On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 17:17:34 -0800, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
On 12/8/2022 4:49 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
...
(Side note: I still use WinAmp v5.6. I like its interface, and didja
know it can play tracker files too? What's not to love?)
Have you tried WACUP, that's based on v5.666 b3516, yet? It has fixes
and updates. And yes, it can still do tracker files. Even MIDIs
(remember those?).
I'm aware of WACUP but don't really see the point of it (at least for
my use), since the original WinAmp does everything I want. Presumably
WACUP can do streaming better, but since all I do is play MP3s from a
local network, that's not really an issue for me.
As to MIDIS, have the files, ran the website, and still listen to them
(most often on TiMIDIty, because I'm an unabashed Gravis Ultrasound
fan ;-). Do I remember MIDI? I'm usually the one people ask 'please,
please, PLEASE stop talking about MIDI!' ;-) >
Half the reason I adore DOS games is because MIDI was such a common
music format. Sierra games were some of the best in that regard. >
Look, now you've gone and got me started...
On 12/9/2022 9:04 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 17:17:34 -0800, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
Have you tried WACUP, that's based on v5.666 b3516, yet? It has fixes
and updates. And yes, it can still do tracker files. Even MIDIs
(remember those?).
I'm aware of WACUP but don't really see the point of it (at least for
my use), since the original WinAmp does everything I want. Presumably
WACUP can do streaming better, but since all I do is play MP3s from a
local network, that's not really an issue for me.
For one, it has a better tracker file plugin. They sound way better. Not
good as old ModPlug Player (remember that?).
As to MIDIS, have the files, ran the website, and still listen to them
(most often on TiMIDIty, because I'm an unabashed Gravis Ultrasound
fan ;-). Do I remember MIDI? I'm usually the one people ask 'please,
please, PLEASE stop talking about MIDI!' ;-) >
Half the reason I adore DOS games is because MIDI was such a common
music format. Sierra games were some of the best in that regard. >
Look, now you've gone and got me started...
Look at old X-Wings, TIE Fighters, etc. for DOS! Real-time music changes
when you play! It was amazing back then even if it was crappy FM MIDI
with tiny speakers! IIRC, I played them with the original Creative Labs' >Sound Blaster v1.0 card that I bought from my local Egghead Software
(RIP -- miss that place when I was young). I never had a GUS card. I
almost bought one, but ended up with a SB16 IIRC. I did listen to DOOM
1's GUS MIDI soundtracks in my college dorm's neighbor's PC (DOS) who
does music. OMG! The chorus track in E1 M8 (boss level)! Speaking of
DOOM 1, it will turn 29 yrs. old tomorrow. Next year will be 30! OMG
again! I wonder if Bethesda and id Software will do give aways like it
did for Quake 1 (and then 2 and 3 when enough people voted or something
-- forgot it was -- I got all even though I have those games already on
their client and then migrated to Steam)!
"Look, now you've gone and got me started..." --Spalls. ;)
If I had to be completely honest, the GUS wasn't so great. Its
somewhat shoddy Soundblaster compatibility limited it somewhat, and it
was quickly superceded by cards with better MIDI capabilities. Still,
it was great for playing tracker files, and its use of on-the-fly
swappable disk-based patches allowed some very impressive sound. But
getting it to shine was often more effort than it was worth. Still,
the GUS rendition of the Doom soundtrack has always been the
'official' rendition for me, with neither the brassier, retro-tinged
FM soundtrack of OPL3 cards or the (arguably) more realistic music
coming from SoundCanvas or AWE32 quite matching it.
But, like I said, I'm an unabashed fan of the hardware so take my
opinion for what it's worth. ;-)
"Look, now you've gone and got me started..." --Spalls. ;)
"I warned ye! Didnae I warn ye? Big nasty MIDI. Look at all the text!
That's no ordinary poster... 'tis the most fannish GUS lover you've
ever set eyes on! But oh no no, you knew better, didn't you?. No, it's
just an ordinary nerd, isn't it? Well, don't say I didn't tell you."
For some reason, I got a Turtle Beach Rio daughtercard for my SB16, and
that is the definitive MIDI wavetable for me. It was made of awesome.
It was amazing what they did with 2MB.
On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 10:57:42 -0800, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
On 12/9/2022 9:04 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 17:17:34 -0800, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:
Have you tried WACUP, that's based on v5.666 b3516, yet? It has fixes
and updates. And yes, it can still do tracker files. Even MIDIs
(remember those?).
I'm aware of WACUP but don't really see the point of it (at least for
my use), since the original WinAmp does everything I want. Presumably
WACUP can do streaming better, but since all I do is play MP3s from a
local network, that's not really an issue for me.
For one, it has a better tracker file plugin. They sound way better. Not >>good as old ModPlug Player (remember that?).
Yup. In fact, it remains my default tracker player since it too works
well in modern versions of Windows. But sometimes I mix'n'match files
and then WinAmp tracker ability is nice to have.
As to MIDIS, have the files, ran the website, and still listen to them
(most often on TiMIDIty, because I'm an unabashed Gravis Ultrasound
fan ;-). Do I remember MIDI? I'm usually the one people ask 'please,
please, PLEASE stop talking about MIDI!' ;-) >
Half the reason I adore DOS games is because MIDI was such a common
music format. Sierra games were some of the best in that regard. >
Look, now you've gone and got me started...
Look at old X-Wings, TIE Fighters, etc. for DOS! Real-time music changes >>when you play! It was amazing back then even if it was crappy FM MIDI
with tiny speakers! IIRC, I played them with the original Creative Labs' >>Sound Blaster v1.0 card that I bought from my local Egghead Software
(RIP -- miss that place when I was young). I never had a GUS card. I
almost bought one, but ended up with a SB16 IIRC. I did listen to DOOM
1's GUS MIDI soundtracks in my college dorm's neighbor's PC (DOS) who
does music. OMG! The chorus track in E1 M8 (boss level)! Speaking of
DOOM 1, it will turn 29 yrs. old tomorrow. Next year will be 30! OMG
again! I wonder if Bethesda and id Software will do give aways like it
did for Quake 1 (and then 2 and 3 when enough people voted or something
-- forgot it was -- I got all even though I have those games already on >>their client and then migrated to Steam)!
If I had to be completely honest, the GUS wasn't so great. Its
somewhat shoddy Soundblaster compatibility limited it somewhat, and it
was quickly superceded by cards with better MIDI capabilities. Still,
it was great for playing tracker files, and its use of on-the-fly
swappable disk-based patches allowed some very impressive sound. But
getting it to shine was often more effort than it was worth. Still,
the GUS rendition of the Doom soundtrack has always been the
'official' rendition for me, with neither the brassier, retro-tinged
FM soundtrack of OPL3 cards or the (arguably) more realistic music
coming from SoundCanvas or AWE32 quite matching it.
But, like I said, I'm an unabashed fan of the hardware so take my
opinion for what it's worth. ;-)
"Look, now you've gone and got me started..." --Spalls. ;)
"I warned ye! Didnae I warn ye? Big nasty MIDI. Look at all the text!
That's no ordinary poster... 'tis the most fannish GUS lover you've
ever set eyes on! But oh no no, you knew better, didn't you?. No, it's
just an ordinary nerd, isn't it? Well, don't say I didn't tell you."
On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 4:49:35 PM UTC-8, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 13:13:20 -0800, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
On 12/8/2022 1:01 PM, Zaghadka wrote:
WinAmp really whipped the llama's ass, too.
WinAmp still lives too with new features (e.g., NFT -- ew) and updates.
I prefer its old WACUP with better updates and fixes: https://getwacup.com. >> (now you gone done it!)
Did somebody mention NFTs? ;-)
Oh, so much NFT news to talk about. This being a gaming newsgroup and
not an NFTs or scams newsgroup, I wasn't going to talk about any of
that, but seeing as Ant brought it up first, I guess it's okay, right?
Right?
Hey, where are you all going? We're talking NFTs! Who doesn't wanna
talk NFTs!
EN EFF TEEEEEES!!!!!!!
I'll see myself out.
(Side note: I still use WinAmp v5.6. I like its interface, and didja
know it can play tracker files too? What's not to love?)
I use XMplayer when I want to play my old songs on PC, which I think can
play trackers too. It plays .mods for sure.
My wife got the apple sub so I've downloaded a lot of songs with that
to my phone, though I usually listen to podcasts on my phone vs.
music.
On 12/9/2022 7:07 PM, Justisaur wrote:
On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 4:49:35 PM UTC-8, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 13:13:20 -0800, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
On 12/8/2022 1:01 PM, Zaghadka wrote:(now you gone done it!)
WinAmp really whipped the llama's ass, too.
WinAmp still lives too with new features (e.g., NFT -- ew) and updates. >>> I prefer its old WACUP with better updates and fixes: https://getwacup.com.
Did somebody mention NFTs? ;-)
Oh, so much NFT news to talk about. This being a gaming newsgroup and
not an NFTs or scams newsgroup, I wasn't going to talk about any of
that, but seeing as Ant brought it up first, I guess it's okay, right?
Right?
Hey, where are you all going? We're talking NFTs! Who doesn't wanna
talk NFTs!
EN EFF TEEEEEES!!!!!!!
I'll see myself out.
(Side note: I still use WinAmp v5.6. I like its interface, and didja
know it can play tracker files too? What's not to love?)
I use XMplayer when I want to play my old songs on PC, which I think can play trackers too. It plays .mods for sure.
My wife got the apple sub so I've downloaded a lot of songs with thatIn iPhones, I just use VLC's file sharing to copy from my PCs' iTunes.
to my phone, though I usually listen to podcasts on my phone vs.
music.
It's too bad VLC can't play MIDI files. Only on computers. :( Also, http://zimage.com/~ant/antfarm/files/music/music.html for my favorite
tunes I collected before I discovered MP2s (yep, before MP3), MP3s,
OGGs, etc. ;)
Getting back to this newsgroup's action games theme, do any of you
listen to old action computer games' soundtracks like me? I have old
DOOM 1 & 2, Duke3D, R-Type 1, Golden Axe 1, Air Busters and Aero
Blasters, BF1942, Portal's Still Alive, Cannon Fodder, Prince of Persia
- Sand of Times, Day of Defeat Source's theme, Rastan, etc.
Also, non-action games: Tetris, Command & Conquer, Emperor: Battle for
Dune, No One Lives Forever 2's theme, Lemmings, Christopher Tin - Baba
Yetu (Civilization 4 Opening Menu) [hearing it and others' live in Video
Game Live's concert was awesome!), etc.
On 12/9/2022 1:08 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
But, like I said, I'm an unabashed fan of the hardware so take my
opinion for what it's worth. ;-)
Didn't Future Crew's Second Reality and other PC demos sounded better
with GUS over SB?
Getting back to this newsgroup's action games theme, do any of you
listen to old action computer games' soundtracks like me? I have old
DOOM 1 & 2, Duke3D, R-Type 1, Golden Axe 1, Air Busters and Aero
Blasters, BF1942, Portal's Still Alive, Cannon Fodder, Prince of Persia
- Sand of Times, Day of Defeat Source's theme, Rastan, etc.
I still love my GUS, though. The /primary reason/ I'm building my
"Win95" retro-computer is to give my Gravis Ultrasound Max a new home.
It deserves better than moldering away in the closet.
(I /told/ you not to get me started!)
I still love my GUS, though. The /primary reason/ I'm building my
"Win95" retro-computer is to give my Gravis Ultrasound Max a new home.
It deserves better than moldering away in the closet.
(I /told/ you not to get me started!)
I thought the GUS was a piece of crap. I had trouble getting it to
work in games that did not directly support it and I did not think the
midi was that much better then the FM synthesis of the SoundBlaster to justify keeping it. It still sounded very fake to me. So I returned
it.
I eventually purchased several Roland products to go with the
SoundBlaster card. That is the combination I use to this day for DOS
gaming.
On Sat, 10 Dec 2022 10:31:19 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson ><spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
I still love my GUS, though. The /primary reason/ I'm building my
"Win95" retro-computer is to give my Gravis Ultrasound Max a new home.
It deserves better than moldering away in the closet.
I thought the GUS was a piece of crap. I had trouble getting it to
work in games that did not directly support it and I did not think the
midi was that much better then the FM synthesis of the SoundBlaster to >justify keeping it. It still sounded very fake to me. So I returned
it.
I eventually purchased several Roland products to go with the
SoundBlaster card. That is the combination I use to this day for DOS
gaming.
Nonetheless, when developers targeted the GUS directly, it produced
excellent sound, far superior to anything on its peers of the time
(AdLib, SoundBlaster, Soundblaster Pro, Pro Audio Spectrum), and
fairly competitive with cards that came out after it (Sound Canvas,
AWE32). It had the additional advantage in that its soundbanks were
not as limited as its competitors (Roland cards were limited to what
was in its ROMs, AWE32 patch-sets maxed out at 32MB... and then only
if you spent an arm and a leg upgrading the card) since the ability to
move patches into and out of the GUS's RAM on the fly allowed
impressively large (70+MB) patch-sets. However, the ability to acquire
these patch sets wasn't readily available to most users until long
after the Ultrasound had faded into obscurity. Still, it speaks of the
card's impressive architecture.
My opinion of the GUS is shaped by my experience with the card at the
time. How many games had direct support for the GUS and added patch
sets that made it sound better then what I heard coming out of it?
Well, the killer app for the Gravis Ultrasound was Star Control 2,
which came out at the same time. It used tracker music, so it sounded
more or less the same on all soundcards, but on the GUS playing music
used almost no CPU and mixing and interpolating the 8-bit MOD samples
in 16-bits rather than 8-bit.
I'm not sure how many games had custom patch sets, but native support
for the GUS was pretty commom after that. For games released before
the GUS, a SoundBlaster plus MT-32 was unquestionably your best option,
but GUS was a real contender as games switched to General MIDI tracks.
There was a lot of debate of which General MIDI patch sets were the best, whether for the GUS or other devices, and I don't think there was ever
a consensus on which patch set or which device was the superior choice.
The problem with the GUS wasn't it's patches, it was it's SoundBlaster emulation. Emulating the SoundBlaster's DAC was pretty CPU intensive,
and could cause slow downs, while emulating the SoundBlaster's OPL
based FM synthsis worked pretty flawlessly but worked by the emulator
picking a patch that it tought best match the FM parameters being used.
So if the emulaotr though the game was trying to create a sound like a
flute or a piano, it would play a flute or paino sample.
Personally, I think the FM emulator worked well, substituting a better
paino patch for a crude attempt to make something sound like a piano with
FM synthesis, but unquestionably it wasn't always making subsitutions
that a human would choose. So you were hearing music being played with different instruments that the original composer intended. Sound effects
in particular could come out particularly weird, but most games used
the DAC for these.
The original X-Wing I think was a perfect example of this. I really
liked how the Star Wars soundtrack was rendered by the GUS's FM emulator,
but when a TIE figter streaked passed you, the game would play a swoosh effect on the DAC and there was noticible studdering as it played.
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