I found this thread on a late night search for "Is John Carmack related to Stephen King?", because the two share some striking similarities. It has proved a fascinating read!

As to those who have said that the U.S. Military / DoD have approached Carmack to work with them for his inventions, I do not belive that is quite the case; I have good intel that John Carmack actually stole what became DOOM from the U.S. Navy, who had
created the base engine for training purposes. Carmack somehow got a copy of the training software, modified it to be a demon shooter rather than an enemies of the US shooter, and sold it as his own invention. That is not to say that he is not brilliant,
he absolutely is and was to do what he did from then to now. The military ultimately made the call to not pursue him legally, because they reasoned that the more young folk they could get to practice aiming, shooting, and killing, the better qualified
candidates they would have for the military in general.

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On Fri, 2 Sep 2022 22:31:04 -0700 (PDT), Daniel Ferguson
<dedwardf9@gmail.com> wrote:

I found this thread on a late night search for "Is John Carmack related to Stephen King?", because the two share some striking similarities. It has proved a fascinating read!

As to those who have said that the U.S. Military / DoD have approached Carmack to work with them for his inventions, I do not belive that is quite the case; I have good intel that John Carmack actually stole what became DOOM from the U.S. Navy, who had

created the base engine for training purposes. Carmack somehow got a copy of the training software, modified it to be a demon shooter rather than an enemies of the US shooter, and sold it as his own invention. That is not to say that he is not brilliant,
he absolutely is and was to do what he did from then to now. The military ultimately made the call to not pursue him legally, because they reasoned that the more young folk they could get to practice aiming, shooting, and killing, the better qualified
candidates they would have for the military in general.


The idea of 3D technology innovation beginning at the DoD and
trickling down into private sector is hilarious. It always works the
other way around.

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On Sat, 03 Sep 2022 06:04:13 -0400, Rin Stowleigh
<rstowleigh@x-nospam-x.com> wrote:

On Fri, 2 Sep 2022 22:31:04 -0700 (PDT), Daniel Ferguson ><dedwardf9@gmail.com> wrote:

I found this thread on a late night search for "Is John Carmack related to Stephen King?", because the two share some striking similarities. It has proved a fascinating read!

As to those who have said that the U.S. Military / DoD have approached Carmack to work with them for his inventions, I do not belive that is quite the case; I have good intel that John Carmack actually stole what became DOOM from the U.S. Navy, who had

created the base engine for training purposes. Carmack somehow got a copy of the training software, modified it to be a demon shooter rather than an enemies of the US shooter, and sold it as his own invention. That is not to say that he is not brilliant,
he absolutely is and was to do what he did from then to now. The military ultimately made the call to not pursue him legally, because they reasoned that the more young folk they could get to practice aiming, shooting, and killing, the better qualified
candidates they would have for the military in general.

The idea of 3D technology innovation beginning at the DoD and
trickling down into private sector is hilarious. It always works the
other way around.

Especially since - while Carmack's implementation in Doom was elegant
- it wasn't particularly novel. It owed a lot to his earlier efforts (Wolfenstein 3D in particular) and there were other similar engines
available at the time. Carmack's engine's main feature was its speed,
not its capabilities.* But just as it wasn't super-tech stolen from
military archives, neither did it appear Athena-like from Carmack's
head. Doom's technology had plenty of antecedents.

The US military actually licensed the Doom engine /from/ Id (something
they'd hardly need to do if they already had the tech on hand) to
create "Marine Doom", although it never got any widespread use and was
largely used to test-bed ideas about how computer simulations could be
used to train its soldier (largely in learning how to work together
towards a common goal). It's interesting to see how this idea has
since morphed into "the gub'ment created Doom, y'all" conspiracy
posted above.

Still, it's a better troll than we've seen in years so I give it 2.5
bridges (out of 4) on the trollometer. It doesn't fool anyone but it
was an entertaining rant; a good first attempt. ;-)



==================
* inevitably, someone is going to make the comparison to
Origin/Looking Glass' "Ultima Underworld" engine so it might as well
be me ;-)

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On Saturday, September 3, 2022 at 3:04:19 AM UTC-7, Rin Stowleigh wrote:

On Fri, 2 Sep 2022 22:31:04 -0700 (PDT), Daniel Ferguson
<dedw...@gmail.com> wrote:

I found this thread on a late night search for "Is John Carmack related to Stephen King?", because the two share some striking similarities. It has proved a fascinating read!

As to those who have said that the U.S. Military / DoD have approached Carmack to work with them for his inventions, I do not belive that is quite the case; I have good intel that John Carmack actually stole what became DOOM from the U.S. Navy, who

had created the base engine for training purposes. Carmack somehow got a copy of the training software, modified it to be a demon shooter rather than an enemies of the US shooter, and sold it as his own invention. That is not to say that he is not
brilliant, he absolutely is and was to do what he did from then to now. The military ultimately made the call to not pursue him legally, because they reasoned that the more young folk they could get to practice aiming, shooting, and killing, the better
qualified candidates they would have for the military in general.

The idea of 3D technology innovation beginning at the DoD and
trickling down into private sector is hilarious. It always works the
other way around.

I'm not sure how you could get better at shooting from DOOM either, the original had no up & down aiming. Having never shot a gun, I don't know
that both axis aiming translates either. All I can say for sure, having practice with bows, is that no bow in a fantasy game I've ever played translates to making one better at shooting one in real life, let alone
comes close to replicating it.

- Justisaur

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On Sat, 3 Sep 2022 09:11:01 -0700 (PDT), Justisaur
<justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm not sure how you could get better at shooting from DOOM either, the >original had no up & down aiming. Having never shot a gun, I don't know
that both axis aiming translates either. All I can say for sure, having >practice with bows, is that no bow in a fantasy game I've ever played >translates to making one better at shooting one in real life, let alone
comes close to replicating it.

"Marine Doom" wasn't about teaching its soldiers to shoot so much as team-building (I mean, how could it be; firing a real gun is an
entirely different experience than it is in a video game). Instead, it
was - from what I recall - intended to foster ideas like unit
cohesion, move-n-cover tactics, what to do when the sergeants buys it,
working together as a group, etc.

But the whole thing was never widely used. From what I remember, it
wasn't seen as being any more effective than existing training
techniques which had the added benefit of putting the soldiers in a
more realistic setting than staring at a computer screen and wiggling
a mouse. So while "Marine Doom" got a lot of press, it was never
really part of the US Military training regime.

(But I'm saying this all based on thirty-year old memories so if I'm
wrong, feel free to correct me. Pretty much all of the google results
about the topic only talk about the program's existance, and not its
actual utility or fate so I'd love to read some documented specifics).

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Am 03.09.22 um 07:31 schrieb Daniel Ferguson:

As to those who have said that the U.S. Military / DoD have approached Carmack to work with them for his inventions, I do not belive that is quite the case; I have good intel that John Carmack actually stole what became DOOM from the U.S. Navy, who had

created the base engine for training purposes. Carmack somehow got a copy of the training software, modified it to be a demon shooter rather than an enemies of the US shooter, and sold it as his own invention. That is not to say that he is not brilliant,
he absolutely is and was to do what he did from then to now. The military ultimately made the call to not pursue him legally, because they reasoned that the more young folk they could get to practice aiming, shooting, and killing, the better qualified
candidates they would have for the military in general.
I dont believe this story, if you follow the games they produced up to
Doom, Doom just another step on what they had been doing for years at
that point. Enginewise Looking Glass was way ahead of them.

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