• Re: Random Ramble: "The Day Before" and other risky business

    From Mike S.@21:1/5 to spallshurgenson@gmail.com on Tue Dec 12 08:20:04 2023
    On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 18:02:38 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

    Because, ultimately, the problem isn't with the developers or the
    publishers; it's with us, the gamers. We're the ones who refuse to
    take a risk on the new, the unusual. No, instead, we reward companies
    who follow the safe path, who regurgitate the same pabulum we've
    swallowed down dozens of time before. Even as we vocally bemoan the >stagnation of the gaming industry, we've financially assured
    developers, that the safe path is what we're really interested in.
    Here, take our $70 bucks; give us more "Call of Duty", more "Grand
    Theft Auto", more "Madden NFL". But new genres, new mechanics? Well,
    maybe we'll look at them if they're cheap or free.

    It is about time someone in this newsgroup said this. I did not think
    it would be you.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Mike S.@21:1/5 to spallshurgenson@gmail.com on Tue Dec 12 10:14:46 2023
    On Tue, 12 Dec 2023 09:36:43 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

    Why not? Have I not been bitching and moaning enough about reboots and >remakes and sequels? I can do it more, if it helps. I've been told
    that I'm good at bitching and moaning ;-)

    I always got the impression you blamed the industry for the lack of
    innovation. I don't. I blame us.

    Gamers like to complain about reboots and remakes and sequels but
    they keep buying them year after year. Gamers need to learn to put
    their money where their mouths are. But they never will because, in
    truth, I don't think they want to. There is comfort in the familiar.
    There is comfort in knowing what you are getting in return for your
    money and your time.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rin Stowleigh@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 12 10:40:06 2023
    On Tue, 12 Dec 2023 10:14:46 -0500, Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com>
    wrote:

    On Tue, 12 Dec 2023 09:36:43 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson ><spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

    Why not? Have I not been bitching and moaning enough about reboots and >>remakes and sequels? I can do it more, if it helps. I've been told
    that I'm good at bitching and moaning ;-)

    I always got the impression you blamed the industry for the lack of >innovation. I don't. I blame us.

    Gamers like to complain about reboots and remakes and sequels but
    they keep buying them year after year. Gamers need to learn to put
    their money where their mouths are. But they never will because, in
    truth, I don't think they want to. There is comfort in the familiar.
    There is comfort in knowing what you are getting in return for your
    money and your time.

    If there were enough GOOD innovative titles emerging, buyers would
    have no reason to retreat to buying proven franchises. But with the
    current state of AAA titles, most of the time if I buy a Far Cry or
    COD title, while the fun factor won't come in the form of
    unpredictability, at least I know a certain reproducible fun factor
    will be there -- at all.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimensional Traveler@21:1/5 to Spalls Hurgenson on Tue Dec 12 08:43:09 2023
    On 12/12/2023 6:36 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
    On Tue, 12 Dec 2023 08:20:04 -0500, Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com>
    wrote:
    On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 18:02:38 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson
    <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:


    Because, ultimately, the problem isn't with the developers or the
    publishers; it's with us, the gamers.

    It is about time someone in this newsgroup said this. I did not think
    it would be you.

    Why not? Have I not been bitching and moaning enough about reboots and remakes and sequels? I can do it more, if it helps. I've been told
    that I'm good at bitching and moaning ;-)

    Well, the holiday season is the traditional time to air grievances....

    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ross Ridge@21:1/5 to spallshurgenson@gmail.com on Tue Dec 12 18:40:01 2023
    Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
    ... There is some compelling evidence that the whole scheme may have
    in fact been a fraud - or at least a cash grab - from the start, with
    the aim of hyping up the game, releasing a lackluster product to rake
    in a boatload of cash, promising the world in future updates, then
    slinking off into the sunset with ill-gotten gains. Is that what really >happened? I've no idea, but it's not a good look for the developers.

    I'm going with don't attribue to malice something that's adquately
    explained by stupidity. You can't plan for the hype this game got, the developers had no reason to expect they could release a crappy game and
    still make a boatload of cash when they started working on it. It seems
    to be just a case of novice developers with unrealistic dreams and just
    enough cash to dig themselves a big hole they could never get out of.

    Because, ultimately, the problem isn't with the developers or the
    publishers; it's with us, the gamers. We're the ones who refuse to
    take a risk on the new, the unusual. No, instead, we reward companies
    who follow the safe path, who regurgitate the same pabulum we've
    swallowed down dozens of time before. Even as we vocally bemoan the >stagnation of the gaming industry, we've financially assured
    developers, that the safe path is what we're really interested in.
    Here, take our $70 bucks; give us more "Call of Duty", more "Grand
    Theft Auto", more "Madden NFL". But new genres, new mechanics? Well,
    maybe we'll look at them if they're cheap or free.

    Personally, I have no problem with companies mining the same IP all the
    time, but I also don't see the gaming industry stagnating as a result.
    Aside from the fact sequels often make evolutionary improvements,
    there's plenty of revolutionary games out there.

    --
    l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
    [oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
    -()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca:11068/
    db //

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimensional Traveler@21:1/5 to Spalls Hurgenson on Tue Dec 12 12:23:38 2023
    On 12/12/2023 11:39 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
    On Tue, 12 Dec 2023 10:14:46 -0500, Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com>
    wrote:

    On Tue, 12 Dec 2023 09:36:43 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson
    <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

    Why not? Have I not been bitching and moaning enough about reboots and
    remakes and sequels? I can do it more, if it helps. I've been told
    that I'm good at bitching and moaning ;-)

    I always got the impression you blamed the industry for the lack of
    innovation. I don't. I blame us.

    I don't absolve the industry either. Sure, I understand how for the publishers it is easier and surer to just make endless
    remakes/clones/etc. After all, even with a mediocre game, you're
    likely to break even if you take the safe path and copy what's already
    been done. This has been Ubisoft's way of doing things for years.

    But it's not the ONLY road to success, and the biggest blockbusters
    have always been the ones that have tried something new. And
    eventually, even the most nostalgic gamers will tire of the "same ol',
    same ol'". When that happens, it's the risk-takers, the ones who have
    the skill at creating new mechanics and IPs, that will flourish while
    the stick-in-the-muds go bankrupt.

    The industry - especially the big name publishers - is far too
    risk-averse. And it's doing neither gamers nor the industry any
    favors. Gamers indisputably need to be more open and willing to take chances... but so too must developers and publishers. Otherwise we
    both will wallow in mediocrity, neck-deep in the video-game equivalent
    of 80s sitcoms and soaps. It can't just be about the bottom line; game
    design is an art, and art demands risk.

    This is not limited to the computer game industry. Any industry where
    you get really large, high income companies they become very risk
    adverse. It has a lot to do with how companies are owned and who they
    are accountable to currently compared to 20 or 40 years ago.

    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JAB@21:1/5 to Spalls Hurgenson on Wed Dec 13 09:42:31 2023
    On 11/12/2023 23:02, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
    Because, ultimately, the problem isn't with the developers or the
    publishers; it's with us, the gamers. We're the ones who refuse to
    take a risk on the new, the unusual. No, instead, we reward companies
    who follow the safe path, who regurgitate the same pabulum we've
    swallowed down dozens of time before. Even as we vocally bemoan the stagnation of the gaming industry, we've financially assured
    developers, that the safe path is what we're really interested in.
    Here, take our $70 bucks; give us more "Call of Duty", more "Grand
    Theft Auto", more "Madden NFL". But new genres, new mechanics? Well,
    maybe we'll look at them if they're cheap or free.


    I tend to agree and it's the same as I've previously said about MTX. Can
    you really blame the devs putting them in when the reaction from PC
    gamers is first one of outrage followed very quickly by getting their
    wallets out. It's the same with recycling the tried and tested, to
    paraphrase someone else, you'll get original IP's when gamers stop
    buying unoriginal ones.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)