• Knowin' Your Classics Pt 3: 2004-2014

    From Spalls Hurgenson@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 21 11:42:10 2023
    So let's round out this selection of PC gaming classics and see how
    well you know this next batch of 'classic games'. As with our previous
    surveys, I've had to make a lot of very arbitrary decisions about what
    to include and what not to include.

    In fact, the 2004-2013 era was the one where I had the hardest time
    making my selections. This was for a variety of reasons* but it means
    that I am least certain that these games are deserving of the title,
    and that I haven't missed many other far-more-deserving games.

    Are all of these games classics? I'm not sure. But let's see how many
    of them you've played anyway.

    --------------

    Scoring: S - This is my favorite game! (only can be applied once)
    A - I've completed the game multiple times
    B - I've played it and completed it once
    C - I've played it but never finished it
    D - I know of it (or own it) but have never played it
    E - I never even heard of this game!

    --------------


    2004 Half Life 2
    World of Warcraft
    2005 Psychonauts
    F.E.A.R.
    2006 Half Life 2 Episode One
    Civilization IV
    2007 Bioshock
    Portal
    2008 The Witcher
    Left 3 Dead
    2009 Braid
    Mirror's Edge
    2010 Amnesia: Dark Descent
    World of Tanks
    2011 Minecraft
    Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
    2012 FTL: Faster than Light
    Eurotruck Simulator 2
    2013 DOTA2
    Dishonored

    --------------

    My score: ACBAAAAAAABABDAABADB

    It's the usual mix of single and multiple playthroughs, but this time
    there are a few stand-outs.: "World of Warcraft" got only a minimum of
    time for me (enough to see that it wasn't a game for me); "World of
    Tanks" and "DOTA2" are both games I've never even bothered to buy. And
    yes, I tossed "Eurotruck Simulator 2" into the mix, but not just
    because I play it so often, but also because in many ways it
    popularized the 'workplace simulator' genre that has exploded since
    its release.


    So, how did you do? Did I miss out on some games you feel absolutely
    deserved to be on the list (almost certainly I did!)? And was this
    whole thread a fun diversion or a colossal waste of time? Usenet
    awaits your response!







    --------------

    * reasons why it was hard for me to figure out which games were
    'classics' as I define them.**

    1) the industry moved hard in the direction of
    sequelization, which was less financially risky for
    the publishers but also meant that they were taking
    less chances. Since one of the qualifications I use
    for a game being a classic was how much influence
    it had on the hobby, a lot of games didn't make the
    cut for that reason alone.
    2) Indie games were often more experimental, but by
    their very nature didn't have enough clout to move
    the industry very far.
    3) The hobby itself had also matured, which meant
    there was less room for major shifts.
    4) Finally, for many of these games, there just hasn't
    been enough time to see how influential they really
    have been yet (which is also why I'm not doing any
    games released AFTER 2014).

    ** My definition of what a 'classic game' is includes the
    following qualifications:
    a) it's fun
    b) it is memorable
    c) it is technologically advanced (for its time)
    d) it adds new features or gameplay to the genre
    e) it introduces or popularizes a genre
    f) it is a key franchise for a developer that has
    had significant influence
    'Classics games' don't need to tick off ALL of these
    boxes (well, except maybe for the first) but should
    have at least three or four of them.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Justisaur@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 21 15:18:50 2023
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 8:42:23 AM UTC-8, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    B - 2004 Half Life 2
    C - World of Warcraft (Is it completable? In any case I didn't even get close to
    end level, only a 3 month stint which I mostly didn't enjoy to try to play with
    coworkers.)
    B - 2005 Psychonauts
    D - F.E.A.R.
    B - 2006 Half Life 2 Episode One
    D - Civilization IV
    C - 2007 Bioshock
    B - Portal
    B - 2008 The Witcher
    E - Left 3 Dead (I don't know how I haven't heard of this.)
    D - 2009 Braid
    D - Mirror's Edge
    D - 2010 Amnesia: Dark Descent
    C - World of Tanks (Might qualify for a B as I think I got to all the missions.)
    C - 2011 Minecraft (Never did get to killing the dragon, the end feels like an
    afterthought.)
    C - Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim (Got to the end dragon, I just lost interest before
    beating it.)
    C - 2012 FTL: Faster than Light
    D - Eurotruck Simulator 2 (LoL of course you put this here, and if we're here
    I don't see how we could've avoided hearing about it.)
    D - 2013 DOTA2
    C - Dishonored
    My score: ACBAAAAAAABABDAABADB

    Oof, Mine is pretty bad on this list, not a single A and even an E.

    5xB
    7xC
    7xD
    1xE

    I'll have to come back with a list grounded more in reality when I get the chance. ;)

    - Justisaur

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mike S.@21:1/5 to spallshurgenson@gmail.com on Wed Nov 22 08:53:55 2023
    On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 11:42:10 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

    Scoring: S - This is my favorite game! (only can be applied once)
    A - I've completed the game multiple times
    B - I've played it and completed it once
    C - I've played it but never finished it
    D - I know of it (or own it) but have never played it
    E - I never even heard of this game!

    --------------


    2004 Half Life 2
    World of Warcraft
    2005 Psychonauts
    F.E.A.R.
    2006 Half Life 2 Episode One
    Civilization IV
    2007 Bioshock
    Portal
    2008 The Witcher
    Left 3 Dead
    2009 Braid
    Mirror's Edge
    2010 Amnesia: Dark Descent
    World of Tanks
    2011 Minecraft
    Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
    2012 FTL: Faster than Light
    Eurotruck Simulator 2
    2013 DOTA2
    Dishonored

    D
    S - My favorite MMO. I played this to death back in the day.
    D
    D
    D
    D - I really need to get around to playing CIV 4!
    D - I own Bioshock but I doubt I will like it as much as System Shock
    D
    D
    D
    D
    D
    D
    D
    D
    D - To date, I have only every played Elder Scrolls 1 Arena. I only
    dabbled with Daggerfall Unity and Morrowind
    D
    D - I only heard of Eurotruck Simulator 2 because of *you* Spalls.
    Does that make it D or E? I will go with D.
    D
    D

    Yeah, all Ds for me other then for World of Warcraft. I am not
    surprised by that as I prefer older titles. But I am surprised I do
    not have any E ratings!

    I am sure I will score the worst this time around.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mike S.@21:1/5 to justisaur@gmail.com on Wed Nov 22 08:56:46 2023
    On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 15:18:50 -0800 (PST), Justisaur
    <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:

    E - Left 3 Dead (I don't know how I haven't heard of this.)

    Ok, wait. I heard of Left 4 Dead. I never heard of this one either.
    Looks like I have an E after all.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anssi Saari@21:1/5 to All on Wed Nov 22 18:11:07 2023
    Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> writes:

    2004 Half Life 2 B
    World of Warcraft D
    2005 Psychonauts D
    F.E.A.R. D
    2006 Half Life 2 Episode One B
    Civilization IV D
    2007 Bioshock C
    Portal A
    2008 The Witcher D
    Left 3 Dead D
    2009 Braid E
    Mirror's Edge C
    2010 Amnesia: Dark Descent E
    World of Tanks D
    2011 Minecraft D
    Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim D
    2012 FTL: Faster than Light C
    Eurotruck Simulator 2 D
    2013 DOTA2 D
    Dishonored C

    No real faves here. I wouldn't have even a single A if I hadn't replayed
    Portal recently. Two is multiple playthroughs, right?

    Borderlands 1&2, GTA (as many as five? no, six), Fallout 3&NV, Mass
    Effect 1&2, Deus Ex: Human Revolution come to mind as time sinks from
    this era. Sequelization features heavily and seems none of those are
    classics by your definition.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@21:1/5 to All on Wed Nov 22 16:11:27 2023
    On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 08:56:46 -0500, Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com>
    wrote:

    On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 15:18:50 -0800 (PST), Justisaur
    <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:

    E - Left 3 Dead (I don't know how I haven't heard of this.)

    Ok, wait. I heard of Left 4 Dead. I never heard of this one either.
    Looks like I have an E after all.


    <sigh>

    "Oh, I see I mispelled "Left 4 Dead". I need to not forget to go back
    and correct that before I hit post. Let me just change this one other
    paragraph first. Good, now to correct "Left 4 Dead"... but, oh, that's
    quite an egregious typo there. Next, "Left 4 Dead"... oh, the wording
    of that sentence is terrible, and maybe I should move this entire
    chunk to footnotes? Oh, that's much better. Time to post. Say, did I
    ever correct "Left 4 Dead"? Oh, I'm sure I must have."

    <double sigh>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Justisaur@21:1/5 to Anssi Saari on Wed Nov 22 14:25:54 2023
    On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 8:11:11 AM UTC-8, Anssi Saari wrote:
    Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> writes:

    2004 Half Life 2 B
    World of Warcraft D
    2005 Psychonauts D
    F.E.A.R. D
    2006 Half Life 2 Episode One B
    Civilization IV D
    2007 Bioshock C
    Portal A
    2008 The Witcher D
    Left 3 Dead D
    2009 Braid E
    Mirror's Edge C
    2010 Amnesia: Dark Descent E
    World of Tanks D
    2011 Minecraft D
    Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim D
    2012 FTL: Faster than Light C
    Eurotruck Simulator 2 D
    2013 DOTA2 D
    Dishonored C

    No real faves here. I wouldn't have even a single A if I hadn't replayed Portal recently. Two is multiple playthroughs, right?

    Borderlands 1&2, GTA (as many as five? no, six), Fallout 3&NV, Mass
    Effect 1&2, Deus Ex: Human Revolution come to mind as time sinks from
    this era. Sequelization features heavily and seems none of those are classics by your definition.

    Much better. He has plenty of sequels in there anyway.

    Half Life 2
    Half Life 2 Episode One
    Civilization IV
    Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
    Eurotruck Simulator 2
    DOTA2

    - Justisaur

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From candycanearter07@21:1/5 to Spalls Hurgenson on Wed Nov 22 16:40:47 2023
    On 11/21/23 10:42, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    So let's round out this selection of PC gaming classics and see how
    well you know this next batch of 'classic games'. As with our previous surveys, I've had to make a lot of very arbitrary decisions about what
    to include and what not to include.

    In fact, the 2004-2013 era was the one where I had the hardest time
    making my selections. This was for a variety of reasons* but it means
    that I am least certain that these games are deserving of the title,
    and that I haven't missed many other far-more-deserving games.

    Are all of these games classics? I'm not sure. But let's see how many
    of them you've played anyway.

    --------------

    Scoring: S - This is my favorite game! (only can be applied once)
    A - I've completed the game multiple times
    B - I've played it and completed it once
    C - I've played it but never finished it
    D - I know of it (or own it) but have never played it
    E - I never even heard of this game!

    --------------


    2004 Half Life 2
    C
    World of Warcraft
    D
    2005 Psychonauts
    D
    F.E.A.R.
    E
    2006 Half Life 2 Episode One
    D
    Civilization IV
    D
    2007 Bioshock
    D
    Portal
    A (because of course :))
    2008 The Witcher
    D
    Left 3 Dead
    A (does the sequel count? i mean, they hve all the originals games and i
    have played every campaign a lot)
    2009 Braid
    E
    Mirror's Edge
    D
    2010 Amnesia: Dark Descent
    D
    World of Tanks
    D
    2011 Minecraft
    B (i really dont like modern minecraft)
    Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
    C (i know, i know, its just not my type)
    2012 FTL: Faster than Light
    E
    Eurotruck Simulator 2
    D
    2013 DOTA2
    D
    Dishonored
    D

    --
    user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Justisaur@21:1/5 to All on Wed Nov 22 17:57:54 2023
    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 8:42:23 AM UTC-8, Spalls
    Hurgenson wrote:

    BONUS Justisaur's picks round! With critique of Spall's choices.

    2004 Half Life 2 - Technically revolutionary, o.k.
    World of Warcraft - I'll give you this one, popularized MMOs
    significantly morethan they were. Didn't really do anything
    revolutionary though. CoH was far more memorable and a hell of a lot
    better to me, but seems to be a bit niche. Also if WoW is here, EQ
    should've been earlier.

    2004 BONUS Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War - Yeah not as important as
    either of the above, but it felt like the first modern RTS that
    brought the game from the tabletop to the computer in an actually fun
    way. My score - A.

    2005 Psychonauts - fun little game, but really it was similar to
    a thousand other console games before it, don't think it makes the
    list. It's well loved and funny, but it also is very consolized
    and I wouldn't even put it in the PC game category.
    F.E.A.R. - I don't know enough to really comment on it, seems to have
    been a technically revolutionary game. I suppose I should play it
    and find out.

    2005 BONUS - Civilization IV - yeah it came out in 2005. o.k. I'm
    cheating a bit because this seems a very bad year. - C or D.

    2006 Half Life 2 Episode One - Essentially a DLC? Really?
    Civilization IV - wrong year, but, it's just another Civ isn't it?
    Well I don't know, not into Civs.

    2006 BONUS - Fallout 3 - This should be at the top of this year. It's
    remarkable for a number of reasons. A large(er) company buys the IP
    from a long dead franchise and successfully ressurects while updating
    it, when has that ever happened?!? Went from turn based isometric to
    FPS with an innovative pause and rpg aiming for the slow of twich.
    Kept a good deal of the weirdness and humor. It sure is memorable.
    Possibly an S for me, definately an A.

    2007 Bioshock - o.k. I guess, it just didn't grab me *shrug*
    Portal - This belongs here for sure in the #1 slot.

    2007 BONUS - Mass Effect - start of a franchise, best of them in my
    opinion, when's the last space action rpg, really brought this genre
    back. A. Alternately Crysis.

    2008 The Witcher - belongs in 2007. I don't really see why this is on
    the list. Yes it's a good fantasy RPG (with horrendous combat) I
    suppose being forign?
    Left 3< 4 Dead - I can see why this is here. Really brought a lot of
    people to the squad survival horror genere.

    2008 BONUS - Spore - Very popular alien evolution sim. This far more
    deserves to be on the list than Witcher. A - You thought I was going
    to say GTA IV didn't you?

    2009 Braid - Eh a puzzle game I barely even heard about.
    Mirror's Edge - platforming, innovative I hear, but a novelty at best.

    2009 BONUS - Borderlands - Weird psycho cell shaded over the top nuts
    FPS with classes and loot randomization and random squads that
    started a franchise and possibly the loot style. I don't see how you
    skipped over this for the other two, this had very lasting effects
    and was one of the funnest games of the decade let alone year. A. I
    can't even tell you how many times I finished this.

    2010 Amnesia: Dark Descent - Don't know enough to comment and there's
    a lot to choose from, but not much of import.
    World of Tanks - Deserves to be here, started this style of game.

    2010 BONUS - Super Meat Boy - Is this the start of the 8 bit
    retrogaming? Sadly I haven't even played it. D. I'm tempted to put
    FO:NV, I didn't really enjoy it, but did finish it.

    2011 Minecraft - Yeah, this really hits the mark.
    Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - I really don't see what Skyrim adds to
    anything, other than it's probably the best of ES games. But then I
    don't really think ES games are very good, I just tollerate them for
    lack of better RPGS.

    2011 BONUS - Duke Nukum Forever - o.k. not really, but it was such a
    laughing stock and meme for so long, probably the most infamous game
    of all time. As you could guess that's a D.
    I really want to put Dark Souls here as it hits all the boxes far
    harder - started a franchise and a whole copy-cat industry, and even
    things just similar in some way earning the moniker 'souls-like'.
    However it was first a console game, and it does show.

    2012 FTL: Faster than Light - Is this the first "Rogulike?" I can't
    determine that, but if so then it deserves it. If not I'm
    questioning why it's here.
    Eurotruck Simulator 2 - :P

    2012 BONUS - Diablo III - More for infamy again in their 'innovation'
    of a real money markteplace. At least I thought the in game money marketplace was a huge improvement over trying to trade over boards,
    but I seem to be alone in that, and they were both dropped. It was
    fun at least.

    2013 DOTA2 - Another I don't know enough to talk about, just never
    looked like my kind of game. I assume fame for the type of game it is. Dishonored - I'm not sure what this brings? Steampunk? Not tht there's
    much else deserving.

    2013 BONUS - Assassin's Creed Black Flag - It had actually fun pirating
    and swashbuckling which is more than I can say for any other pirate
    game, too bad it was saddled with AC. Like I said not much else
    deserving this year.

    I agree with stopping at 2013, further and it's not classic anymore.
    Frankly I don't think any of these have reached 'classic' even.

    ** My definition of what a 'classic game' is includes the
    following qualifications:
    a) it's fun

    Subjective, and you leave out what other people think is fun, and
    include what others don't (*cough* EtSim *cough*) There's many there I
    don't particularly think are fun

    b) it is memorable

    Subjective.

    c) it is technologically advanced (for its time)

    Crysis should be on the list then, or is that actually advanced, and
    just a hog?

    d) it adds new features or gameplay to the genre
    e) it introduces or popularizes a genre
    f) it is a key franchise for a developer that has
    had significant influence

    Ok, makes sense.

    'Classics games' don't need to tick off ALL of these
    boxes (well, except maybe for the first) but should
    have at least three or four of them.

    Quite a few don't tick off that first box for me.

    Don't take my critques and choices to seriously, I had to really
    stretch some this time.

    - Justisaur

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@21:1/5 to justisaur@gmail.com on Thu Nov 23 09:30:11 2023
    On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 14:25:54 -0800 (PST), Justisaur
    <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 8:11:11?AM UTC-8, Anssi Saari wrote:
    Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> writes:

    2004 Half Life 2 B
    World of Warcraft D
    2005 Psychonauts D
    F.E.A.R. D
    2006 Half Life 2 Episode One B
    Civilization IV D
    2007 Bioshock C
    Portal A
    2008 The Witcher D
    Left 3 Dead D
    2009 Braid E
    Mirror's Edge C
    2010 Amnesia: Dark Descent E
    World of Tanks D
    2011 Minecraft D
    Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim D
    2012 FTL: Faster than Light C
    Eurotruck Simulator 2 D
    2013 DOTA2 D
    Dishonored C

    No real faves here. I wouldn't have even a single A if I hadn't replayed
    Portal recently. Two is multiple playthroughs, right?

    Borderlands 1&2, GTA (as many as five? no, six), Fallout 3&NV, Mass
    Effect 1&2, Deus Ex: Human Revolution come to mind as time sinks from
    this era. Sequelization features heavily and seems none of those are
    classics by your definition.

    Many of those I considered. But I already included a GTA3 in an
    earlier survey, and after that one, the games didn't really advance
    the industry; they were just more of the same. Same with "Fallout 3"
    (basically just "Elder Scrolls Oblivion" with guns and radiation);
    "Mass Effect" (fun as it was, the games hewed extremely closely to the
    Bioware RPG formula), and "Deus Ex: Human Revolution" (just "Deus Ex" modernized). All fun and well put together games, but they all lacked
    the novelty or industry-shaking influence I wanted to highlight.

    I'll grant you "Borderlands" though. While I personally didn't enjoy
    the game that much, its popularity, the success it generated for
    developers Gearbox, and the many imitators it spawned earn it a
    mention. But with only two slots open for 2009, I had to make some
    editorial choices. I picked "Braid" because it was one of the first
    really big successes for Indie publishers (and helped prove that
    Indies were going to be a significant force in the industry), and
    "Mirror's Edge" because its focus on movement in games revitalized how
    the industry has us move around.

    Much better. He has plenty of sequels in there anyway.

    It's sort of hard to AVOID sequels in this era of games. But I had
    reasons for each beyond the fact that they were good games. Well,
    mostly ;-)

    * Half Life 2 - added for obvious reasons

    * Half Life 2 Episode One - added because it represented a significant
    push by the industry (now largely abandonned) to move to 'episodic
    gaming')

    * Civilization IV - arguably the weakest selection. I just like it a
    lot. ;-)

    * Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - it's huge success, Bethesda's endless
    re-releases, and the giagantic modding community it inspired (so large
    that some mods became stand-alone games) earned it the nod

    * Eurotruck Simulator 2 - a fun game, sure, but more importantly it
    popularized the 'workplace simulator' style of game, and showed how
    mid-tier developers could survive with only a few games if they
    continued to support it for years with expansions

    * DOTA2 - popularized the MOBA genre. Also, its stand-alone release
    pissed off Activision-Blizzard. ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@21:1/5 to justisaur@gmail.com on Thu Nov 23 09:51:37 2023
    On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 17:57:54 -0800 (PST), Justisaur
    <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, November 21, 2023 at 8:42:23?AM UTC-8, Spalls
    Hurgenson wrote:

    BONUS Justisaur's picks round! With critique of Spall's choices.


    2004 BONUS Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War - Yeah not as important as
    either of the above, but it felt like the first modern RTS that
    brought the game from the tabletop to the computer in an actually fun
    way. My score - A.

    2006 BONUS - Fallout 3 - This should be at the top of this year. It's
    remarkable for a number of reasons. A large(er) company buys the IP
    from a long dead franchise and successfully ressurects while updating
    it, when has that ever happened?!? Went from turn based isometric to
    FPS with an innovative pause and rpg aiming for the slow of twich.
    Kept a good deal of the weirdness and humor. It sure is memorable.
    Possibly an S for me, definately an A.

    2007 BONUS - Mass Effect - start of a franchise, best of them in my
    opinion, when's the last space action rpg, really brought this genre
    back. A. Alternately Crysis.

    2008 BONUS - Spore - Very popular alien evolution sim. This far more
    deserves to be on the list than Witcher. A - You thought I was going
    to say GTA IV didn't you?

    2009 BONUS - Borderlands - Weird psycho cell shaded over the top nuts
    FPS with classes and loot randomization and random squads that
    started a franchise and possibly the loot style. I don't see how you
    skipped over this for the other two, this had very lasting effects
    and was one of the funnest games of the decade let alone year. A. I
    can't even tell you how many times I finished this.

    2010 BONUS - Super Meat Boy - Is this the start of the 8 bit
    retrogaming? Sadly I haven't even played it. D. I'm tempted to put
    FO:NV, I didn't really enjoy it, but did finish it.

    2011 BONUS - Duke Nukum Forever - o.k. not really, but it was such a
    laughing stock and meme for so long, probably the most infamous game
    of all time. As you could guess that's a D.
    I really want to put Dark Souls here as it hits all the boxes far
    harder - started a franchise and a whole copy-cat industry, and even
    things just similar in some way earning the moniker 'souls-like'.
    However it was first a console game, and it does show.

    2012 BONUS - Diablo III - More for infamy again in their 'innovation'
    of a real money markteplace. At least I thought the in game money
    marketplace was a huge improvement over trying to trade over boards,
    but I seem to be alone in that, and they were both dropped. It was
    fun at least.

    2013 BONUS - Assassin's Creed Black Flag - It had actually fun pirating
    and swashbuckling which is more than I can say for any other pirate
    game, too bad it was saddled with AC. Like I said not much else
    deserving this year.

    I agree with stopping at 2013, further and it's not classic anymore.
    Frankly I don't think any of these have reached 'classic' even.

    Don't take my critques and choices to seriously, I had to really
    stretch some this time.


    Don't worry, I don't. One of the point of these posts was to inspire discussion, and I'd be silly to try and shut it down just because I
    didn't agree.

    Nor do I entirely disagree with many of your selections, although I do
    with some (for instance. "WH40K Dawn of War" didn't really move the
    industry very much; Gearbox's own "Company of Heroes" probably
    deserves the nod more.). But on the whole, I had to make some
    editorial choices to fit in the two-games-per-year motif I'd selected

    (were I to re-do the thread, I probably would have done only three or
    four years per list, allowing more games per year)

    But largely, I stand by my list. I'm not saying other games might not
    be as valid but I think most of the games I picked fit the criteria.


    My scores for the Justisaur Bonus Round: ----------------------------------------------

    - WH40K Dawn of War: A for the main game, B or C for the expansions

    - Fallout 3: A, natch

    - Super Meat Boy: An excellent selection, fits well with criteria, but
    only a C for me.

    - Fallout New Vegas: B (finished it just the once, gave up on
    subsequent playthroughs)

    - Mass Effect: A, natch

    - Duke Nukum Forever: A, sadly. But I had to see if the game REALLY
    was as bad as I remembered from my first playthrough (it was)

    - Diablo III: C, and even that's qualified (I played the console
    version because the always-on DRM on the PC annoyed me. One of the
    last, if not THE last, Activision games I played)

    - Assassin's Creed Black Flag: B. Fun, but no sense replaying when I
    can just play the next Ubisoft game and get the same experience ;-)

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  • From Mike S.@21:1/5 to justisaur@gmail.com on Thu Nov 23 10:34:52 2023
    On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 17:57:54 -0800 (PST), Justisaur
    <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:


    2009 BONUS - Borderlands - Weird psycho cell shaded over the top nuts
    FPS with classes and loot randomization and random squads that
    started a franchise and possibly the loot style. I don't see how you
    skipped over this for the other two, this had very lasting effects
    and was one of the funnest games of the decade let alone year. A. I
    can't even tell you how many times I finished this.

    I don't like FPS games. I don't like action games. But Borderlands is
    one of favorite games of all time. It is the very last game I played multiplayer with friends and it was so much fun. A definite S from me
    on Spalls tier list.

    Did Borderlands start the looter shooter sub-genre? If it did, it
    definitely belongs on Spalls list over the other games IMO.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Justisaur@21:1/5 to Mike S. on Thu Nov 23 09:27:42 2023
    On Thursday, November 23, 2023 at 7:34:55 AM UTC-8, Mike S. wrote:
    On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 17:57:54 -0800 (PST), Justisaur
    <just...@gmail.com> wrote:
    2009 BONUS - Borderlands - Weird psycho cell shaded over the top nuts
    FPS with classes and loot randomization and random squads that
    started a franchise and possibly the loot style. I don't see how you >skipped over this for the other two, this had very lasting effects
    and was one of the funnest games of the decade let alone year. A. I
    can't even tell you how many times I finished this.
    I don't like FPS games. I don't like action games. But Borderlands is
    one of favorite games of all time. It is the very last game I played multiplayer with friends and it was so much fun. A definite S from me
    on Spalls tier list.

    Did Borderlands start the looter shooter sub-genre? If it did, it
    definitely belongs on Spalls list over the other games IMO.

    I think it at least popularized it. Even if it was essentially, let's take diablo loot and put it in an Action RPG-FPS.

    - Justisaur

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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to All on Sun Nov 26 11:33:30 2023
    2004 Half Life 2 - A
    World of Warcraft - D
    2005 Psychonauts - C
    F.E.A.R. - C
    2006 Half Life 2 Episode One - A
    Civilization IV - A
    2007 Bioshock - C
    Portal - A
    2008 The Witcher - C
    Left 3 Dead - D
    2009 Braid - C
    Mirror's Edge - D
    2010 Amnesia: Dark Descent - C
    World of Tanks - B (sort of anyway)
    2011 Minecraft - D
    Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - C
    2012 FTL: Faster than Light - C
    Eurotruck Simulator 2 - D
    2013 DOTA2 - D
    Dishonored - C

    Two I'd add to my list, Far Cry for creating a more open world which
    wasn't you can have any colour you want as long as it was brown and
    STALKER. The latter I felt really pushed what an FPS could, and should,
    be despite its many flaws. Unfortunately the buying public didn't seem
    to agree with me.

    Oh and I can't help but mention Talos Principle which I felt took some
    ideas from Portal and made a better game.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to Mike S. on Sun Nov 26 11:23:40 2023
    On 23/11/2023 15:34, Mike S. wrote:
    On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 17:57:54 -0800 (PST), Justisaur
    <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:


    2009 BONUS - Borderlands - Weird psycho cell shaded over the top nuts
    FPS with classes and loot randomization and random squads that
    started a franchise and possibly the loot style. I don't see how you
    skipped over this for the other two, this had very lasting effects
    and was one of the funnest games of the decade let alone year. A. I
    can't even tell you how many times I finished this.

    I don't like FPS games. I don't like action games. But Borderlands is
    one of favorite games of all time. It is the very last game I played multiplayer with friends and it was so much fun. A definite S from me
    on Spalls tier list.

    Did Borderlands start the looter shooter sub-genre? If it did, it
    definitely belongs on Spalls list over the other games IMO.

    Borderlands is one of those strange games in that although I spent far
    more hours playing it than I normally do with a game, for me it didn't
    raise itself above what I'd call a enjoyable romp and fell far short of
    getting onto my classics list.

    Outer Worlds is in much the same category.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)