I know, I'm just shouting into the wind here... but still, I wish
they'd find some other excuse; that these murders are caused by
global warming, or too much pollution in the waters, or a lack of
adequate mental health care... whatever. Just leave video games out of
it. I mean, really, what have they done to you that they deserve such
abuse?
I know, I'm just shouting into the wind here... but still, I wish
they'd find some other excuse; that these murders are caused by
global warming, or too much pollution in the waters, or a lack of
adequate mental health care... whatever. Just leave video games out of
it. I mean, really, what have they done to you that they deserve such
abuse?
America has a gun problem. No surprise; there's not a week that goes
by now - often not even a day - that there isn't a report of
yet-another mass shooting in that country. It's a tragedy that
Americans seem reluctant to face up to, much less do anything about.
Instead, it's the usual nonsense gets trotted out again and again...
like that all these mass shootings are because of violent video games.
Yup, that old chestnut is being dragged out again*. I mean, given the
source I shouldn't be surprised, but still. It's such a tired and
frequently disproven theory, not least of which is that all the rest
of the world is playing the same games as Americans, and yet aren't
suffering the same effects. Although it is currently Fox pushing this
theory, it isn't strictly right-wing nonsense; it's trotted out by
liberals too (albeit not quite as often, as American conservatives
seemingly fetishize gun ownership and need a scapegoat anytime
anything suggests the there being more guns than people in America is anything but admirable). But even outside that beleagured nation,
video games are often cited for acts of extreme violence.
Still, I don't really want to get into USian politics (that's a mess I suspect even most Americans wish they could escape). I just wish the
damn "it's all video games' fault" excuse - regardless of who uses it
or in which country - finally dies. It's so pointlessly stupid, like insisting that the sun is made of oatmeal, and yet it keeps being
dredged up whenever some asshole with a grievance and access to a
deadly weapon does something stupid. It says more about the people
making the excuse than anything - that they're out of touch, or are uneducated, or simply hypocritical - and it annoys me to hear it again
and again.
I know, I'm just shouting into the wind here... but still, I wish
they'd find some other excuse; that these murders are caused by
global warming, or too much pollution in the waters, or a lack of
adequate mental health care... whatever. Just leave video games out of
it. I mean, really, what have they done to you that they deserve such
abuse?
[snipped] I just wish theEvery technological advance gets painted with the same brush by the same arseholes who are incapable of original thought. I know these people are arseholes because the only thing that comes out of them is shit but I do
damn "it's all video games' fault" excuse - regardless of who uses it
or in which country - finally dies. [snipped]
On 18/05/2022 01:28, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
I won't get into the politics but yeh people do like their scapegoats
and 'easy' solutions, at least it's not D&D any more.
I've yet to see any credible studies that link violent video games to
actual violence beyond one that did show some link. The problem was it
lasted something like twenty minutes after they finished playing.
On Wed, 18 May 2022 09:24:48 +0100, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
On 18/05/2022 01:28, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
I won't get into the politics but yeh people do like their scapegoats
and 'easy' solutions, at least it's not D&D any more.
Actually, it still is, although its not anywhere near as common. I
STILL occassionally hear parents worry about the Satanic (or otherwise unhealthy) influences of the game.
I've yet to see any credible studies that link violent video games to
actual violence beyond one that did show some link. The problem was it
lasted something like twenty minutes after they finished playing.
Its the adrenalin. Video games can get you pumped up and excited, and
until you calm down, those hormones can affect your decision-making
ability. However, the effect isn't any more telling from video-games
than it is from watching a movie or playing an intense game of {insert
sports game here}.
More studies have shown that there is no correlation between
video-game play and violence (some suggest there might be a positive
benefit with the games acting as a catharsis, but the evidence is
quite shaky). The most important fact is that - even as our video
games have gotten more and more graphically violent - actual criminal violence has decreased dramatically (by more than half in the last 30
years). Even in America - where a tiny group of misguided individuals
daily perform their attrocities on a daily schedule - violent crime is incredibly low and won't affect most people's lives.
Which is why blaming games just strikes me as so stupid; it's likepeople still blaming D&D, or rock & roll, or TV, or comic books, or
dancing, or macaroni hats. It's so blatantly ridiculous that its
almost painful to hear it get dredged up again and again. If Americans
want to scapegoat something for their problems, well... it's not the
best solution, but it's understandable. It's human; every person of
every nation does something similar. Just don't use such a moronic,
easily disproven, and out-of-touch excuse as blaming video games. Is
that too much to ask? ;-)
On 18/05/2022 01:28, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
[snipped] I just wish theEvery technological advance gets painted with the same brush by the same arseholes who are incapable of original thought. I know these people are arseholes because the only thing that comes out of them is shit but I do
damn "it's all video games' fault" excuse - regardless of who uses it
or in which country - finally dies. [snipped]
wish they would not try spreading it all over the place.
When I was younger, TV would cause all children to be fat and unhealthy.
When I got a little older, video games would cause all children to be
fat and unhealthy.
When I got old enough to consider having kids, computer games would
cause all children to be fat and unhealthy.
I'm now old enough to realise that I made a good decision in not having children but now the problem is that smart phones will cause all
children to be fat and unhealthy.
And, in all above instances, there were the dark mumblings about adverse influences.
The main problems I have with these irrational outbursts is not their inaccuracy but that these people making these statements appear to think
that I and everyone else using this technology should care about someone else's children. Isn't that the parents' job?
On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 9:56:46 AM UTC-7, Geoff May wrote:
On 18/05/2022 01:28, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
[snipped] I just wish theEvery technological advance gets painted with the same brush by the same
damn "it's all video games' fault" excuse - regardless of who uses it
or in which country - finally dies. [snipped]
arseholes who are incapable of original thought. I know these people are
arseholes because the only thing that comes out of them is shit but I do
wish they would not try spreading it all over the place.
When I was younger, TV would cause all children to be fat and unhealthy.
When I got a little older, video games would cause all children to be
fat and unhealthy.
When I got old enough to consider having kids, computer games would
cause all children to be fat and unhealthy.
I'm now old enough to realise that I made a good decision in not having
children but now the problem is that smart phones will cause all
children to be fat and unhealthy.
And, in all above instances, there were the dark mumblings about adverse
influences.
The main problems I have with these irrational outbursts is not their
inaccuracy but that these people making these statements appear to think
that I and everyone else using this technology should care about someone
else's children. Isn't that the parents' job?
At least there's a couple positive studies.
https://www.studyfinds.org/video-games-child-intelligence/ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-surgery-games/surgeons-who-play-video-games-more-skilled-study-idUSN2J30397820070219
The short - good for fine motor skills and IQ.
And studies regarding D&D showed it improved social skills and working together. Back In The Day a grade school across the street from the
local community college asked some of the college students who played
D&D to run/oversee D&D games for their kids. :D
And studies regarding D&D showed it improved social skills and working together. Back In The Day a grade school across the street from the
local community college asked some of the college students who played
D&D to run/oversee D&D games for their kids. :D
On 19/05/2022 15:42, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
And studies regarding D&D showed it improved social skills and working
together. Back In The Day a grade school across the street from the
local community college asked some of the college students who played
D&D to run/oversee D&D games for their kids. :D
I can see that but I did once play in an AD&D group where cooperation
was considered a dirty word and it was considered quite ok to attack
another character if they didn't give you an item of theirs you wanted.
It also didn't help that we took turns in being the DM and most of the
group approached that as a how can I kill the players scenario
especially if they'd been 'wronged' in a previous session.
The final straw that really killed the group (for me anyway) was that
because of our age a lot of the social pecking order between the various players seeped into the group. We had one player in particular who
really just couldn't get his head around the idea that being 'top dog'
in real life doesn't mean that happens at the table.
The positive was that it gave me the incentive to join another group
with an entirely different group of friends.
On 19/05/2022 15:42, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
And studies regarding D&D showed it improved social skills and working
together. Back In The Day a grade school across the street from the
local community college asked some of the college students who played
D&D to run/oversee D&D games for their kids. :D
I can see that but I did once play in an AD&D group where cooperation
was considered a dirty word and it was considered quite ok to attack
another character if they didn't give you an item of theirs you wanted.
It also didn't help that we took turns in being the DM and most of the
group approached that as a how can I kill the players scenario
especially if they'd been 'wronged' in a previous session.
The final straw that really killed the group (for me anyway) was that
because of our age a lot of the social pecking order between the various >players seeped into the group. We had one player in particular who
really just couldn't get his head around the idea that being 'top dog'
in real life doesn't mean that happens at the table.
The positive was that it gave me the incentive to join another group
with an entirely different group of friends.
On 5/22/2022 3:20 AM, JAB wrote:
On 19/05/2022 15:42, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
And studies regarding D&D showed it improved social skills and
working together. Back In The Day a grade school across the street
from the local community college asked some of the college students
who played D&D to run/oversee D&D games for their kids. :D
I can see that but I did once play in an AD&D group where cooperation
was considered a dirty word and it was considered quite ok to attack
another character if they didn't give you an item of theirs you
wanted. It also didn't help that we took turns in being the DM and
most of the group approached that as a how can I kill the players
scenario especially if they'd been 'wronged' in a previous session.
The final straw that really killed the group (for me anyway) was that
because of our age a lot of the social pecking order between the
various players seeped into the group. We had one player in particular
who really just couldn't get his head around the idea that being 'top
dog' in real life doesn't mean that happens at the table.
The positive was that it gave me the incentive to join another group
with an entirely different group of friends.
I get that. In the group I did most of my gaming with there was one who thought his job as GM was to kill the player characters. He was also
the one who complained the most when his latest "invincible" character
got taken down a peg by reality. (One example of that, he once made a
hound master character in a GURPS game. Then got pissed off when a NPC
hit one of his dogs the first time he sent them into battle because "no
one can hit a charging dog!" I was the GM in that game and the NPC
rolled effectively a critical hit, which he saw me roll.)
On Sun, 22 May 2022 11:20:27 +0100, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
On 19/05/2022 15:42, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
And studies regarding D&D showed it improved social skills and working
together. Back In The Day a grade school across the street from the
local community college asked some of the college students who played
D&D to run/oversee D&D games for their kids. :D
I can see that but I did once play in an AD&D group where cooperation
was considered a dirty word and it was considered quite ok to attack
another character if they didn't give you an item of theirs you wanted.
It also didn't help that we took turns in being the DM and most of the
group approached that as a how can I kill the players scenario
especially if they'd been 'wronged' in a previous session.
The final straw that really killed the group (for me anyway) was that
because of our age a lot of the social pecking order between the various
players seeped into the group. We had one player in particular who
really just couldn't get his head around the idea that being 'top dog'
in real life doesn't mean that happens at the table.
The positive was that it gave me the incentive to join another group
with an entirely different group of friends.
If there is, arguably, a 'wrong way' to play an pen-n-paper RPG, I
think you just described it. ;-)
Still, its not /that/ uncommon to see games like this, though usually
this happens amongst new or very young players. The latter of course
have the excuse of a lack of maturity (not to mention an overdose of hormones) that leads them towards rebelliousness and experimentation.
Many new players also have a hard time comprehending a 'game' where
the outcome isn't for one person to win and all the others to lose.
Usually such behavior can be worked around if there are enough
conscientious players in the group (and especially the GM) who can
provide a good example to the rest; usually there's just one really disruptive player, and the others are just following his (or her)
example. You can work these 'bad apples' back into the campaign (often
their behavior is a result of low self-esteem, the idea that nobody
would listen to their ideas if they weren't outrageous and disruptive,
but - especially for younger players and people who use the game
primarily as entertainment and not as a form of social rehabilitation
- it's often more trouble than it is worth.
The best option is, as you did, often to just walk away. Fortunately
(at least in my experience) there are more people interested in
fostering a good time for all than being jerks... it's just that the
jerks are so LOUD its often hard to remember that.
On 22/05/2022 17:19, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
On Sun, 22 May 2022 11:20:27 +0100, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
On 19/05/2022 15:42, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
And studies regarding D&D showed it improved social skills and working >>>> together. Back In The Day a grade school across the street from the
local community college asked some of the college students who played
D&D to run/oversee D&D games for their kids. :D
I can see that but I did once play in an AD&D group where cooperation
was considered a dirty word and it was considered quite ok to attack
another character if they didn't give you an item of theirs you wanted.
It also didn't help that we took turns in being the DM and most of the
group approached that as a how can I kill the players scenario
especially if they'd been 'wronged' in a previous session.
The final straw that really killed the group (for me anyway) was that
because of our age a lot of the social pecking order between the various >>> players seeped into the group. We had one player in particular who
really just couldn't get his head around the idea that being 'top dog'
in real life doesn't mean that happens at the table.
The positive was that it gave me the incentive to join another group
with an entirely different group of friends.
If there is, arguably, a 'wrong way' to play an pen-n-paper RPG, I
think you just described it. ;-)
Still, its not /that/ uncommon to see games like this, though usually
this happens amongst new or very young players. The latter of course
have the excuse of a lack of maturity (not to mention an overdose of
hormones) that leads them towards rebelliousness and experimentation.
Many new players also have a hard time comprehending a 'game' where
the outcome isn't for one person to win and all the others to lose.
Usually such behavior can be worked around if there are enough
conscientious players in the group (and especially the GM) who can
provide a good example to the rest; usually there's just one really
disruptive player, and the others are just following his (or her)
example. You can work these 'bad apples' back into the campaign (often
their behavior is a result of low self-esteem, the idea that nobody
would listen to their ideas if they weren't outrageous and disruptive,
but - especially for younger players and people who use the game
primarily as entertainment and not as a form of social rehabilitation
- it's often more trouble than it is worth.
The best option is, as you did, often to just walk away. Fortunately
(at least in my experience) there are more people interested in
fostering a good time for all than being jerks... it's just that the
jerks are so LOUD its often hard to remember that.
Whenever I've tried to explain what a TT RPG is too my friends they two >biggest hurdles I see are there is no winning, or indeed losing, in the
same way there is with a traditional game. The second is that you're
trying to play a role and sometimes that means you will do things that
you personally know aren't a good idea.
Admittedly for the latter it's perfectly possible to enjoy the game
playing an 'extension' of yourself but I'm the type of player who really >likes to throw themselves into the character which is one reason I
choose one not only that I'd like to play but I think I can play.
On Mon, 23 May 2022 10:00:24 +0100, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
On 22/05/2022 17:19, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
On Sun, 22 May 2022 11:20:27 +0100, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
On 19/05/2022 15:42, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
And studies regarding D&D showed it improved social skills and working >>>>> together. Back In The Day a grade school across the street from the >>>>> local community college asked some of the college students who played >>>>> D&D to run/oversee D&D games for their kids. :D
I can see that but I did once play in an AD&D group where cooperation
was considered a dirty word and it was considered quite ok to attack
another character if they didn't give you an item of theirs you wanted. >>>> It also didn't help that we took turns in being the DM and most of the >>>> group approached that as a how can I kill the players scenario
especially if they'd been 'wronged' in a previous session.
The final straw that really killed the group (for me anyway) was that
because of our age a lot of the social pecking order between the various >>>> players seeped into the group. We had one player in particular who
really just couldn't get his head around the idea that being 'top dog' >>>> in real life doesn't mean that happens at the table.
The positive was that it gave me the incentive to join another group
with an entirely different group of friends.
If there is, arguably, a 'wrong way' to play an pen-n-paper RPG, I
think you just described it. ;-)
Still, its not /that/ uncommon to see games like this, though usually
this happens amongst new or very young players. The latter of course
have the excuse of a lack of maturity (not to mention an overdose of
hormones) that leads them towards rebelliousness and experimentation.
Many new players also have a hard time comprehending a 'game' where
the outcome isn't for one person to win and all the others to lose.
Usually such behavior can be worked around if there are enough
conscientious players in the group (and especially the GM) who can
provide a good example to the rest; usually there's just one really
disruptive player, and the others are just following his (or her)
example. You can work these 'bad apples' back into the campaign (often
their behavior is a result of low self-esteem, the idea that nobody
would listen to their ideas if they weren't outrageous and disruptive,
but - especially for younger players and people who use the game
primarily as entertainment and not as a form of social rehabilitation
- it's often more trouble than it is worth.
The best option is, as you did, often to just walk away. Fortunately
(at least in my experience) there are more people interested in
fostering a good time for all than being jerks... it's just that the
jerks are so LOUD its often hard to remember that.
Whenever I've tried to explain what a TT RPG is too my friends they two
biggest hurdles I see are there is no winning, or indeed losing, in the
same way there is with a traditional game. The second is that you're
trying to play a role and sometimes that means you will do things that
you personally know aren't a good idea.
Admittedly for the latter it's perfectly possible to enjoy the game
playing an 'extension' of yourself but I'm the type of player who really
likes to throw themselves into the character which is one reason I
choose one not only that I'd like to play but I think I can play.
Those are always fun, although - at least in my case - it's always led
to some inconsistencies in behavior, as I bobble between 'what would
/I/ do' and 'what would /PC/ do' modes, often not noticing the switch.
But I've thrown many a GM for a loop by doing something that I - the
player - know is a self-destructive act just because the character
doesn't know it, or has an entirely different opinion on the matter.
;-)
RPG is just 'playing pretend'... with the rules in place to keep any
one player from dominating the experience, and the dice to add some
necessary chaos. At least in my opinion, treating an RPG as a game - something that can be 'won' or with mechanics that can be manipulated
to your benefit - defeats the whole purpose of the experience. But
there are some people who like that sort of thing too, so the tricky
part is finding a group that agrees with your philosophy more than
theirs ;-)
America has a gun problem. No surprise; there's not a week that goes
by now - often not even a day - that there isn't a report of
yet-another mass shooting in that country. It's a tragedy that
Americans seem reluctant to face up to, much less do anything about.
Instead, it's the usual nonsense gets trotted out again and again...
like that all these mass shootings are because of violent video games.
On Tue, 17 May 2022 20:28:07 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
America has a gun problem. No surprise; there's not a week that goes
by now - often not even a day - that there isn't a report of
yet-another mass shooting in that country. It's a tragedy that
Americans seem reluctant to face up to, much less do anything about.
Instead, it's the usual nonsense gets trotted out again and again...
like that all these mass shootings are because of violent video games.
Yay? Another week, another shooting, another twenty people dead... but
this time it isn't ONLY video games that are at fault. It's rap music
too!* Certainly this latest attrocity has nothing to do with the
completely obvious elephant in the room, no sir. "Guns? What do guns
have to do with it? It's the rap music!"
Jesus-fucking-Christ, America, get your head out of your ass already.
For a country that coined the phrase, "think of the children!" you
sure are willing to sacrifice your kids on the altars of Colt and
Remington.
-------------------
* https://boingboing.net/2022/05/25/texas-rep-jackson-says-its-unfortunate-media-blames-shootings-on-guns-when-rap-and-video-games-are-the-culprit-video.html
On 5/25/2022 5:49 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2022 20:28:07 -0400, Spalls HurgensonOh, that's nothing. The Governor of Texas, who slashed some 200 million from the state agency in charge of mental health care in the state,
<spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
America has a gun problem. No surprise; there's not a week that goes
by now - often not even a day - that there isn't a report of
yet-another mass shooting in that country. It's a tragedy that
Americans seem reluctant to face up to, much less do anything about.
Instead, it's the usual nonsense gets trotted out again and again...
like that all these mass shootings are because of violent video games.
Yay? Another week, another shooting, another twenty people dead... but
this time it isn't ONLY video games that are at fault. It's rap music
too!* Certainly this latest attrocity has nothing to do with the
completely obvious elephant in the room, no sir. "Guns? What do guns
have to do with it? It's the rap music!"
Jesus-fucking-Christ, America, get your head out of your ass already.
For a country that coined the phrase, "think of the children!" you
sure are willing to sacrifice your kids on the altars of Colt and
Remington.
-------------------
*
https://boingboing.net/2022/05/25/texas-rep-jackson-says-its-unfortunate-media-blames-shootings-on-guns-when-rap-and-video-games-are-the-culprit-video.html
blamed it on insufficient care for the mentally ill.
O_o
On 26/05/2022 04:21, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
On 5/25/2022 5:49 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2022 20:28:07 -0400, Spalls HurgensonOh, that's nothing. The Governor of Texas, who slashed some 200
<spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
America has a gun problem. No surprise; there's not a week that goes
by now - often not even a day - that there isn't a report of
yet-another mass shooting in that country. It's a tragedy that
Americans seem reluctant to face up to, much less do anything about.
Instead, it's the usual nonsense gets trotted out again and again...
like that all these mass shootings are because of violent video games.
Yay? Another week, another shooting, another twenty people dead... but
this time it isn't ONLY video games that are at fault. It's rap music
too!* Certainly this latest attrocity has nothing to do with the
completely obvious elephant in the room, no sir. "Guns? What do guns
have to do with it? It's the rap music!"
Jesus-fucking-Christ, America, get your head out of your ass already.
For a country that coined the phrase, "think of the children!" you
sure are willing to sacrifice your kids on the altars of Colt and
Remington.
-------------------
*
https://boingboing.net/2022/05/25/texas-rep-jackson-says-its-unfortunate-media-blames-shootings-on-guns-when-rap-and-video-games-are-the-culprit-video.html
million from the state agency in charge of mental health care in the
state, blamed it on insufficient care for the mentally ill.
O_o
It just amazes me how many people there are in the US that regardless of
the problems they have with guns still consider almost any type of
control as an infringement of their civil liberties.
On 5/25/2022 5:49 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
Yay? Another week, another shooting, another twenty people dead... but >>>> this time it isn't ONLY video games that are at fault. It's rap music
too!* Certainly this latest attrocity has nothing to do with the
completely obvious elephant in the room, no sir. "Guns? What do guns
have to do with it? It's the rap music!"
Oh, that's nothing. The Governor of Texas, who slashed some 200
million from the state agency in charge of mental health care in the
state, blamed it on insufficient care for the mentally ill.
It just amazes me how many people there are in the US that regardless of
the problems they have with guns still consider almost any type of
control as an infringement of their civil liberties.
And forget the myth that all American households at the time had a
musket or two. Historical records show that only a small fraction did
and most of those were non-functional display pieces only.
Another argument you will hear is that the population has to be armed so
it can overthrow the government if it goes too far. There's really
nothing I can say to even attempt to explain that.
On Thu, 26 May 2022 08:01:41 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
On 5/25/2022 5:49 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
Yay? Another week, another shooting, another twenty people dead... but >>>>> this time it isn't ONLY video games that are at fault. It's rap music >>>>> too!* Certainly this latest attrocity has nothing to do with the
completely obvious elephant in the room, no sir. "Guns? What do guns >>>>> have to do with it? It's the rap music!"
https://boingboing.net/2022/05/25/texas-rep-jackson-says-its-unfortunate-media-blames-shootings-on-guns-when-rap-and-video-games-are-the-culprit-video.html
Oh, that's nothing. The Governor of Texas, who slashed some 200
million from the state agency in charge of mental health care in the
state, blamed it on insufficient care for the mentally ill.
While the American right wing party is absolutely despicable in their
beliefs (for God's sake, they're now suggesting they arm teachers
rather than take the more obvious solution), the American left wing
party doesn't inspire much confidence either. I particularly "enjoyed"
the American president standing on a podium all but crying, "We need
somebody to do something!", seemingly forgetting he's the one in the
best position to get the ball rolling if he cared for anything but
votes. The poor Americans apparently have a choice between the "I want
your children to die!" party and the "I don't want them to die, but I
won't raise a finger to stop it" party.
It just amazes me how many people there are in the US that regardless of >>> the problems they have with guns still consider almost any type of
control as an infringement of their civil liberties.
And forget the myth that all American households at the time had a
musket or two. Historical records show that only a small fraction did
and most of those were non-functional display pieces only.
And what guns people were usually tools that were used more
responsibly too, and not just deadly toys and security blankets.
Another argument you will hear is that the population has to be armed so
it can overthrow the government if it goes too far. There's really
nothing I can say to even attempt to explain that.
Honestly, I'm a supporter of that idea /in concept/. A government
SHOULD be afraid of its people (and yes, an armed insurrection CAN
destroy a government, even if the one side has only rifles and the
other has tanks because even if the government wins, they're still
killing their citizens and destroying their own infrastructure. Such
actions can bring down governments, especially those that nominally
depend on the consent of the governed). Such action - revolution -
should always be a last resort for the people - because 99 times out
of a 100, after a revolution any 'new' government is going to be far
worse than the one you started with - but I do support the idea of a constitutionally-insured promise that the citizenry cannot be entirely disarmed. It ensures a balance of powers between the governing and the governed that I think is necessary. But neither does that require
making the entire country a free-fire zone that a some Americans
insist upon. Finding the balance between the two extremes is something
beyond my ability, though... and apparently beyond that of Americans
too, who have seemingly given up on the whole matter.
Of course, the sheer number of guns (400 million civilian-owned guns
in a population of 330 million) isn't really the problem in and of
itself. I'm hesitant to simply point my finger at the atrocious state
of medical care in the US, since that stigmatizes the mentally ill as
being dangerous simply because they have an illness.
Instead, I think the violence has a lot more to do with culturally
sponsored attitude: a refusal to take any personal- and civil-responsibilities, a personal laziness resulting in always
seeking the 'easy way out', an impatience for any solution doesn't
have immediate favorable results, a promotion of self-aggrandizement
as an end-goal, a lack of self-reflection and generally poor
problem-solving, and a socially-encouraged attitude towards violence
as the ultimate problem-solver. You can throw in various the racial
tensions and declining finances that plague the country too. These are
the CAUSES of the violence; the guns just make the violence
worse.Taking guns out of the equation won't solve the problems, but it
will limit the extent of the damage they cause and are an obvious and necessary first step. Once you stop (or at least limit) the killing,
then you can work on the underlying causes that push people into such actions. But that means taking guns off the street.
But of course, Americans won't allow this.
(Or rather, a tiny minority of Americans are dead set against the
idea; the majority of Americans SUPPORT gun control laws. But it's
that tiny majority that are holding the rest hostage, and rather than
step up to them, the rest of America prefers to turn a blind eye...
making them complicit in the carnage.)
I know, I know, this topic really doesn't belong in a gaming newsgroup
(not even with some spur-of-the-moment comment blaming video games for
the violence). But it's hard to remain silent watching Americans
killing so many of their kids and then turning a blind eye to the
problem. Maybe by thrusting it in their face rather than politely
ignoring it like they do, they'll finally face up to it rather than
letting it pass until the next mass-murder.
There is a lot to say about what is wrong in the US. And there is a
huge number of us in this country who have not given up or are ignoring
the problem. But here's an example what we are facing in trying to
reign in the violence:
"Stephen Colbert noted that gun control has widespread bipartisan
popularity, with 90% of voters supporting background checks.
“The only thing more popular than background checks is Dolly Parton
riding a corgi bringing you free ice cream,” he cracked, and even
offered up an image:
“And birthday sex,” he added. “With free ice cream.”
Yet, Republican lawmakers are doing everything they can to block any
attempt to restrict firearms, and they’re offering some absurd justifications for doing so in the wake of this week’s mass shooting at
a Texas elementary school.
“We can’t stop bad people from doing bad things,” Texas Attorney General
Ken Paxton said. “They’re going to violate murder laws, they’re not going to follow gun laws, I’ve never understood that argument.”
That left Colbert scratching his head.
“I gotta say: ‘Laws are pointless’ is a bold position for the attorney general,” Colbert said. “I think he just announced ‘The Purge.’”"
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/stephen-colbert-rips-dumbest-possible-080133368.html
On 26/05/2022 21:08, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
There is a lot to say about what is wrong in the US. And there is a
huge number of us in this country who have not given up or are
ignoring the problem. But here's an example what we are facing in
trying to reign in the violence:
"Stephen Colbert noted that gun control has widespread bipartisan
popularity, with 90% of voters supporting background checks.
“The only thing more popular than background checks is Dolly Parton
riding a corgi bringing you free ice cream,” he cracked, and even
offered up an image:
“And birthday sex,” he added. “With free ice cream.”
Yet, Republican lawmakers are doing everything they can to block any
attempt to restrict firearms, and they’re offering some absurd
justifications for doing so in the wake of this week’s mass shooting
at a Texas elementary school.
“We can’t stop bad people from doing bad things,” Texas Attorney
General Ken Paxton said. “They’re going to violate murder laws,
they’re not going to follow gun laws, I’ve never understood that
argument.”
That left Colbert scratching his head.
“I gotta say: ‘Laws are pointless’ is a bold position for the attorney >> general,” Colbert said. “I think he just announced ‘The Purge.’”" >>
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/stephen-colbert-rips-dumbest-possible-080133368.html
I did see that one and just thought well that's a good point. If you
don't have any laws then the crime rate will be non-existent. Maybe have
a half-way house where no one is sent to gaol as that clearly doesn't
stop people doing bad things!
Another one I would have found amusing if it wasn't over such a tragic situation was Ted Cruz being asked by a reporter from Sky News about the issue. The basic response was to try and dodge the question, walk off,
then become aggressive and finally basically say if it's so bad why do
so many people want to come to the US.
On 5/27/2022 2:13 AM, JAB wrote:
On 26/05/2022 21:08, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
There is a lot to say about what is wrong in the US. And there is a
huge number of us in this country who have not given up or are
ignoring the problem. But here's an example what we are facing in
trying to reign in the violence:
"Stephen Colbert noted that gun control has widespread bipartisan
popularity, with 90% of voters supporting background checks.
The only thing more popular than background checks is Dolly Parton
riding a corgi bringing you free ice cream, he cracked, and even
offered up an image:
And birthday sex, he added. With free ice cream.
Yet, Republican lawmakers are doing everything they can to block any
attempt to restrict firearms, and theyre offering some absurd
justifications for doing so in the wake of this weeks mass shooting
at a Texas elementary school.
We cant stop bad people from doing bad things, Texas Attorney
General Ken Paxton said. Theyre going to violate murder laws,
theyre not going to follow gun laws, Ive never understood that
argument.
That left Colbert scratching his head.
I gotta say: Laws are pointless is a bold position for the attorney
general, Colbert said. I think he just announced The Purge."
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/stephen-colbert-rips-dumbest-possible-080133368.html
I did see that one and just thought well that's a good point. If you
don't have any laws then the crime rate will be non-existent. Maybe have
a half-way house where no one is sent to gaol as that clearly doesn't
stop people doing bad things!
Another one I would have found amusing if it wasn't over such a tragic
situation was Ted Cruz being asked by a reporter from Sky News about the
issue. The basic response was to try and dodge the question, walk off,
then become aggressive and finally basically say if it's so bad why do
so many people want to come to the US.
As for why they come to the US, because at least here they can earn a
little more money and have a slightly higher chance of surviving being
shot by a roving drug cartel hit squad or civil war militia.
On Fri, 27 May 2022 07:37:05 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
On 5/27/2022 2:13 AM, JAB wrote:
On 26/05/2022 21:08, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
There is a lot to say about what is wrong in the US. And there is a
huge number of us in this country who have not given up or are
ignoring the problem. But here's an example what we are facing in
trying to reign in the violence:
"Stephen Colbert noted that gun control has widespread bipartisan
popularity, with 90% of voters supporting background checks.
“The only thing more popular than background checks is Dolly Parton
riding a corgi bringing you free ice cream,” he cracked, and even
offered up an image:
“And birthday sex,” he added. “With free ice cream.”
Yet, Republican lawmakers are doing everything they can to block any
attempt to restrict firearms, and they’re offering some absurd
justifications for doing so in the wake of this week’s mass shooting >>>> at a Texas elementary school.
“We can’t stop bad people from doing bad things,” Texas Attorney >>>> General Ken Paxton said. “They’re going to violate murder laws,
they’re not going to follow gun laws, I’ve never understood that
argument.”
That left Colbert scratching his head.
“I gotta say: ‘Laws are pointless’ is a bold position for the attorney
general,” Colbert said. “I think he just announced ‘The Purge.’”"
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/stephen-colbert-rips-dumbest-possible-080133368.html
I did see that one and just thought well that's a good point. If you
don't have any laws then the crime rate will be non-existent. Maybe have >>> a half-way house where no one is sent to gaol as that clearly doesn't
stop people doing bad things!
Another one I would have found amusing if it wasn't over such a tragic
situation was Ted Cruz being asked by a reporter from Sky News about the >>> issue. The basic response was to try and dodge the question, walk off,
then become aggressive and finally basically say if it's so bad why do
so many people want to come to the US.
As for why they come to the US, because at least here they can earn a
little more money and have a slightly higher chance of surviving being
shot by a roving drug cartel hit squad or civil war militia.
While the American right-wing party is despicable, their (so-called) left-wingers aren't much better, seeing as they have (nominal) control
of the Congress and - despite this - decided the best thing to do
following the tragedy was have a recess.
Mind you, if you really wanted to get support for gun control in
America, just start arming black Americans en masse. It's why
California enacted such strict gun control laws in the 70s. Even the
American rifle association was behind stricter gun control laws after
the Black Panthers started legally carrying guns. Start buying any
black person from Ohio - a licenseless open-carry state - a free
assault rifle and see how quickly all those people insisting on the 'unbreachable, constitutionally-protected right to bear arms' start
demanding a more 'nuanced' take on the law.
(It's not a tactic I'd recommend, though, seeing as how poorly
trained, racist and violent are American police... but it is a viable strategy if you don't care about lives lost).
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