• The art of trolling dead?

    From JAB@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 23 10:09:23 2022
    This is mostly based around Steam but also online 'forums' in general.
    I'm old enough to remember when trolling wasn't that common but also was
    more limited into getting someone dragged into a conversation without
    realising what was happening. So it required a bit of creativity and
    also humour (not malice), someone like bloodninja springs to mind.

    Now there seems to be far more trolls but the trolling itself just
    consists of obvious insults straight out the gate. Anyone can do that
    surely so where's the fun in it. If you 'speak' to enough people then
    yes, you will find someone who reacts. Indeed is it even trolling if the
    vast majority of people see it as such straight away.

    As an aside, something that does annoy me about the term troll is that
    probably in the last ten years it morphed itself from what I understood
    it to be into just being abusive to someone online. I'm going to blame main-stream-media as it's always their fault!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@21:1/5 to JAB on Wed Mar 23 12:24:22 2022
    On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 10:09:23 +0000, JAB <noway@co.uk> wrote:

    This is mostly based around Steam but also online 'forums' in general.
    I'm old enough to remember when trolling wasn't that common but also was
    more limited into getting someone dragged into a conversation without >realising what was happening. So it required a bit of creativity and
    also humour (not malice), someone like bloodninja springs to mind.

    Now there seems to be far more trolls but the trolling itself just
    consists of obvious insults straight out the gate. Anyone can do that
    surely so where's the fun in it. If you 'speak' to enough people then
    yes, you will find someone who reacts. Indeed is it even trolling if the
    vast majority of people see it as such straight away.

    As an aside, something that does annoy me about the term troll is that >probably in the last ten years it morphed itself from what I understood
    it to be into just being abusive to someone online. I'm going to blame >main-stream-media as it's always their fault!


    Ah, the good old days of the epic troll. Back when there actually was
    some effort into plying the art. Until the final denoument, you were
    never really sure if you were actually being trolled or if it were all
    a misunderstanding; you engaged with the troll because you thought
    there was some chance of coming to an agreement. The true masters
    could keep a conversation going for weeks before everyone realized
    they were only in it for the sake of being argumentative or
    disruptive. It was actually a difficult decision whether or not to
    kill-file them because - as much as their trolls were annoying - they
    also added enough legitimate content to a newsgroup/forum to give
    their persona a veneer of respectability. In fact, for the longest
    time I confused the word 'troll' with 'trawl', because essentially the
    latter is what a proper troll did; he was a mixture of appealing and
    danger, and his dangled lines were baited hooks just waiting for
    somebody to bite.

    These days, you'll have some half-wit rush into a room with an
    offensive name and spew out expletives and imprecations and think
    that's in anyway comparative. That's not trolling; that's just being a
    moronic ass. It is lazy and ineffective; people just ignore you and
    get back to what they were doing before the interruption. It's the
    foul-mouthed equivalent of a 'me too!' post; completely devoid of
    worth and not deserving of the title of 'troll'. There's no 'trawl' to
    modern trolls; everybody can see their 'lures' are just turds sinking
    down into the abyss, and steer clear.

    I can understand the why of the shift, though. Back in Usenet's
    heyday, a good troll could inflict their horrors on thousands -
    potentially hundreds of thousands - of people. But Usenet - and forums
    in general - have become so fragmented that most boards only have a
    few hundred or dozens of readers; it's hardly worth the amount of work
    it would take for a proper troll. So the purveyors of that art have
    moved on to brighter pastures where their reach is greater (maybe to
    GBNews or Fox? ;-). Thus, we're left with the dregs who have inherited
    the title by default. But even if they are sometimes called trolls,
    they in no way are; they're just crass nitwits who everybody ignores,
    online and in real life.

    Now get of my lawn!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rin Stowleigh@21:1/5 to spallshurgenson@gmail.com on Wed Mar 23 21:20:58 2022
    On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 12:24:22 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

    I can understand the why of the shift, though. Back in Usenet's
    heyday, a good troll could inflict their horrors on thousands -
    potentially hundreds of thousands - of people. But Usenet - and forums
    in general - have become so fragmented that most boards only have a
    few hundred or dozens of readers; it's hardly worth the amount of work
    it would take for a proper troll. So the purveyors of that art have
    moved on to brighter pastures where their reach is greater (maybe to
    GBNews or Fox? ;-).

    My own definition of a troll back in the day was, as you said, mostly synonymous with trawling. Usually it was someone who was going for a
    high post count, to see how many responses they could get / how many
    people they could annoy in a single thread, etc. Sometimes they just
    seemed to derive satisfaction from annoying others. Personally I
    believe many of them were satisfying a craving for attention they
    couldn't get any other way.

    What was different back then is that a lot of the *effective* trolling
    that took place usually crept up on the reader in the sense that early
    in the thread, it didn't reveal itself as a troll attempt. It
    presented some intriguing or maybe controversial topic or stance. And
    then slowly as you read or participated in the followup posts, it
    started to become obvious that the poster had no intention of
    participating in a productive discussion, and then this sinking
    feeling set in like "fuck, I just got trolled" because of the time
    invested in reading that far.

    Skilled trolls knew how to spark and attract interest in thread
    participation, while sending the thread, unnoticed, into a slow
    downward spiral that always ended in regret for anyone who didn't
    ignore what was being posted along the way.

    "Trolls" these days mostly aren't that. I don't think the IQ level of
    the average social media poster these days is on the same playing
    field as, for example the average Usenet poster in say the early 90's.
    And, it's probably only going to get worse for future generations, the
    impact of the pandemic and the disruptions to in-school learning has
    apparently substantially damaged formative academic years for an
    entire generation, and I doubt the disruptions are going to find a
    permanent end any time soon.

    In addition to that, I think the advent of smartphones and social
    media meant that being an ass behind a keyboard simply became
    available to a much wider spectrum of people -- many of whom are
    incapable of intentional, skilled trolling I mentioned above. What
    they are capable of is using their phone to be an ass, and since that
    doesn't take any skill, it becomes a favorite past-time of many.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@21:1/5 to rstowleigh@x-nospam-x.com on Thu Mar 24 15:52:43 2022
    On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 21:20:58 -0400, Rin Stowleigh
    <rstowleigh@x-nospam-x.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 12:24:22 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson ><spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

    I can understand the why of the shift, though. Back in Usenet's
    heyday, a good troll could inflict their horrors on thousands -
    potentially hundreds of thousands - of people. But Usenet - and forums
    in general - have become so fragmented that most boards only have a
    few hundred or dozens of readers; it's hardly worth the amount of work
    it would take for a proper troll. So the purveyors of that art have
    moved on to brighter pastures where their reach is greater (maybe to
    GBNews or Fox? ;-).

    My own definition of a troll back in the day was, as you said, mostly >synonymous with trawling. Usually it was someone who was going for a
    high post count, to see how many responses they could get / how many
    people they could annoy in a single thread, etc. Sometimes they just
    seemed to derive satisfaction from annoying others. Personally I
    believe many of them were satisfying a craving for attention they
    couldn't get any other way.

    What was different back then is that a lot of the *effective* trolling
    that took place usually crept up on the reader in the sense that early
    in the thread, it didn't reveal itself as a troll attempt. It
    presented some intriguing or maybe controversial topic or stance. And
    then slowly as you read or participated in the followup posts, it
    started to become obvious that the poster had no intention of
    participating in a productive discussion, and then this sinking
    feeling set in like "fuck, I just got trolled" because of the time
    invested in reading that far.

    Skilled trolls knew how to spark and attract interest in thread >participation, while sending the thread, unnoticed, into a slow
    downward spiral that always ended in regret for anyone who didn't
    ignore what was being posted along the way.

    "Trolls" these days mostly aren't that. I don't think the IQ level of
    the average social media poster these days is on the same playing
    field as, for example the average Usenet poster in say the early 90's.
    And, it's probably only going to get worse for future generations, the
    impact of the pandemic and the disruptions to in-school learning has >apparently substantially damaged formative academic years for an
    entire generation, and I doubt the disruptions are going to find a
    permanent end any time soon.

    In addition to that, I think the advent of smartphones and social
    media meant that being an ass behind a keyboard simply became
    available to a much wider spectrum of people -- many of whom are
    incapable of intentional, skilled trolling I mentioned above. What
    they are capable of is using their phone to be an ass, and since that
    doesn't take any skill, it becomes a favorite past-time of many.


    While I won't go so far as to assert any vast difference in
    intelligence (I've no data to make any such assumption), there
    certainly was a significant difference in education levels. In those
    ancient times, to troll on the Internet (or even local BBS forums)
    there was a significantly higher barrier to entrance.

    At best, you merely had to have the technical chops to navigate the
    arcanities of computer technology (IRQs and DOS commands and Hayes/AT
    modem configurations, oh my!), all without access to easy answers from Wikipedia or Google. And for most people, Internet access either was
    through a university or through a job that demanded a degree. Few were
    able to achieve either without mastering the ability to string their
    thoughts together into a reasonable approximation of intelligent
    conversation.

    Nowadays, it's click-click-click and you're on the Internet; it's
    literally so easy that children can do it, and - clever as some of
    those enfant terrible may be - their ability to converse is
    understandably limited. If so many modern 'trolls' sound like
    children, it's because many of them actually are minors ... or only
    have the education and literacy of the same.

    But even more importantly, there has been a culture change on the
    Internet. During the troll's heyday, the idea of netiquette - and that
    one should heed it - was palpable. You just didn't post one-line
    insults; it was an uncouth indicator of the author's own foolishness.
    Trolls took their time to slowly hook their victims because any other
    method was unthinkable.

    Of course, the changing nature of the Internet affected this. In an
    era where everybody's identity was attached to a valuable (often
    expensive) account, it was easier for moderators to shut down the
    worst fools; the worst could get banned from the Internet for their
    actions. There were fewer forums too; modern trolls can jump from
    platform to platform; the worst they may suffer is no longer being
    able to post to some random website. It's hardly a loss when there are
    millions - billions! - more websites to exploit. But getting kicked
    off Usenet in the 80s and early 90s? That was a major hit, and there
    were fewer alternatives. Be an ass too often, and you've cut yourself
    from the entirity of your audience.

    I can't say I really miss the trolls of the elder days - they was a
    reason we compared them to the ugliest of mythological creatures - but
    I do have some appreciation for their talent. It's why I rarely
    bequeath their modern descendants by the title; they don't deserve it.
    Modern 'trolls' are little more than foul-mouthed attention-seeking
    deviants who - at best - deserve pity for their risible attempts to
    enflame their audience, but are mostly better left ignored; they've
    not put any effort into their work, so why should we expend any energy
    on their behalf?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Justisaur@21:1/5 to JAB on Thu Mar 24 18:28:56 2022
    On Wednesday, March 23, 2022 at 3:09:26 AM UTC-7, JAB wrote:
    This is mostly based around Steam but also online 'forums' in general.
    I'm old enough to remember when trolling wasn't that common but also was
    more limited into getting someone dragged into a conversation without realising what was happening. So it required a bit of creativity and
    also humour (not malice), someone like bloodninja springs to mind.

    Now there seems to be far more trolls but the trolling itself just
    consists of obvious insults straight out the gate. Anyone can do that
    surely so where's the fun in it. If you 'speak' to enough people then
    yes, you will find someone who reacts. Indeed is it even trolling if the
    vast majority of people see it as such straight away.

    As an aside, something that does annoy me about the term troll is that probably in the last ten years it morphed itself from what I understood
    it to be into just being abusive to someone online. I'm going to blame main-stream-media as it's always their fault!

    Today's trolls are professionals. State actors trying to foment chaos.

    - Justisaur

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JAB@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 25 09:08:40 2022
    On 23/03/2022 16:24, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:


    Good old GBNews or Gammon Brexit News as it was quickly dubbed. Launched
    to much fan fair but hasn't turned out quite as expected. Some
    highlights are, Andrew Neil* resigning as chairman/presenter after a few
    months as it wasn't the show he was expecting. Receiving official
    viewing figures of zero at certain times of the day. Banging on about
    the problems of cancel culture and then effectively sacking a presenter
    becuase they took the knee on-air.

    *You've probably not heard of him but a video of him interviewing Ben
    Shapiro which didn't quite go as the latter expected did go a bit viral.
    I really don't think he understood who Neil was or indeed the format of
    the show he was been interviewed for. This wasn't going to be a bunch of softballs so he could go on about his normal talking points and nor
    would he normal style of just talking very fast at people going to work.
    It got so bad that Shapiro actually left the interview.

    The real highlight though, he called Neil a lefist. I think he basically replied something along the lines of he didn't understand how far from
    the truth he was.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)