to "push" customers towards giving bigger tips,
which many of the customers can't afford to do for the same reasons the
bigger tips are needed. So there is more discussion now about getting
rid of tips and changing some laws that encourage it almost to the point
of demanding it.

America: it's a strange place. ;-)

Only to you furriners! :P

Good pizza, though.

Of course, we invented it!

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 25/02/2023 17:35, Dimensional Traveler wrote:

And then the US fascination with 'tipping' rather than paying people a
real wage. Fees upon fees upon fees.

There is a real debate going on here about that.  Companies like
"tipping" because it means they don't have to pay employees very much.
But with current economic conditions those dependent on tips for make
ends meet are forced to "push" customers towards giving bigger tips,
which many of the customers can't afford to do for the same reasons the bigger tips are needed.  So there is more discussion now about getting
rid of tips and changing some laws that encourage it almost to the point
of demanding it.

America: it's a strange place. 😉

Only to you furriners!  :P

Tipping in the UK does exist but not to the levels that I've seen in the
US*. For the wage part the UK did change quite a few years ago so that
the likes of restaurants couldn't legally use them as part of the minium
wage requirements. Quite a few companies were also 'shamed' into no
longer having the practice that tips either go wholly to the restaurant
or the restaurant charges its staff an 'admin' fee** to process the
tips. The service charge has also pretty much disappeared as people
wised up to shouldn't that be included in the price and more importantly however it was presented it was entirely optional so people started
asking for it to be taken off.

One of the oddities though, you don't tip in pubs but then we also don't
have table service in pubs so you want a drink, you go to the bar and
order it. I've seen a few tourists caught out by that as they sit
patiently at their table waiting to be served.

*I did once have an interesting encounter with a taxi driver in Dallas
who seemed to think he was within his rights to keep my change as a tip.
I did kindly explain that's not how it works, at least to me, hence
you'll get no tip at all.

**As someone rightly pointed out can you imagine if a company required
you to pay an admin fee to be paid your wages.

Good pizza, though.

Of course, we invented it!

I thought that the US didn't kinda invent what I think of as an American
style pizza with a much thicker crust than what you may have traditional expected. Oh and I'd be more than happy if anyone could explain why
Domino's pizza is so popular. We had it once and had a slice each before
we binned the rest of it. The box probably tasted nicer.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 26/02/2023 11:48, JAB wrote:

[snipped]

I thought that the US didn't kinda invent what I think of as an American style pizza with a much thicker crust than what you may have traditional expected. Oh and I'd be more than happy if anyone could explain why
Domino's pizza is so popular. We had it once and had a slice each before
we binned the rest of it. The box probably tasted nicer.

I have found that it depends entirely on the individual Domino's and
also whether you pick up or deliver.

One place I used to live had terrible pizzas (both delivered and picked
up). The local Domino's are good if you pick up but delivery is average.

I suspect the main difference is that when I pick up, I go straight home
and we start eating where as delivery wanders around the country side
trying to find my house.

Cheers

Geoff

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 26/02/2023 12:55, Geoff May wrote:

On 26/02/2023 11:48, JAB wrote:

[snipped]

I thought that the US didn't kinda invent what I think of as an
American style pizza with a much thicker crust than what you may have
traditional expected. Oh and I'd be more than happy if anyone could
explain why Domino's pizza is so popular. We had it once and had a
slice each before we binned the rest of it. The box probably tasted
nicer.

I have found that it depends entirely on the individual Domino's and
also whether you pick up or deliver.

One place I used to live had terrible pizzas (both delivered and picked
up). The local Domino's are good if you pick up but delivery is average.

I suspect the main difference is that when I pick up, I go straight home
and we start eating where as delivery wanders around the country side
trying to find my house.

We could have been unlucky and I'm also not sure quite how Domino's
structure effects the quality controls of what it sells. To be honest
though I'm not really a big fan of pizza and we have an M&S about five
minutes away which actually does the type of pizza I'd actually eat and
is much cheaper.

The other one I don't understand is Subway, they are just not nice and
it's a place I'd have to be very desperate to go to. The fast food chain
I do actually like is KFC. Completely unhealthy but boy does it taste
nice. I have made my own oven cooked version of it but who does like the
taste of fried food!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)