So, a link to an interesting video discussing the continued problem of loot-box inspired gambling (and specifically, Valve's role in the
problem). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMmNy11Mn7g
Well, I thought it was interesting, but I enjoy reading about the game industry as much (possibly more at this point) as I do about the games themselves. It's 36 minutes, so it's not too long, although it's
apparently done by a single guy so I can't verify its accuracy.
But it raises some interesting points about the problem of lootboxes
and how they lead to gambling. It's not just that the lootboxes
themselves are, in essence, digital slot machines. Rather, the article
points out that the 'winnings' of these lootboxes can then be traded -
to third-party websites in exchange for further attempts at the
slot-machine. And since this occurs outside of Valve's ecosystem,
there's absolutely no control or moderation. The end result is all the corruption and scumminess you'd expect, and most of it aimed at kids.
I - probably like most people here - was aware of the problem, but
unaware of how big it had grown, with some third-party websites
earning billions of US dollars. And while Valve is not directly
responsible, it enables these websites, partners with them, and
profits from that partnership. Valve frequently claims it is powerless
to stop it, and anyway, there's no direct connection between the two ecosystems, it could easily end it all by simply disabling the API
that allows the websites to access players inventories (thus keeping
items - and money - inside Steam). Yet they don't.
Regardless of Valve's complicity, the video does explain why games
like "Counterstrike:GO" and "Team Fortress 2" perennially remain on
top of the most-active multiplayer games list. I've never understood
those title's continued popularity, and that's because I was judging
their success by the games themselves. But the gameplay is almost
incidental; they remain popular because they are the source of the
lootboxes and the cosmetics that are used as 'chips' on these gambling
sites. It's why people keep buying (and rebuying, if they get banned)
the same game. The fans don't care as much about the mechanics as
using it as a source of money and to get their next gambling-inspired dopamine rush.
It also points out the source of some of Valve's extraordinary wealth;
it isn't just because they act as middlemen and get a cut from the
sale of every game. They get $2.50 every time a lootbox is opened, and
a 5-10% cut out of the sale of every cosmetic (whether it's a digital
hat or skin for a shotgun, or whatever). Valve has money to waste
because it's making bank off of people's (often teen's) gambling
addictions.
Of course, this is a single-sourced viewpoint of the problem, so take
it all with a grain of salt. Still, like I said, I thought it was interesting.
Yeh, it's pretty shitty behaviour from Valve especially as it would seem >quite simple for them to be more proactive in preventing these sites
from functioning. It also certainly feels that they are skirting the
grey areas of the law in regards to gambling as in the UK* and other >countries the sticking point of whether it's gambling is that you can't
'cash out' on the contents of a lootbox.
As an aside, I did think I recognised the presenter and then thought oh
I occasional watch them for their boardgame reviews.
*Interesting enough we had a government select committee look into the >lootboxes (sorry surprise mechanics) issue for two years and their >recommendation was that they had enough of the elements of gambling that
the law should be changed to cover them as such. Our government's
response, we need to go back to the gaming companies to see what they
think.
On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 11:17:31 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
Yeh, it's pretty shitty behaviour from Valve especially as it would seem
quite simple for them to be more proactive in preventing these sites
from functioning. It also certainly feels that they are skirting the
grey areas of the law in regards to gambling as in the UK* and other
countries the sticking point of whether it's gambling is that you can't
'cash out' on the contents of a lootbox.
As an aside, I did think I recognised the presenter and then thought oh
I occasional watch them for their boardgame reviews.
His video seemed quite professional and well researched, but I wasn't familiar with him, and it's always wiser to take news you hear from
the Internet with a grain of salt.
On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 11:17:31 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
Yeh, it's pretty shitty behaviour from Valve especially as it would seem
quite simple for them to be more proactive in preventing these sites
from functioning. It also certainly feels that they are skirting the
grey areas of the law in regards to gambling as in the UK* and other
countries the sticking point of whether it's gambling is that you can't
'cash out' on the contents of a lootbox.
As an aside, I did think I recognised the presenter and then thought oh
I occasional watch them for their boardgame reviews.
His video seemed quite professional and well researched, but I wasn't familiar with him, and it's always wiser to take news you hear from
the Internet with a grain of salt. I don't doubt any of his stated
facts, but can't attest to his conclusions. That's not to say he's
being inaccurate, just that I can't vouch for the news. Such is the
world we live in today.
*Interesting enough we had a government select committee look into the
lootboxes (sorry surprise mechanics) issue for two years and their
recommendation was that they had enough of the elements of gambling that
the law should be changed to cover them as such. Our government's
response, we need to go back to the gaming companies to see what they
think.
The topic comes up every now and again but I don't think most people
are aware of how big the industry has become. I mean, when I hear
lootboxes equated to gambling, I think 'sure', because the randomness
of the lootbox is akin to a slot-machine. But I was awestruck at how
much further the industry has grown, where the winnings from those
lootboxes are then used as chips in third-party websites that both
purposely distance themselves from cash (to make it easier to lose
without feeling you're actually losing your shirt), and how they use a
format designed to be attractive to teens
(not that this should entirely be a "think about the children!" issue,
but these sites are focusing on them as their primary audience)
It's beyond "a sorta gambling mechanic built into games" and has
become an out-and-out mechanic that just happens to use game cosmetics
as the chips for their gambling machines that - for a variety of
reasons - is completely unregulated. So while I've little sympathy for
the lawmakers, I do have some understanding for their slowness to
respond. Aside from the usual "old people don't understand video
games" (or "bureaucrats don't understand), things are changing quite
quickly. I'd like to believe I have at least a little understanding of
the industry, but even I was taken aback by its scale. But perhaps I'm
just out of touch.
Of course, Valve isn't the only one to benefit from this - I'm sure EA
has similar problems - so arguably it's unfair to 'pick' on them
alone. Still, Valve does benefit to some degree from its reputation as
being 'for the gamer' more than its competitors, so this transparency
into this aspect of their business was welcome.
The internet is a great resource but it's also a complete minefield when
it comes to misinformation and the one I really don't like opinion
dressed up as news. Generally I employ the smell test of does what's
being said sound plausible. So to take the video you linked to, I think
the hard facts are probably correct but some of the conclusions - not so
sure about that.
The real problem I have though is the amount of people who seem to take
their news source from something that read on Facebook and 'the truth'
is based more on someone wanting it to be true than whether it is
actually true.
The impression I get in part is that the people who actually have the
power to change the law are relatively out of touch with what goes in
some games. Everyone knows that gambling can be bad so needs to be
regulated but gambling is going down the bookies to bet on a horse not
what goes on in games, there can't be gambling can there as they are
just games?
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