• FileMaker Archaeology

    From Nelson@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 14 14:00:24 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    I posted this in comp.databases.filemaker but that group gets even less
    traffic than this one (if possible).

    I have been using FieMaker since before Claris bought it. I now find
    I'd like to go back and retrieve data stored in some of those older
    databases. My current version (12) refuses to open the older
    databases, even, to my mind, some relatively recent ones (ca 2009).

    Is anyone aware of a table showing which database versions can be
    opened by which FileMaker versions and which Mac OS's are required to
    run those versions? I know I am probably going to have to go back to
    at least OS 8.5.

    Better, is there some freeware somewhere which can open these things?

    I have the same problem with Word and Excel documents, but that's
    another newsgroup :)

    What good is digitizing all your data if the technology to read it
    disappears? I should have used papyrus.

    --
    Nelson

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  • From Jolly Roger@21:1/5 to Nelson on Mon Dec 14 19:23:44 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    On 2015-12-14, Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:
    I posted this in comp.databases.filemaker but that group gets even less traffic than this one (if possible).

    I have been using FieMaker since before Claris bought it. I now find
    I'd like to go back and retrieve data stored in some of those older databases. My current version (12) refuses to open the older
    databases, even, to my mind, some relatively recent ones (ca 2009).

    Is anyone aware of a table showing which database versions can be
    opened by which FileMaker versions and which Mac OS's are required to
    run those versions? I know I am probably going to have to go back to
    at least OS 8.5.

    Better, is there some freeware somewhere which can open these things?

    I have the same problem with Word and Excel documents, but that's
    another newsgroup :)

    What good is digitizing all your data if the technology to read it disappears? I should have used papyrus.

    You might try running the older versions of FileMaker in a VM or
    emulator...

    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR

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  • From android@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 14 20:42:53 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    On 2015-12-14, Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:
    I posted this in comp.databases.filemaker but that group gets even less traffic than this one (if possible).

    I have been using FieMaker since before Claris bought it. I now find
    I'd like to go back and retrieve data stored in some of those older databases. My current version (12) refuses to open the older
    databases, even, to my mind, some relatively recent ones (ca 2009).

    Is anyone aware of a table showing which database versions can be
    opened by which FileMaker versions and which Mac OS's are required to
    run those versions? I know I am probably going to have to go back to
    at least OS 8.5.

    Better, is there some freeware somewhere which can open these things?

    I have the same problem with Word and Excel documents, but that's
    another newsgroup :)

    You could try Open Office or Libre Office for legacy MS Office files...

    What good is digitizing all your data if the technology to read it disappears? I should have used papyrus.
    --
    teleportation kills

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  • From JF Mezei@21:1/5 to Nelson on Mon Dec 14 15:02:05 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    On 2015-12-14 14:00, Nelson wrote:

    I have been using FieMaker since before Claris bought it. I now find
    I'd like to go back and retrieve data stored in some of those older databases.


    I went through a similar exercise, trying to convert I think it was
    Cricketraw or other old Apple stuff to postscript of something usable.

    Basically: install Sheepshaver to run MacOS in emulation.

    Then hunt the internet for binaries of the application you miss.

    You are likely to get a .SIT or other archive format. It may or may not
    be a issue to move the .SIT to the MacOS drive because the file you have
    saved on OS-X disk does not have the tradictional MacOS resources, you
    may need to add them manually with res-edit.

    You then install and run the old version, extract your data to usable
    format. (Sheepshaver allows the MacOS to access the "Unix disk" as a
    local disk, and you map that disk to a directory on your OS-X disk.

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  • From ErikRS@21:1/5 to Jolly Roger on Mon Dec 14 21:06:34 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    Jolly Roger wrote:
    On 2015-12-14, Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:
    I posted this in comp.databases.filemaker but that group gets even less
    traffic than this one (if possible).

    I have been using FieMaker since before Claris bought it. I now find
    I'd like to go back and retrieve data stored in some of those older
    databases. My current version (12) refuses to open the older
    databases, even, to my mind, some relatively recent ones (ca 2009).

    Is anyone aware of a table showing which database versions can be
    opened by which FileMaker versions and which Mac OS's are required to
    run those versions? I know I am probably going to have to go back to
    at least OS 8.5.

    Better, is there some freeware somewhere which can open these things?

    I have the same problem with Word and Excel documents, but that's
    another newsgroup :)

    What good is digitizing all your data if the technology to read it
    disappears? I should have used papyrus.

    You might try running the older versions of FileMaker in a VM or
    emulator...

    If I recall right the backward compatibility for opening / converting is
    as this.
    - FM/FMP pre v.2.0v3 kan be opened in FMP 2.x, 3.x and 4.x
    - FMP 2.1.x can be opened in FMP 3.x, 4.x and 4.5.x
    - FMP 3.x and 4.x can be opened in FMP 4.x, 5.x and 5.5.x
    - FMP 4.x and 5.x can be opened in FMP 5.x and 6.x
    - FMP 5.x and 5.5.x can be opened in FMP 5.5.x and 6.x
    - FMP 6.x and 7.x can be opened in FMP 7.x, 8.x and 9.x
    - FMP 7.x can be opened in any newer version including latest version.

    If there aren't too many relations and cross-references versions from
    0.9 to 6.x can be opended in BBedit Lite 6.1.3 Classic or OS X version. Unfortunately BBedit Lite 6.1.3 stopped working with the arrival of OS X 10.5.x.

    All FM/FMP databases can be opened as text-only in the full BBedit to be
    saved either as 'Tab-Deliminated-Text' (= Tab Separarated Text) or
    'Plain Text'.

    NOTE. All relations and cross-references will be saved as 'text-only paragraphs' in text documents.
    NOTE2. If a database is password protected hte password is stripped out
    by default. This /may/ give some problems since a FMP password is
    'hidden' somewhere inside the database to avoid hacking. This means that
    the password is a part of a text-line, a date & time stamp, the code for
    a frame etc..

    Also MacLinkPlus 15.x OS X ver. can convert many FM/FMP databases to ' Tab-Deliminated-Text' or 'Plain Text'. But here I'm not sure which FMP versions are supported newer than v.6.x.x.

    Cheers, Erik Richard

    --
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Erik Richard SÝrensen <mac-daneRE@MOVEstofanet.dk>
    NisusWriter - The Future In Multilingual Text Processing - www.nisus.com Openoffice.org - The Modern Productivity Solution - www.openoffice.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Lewis@21:1/5 to Nelson on Tue Dec 15 00:51:15 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    In message <0001HW.D2947BF80002EDACB01029BF@news.astraweb.com>
    Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:
    I posted this in comp.databases.filemaker but that group gets even less traffic than this one (if possible).

    I have been using FieMaker since before Claris bought it.

    Claris did not buy Filemaker.

    I now find I'd like to go back and retrieve data stored in some of
    those older databases. My current version (12) refuses to open the
    older databases, even, to my mind, some relatively recent ones (ca
    2009).

    Have you contacted Filemaker, Inc?

    Is anyone aware of a table showing which database versions can be
    opened by which FileMaker versions and which Mac OS's are required to
    run those versions? I know I am probably going to have to go back to
    at least OS 8.5.

    Mac OS 8.5 is 20 years old.

    --
    'How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice 'You must be' said the Cat 'or you wouldn't have come here.'

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  • From David Empson@21:1/5 to ErikRS on Tue Dec 15 11:28:56 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> wrote:

    Jolly Roger wrote:
    On 2015-12-14, Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:
    I posted this in comp.databases.filemaker but that group gets even less
    traffic than this one (if possible).

    I have been using FieMaker since before Claris bought it. I now find
    I'd like to go back and retrieve data stored in some of those older
    databases. My current version (12) refuses to open the older
    databases, even, to my mind, some relatively recent ones (ca 2009).

    Is anyone aware of a table showing which database versions can be
    opened by which FileMaker versions and which Mac OS's are required to
    run those versions? I know I am probably going to have to go back to
    at least OS 8.5.

    Better, is there some freeware somewhere which can open these things?

    I have the same problem with Word and Excel documents, but that's
    another newsgroup :)

    What good is digitizing all your data if the technology to read it
    disappears? I should have used papyrus.

    You might try running the older versions of FileMaker in a VM or emulator...

    If I recall right the backward compatibility for opening / converting is
    as this.

    Rather loose, and obscuring details about file format changes.

    - FM/FMP pre v.2.0v3 kan be opened in FMP 2.x, 3.x and 4.x
    - FMP 2.1.x can be opened in FMP 3.x, 4.x and 4.5.x
    - FMP 3.x and 4.x can be opened in FMP 4.x, 5.x and 5.5.x
    - FMP 4.x and 5.x can be opened in FMP 5.x and 6.x
    - FMP 5.x and 5.5.x can be opened in FMP 5.5.x and 6.x
    - FMP 6.x and 7.x can be opened in FMP 7.x, 8.x and 9.x
    - FMP 7.x can be opened in any newer version including latest version.

    I have no direct experience with versions prior to FileMaker Pro 3, but
    based on evidence of what later versions will convert, FileMaker Pro 2
    and 3 had different file formats.

    FileMaker II, Pro 1 and Pro 2 files can be converted by FileMaker Pro 3
    through 6 (according to FileMaker Inc., and the manual for Pro 6
    mentions Pro 1 and 2 as import options).

    FileMaker Pro 3 and 4 have the same file format (.fp3 is the recommended extension). These files can be converted by FileMaker Pro 5 through 11.

    FileMaker Pro 5 and 6 have the same file format (.fp5 is the recommended extension). These files can be converted by FileMaker Pro 7 through 11.

    FileMaker Pro 7 through 11 have the same file format (.fp7 is the
    standard extension). These files can be converted by FileMaker Pro 12 or
    later.

    FileMaker Pro 12 and later (up to 14 so far) have the same file format
    (.fmp12 is the standard extension).

    Within each file format, the individual versions added features, and
    those features don't work in earlier versions. As a rule of thumb, if
    you avoid new features, databases saved by newer versions within the
    same group can still be used with older versions within the same group,
    but it is recommended that you don't use older versions once a database
    has been used with a newer version.

    If there aren't too many relations and cross-references versions from
    0.9 to 6.x can be opended in BBedit Lite 6.1.3 Classic or OS X version. Unfortunately BBedit Lite 6.1.3 stopped working with the arrival of OS X 10.5.x.

    All FM/FMP databases can be opened as text-only in the full BBedit to be saved either as 'Tab-Deliminated-Text' (= Tab Separarated Text) or
    'Plain Text'.

    Only in your alternate universe. FileMaker Pro databases are not text
    files. Text in fields inside the database might extractable by loading
    them into a plain text editor like BBEdit, but the files contain a lot
    of binary structure which can't easily be cleaned out by a text editor.

    (Yes, I checked, using simple single file/table databases in .fp3, .fp5
    and .fp7 format.)

    NOTE. All relations and cross-references will be saved as 'text-only paragraphs' in text documents.
    NOTE2. If a database is password protected hte password is stripped out
    by default. This /may/ give some problems since a FMP password is
    'hidden' somewhere inside the database to avoid hacking. This means that
    the password is a part of a text-line, a date & time stamp, the code for
    a frame etc..

    Also MacLinkPlus 15.x OS X ver. can convert many FM/FMP databases to ' Tab-Deliminated-Text' or 'Plain Text'. But here I'm not sure which FMP versions are supported newer than v.6.x.x.

    I can't verify that as I don't have version 15, but versions 13 and 16
    don't mention FileMaker Pro as a supported file format, so it seems
    likely that this claim about version 15 is also wrong.

    --
    David Empson
    dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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  • From nospam@21:1/5 to g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies on Mon Dec 14 20:05:05 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    In article <slrnn6up4p.jp5.g.kreme@amelia.local>, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

    I posted this in comp.databases.filemaker but that group gets even less traffic than this one (if possible).

    I have been using FieMaker since before Claris bought it.

    Claris did not buy Filemaker.

    yes they did, from nashoba systems

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lewis@21:1/5 to nospam on Tue Dec 15 04:23:12 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    In message <141220152005056968%nospam@nospam.invalid>
    nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
    In article <slrnn6up4p.jp5.g.kreme@amelia.local>, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

    I posted this in comp.databases.filemaker but that group gets even less
    traffic than this one (if possible).

    I have been using FieMaker since before Claris bought it.

    Claris did not buy Filemaker.

    yes they did, from nashoba systems

    You are grossly misinformed.

    --
    This is our music from the bachelor's den, the sound of loneliness
    turned up to ten. A harsh soundtrack from a stagnant waterbed and it
    sounds just like this. This is the sound of someone losing the plot
    making out that they're OK when they're not. You're gonna like it, but
    not a lot. And the chorus goes like this...

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  • From nospam@21:1/5 to g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies on Mon Dec 14 23:45:58 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    In article <slrnn6v5i6.mlq.g.kreme@amelia.local>, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

    I posted this in comp.databases.filemaker but that group gets even less >> > traffic than this one (if possible).

    I have been using FieMaker since before Claris bought it.

    Claris did not buy Filemaker.

    yes they did, from nashoba systems

    You are grossly misinformed.

    you're grossly ignorant.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claris#Creation>
    In 1988, Claris purchased FileMaker from Nashoba Systems and quickly
    released a rebranded version called FileMaker II. In the meantime,
    development began on major overhauls of their entire product line,
    including FileMaker. Each of these would be eventually released as
    part of the Pro series of products.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FileMaker>

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  • From ErikRS@21:1/5 to David Empson on Tue Dec 15 02:19:04 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    David Empson wrote:
    FileMaker II, Pro 1 and Pro 2 files can be converted by FileMaker Pro 3 through 6 (according to FileMaker Inc., and the manual for Pro 6
    mentions Pro 1 and 2 as import options).

    FileMaker Pro 3 and 4 have the same file format (.fp3 is the recommended extension). These files can be converted by FileMaker Pro 5 through 11.

    FileMaker Pro 5 and 6 have the same file format (.fp5 is the recommended extension). These files can be converted by FileMaker Pro 7 through 11.

    FileMaker Pro 7 through 11 have the same file format (.fp7 is the
    standard extension). These files can be converted by FileMaker Pro 12 or later.

    FileMaker Pro 12 and later (up to 14 so far) have the same file format (.fmp12 is the standard extension).

    Within each file format, the individual versions added features, and
    those features don't work in earlier versions. As a rule of thumb, if
    you avoid new features, databases saved by newer versions within the
    same group can still be used with older versions within the same group,
    but it is recommended that you don't use older versions once a database
    has been used with a newer version.

    If it is as you write it isn't the first time that the FMSupport isn't
    quite right. I've too many times had to contact our local FMSupport to
    get some help and/or clearifications to their websites.

    And I find it very strange that I haven't been able to open and convert elseway than using various apps as I write it. I have been using
    Filemaker from FM II and FMP 2.0 and up to ver. 11.x which is my latest.

    All FM/FMP databases can be opened as text-only in the full BBedit to be
    saved either as 'Tab-Deliminated-Text' (= Tab Separarated Text) or
    'Plain Text'.

    Only in your alternate universe. FileMaker Pro databases are not text
    files. Text in fields inside the database might extractable by loading
    them into a plain text editor like BBEdit, but the files contain a lot
    of binary structure which can't easily be cleaned out by a text editor.

    (Yes, I checked, using simple single file/table databases in .fp3, .fp5
    and .fp7 format.)

    I didnot mention anything about retaining /any/ kind of formattings. But
    you're right it takes quite a lot of time to strip out formatting codes
    etc..

    Also MacLinkPlus 15.x OS X ver. can convert many FM/FMP databases to '
    Tab-Deliminated-Text' or 'Plain Text'. But here I'm not sure which FMP
    versions are supported newer than v.6.x.x.

    I can't verify that as I don't have version 15, but versions 13 and 16
    don't mention FileMaker Pro as a supported file format, so it seems
    likely that this claim about version 15 is also wrong.

    I can only tell that I used MLP 15 to open a +600mb hudge database and
    could see and copy content, but not /convert/ to a usable database
    format. So I gave up and opened it instead in BBedit and copued the
    parts that the owner needed here and now... It was vital data which a
    doctor needed for a surgery. - He got the data for the case and was
    satisfied.

    Cheers, Erik Richard

    --
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Erik Richard SÝrensen <mac-daneRE@MOVEstofanet.dk>
    NisusWriter - The Future In Multilingual Text Processing - www.nisus.com Openoffice.org - The Modern Productivity Solution - www.openoffice.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Empson@21:1/5 to ErikRS on Tue Dec 15 15:15:02 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> wrote:

    David Empson wrote:
    FileMaker II, Pro 1 and Pro 2 files can be converted by FileMaker Pro 3 through 6 (according to FileMaker Inc., and the manual for Pro 6
    mentions Pro 1 and 2 as import options).

    FileMaker Pro 3 and 4 have the same file format (.fp3 is the recommended extension). These files can be converted by FileMaker Pro 5 through 11.

    FileMaker Pro 5 and 6 have the same file format (.fp5 is the recommended extension). These files can be converted by FileMaker Pro 7 through 11.

    FileMaker Pro 7 through 11 have the same file format (.fp7 is the
    standard extension). These files can be converted by FileMaker Pro 12 or later.

    FileMaker Pro 12 and later (up to 14 so far) have the same file format (.fmp12 is the standard extension).

    Within each file format, the individual versions added features, and
    those features don't work in earlier versions. As a rule of thumb, if
    you avoid new features, databases saved by newer versions within the
    same group can still be used with older versions within the same group,
    but it is recommended that you don't use older versions once a database
    has been used with a newer version.

    If it is as you write it isn't the first time that the FMSupport isn't
    quite right.

    I can't confirm FileMaker Inc.'s claims about FileMaker II and FileMaker
    Pro 1.0 files as I've never encountered them. I have converted FileMaker
    Pro 2.0 files using FileMaker Pro 6.0, which disagrees with your list
    but matches what FileMaker Inc. says, so I'm inclined to believe them.

    Everything after that is based on personal experience (backed by documentation), as I've used almost every version from Pro 3 to Pro 14
    (I don't think I've used 4.1, and skipped 8.0 and 8.5 for personal use
    but have used them elsewhere).

    I've too many times had to contact our local FMSupport to
    get some help and/or clearifications to their websites.

    And I find it very strange that I haven't been able to open and convert elseway than using various apps as I write it. I have been using
    Filemaker from FM II and FMP 2.0 and up to ver. 11.x which is my latest.

    I have used version 11 to convert files from versions 3/4 and 5/6. Works
    just as well as when I did the same conversions back in version 7.

    All FM/FMP databases can be opened as text-only in the full BBedit to be >> saved either as 'Tab-Deliminated-Text' (= Tab Separarated Text) or
    'Plain Text'.

    Only in your alternate universe. FileMaker Pro databases are not text files. Text in fields inside the database might extractable by loading
    them into a plain text editor like BBEdit, but the files contain a lot
    of binary structure which can't easily be cleaned out by a text editor.

    (Yes, I checked, using simple single file/table databases in .fp3, .fp5
    and .fp7 format.)

    I didnot mention anything about retaining /any/ kind of formattings. But you're right it takes quite a lot of time to strip out formatting codes
    etc..

    I wasn't talking about formatted text in the database (which would be
    even harder to deal with).

    Using a text editor to extract data from a FileMaker database is
    completely impractical.

    For version 3 and 5 files: text in fields overlaps parts of older
    versions of the field, making it hard to identify where the latest
    version ends. Number and date fields are not stored in text form - they
    would require converting the binary representation.

    Version 7 files contain nothing identifiable as text from the database
    content. Nothing useful can be copied out with a text editor. (The only
    text I could find was XML containing printer setings.)

    Also MacLinkPlus 15.x OS X ver. can convert many FM/FMP databases to '
    Tab-Deliminated-Text' or 'Plain Text'. But here I'm not sure which FMP
    versions are supported newer than v.6.x.x.

    I can't verify that as I don't have version 15, but versions 13 and 16 don't mention FileMaker Pro as a supported file format, so it seems
    likely that this claim about version 15 is also wrong.

    I can only tell that I used MLP 15 to open a +600mb hudge database and
    could see and copy content, but not /convert/ to a usable database
    format. So I gave up and opened it instead in BBedit and copued the
    parts that the owner needed here and now... It was vital data which a
    doctor needed for a surgery. - He got the data for the case and was satisfied.

    I tried opening simple FileMaker Pro 5-6 and 7-11 databases in MLP 16.
    It recognised that the file was a FileMaker Pro database but would not
    let me translate it, nor do anything with it other than open a window
    with a line or two of text which had nothing to do with the database
    content (one was a FileMaker copyright message).

    I don't know what you did, but I highly doubt you translated a FileMaker
    Pro database using MLP 15. You might have exported a database from
    FileMaker Pro in a different file format, then translated the resulting
    output file into a different format using MLP.

    --
    David Empson
    dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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  • From David Empson@21:1/5 to Lewis on Tue Dec 15 17:52:03 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

    In message <141220152005056968%nospam@nospam.invalid>
    nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
    In article <slrnn6up4p.jp5.g.kreme@amelia.local>, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

    I posted this in comp.databases.filemaker but that group gets even less >> > traffic than this one (if possible).

    I have been using FieMaker since before Claris bought it.

    Claris did not buy Filemaker.

    yes they did, from nashoba systems

    You are grossly misinformed.

    Not evidence, I know, but read the Wikipedia page.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FileMaker

    Apparently there is some debate about the details, but the key point is
    that versions prior to FileMaker II were written by Nashoba Systems,
    originally starting as an MS-DOS database called "Nutshell", then ported
    to a Mac-only product called "FileMaker".

    When Claris was founded (1988), it bought FileMaker (at that point
    version 4) from Nashoba, and renamed it FileMaker II. FileMaker Pro 1.0
    came in 1990.

    Claris was renamed to FileMaker Inc. in 1998, when the other Claris
    products were dropped or moved to Apple (e.g. ClarisWorks 5 became
    AppleWorks 5).

    --
    David Empson
    dempson@actrix.gen.nz

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Alan Baker@21:1/5 to Lewis on Mon Dec 14 21:49:04 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    On 12/14/15 8:23 PM, Lewis wrote:
    In message <141220152005056968%nospam@nospam.invalid>
    nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
    In article <slrnn6up4p.jp5.g.kreme@amelia.local>, Lewis
    <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

    I posted this in comp.databases.filemaker but that group gets even less >>>> traffic than this one (if possible).

    I have been using FieMaker since before Claris bought it.

    Claris did not buy Filemaker.

    yes they did, from nashoba systems

    You are grossly misinformed.


    He's not actually.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Empson@21:1/5 to David Empson on Tue Dec 15 18:48:59 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:

    Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

    In message <141220152005056968%nospam@nospam.invalid>
    nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
    In article <slrnn6up4p.jp5.g.kreme@amelia.local>, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

    I posted this in comp.databases.filemaker but that group gets even less
    traffic than this one (if possible).

    I have been using FieMaker since before Claris bought it.

    Claris did not buy Filemaker.

    yes they did, from nashoba systems

    You are grossly misinformed.

    Not evidence, I know, but read the Wikipedia page.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FileMaker

    Apparently there is some debate about the details, but the key point is
    that versions prior to FileMaker II were written by Nashoba Systems, originally starting as an MS-DOS database called "Nutshell", then ported
    to a Mac-only product called "FileMaker".

    When Claris was founded (1988), it bought FileMaker (at that point
    version 4) from Nashoba, and renamed it FileMaker II. FileMaker Pro 1.0
    came in 1990.

    Claris was renamed to FileMaker Inc. in 1998, when the other Claris
    products were dropped or moved to Apple (e.g. ClarisWorks 5 became
    AppleWorks 5).

    Here is a more detailed version, based on an interview with one of the
    original authors of FileMaker. Unfortunately the web page no longer
    exists, but the Internet Archive has it.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20150701061050/http://www.dancing-data.com/filemakerhist.html

    This article disagrees with Wikipedia on a few points, e.g. it says
    Nashoba (via Forethought) released something called FileMaker II around
    the time the Macintosh II was introduced (early 1987), and FileMaker 4
    was the latest version when Claris bought the product.

    There is plenty of evidence that Claris did release something called
    "FileMaker II", e.g. Google Groups history searches of postings in the
    1988 to 1990 era.

    This post references Claris buying Nashoba and acquiring FileMaker 4.

    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/comp.sys.mac/nashoba/comp.sys.mac/iSIPr2BYKWQ/1Ch7-rSayC8J

    I also found an earlier post mentioning FileMaker 4 as a new version
    from Nashoba, referencing FileMaker Plus as its predecessor. It looks
    like the dancing-data article has the history of the "FileMaker II" name
    wrong, and Wikipedia has it right (it was the first Claris branded
    version).

    I also found this page, which pointed me to the dancing-data page.

    https://www.briandunning.com/browse/browse0399.shtml

    --
    David Empson
    dempson@actrix.gen.nz

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lewis@21:1/5 to nospam on Tue Dec 15 15:18:31 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    In message <141220152345582156%nospam@nospam.invalid>
    nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
    In article <slrnn6v5i6.mlq.g.kreme@amelia.local>, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

    I posted this in comp.databases.filemaker but that group gets even less >> >> > traffic than this one (if possible).

    I have been using FieMaker since before Claris bought it.

    Claris did not buy Filemaker.

    yes they did, from nashoba systems

    You are grossly misinformed.

    you're grossly ignorant.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claris#Creation>
    In 1988, Claris purchased FileMaker from Nashoba Systems and quickly

    Claris could not buy anything, being a wholly owned subsidiary of Apple.
    Apple bought FileMaker and assigned it to Claris.


    --
    'And I promise you this,' he [Carrot] shouted, 'if we succeed, no-one
    will remember. And if we fail, no one will forget!'

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Nelson@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 15 13:18:37 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 14:00:24 -0500, Nelson wrote
    (in article <0001HW.D2947BF80002EDACB01029BF@news.astraweb.com>):

    [snip]

    Thanks to everyone who responded. There is some really helpful
    information here. And the usual arguments about minutiae :)

    --
    Nelson

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From nospam@21:1/5 to g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies on Tue Dec 15 10:59:20 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    In article <slrnn70buu.o07.g.kreme@amelia.local>, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

    I posted this in comp.databases.filemaker but that group gets even
    less traffic than this one (if possible).

    I have been using FieMaker since before Claris bought it.

    Claris did not buy Filemaker.

    yes they did, from nashoba systems

    You are grossly misinformed.

    you're grossly ignorant.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claris#Creation>
    In 1988, Claris purchased FileMaker from Nashoba Systems and quickly

    Claris could not buy anything, being a wholly owned subsidiary of Apple. Apple bought FileMaker and assigned it to Claris.

    nonsense, but even if that were true, filemaker was still bought.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lewis@21:1/5 to nospam on Tue Dec 15 18:32:37 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    In message <151220151059208787%nospam@nospam.invalid>
    nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
    In article <slrnn70buu.o07.g.kreme@amelia.local>, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

    I posted this in comp.databases.filemaker but that group gets even >> >> >> > less traffic than this one (if possible).

    I have been using FieMaker since before Claris bought it.

    Claris did not buy Filemaker.

    yes they did, from nashoba systems

    You are grossly misinformed.

    you're grossly ignorant.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claris#Creation>
    In 1988, Claris purchased FileMaker from Nashoba Systems and quickly

    Claris could not buy anything, being a wholly owned subsidiary of Apple.
    Apple bought FileMaker and assigned it to Claris.

    nonsense,

    Not at all. In fact, the purchase of FileMaker and the spinning out of
    Claris were nearly synchronous events. Without the purchase of FileMaker
    Claris would never have been spunout because the whole reason for
    creating Claris was to continue to sell FileMaker to PC users.

    but even if that were true, filemaker was still bought.

    Not the point at all. But thanks for playing.


    --
    "It's unacceptable to think" - George W Bush 15/Sep/2006

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul Magnussen@21:1/5 to Nelson on Tue Dec 15 11:38:09 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    Nelson wrote:

    I have been using FieMaker since before Claris bought it. I now find
    I'd like to go back and retrieve data stored in some of those older databases. My current version (12) refuses to open the older
    databases, even, to my mind, some relatively recent ones (ca 2009).

    I still have the Filemaker 4 thru 5 disks, and a G3 to run them on

    Assuming your fies aren't confidential (and are of e-mailalble size),
    I'd be happy to convert them (assuming I can) and send them back to you.

    (I may even still backups of FM Pro 1 and FM 2, but I'm not sure they'll
    run on my G3 with 9.1)

    I have the same problem with Word and Excel documents, but that's
    another newsgroup :)

    I may have Excel 2, 4 & 5, if they haven't been thrown out.

    What good is digitizing all your data if the technology to read it disappears? I should have used papyrus.

    I couldn't agree more.

    Paul Magnussen

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From nospam@21:1/5 to g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies on Tue Dec 15 16:32:29 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    In article <slrnn70nar.qqg.g.kreme@amelia.local>, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

    I posted this in comp.databases.filemaker but that group gets even >> >> >> > less traffic than this one (if possible).

    I have been using FieMaker since before Claris bought it.

    Claris did not buy Filemaker.

    yes they did, from nashoba systems

    You are grossly misinformed.

    you're grossly ignorant.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claris#Creation>
    In 1988, Claris purchased FileMaker from Nashoba Systems and quickly >>
    Claris could not buy anything, being a wholly owned subsidiary of Apple. >> Apple bought FileMaker and assigned it to Claris.

    nonsense,

    Not at all.

    it is nonsense. claris was independently managed and they can (and did)
    buy several products, filemaker being one of them.

    In fact, the purchase of FileMaker and the spinning out of
    Claris were nearly synchronous events. Without the purchase of FileMaker Claris would never have been spunout because the whole reason for
    creating Claris was to continue to sell FileMaker to PC users.

    more revisionist history.

    but even if that were true, filemaker was still bought.

    Not the point at all. But thanks for playing.

    it was the point.

    even if apple told claris to buy filemaker (which they didn't but let's
    assume they did), filemaker was purchased and the original poster *did*
    own it before claris had it, as did many people.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan Baker@21:1/5 to Lewis on Tue Dec 15 13:35:53 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    On 12/15/15 10:32 AM, Lewis wrote:
    In message <151220151059208787%nospam@nospam.invalid>
    nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
    In article <slrnn70buu.o07.g.kreme@amelia.local>, Lewis
    <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

    I posted this in comp.databases.filemaker but that group gets even >>>>>>>> less traffic than this one (if possible).

    I have been using FieMaker since before Claris bought it.

    Claris did not buy Filemaker.

    yes they did, from nashoba systems

    You are grossly misinformed.

    you're grossly ignorant.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claris#Creation>
    In 1988, Claris purchased FileMaker from Nashoba Systems and quickly >>>
    Claris could not buy anything, being a wholly owned subsidiary of Apple. >>> Apple bought FileMaker and assigned it to Claris.

    nonsense,

    Not at all. In fact, the purchase of FileMaker and the spinning out of
    Claris were nearly synchronous events. Without the purchase of FileMaker Claris would never have been spunout because the whole reason for
    creating Claris was to continue to sell FileMaker to PC users.

    but even if that were true, filemaker was still bought.

    Not the point at all. But thanks for playing.



    1. Where is it written that wholly-owned subsidiaries cannot buy anything?

    2. Claris was formed in 1987 to continue the development of MacWrite,
    MacPaint, MacProject, MacDraw (as well as Apple II program, AppleWorks)
    at some remove from Apple itself.

    3. FileMaker wasn't purchased until the next year.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Empson@21:1/5 to nospam on Wed Dec 16 11:07:43 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

    In article <slrnn70nar.qqg.g.kreme@amelia.local>, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

    I posted this in comp.databases.filemaker but that group gets
    even less traffic than this one (if possible).

    I have been using FieMaker since before Claris bought it.

    Claris did not buy Filemaker.

    yes they did, from nashoba systems

    You are grossly misinformed.

    you're grossly ignorant.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claris#Creation>
    In 1988, Claris purchased FileMaker from Nashoba Systems and quickly >>
    Claris could not buy anything, being a wholly owned subsidiary of Apple. >> Apple bought FileMaker and assigned it to Claris.

    nonsense,

    Not at all.

    it is nonsense. claris was independently managed and they can (and did)
    buy several products, filemaker being one of them.

    AppleWorks GS is another which comes to mind (from personal experience,
    it happened the year after I got my Apple IIgs). It was previously being developed by a different company as "GSWorks". Wikipedia reminds me that
    the original developer was StyleWare. That was in 1988, the same year
    that FileMaker was acquired by Claris and re-released as FileMaker II.

    In fact, the purchase of FileMaker and the spinning out of
    Claris were nearly synchronous events. Without the purchase of FileMaker Claris would never have been spunout because the whole reason for
    creating Claris was to continue to sell FileMaker to PC users.

    more revisionist history.

    "Continue" to sell FileMaker to PC users? Claris _introduced_ FileMaker
    to Windows, with FileMaker Pro 2.0 in 1992, four years and two versions
    after Claris acquired FileMaker. All earlier versions using the
    "FileMaker" name (including those written by Nashoba Systems) were Mac
    only.

    Judging from documentation I've found, this resulted in oddities such as
    later versions of FileMaker Pro on Windows only supporting conversion of FileMaker Pro 2.0 and newer documents (since there were no earlier
    versions to support), while later versions of FileMaker Pro on the Mac
    also supported converting FileMaker Pro 1.0 documents (and presumably
    FileMaker II documents).

    but even if that were true, filemaker was still bought.

    Not the point at all. But thanks for playing.

    it was the point.

    even if apple told claris to buy filemaker (which they didn't but let's assume they did), filemaker was purchased and the original poster *did*
    own it before claris had it, as did many people.


    --
    David Empson
    dempson@actrix.gen.nz

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 16 13:05:53 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    In article <_I%by.1$IX3.0@fx36.iad>, Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net>
    wrote:
    On 12/15/15 10:32 AM, Lewis wrote:
    In message <151220151059208787%nospam@nospam.invalid>
    nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
    In article <slrnn70buu.o07.g.kreme@amelia.local>, Lewis
    <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

    I posted this in comp.databases.filemaker but that group gets even >>>>>>>> less traffic than this one (if possible).

    I have been using FieMaker since before Claris bought it.

    Claris did not buy Filemaker.

    yes they did, from nashoba systems

    You are grossly misinformed.

    you're grossly ignorant.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claris#Creation>
    In 1988, Claris purchased FileMaker from Nashoba Systems and quickly >>>
    Claris could not buy anything, being a wholly owned subsidiary of Apple. >>> Apple bought FileMaker and assigned it to Claris.

    nonsense,

    Not at all. In fact, the purchase of FileMaker and the spinning out of Claris were nearly synchronous events. Without the purchase of FileMaker Claris would never have been spunout because the whole reason for
    creating Claris was to continue to sell FileMaker to PC users.

    but even if that were true, filemaker was still bought.

    Not the point at all. But thanks for playing.

    1. Where is it written that wholly-owned subsidiaries cannot buy anything?

    2. Claris was formed in 1987 to continue the development of MacWrite, MacPaint, MacProject, MacDraw (as well as Apple II program, AppleWorks)
    at some remove from Apple itself.

    3. FileMaker wasn't purchased until the next year.

    You're wasting your time. Brainless nospam lives in his own fantasy
    world. Just killfile the moron and ignore him.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Magnussen on Wed Dec 16 13:14:52 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    In article <Co-dneViD5u_8e3LnZ2dnUU7-IOdnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Paul
    Magnussen <magiconinc@earthlink.net> wrote:
    Nelson wrote:

    <snip>

    What good is digitizing all your data if the technology to read it disappears? I should have used papyrus.

    I couldn't agree more.

    There was an article a while back in the UK's MacFormat magazine about
    this issue. Their advice was basically to update the file formats
    whenever you update the application, and to keep copies in a
    non-proprietary format (such as plain text, JPEG, etc.), as well as to
    keep printouts and store files on current disk formats / media types
    using something fairly standard just as Windoze formatting (which over
    the years have been readable in Amiga, Atari ST, Mac, etc. while Amiga
    disks are now near-impossible to read without an actual Amiga).

    Realistically it's no different to any other industry. Trying to get a replacement part for some models of old cars, for example, can be
    impossible - you either have to buy second-hand or have them custom
    made. One of the few companies that still apparently makes and stocks
    parts for virtually all their old models (way back to pre-War models!)
    is Citroen.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From nospam@21:1/5 to dempson@actrix.gen.nz on Tue Dec 15 17:14:54 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    In article <1mfir0f.jy70yt1o7i87jN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>, David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:

    I posted this in comp.databases.filemaker but that group gets >> >> >> > even less traffic than this one (if possible).

    I have been using FieMaker since before Claris bought it.

    Claris did not buy Filemaker.

    yes they did, from nashoba systems

    You are grossly misinformed.

    you're grossly ignorant.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claris#Creation>
    In 1988, Claris purchased FileMaker from Nashoba Systems and
    quickly

    Claris could not buy anything, being a wholly owned subsidiary of
    Apple.
    Apple bought FileMaker and assigned it to Claris.

    nonsense,

    Not at all.

    it is nonsense. claris was independently managed and they can (and did)
    buy several products, filemaker being one of them.

    AppleWorks GS is another which comes to mind (from personal experience,
    it happened the year after I got my Apple IIgs). It was previously being developed by a different company as "GSWorks". Wikipedia reminds me that
    the original developer was StyleWare. That was in 1988, the same year
    that FileMaker was acquired by Claris and re-released as FileMaker II.

    yep.

    <http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/bob/clarisworks.php>
    Meanwhile, Apple had formed a software subsidiary, named Claris, to
    develop and market application software. Initially Claris sold
    MacWrite, MacPaint, and MacDraw, for the Macintosh, and AppleWorks,
    for the Apple†II. (The original plan was that Claris would become
    completely independent from Apple someday, and go public. But that
    never happened.)
    Naturally Claris was interested in this forthcoming AppleWorks-like
    program for the IIGS. In 1988, Claris bought StyleWare, moved the
    development team to its offices in Santa Clara, and rechristened
    GSWorks as AppleWorks†GS. (I was already living in the SF bay area by
    then: I'd moved out in 1987 to be with my fiancť, Liz Harding, who
    was in grad school at Berkeley.)

    In fact, the purchase of FileMaker and the spinning out of
    Claris were nearly synchronous events. Without the purchase of FileMaker Claris would never have been spunout because the whole reason for creating Claris was to continue to sell FileMaker to PC users.

    more revisionist history.

    "Continue" to sell FileMaker to PC users? Claris _introduced_ FileMaker
    to Windows, with FileMaker Pro 2.0 in 1992, four years and two versions
    after Claris acquired FileMaker. All earlier versions using the
    "FileMaker" name (including those written by Nashoba Systems) were Mac
    only.

    yep.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andreas Rutishauser@21:1/5 to Your Name on Wed Dec 16 06:20:14 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    Salut Your Name

    In article <161220151314526540%YourName@YourISP.com>,
    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

    One of the few companies that still apparently makes and stocks
    parts for virtually all their old models (way back to pre-War models!)
    is Citroen.

    we are getting quite off topic now...

    As a proud owner of a 1936 CitroŽn 11A and connaisseur of the scene in
    Europe I can assure you that this is not true. The only thing I am able
    to get from official CitroŽn outlets is the air in the tires...

    Other companies like Mercedes, BMW or Porsche for example are much
    better in this regard:

    <https://www.mercedes-benz.com/de/mercedes-benz/classic/classic-service-t eile/mercedes-benz-classic-service-teile/>

    <http://www.classicshop.porsche.com/pcos/>

    <http://www.bmwgroup-classic.com/bmw_classic/de/index.html>

    Cheers
    Andreas

    --
    MacAndreas Rutishauser, <http://www.MacAndreas.ch>
    EDV-Dienstleistungen, Hard- und Software, Internet und Netzwerk
    Beratung, Unterstuetzung und Schulung
    <mailto:andreas@MacAndreas.ch>, Fon: 044 / 721 36 47

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Nelson@21:1/5 to Paul Magnussen on Wed Dec 16 07:48:42 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 14:38:09 -0500, Paul Magnussen wrote
    (in article <Co-dneViD5u_8e3LnZ2dnUU7-IOdnZ2d@earthlink.com>):

    Nelson wrote:

    I have been using FieMaker since before Claris bought it. I now find
    I'd like to go back and retrieve data stored in some of those older
    databases. My current version (12) refuses to open the older
    databases, even, to my mind, some relatively recent ones (ca 2009).

    I still have the Filemaker 4 thru 5 disks, and a G3 to run them on

    Assuming your fies aren't confidential (and are of e-mailalble size),
    I'd be happy to convert them (assuming I can) and send them back to you.

    Thanks, Paul. That is a very generous offer. I may take you up on it
    after I have sorted through everything.

    Years ago, I kept all my financial information on an Apple IIe using
    Dollars and $ense. When the IIe became obsolete, I exported all the
    info to flat, tab separated text files and thence into, you guessed it, FileMaker. I'm a hoarder and actually still have all the old hardware
    and software on the original media. Hell, I even have a couple of
    programs on punched paper tape :) However I have long ago forgotten
    how it all worked or how to hook it all up.

    For a while I focused on CD's and DVD's as my archival strategy. Heh.
    What a mistake that was. Many of them have visibly deteriorated and
    are unreadable.

    Now everything is on duplicated hard drives. But it's hard to hook up
    a 5 TB USB 3 drive to an Apple IIe :)

    --
    Nelson

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Rutishauser on Wed Dec 16 19:20:42 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    In article <andreas-B2F785.06201416122015@news.individual.de>, Andreas Rutishauser <andreas@macandreas.ch> wrote:
    Salut Your Name
    In article <161220151314526540%YourName@YourISP.com>,
    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

    One of the few companies that still apparently makes and stocks
    parts for virtually all their old models (way back to pre-War models!)
    is Citroen.

    we are getting quite off topic now...

    As a proud owner of a 1936 CitroŽn 11A and connaisseur of the scene in
    Europe I can assure you that this is not true. The only thing I am able
    to get from official CitroŽn outlets is the air in the tires...

    Other companies like Mercedes, BMW or Porsche for example are much
    better in this regard:

    <https://www.mercedes-benz.com/de/mercedes-benz/classic/classic-service-t eile/mercedes-benz-classic-service-teile/>

    <http://www.classicshop.porsche.com/pcos/>

    <http://www.bmwgroup-classic.com/bmw_classic/de/index.html>

    Cheers
    Andreas

    Citroen may have been the wrong manufacturer, but I'm (almost) certain
    it is one of the French ones ... or at least was a couple of years ago.
    It may well have changed since then as manufacturers have bought each
    other out and some have attempted to cut costs.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin =?UTF-8?Q?=CE=A4rautmann?=@21:1/5 to nospam on Wed Dec 16 08:09:43 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 17:14:54 -0500, nospam wrote:
    <http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/bob/clarisworks.php>
    Meanwhile, Apple had formed a software subsidiary, named Claris, to
    develop and market application software. Initially Claris sold
    MacWrite, MacPaint, and MacDraw, for the Macintosh, and AppleWorks,

    offtopic, but MacDraw was such an excellent application. I am so sorry
    that there has been that little progress in improving drawing
    applications since - especially looking at the lack of proper drawing capabilites within MS Word, Libe/Openoffice etc.

    The proper concepts of aligning, grouping, moving were just so natural
    and obvious to use. And copy/paste to other documents, or scaling where excellent that time. I even could take a ruler on the screen of my
    Mac Classic, up to the Powerbook 190 (which I liked more than the
    5something), in order to measure and position anything.

    Same was true that time for FMP.

    Is there anything as good by current standards, as MacDraw was that
    time? I'd vote for Sketchup - which is a perfectly different, but
    excellent to use 3D app. But I don't know any for Mac (knowing not much
    more than e.g. Intaglio, just wondering why 2.9.4 still works with
    10.10, but 3.1 doesn't).

    FMP evolved a lot since, too. The concept of relations was one of the
    most significant real improvements. But whatever came since was useful
    many times, but not such a major thing as I feel since my experience of FileMaker II and its great usefulness.
    For my daily data work I still expect most a proper spreadsheet like
    operation for multi cell copy/paste and a (scriptable?) option to toggle instant resort, which is somehow useful, but on data massage a
    pain-in-the-ass many times.

    I don't like the direction FMP is moving towards nowadays. It still
    lacks major drawing capabilites (now speaking of MacDraw again?), of
    more powerful chart functions - or a proper data input handling, with
    full tracking which field was entered when from what to what, offering
    the option to undo certain of the modifications.

    The "replace" operation is one of the most powerful options, but
    it's still one of the most dangerous things, too, to lose your data. And
    the replace operation still lacks a kind of history management, as e.g. TextWrangler does for search/replace

    - Martin

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  • From Lewis@21:1/5 to David Empson on Wed Dec 16 13:30:10 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    In message <1mfir0f.jy70yt1o7i87jN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>
    David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
    "Continue" to sell FileMaker to PC users? Claris _introduced_ FileMaker
    to Windows, with FileMaker Pro 2.0 in 1992, four years and two versions
    after Claris acquired FileMaker. All earlier versions using the
    "FileMaker" name (including those written by Nashoba Systems) were Mac
    only.

    Ah, really? OK. I was still on a //gs in 1988, but I thought FileMaker
    was for Mac and DOS.

    --
    All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'.

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  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to t-usenet@gmx.net on Thu Dec 17 13:59:04 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    In article <slrnn72727.3kn.t-usenet@ID-685.user.individual.de>, Martin ?rautmann <t-usenet@gmx.net> wrote:
    On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 17:14:54 -0500, nospam wrote:
    <http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/bob/clarisworks.php>
    Meanwhile, Apple had formed a software subsidiary, named Claris, to
    develop and market application software. Initially Claris sold
    MacWrite, MacPaint, and MacDraw, for the Macintosh, and AppleWorks,

    offtopic, but MacDraw was such an excellent application. I am so sorry
    that there has been that little progress in improving drawing
    applications since - especially looking at the lack of proper drawing capabilites within MS Word, Libe/Openoffice etc.

    The proper concepts of aligning, grouping, moving were just so natural
    and obvious to use. And copy/paste to other documents, or scaling where excellent that time. I even could take a ruler on the screen of my
    Mac Classic, up to the Powerbook 190 (which I liked more than the 5something), in order to measure and position anything.

    Same was true that time for FMP.

    Is there anything as good by current standards, as MacDraw was that
    time? I'd vote for Sketchup - which is a perfectly different, but
    excellent to use 3D app. But I don't know any for Mac (knowing not much
    more than e.g. Intaglio, just wondering why 2.9.4 still works with
    10.10, but 3.1 doesn't).
    <snip>

    Not quite the same as the excellent MacDraw / ClarisDraw (which I still
    use from time to time), but there is possibly EazyDraw, OmniGraffle,
    MacDraft, Intaglio as you mentioned, Adobe Illustrator, Inkscape, plus
    a few CAD applications and "room design" apps.

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  • From Martin =?UTF-8?Q?=CE=A4rautmann?=@21:1/5 to Your Name on Thu Dec 17 02:51:47 2015
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.system

    On Thu, 17 Dec 2015 13:59:04 +1300, Your Name wrote:
    Is there anything as good by current standards, as MacDraw was that
    time? I'd vote for Sketchup - which is a perfectly different, but
    excellent to use 3D app. But I don't know any for Mac (knowing not much more than e.g. Intaglio, just wondering why 2.9.4 still works with
    10.10, but 3.1 doesn't).
    <snip>

    Not quite the same as the excellent MacDraw / ClarisDraw (which I still
    use from time to time), but there is possibly EazyDraw, OmniGraffle,
    MacDraft, Intaglio as you mentioned, Adobe Illustrator, Inkscape, plus
    a few CAD applications and "room design" apps.

    I tried OmniGraffle and Inkscape. They are not as good as MacDraw, 25
    years later! I should add proper SVG support to the list of expected functionallity. Whenever I tried to save as SVG and open again, things
    were messed up.

    Thanks for the other suggestions - I'll have a further look.

    - Martin

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