On 16. Sep 2021 at 08:34:34 CEST, "Martin Τrautmann" <t-usenet@gmx.net> wrote:
* Cadintosh etc. still cost money and are not worth that
price for me. So Adobe Illustrator is not in my league.
So maybe I just don't know the proper tool yet - but you do!?
Well, if you want it for free, I guess you have to write it yourself.
The next one looking for such a tool will be happy if you have written something useful.
* Cadintosh etc. still cost money and are not worth that
price for me. So Adobe Illustrator is not in my league.
So maybe I just don't know the proper tool yet - but you do!?
You could try the demo of GraphicConverter, or Gimp.
(Havent tested if they can do what you need, but both are free to try.)
Yeah, it sucks to ask for something free - but there are great free
tools. There are companies which proof with free software that they are capable to offer more advanced software which are worth to pay for. Or
they do offer outdated software for former platforms for free.
And I'd expect a free demo mode to see whether a tool actually can do
what I need it for.
There are some great tools which are good enough for many people.
I named Libreoffice before. Sketchup is (or was for some time) free,
it's great to use and it offers in 3D, what MacDraw was in 2D to me.
I could use sketchup for 2D as well - but it sucks for circles.
And it's the intersection of circles and lines what I need right now.
The level I need is as you would expect for simple pie charts. So
nothing fancy. It's surprising how difficult this task is for many apps.
And it's the intersection of circles and lines what I need right now.
The level I need is as you would expect for simple pie charts. So
nothing fancy. It's surprising how difficult this task is for many apps.
Martin ?rautmann <t-usenet@gmx.net> wrote:
And it's the intersection of circles and lines what I need right now.
The level I need is as you would expect for simple pie charts. So
nothing fancy. It's surprising how difficult this task is for many apps.
It's vast overkill, and not free, but there's a demo version
of Ashlar Graphite that might be worth a look. The demo won't
save or print, but I'd imagine you could do some sort of screen
capture once the drawing looks right.
Thanks. I just give it a try - and it feels so wrong and clumsy.
When I define a square with a size of 16x16 mm and I give it a line
width of 2 mm, it always shows the same line width on the screen,
regardless of the zoom level. I'd expect to keep the line the size it is
- but maybe that's a feature. Maybe it can be turned off?
But I defined an line width of my own at 4 mm. Ok, is shown as double
width. But when I select an object, it then shows the 4 mm when I show
the item with the 4 mm width style. But from the top menu, it is
indicated as 0.5mm width.
When I draw a square, it does draw those as four separate lines instead.
When I group those items (weirdly, the shortcut is cmd-y), I can not
resize this group from the coordinate entry.
The menus are weired, showing the same topic below multiple menus. Preferences are complicated.
Snap to grid does not work properly - the positions probably show some rounding errors when I use millimeters as units. The major lines of the
grid shifted position while zooming and moving around.
I do not find any intersect, but just some weired trim tool, which is
hard to control, what to trim. It does not trim with grouped objects?
The demo does not even permit copy/paste. So it's nice to learn about a
new app, but I don't like this one here - Autocad was easier to learn.
So you are right, it's probably too powerful for me. As an experienced
user it may be a good tool. $200 for a 1 year licence, no thanks.
Good luck in your search, please post if you find something useful.
The level I need is as you would expect for simple pie charts. So
nothing fancy. It's surprising how difficult this task is for many apps.
For your reference, records indicate that
Martin =?UTF-8?Q?=CE=A4rautmann?= <t-usenet@gmx.net> wrote:
The level I need is as you would expect for simple pie charts. So
nothing fancy. It's surprising how difficult this task is for many apps.
There are many web tools that offer that kind of graphing. No Mac-specific app necessary.
And, personally, I’d code the SVG by hand if it were a custom one-off, or write a little code if it were the kind of graphic I’d need to generate dynamically.
On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 22:02:48 -0000 (UTC), Doc O'Leary wrote:
For your reference, records indicate that
Martin =?UTF-8?Q?=CE=A4rautmann?= <t-usenet@gmx.net> wrote:
The level I need is as you would expect for simple pie charts. So
nothing fancy. It's surprising how difficult this task is for many apps.
There are many web tools that offer that kind of graphing. No Mac-specific app necessary.
Such as?
I doubt that this does actually work very well. But there are
some could tools which actually even do support the usual mac shortcuts.
And, personally, I’d code the SVG by hand if it were a custom one-off, or write a little code if it were the kind of graphic I’d need to generate dynamically.
I'm not good enough for that. I use wysiwyg instead of TeX.
For your reference, records indicate that
Martin =?UTF-8?Q?=CE=A4rautmann?= <t-usenet@gmx.net> wrote:
On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 22:02:48 -0000 (UTC), Doc O'Leary wrote:
For your reference, records indicate that
Martin =?UTF-8?Q?=CE=A4rautmann?= <t-usenet@gmx.net> wrote:
The level I need is as you would expect for simple pie charts. SoThere are many web tools that offer that kind of graphing. No Mac-specific app necessary.
nothing fancy. It's surprising how difficult this task is for many apps. >> >
Such as?
You can’t do a search for a simple pie chart tool? Here is one that Google offers:
<https://developers.google.com/chart/interactive/docs/gallery/piechart>
I doubt that this does actually work very well. But there are
some could tools which actually even do support the usual mac shortcuts.
I’m not sure why that matters so much. You have a set of numbers you want to turn into a pie chart graphic. That’s just not something that screams for a GUI much more advanced than drag and drop.
But pie charts are just an example of the
complexity and operations I need: Intersect circles with lines,
duplicate, move and group.
The example you name here is good to learn how to programme it for SVG.
But it's not a app (offline or online) to draw and manipulate it.
I want to combine it with jpg symbols and text in special fonts.
For your reference, records indicate that
Martin =?UTF-8?Q?=CE=A4rautmann?= <t-usenet@gmx.net> wrote:
But pie charts are just an example of the
complexity and operations I need: Intersect circles with lines,
duplicate, move and group.
I get that, but when you don’t detail exactly *what* output you’re looking
for, it makes it really hard for people to recommend *any* software, Mac
or otherwise, that will accomplish what you need. I mean, it isn’t even 100% clear that what you really want can (easily) be done with a vector format like SVG.
The example you name here is good to learn how to programme it for SVG.
But it's not a app (offline or online) to draw and manipulate it.
Fundamentally, there is no difference, so long as you can get the output graphic you want. Manually click-clicking around a GUI has its place, but
if your source format is some data or an algorithm, you’re much better off using a tool that lets the computer do what computers are good at, and automate the process of generating the image.
I want to combine it with jpg symbols and text in special fonts.
I’m not sure anyone knows what that truly means except you. Maybe the approach to take is to pick an app like Inkscape, or any other app, and
get started. Have a file that shows what you’ve done and helps
demonstrate what you’re shooting for. Then come back and ask question about *specific* things you’re having trouble with.
I want to draw a square.
I want to draw a circle, crossing the sqare.
I want to draw some lines, cutting the circle.
I want to cut the circle into pieces where I have crossings. I want to
move or delete those pieces.
I want to fill areas with colors or patterns.
I want to adjust line width and colors
I want to save this as jpg, gif, png or pdf
I want to paste images from png files.
On 2021-09-21, Martin Τrautmann <t-usenet@gmx.net> wrote:
I want to draw a square.
I want to draw a circle, crossing the sqare.
I want to draw some lines, cutting the circle.
I want to cut the circle into pieces where I have crossings. I want to
move or delete those pieces.
I want to fill areas with colors or patterns.
I want to adjust line width and colors
I want to save this as jpg, gif, png or pdf
I want to paste images from png files.
* Adobe Illustrator can do all of that.
* Affinity Designer can do all of that.
Both are much more complex than MacDraw, but both will do what you
describe.
On 21 Sep 2021 13:54:37 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2021-09-21, Martin Τrautmann <t-usenet@gmx.net> wrote:
I want to draw a square.
I want to draw a circle, crossing the sqare.
I want to draw some lines, cutting the circle.
I want to cut the circle into pieces where I have crossings. I want to
move or delete those pieces.
I want to fill areas with colors or patterns.
I want to adjust line width and colors
I want to save this as jpg, gif, png or pdf
I want to paste images from png files.
* Adobe Illustrator can do all of that.
23,79 €/month
They offer a free test version, but first they want my CC number. No
thanks.
* Affinity Designer can do all of that.
54,99 €
Both are much more complex than MacDraw, but both will do what you
describe.
I just gave it a try. Editing of size and position could be done
easily - Inkscape 0.9 can't do that.
But I did not manage yet how to intersect objects. The behavior of
Geometry > Intersect or divide is actually not what I would expect. So
the cutting to pieces does not work that easy as I would have thought. Probably I will have to find out how to get it done.
I can remove points on the objects, but I can't remove the lines in
between yet. You know how to do this?
But I did not manage yet how to intersect objects. The behavior of
Geometry > Intersect or divide is actually not what I would expect. So
the cutting to pieces does not work that easy as I would have thought.
Probably I will have to find out how to get it done.
I can remove points on the objects, but I can't remove the lines in
between yet. You know how to do this?
With Affinity Designer, you'll probably have to use a combination of
other features like Geometry > Subtract and Node > Break Curve & Close
Curve to do what you want. It's almost certainly not going to work
exactly like it does in Illustrator.
On 21 Sep 2021 22:05:25 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:
But I did not manage yet how to intersect objects. The behavior of
Geometry > Intersect or divide is actually not what I would expect.
So the cutting to pieces does not work that easy as I would have
thought. Probably I will have to find out how to get it done.
I can remove points on the objects, but I can't remove the lines in
between yet. You know how to do this?
With Affinity Designer, you'll probably have to use a combination of
other features like Geometry > Subtract and Node > Break Curve &
Close Curve to do what you want. It's almost certainly not going to
work exactly like it does in Illustrator.
I'll give it try. But it seems to be much less intuitive than in other applications.
I want to draw a square.
I want to draw a circle, crossing the sqare.
I want to draw some lines, cutting the circle.
I want to cut the circle into pieces where I have crossings. I want to
move or delete those pieces.
I want to fill areas with colors or patterns.
I want to adjust line width and colors
I want to save this as jpg, gif, png or pdf
I want to paste images from png files.
If I'd want to convert data to graphics automatically, I'd propably use something like gnuplot.
But the data I got is e.g. a pie chart with 18%, 20%, 45 %. I'd convert
this to degrees, draw a line, duplicate and rotate that line by the
proper degree, from the center of a circle. Then I'd cut the circle to
pizza segments.
It's really nothing fancy - put cut
and split is not that easy in the tools I've checked by now.
Inkscape was ok, more or less. But Inkscape 1.1 does not run on MacOS
10.10. 1.02 requires 10.11. 0.9.2 is not an actual MacOS version, but
X11. Usable, but ugly.
I want to cut the circle into pieces where I have crossings. I want to
move or delete those pieces.
This is beyond the ability of MacDraw, to the best of my recollection of
that app. What perhaps you mean instead is that you wanted to draw some
pie pieces that could fit together to make a circle. Easily done with
<path> elements, but you still have to supply the specific numbers you’re looking to draw.
I want to fill areas with colors or patterns.
I want to adjust line width and colors
I want to save this as jpg, gif, png or pdf
Nothing is stopping you from doing those things.
<image width="192" height="192" x="17" y="6" xlink:href="your_file.png”/>
If I'd want to convert data to graphics automatically, I'd propably use
something like gnuplot.
Then I’m not sure why you don’t do that, or use any number of readily available tools.
Why? All that manual busy work in a GUI app just doesn’t make much sense. I’d much rather find a way to give the computer the numbers and let *it* do that tedious stuff.
If you’re expecting someone to write a Mac-specific app to do those
things, you have to make a better case than you’ve done here.
You are right that MacDraw did not support to cut crossings. But it
supported very well to draw circle arcs as part of a cicle.
Those web apps stop me as long as they do not support those operations.
Because I do use gnuplot for those purposes where it is appropriate. The MacDraw like operation isn't.
Because it would take much more time to teach the computer what I want instead of do it manually myself.
My hope was that someone already knew the app which would do this job properly. Libreoffice is actually pretty good for simple drawings - but
it just can not do yet what I'm looking for.
I'd expect for current tools to be even better than those ancient ones.
But actually their focus seems to have shifted, from some simple manual operations to something better (?) which I do not need.
But they do. You’re just not bothering to try them, or willing to use
the SVG generated as a template. What’s the big problem with changing `stroke-width="4"` to `stroke-width="7"`, for example?
You have yet to give an operation that *was* done by MacDraw that isn’t supported by SVG.
Vote with your wallet. If the current Apple ecosystem is not to your
liking any longer, explore outside it. I very much like the Raspberry Pi platform, because it reminds me a lot of the educational/hobbiest Apple
of my youth. Inkscape is an easy install there, and you could get to click-click-click creating a custom pie chart in minutes.
I want to draw a square.
I want to draw a circle, crossing the sqare.
I want to draw some lines, cutting the circle.
I want to cut the circle into pieces where I have crossings. I want to
move or delete those pieces.
I want to fill areas with colors or patterns.
I want to adjust line width and colors
I want to save this as jpg, gif, png or pdf
I want to paste images from png files.
If I'd want to convert data to graphics automatically, I'd propably
use something like gnuplot.
But the data I got is e.g. a pie chart with 18%, 20%, 45 %. I'd
convert this to degrees, draw a line, duplicate and rotate that line
by the proper degree, from the center of a circle. Then I'd cut the
circle to pizza segments.
I'll group and push a certain pizza segment I need outwards. I'd
duplicate the pizza segment downwards, Add two lines and make it to a
3d pie segment. Then I'd add some text where it does look best.
Those are really simple gui operations which are done within a few
minuts, when you have a proper tool. It's really nothing fancy - put
cut and split is not that easy in the tools I've checked by now.
On 2021-09-21, Martin Τrautmann <t-usenet@gmx.net> wrote:
I want to draw a square.
I want to draw a circle, crossing the sqare.
I want to draw some lines, cutting the circle.
I want to cut the circle into pieces where I have crossings. I want to
move or delete those pieces.
I want to fill areas with colors or patterns.
I want to adjust line width and colors
I want to save this as jpg, gif, png or pdf
I want to paste images from png files.
Again, any illustration app can do all of this. It's just a matter of learning how to use the app in question.
If I'd want to convert data to graphics automatically, I'd propably
use something like gnuplot.
I'd just use the graph capability of a spreadsheet for that, as it's the fastest and simplest way to do it.
But the data I got is e.g. a pie chart with 18%, 20%, 45 %. I'd
convert this to degrees, draw a line, duplicate and rotate that line
by the proper degree, from the center of a circle. Then I'd cut the
circle to pizza segments.
That sounds like a lot of work just to create a pie chart.
I'll group and push a certain pizza segment I need outwards. I'd
duplicate the pizza segment downwards, Add two lines and make it to a
3d pie segment. Then I'd add some text where it does look best.
Those are really simple gui operations which are done within a few
minuts, when you have a proper tool. It's really nothing fancy - put
cut and split is not that easy in the tools I've checked by now.
Designer can do all o this quite effortlessly as well.
On 27 Sep 2021 18:40:01 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2021-09-21, Martin Τrautmann <t-usenet@gmx.net> wrote:
I want to draw a square.
I want to draw a circle, crossing the sqare.
I want to draw some lines, cutting the circle.
I want to cut the circle into pieces where I have crossings. I want to
move or delete those pieces.
I want to fill areas with colors or patterns.
I want to adjust line width and colors
I want to save this as jpg, gif, png or pdf
I want to paste images from png files.
Again, any illustration app can do all of this. It's just a matter of
learning how to use the app in question.
You might be surprised how much from an "obvious" solution some
applications do handle those tasks.
Personally, I was surprised by one app which offered to draw squares,
which ended up in four separate lines. Ok, you could group thos four
lines to a single object. But you could not handle this object like
you could handle a real square.
Designer can do all o this quite effortlessly as well.
How about a contest. I'll draw a sample image with sketchup to show
you what I want to get done. The others show how they would have done
it and how complicated it was - or how far they come, until the job is
not supported by the tool any more.
I'll use sketchup since it is a free tool which is very easy to use,
although it is a 3D tool and does not handle circles very well. It
does not support to define a line width, so I will have to create the
width with inner and outer lines and fill it.
Who would join this comparison, with which tool?
On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 16:28:04 -0000 (UTC), Doc O'Leary wrote:
But they do. You’re just not bothering to try them, or willing to use the SVG generated as a template. What’s the big problem with changing `stroke-width="4"` to `stroke-width="7"`, for example?
Because I use a Mac which is famous for graphical, intuitive usage.
You have yet to give an operation that *was* done by MacDraw that isn’t supported by SVG.
Pattern filling for grouped objects?
I could not get the job done with inkscape 0.92.2. Please feel free to
create a sample file to show me how you did it.
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