• PATA/IDE new slimline adapter

    From Ronald@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 12 14:17:36 2020
    I misplaced my first sata adapter, but have just received this adapter.
    Ebay item number 184529566106 seller myegreentree898

    On my Iyonix, the sata drive (previously formatted ADFS with USB
    adapter) will be found if on its own ide socket (as master), but not as
    slave to my usual ide boot drive.
    Both drives are Hitachi 2.5"
    The new ide/sata adapter can be configured master/slave, probably worth
    trying a second adapter to see if two adapters would work on the one 40
    pin cable.

    The drive previously formatted via USB is not getting recognised as
    being formatted, but there is a newer format utility released so won't
    delve into the reasons.
    Discknight fully recognised the hardware but all the files were wrong
    somehow.

    I'm expecting that once reformatted via the interface that it will be
    OK but will post again to confirm.

    HTH people interested, maybe Stefan, Chris Evans. Druck was selling his
    Iyonix, but may be able to help as to why usb formatting has not passed
    over to the ide/sata if it is still a valid issue.

    Ronald May

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  • From Alan Adams@21:1/5 to Ronald on Sat Dec 12 11:06:51 2020
    In message <17a573dd58.beeb@-.->
    Ronald <gettingchoppy@gmail.com> wrote:

    I misplaced my first sata adapter, but have just received this adapter.
    Ebay item number 184529566106 seller myegreentree898

    On my Iyonix, the sata drive (previously formatted ADFS with USB
    adapter) will be found if on its own ide socket (as master), but not as
    slave to my usual ide boot drive.
    Both drives are Hitachi 2.5"

    The master-slave relationship needs the drives to be compatible. Sometimes
    they won't cooperate, for example if the master has firmware much older
    than the slave.

    The new ide/sata adapter can be configured master/slave, probably worth trying a second adapter to see if two adapters would work on the one 40
    pin cable.

    The drive previously formatted via USB is not getting recognised as
    being formatted, but there is a newer format utility released so won't
    delve into the reasons.
    Discknight fully recognised the hardware but all the files were wrong somehow.

    I'm expecting that once reformatted via the interface that it will be
    OK but will post again to confirm.

    HTH people interested, maybe Stefan, Chris Evans. Druck was selling his Iyonix, but may be able to help as to why usb formatting has not passed
    over to the ide/sata if it is still a valid issue.

    Ronald May


    --
    Alan Adams

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  • From Ronald@21:1/5 to Alan Adams on Sun Dec 13 10:17:24 2020
    In message <ad97a9dd58.Alan@alan.adamshome.org.uk>
    Alan Adams <alan@adamshome.org.uk> wrote:

    In message <17a573dd58.beeb@-.->
    Ronald <gettingchoppy@gmail.com> wrote:
    <snip>
    On my Iyonix, the sata drive (previously formatted ADFS with USB
    adapter) will be found if on its own ide socket (as master), but not as slave to my usual ide boot drive.
    Both drives are Hitachi 2.5"

    The master-slave relationship needs the drives to be compatible. Sometimes they won't cooperate, for example if the master has firmware much older
    than the slave.

    <snip>
    Mmmm, the parallel ide hitachi will naturally have older firmware than
    the sata hitachi, so the combination may never work, unless there is
    firmware updates for old drives possible. Likely would be a Windows
    utility for that sort of thing.
    With two IDE slots, I have some flexibility, I guess the end game would
    likely be multiple ide/sata adapters with ssd's and or sata cd/dvd
    drives.

    I'm currently (very slowly) copying off 16GB data via USB to USB so I
    can try reformatting the sata drive.
    The slowness highlights why it would be good to use sata as an easy
    plugin drive, maybe not as convenient as USB but much better than the
    40-44pin adapter and the parallel ide 2.5" connection.

    Ronald May

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  • From Ronald@21:1/5 to Ronald on Sun Dec 13 15:11:50 2020
    In message <17a573dd58.beeb@-.->
    Ronald <gettingchoppy@gmail.com> wrote:
    <snip>

    The drive previously formatted via USB is not getting recognised as
    being formatted, but there is a newer format utility released so won't
    delve into the reasons.
    Discknight fully recognised the hardware but all the files were wrong somehow.

    I'm expecting that once reformatted via the interface that it will be
    OK but will post again to confirm.

    <snip>
    OK, the sata drive formatted with (newest) hform of Oct 20 has had a 5GB
    docs folder written to it and it also mounts with the USB/Sata adapter.

    When hform formats through ide it suggests (and I used)
    77527 cyls 16Hds 189 sectors/track

    When hform formats though scsi(usb) it suggests (and I used last time)
    63005 cyls 61 Hds 61 sectors/track

    But this USB formatting resulted in 'has disc been formatted' when I
    tried to read it with ide/sata adapter, though it did work with USB OK.

    Obviously the best way is to always format with ide.
    But could it be something that needs to be fixed in Hform->Scsi?

    Ronald May

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Alan Adams@21:1/5 to Ronald on Sun Dec 13 12:54:38 2020
    In message <277de1dd58.beeb@-.->
    Ronald <gettingchoppy@gmail.com> wrote:

    In message <ad97a9dd58.Alan@alan.adamshome.org.uk>
    Alan Adams <alan@adamshome.org.uk> wrote:

    In message <17a573dd58.beeb@-.->
    Ronald <gettingchoppy@gmail.com> wrote:
    <snip>
    On my Iyonix, the sata drive (previously formatted ADFS with USB
    adapter) will be found if on its own ide socket (as master), but not as
    slave to my usual ide boot drive.
    Both drives are Hitachi 2.5"

    The master-slave relationship needs the drives to be compatible. Sometimes >> they won't cooperate, for example if the master has firmware much older
    than the slave.

    <snip>
    Mmmm, the parallel ide hitachi will naturally have older firmware than
    the sata hitachi, so the combination may never work, unless there is
    firmware updates for old drives possible. Likely would be a Windows
    utility for that sort of thing.

    There's a good chance they would work the other way round, i.e. swap
    master and slave.

    If you want to boot off the slave, I think you would need "*configure
    drive 5".

    With two IDE slots, I have some flexibility, I guess the end game would likely be multiple ide/sata adapters with ssd's and or sata cd/dvd
    drives.

    I'm currently (very slowly) copying off 16GB data via USB to USB so I
    can try reformatting the sata drive.
    The slowness highlights why it would be good to use sata as an easy
    plugin drive, maybe not as convenient as USB but much better than the 40-44pin adapter and the parallel ide 2.5" connection.

    Ronald May


    --
    Alan Adams

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From David Higton@21:1/5 to Ronald on Sun Dec 13 14:12:07 2020
    In message <e271fcdd58.beeb@-.->
    Ronald <gettingchoppy@gmail.com> wrote:

    In message <17a573dd58.beeb@-.->
    Ronald <gettingchoppy@gmail.com> wrote: <snip>

    The drive previously formatted via USB is not getting recognised as being formatted, but there is a newer format utility released so won't delve
    into the reasons. Discknight fully recognised the hardware but all the files were wrong somehow.

    I'm expecting that once reformatted via the interface that it will be OK but will post again to confirm.

    <snip> OK, the sata drive formatted with (newest) hform of Oct 20 has had a 5GB docs folder written to it and it also mounts with the USB/Sata adapter.

    When hform formats through ide it suggests (and I used) 77527 cyls 16Hds
    189 sectors/track

    When hform formats though scsi(usb) it suggests (and I used last time)
    63005 cyls 61 Hds 61 sectors/track

    But this USB formatting resulted in 'has disc been formatted' when I tried
    to read it with ide/sata adapter, though it did work with USB OK.

    Obviously the best way is to always format with ide. But could it be something that needs to be fixed in Hform->Scsi?

    I was only half paying attention at the time, but there was something
    recently about recent versions of HForm using fragment ID sizes that
    old versions of RO (e.g. in the Iyonix) can't cope with.

    I apologise if this turns out not to be relevant.

    David

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  • From Ronald@21:1/5 to David Higton on Mon Dec 14 09:32:08 2020
    In message <ae633ede58.DaveMeUK@BeagleBoard-xM>
    David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:

    In message <e271fcdd58.beeb@-.->
    Ronald <gettingchoppy@gmail.com> wrote:

    In message <17a573dd58.beeb@-.->
    Ronald <gettingchoppy@gmail.com> wrote: <snip>

    The drive previously formatted via USB is not getting recognised as being formatted, but there is a newer format utility released so won't delve into the reasons. Discknight fully recognised the hardware but all the files were wrong somehow.

    I'm expecting that once reformatted via the interface that it will be OK but will post again to confirm.

    <snip> OK, the sata drive formatted with (newest) hform of Oct 20 has had a 5GB docs folder written to it and it also mounts with the USB/Sata adapter.

    When hform formats through ide it suggests (and I used) 77527 cyls 16Hds 189 sectors/track

    When hform formats though scsi(usb) it suggests (and I used last time) 63005 cyls 61 Hds 61 sectors/track

    But this USB formatting resulted in 'has disc been formatted' when I tried to read it with ide/sata adapter, though it did work with USB OK.

    Obviously the best way is to always format with ide. But could it be something that needs to be fixed in Hform->Scsi?

    I was only half paying attention at the time, but there was something recently about recent versions of HForm using fragment ID sizes that
    old versions of RO (e.g. in the Iyonix) can't cope with.

    I apologise if this turns out not to be relevant.

    David
    The issue is only to do with the hform->scsi option.
    I should rephrase the above to
    Using the suggested hform->scsi shape resulted in the drive being
    useable on the Iyonix via USB/SCSI but not when the drive was then
    connected to the Iyonix ide interface.
    I kept a copy of the DiscKnight check if it is relevant, but I think the
    SCSI formatting would need to duplicate the IDE formatting procedure to
    correct the problem.
    There may me more to it than just the shape difference?

    Ronald May

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  • From Chris Evans (CJE/4D)@21:1/5 to URL:mailto:dave@davehigton.me.uk on Mon Dec 14 13:17:06 2020
    In article <ae633ede58.DaveMeUK@BeagleBoard-xM>, David Higton <URL:mailto:dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
    In message <e271fcdd58.beeb@-.->
    Ronald <gettingchoppy@gmail.com> wrote:

    In message <17a573dd58.beeb@-.->
    Ronald <gettingchoppy@gmail.com> wrote: <snip>

    The drive previously formatted via USB is not getting recognised as being formatted, but there is a newer format utility released so won't delve into the reasons. Discknight fully recognised the hardware but all the files were wrong somehow.

    I'm expecting that once reformatted via the interface that it will be OK but will post again to confirm.

    <snip> OK, the sata drive formatted with (newest) hform of Oct 20 has had a 5GB docs folder written to it and it also mounts with the USB/Sata adapter.

    When hform formats through ide it suggests (and I used) 77527 cyls 16Hds 189 sectors/track

    When hform formats though scsi(usb) it suggests (and I used last time) 63005 cyls 61 Hds 61 sectors/track

    But this USB formatting resulted in 'has disc been formatted' when I tried to read it with ide/sata adapter, though it did work with USB OK.

    Obviously the best way is to always format with ide. But could it be something that needs to be fixed in Hform->Scsi?

    I was only half paying attention at the time, but there was something recently about recent versions of HForm using fragment ID sizes that
    old versions of RO (e.g. in the Iyonix) can't cope with.

    Druck mentioned it as possible problem, Sprow pointed out the latest copes even with RISC OS 3.1 which we have been able to confirm is o.k.

    The thread is here:https://www.riscosopen.org/forum/forums/5/topics/15945

    I apologise if this turns out not to be relevant.

    IDE to SATA interfaces seem very varied and we've seen them seem to work but then report a drive as unformatted that it had read o.k. before!


    Chris Evans

    --

    ****** IGEPv5: The fastest RISC OS computer so far! *******
    ------------ http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/igepv5 ------------
    CJE Micro's 'Raspberry Pi & RISC OS Specialists'
    Tel: +44 (0)1903 523222
    chris@cjemicros.co.uk http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
    Unit 16 Arunside Ind. Est., Fort Road, Littlehampton, W.Sussex BN17 7QU

    Don't let the urgent things in life, crowd out the important things!

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  • From Ronald@21:1/5 to chris@cjemicros.co.uk on Sat Dec 26 21:44:33 2020
    In message <ant141306345pErr@client.cjemicros.co.uk>
    "Chris Evans (CJE/4D)" <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:

    In article <ae633ede58.DaveMeUK@BeagleBoard-xM>, David Higton <URL:mailto:dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
    <snip>

    I was only half paying attention at the time, but there was something recently about recent versions of HForm using fragment ID sizes that
    old versions of RO (e.g. in the Iyonix) can't cope with.

    Druck mentioned it as possible problem, Sprow pointed out the latest copes even with RISC OS 3.1 which we have been able to confirm is o.k.

    The thread is here:https://www.riscosopen.org/forum/forums/5/topics/15945

    I apologise if this turns out not to be relevant.

    IDE to SATA interfaces seem very varied and we've seen them seem to work but then report a drive as unformatted that it had read o.k. before!


    Chris Evans


    I haven't seen any unreliability in re-reading yet.
    Having a reason to, (To let the IDE/SATA adapter have it's own IDE
    channel) I found that the sony CDROM would not write a CD as slave.
    I configured it back to master, and my boot IDE drive to slave and
    they co-exist that way OK. Also the ide drive stays at 4.

    Now the boot drive is set to slave, I tried Alan's suggestion of
    trying the IDE/SATA as master on the same IDE channel.
    The result was that the SATA drive was found but the IDE (boot) drive
    was lost, regardless wether I configured drive to 5 or not.

    It looks like these IDE/SATA adapter(s?) need their own IDE channel, but
    I haven't tried other HDD's, multiple adapters, or other types.

    Ronald May

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to Ronald on Sat Dec 26 11:04:29 2020
    Ronald <gettingchoppy@gmail.com> wrote:
    It looks like these IDE/SATA adapter(s?) need their own IDE channel, but
    I haven't tried other HDD's, multiple adapters, or other types.

    Some adapters have a master/slave jumper on them, but I wouldn't be
    surprised if it's poorly tested / not very compatible with the many devices
    out there.

    Theo

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