I want to buy a Mac to run Mojave so I can run some 32bit programs. I currently have Mojave on a bootable SSD and I have a Mojave installer on
the same drive. If what I buy already has Mojave there shouldn't be a
problem. However, I'm assuming whatever I buy will have 10.15
(Catalina?) or later and will need to be taken back to 10.14.

I tried googling this. It turns out there is a lot of info about
putting Mojave on an SSD but nothing about going the other way.
However, from what I've read there are two steps.

First, I have to be sure whatever I buy actually can be taken back to
10.14. I understand some can't. Therefore, what do I need to avoid?

Second, I will need to install Mojave on that computer. Potentially I
could erase the target drive and use Superduper! to copy the SSD to the
new computer. Is that even possible? It sure would be easy. I'm
assuming it will be more complicated than that so any input anybody can
provide will be appreciated.

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In article <skvblk$1d6u$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:

First, I have to be sure whatever I buy actually can be taken back to
10.14. I understand some can't. Therefore, what do I need to avoid?

any mac released after october 2019, when catalina was released, can't
run mojave. the hardware is too new.

the only mac that apple currently sells that can still run mojave is
the high end intel mac mini, released in 2018, which starts at $1100.

the less expensive low end mac mini was replaced last year with an
apple silicon model, which will definitely not run mojave.

it's possible that 2018 and older macs are available on apple's refurb
store but there is no telling when or if that will happen.

another option are used macs.

a *much* better option is run mojave inside a virtual machine on
whatever mac you currently have.

better yet, update the apps and/or find replacements.

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On 2021-10-22 21:49:38 +0000, Robert Peirce said:

I want to buy a Mac to run Mojave so I can run some 32bit programs. I currently have Mojave on a bootable SSD and I have a Mojave installer
on the same drive. If what I buy already has Mojave there shouldn't be
a problem. However, I'm assuming whatever I buy will have 10.15
(Catalina?) or later and will need to be taken back to 10.14.

I tried googling this. It turns out there is a lot of info about
putting Mojave on an SSD but nothing about going the other way.
However, from what I've read there are two steps.

First, I have to be sure whatever I buy actually can be taken back to
10.14. I understand some can't. Therefore, what do I need to avoid?

Second, I will need to install Mojave on that computer. Potentially I
could erase the target drive and use Superduper! to copy the SSD to the
new computer. Is that even possible? It sure would be easy. I'm
assuming it will be more complicated than that so any input anybody can provide will be appreciated.

You can't install an older version of MacOS on any Mac that originally
shipped with a newer version pre-installed, so that means you're stuck
with buying an older, second-hand Mac. You would have to avoid anything
that originally shipped with Catalina or Big Sur, but according to
Apple's website:

These Mac models are compatible with macOS Mojave:

- MacBook (Early 2015 or newer)
- MacBook Air (Mid 2012 or newer)
- MacBook Pro (Mid 2012 or newer)
- Mac mini (Late 2012 or newer)
- iMac (Late 2012 or newer)
- iMac Pro (2017)
- Mac Pro (Late 2013; Mid 2010 and Mid 2012 models with
recommended Metal-capable graphics cards)

<https://support.apple.com/kb/SP777>

There are some exceptions listed on that page where you will need a
newer computer for certain Mac OS features.

A good app to check which OS shipped with a particular Mac is the free MacTracker. <https://mactracker.ca>

I can't think of any, but it's potentially possible that there could be
an issue with some models if they have already been updated to a newer
version of Mac OS which required a Firmware update, since it may not be possible to downgrade the Firmware again.


The other option is to just use a newer computer / version of Mac OS
and run Mojave and the 32bit apps as a virtual computer under Parallels Desktop, VMWare Fusion, or similar. That of course does need more drive
space and RAM since you're using two versions of Mac OS at the same
time.

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In article <skvkb3$akd$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

You can't install an older version of MacOS on any Mac that originally shipped with a newer version pre-installed,

nope. it's based on the release date of the hardware, not what os is
installed.

the current intel mac mini has not changed since its release in 2018,
and although it now ships with big sur, it originally shipped with
mojave and can still run it if it's installed by the user.

macs released after late-2019 require catalina or later.

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On 10/22/21 6:20 PM, nospam wrote:

any mac released after october 2019, when catalina was released, can't > run mojave. the hardware is too new.

Thanks. That's helpful.

it's possible that 2018 and older macs are available on apple's refurb
store but there is no telling when or if that will happen.

another option are used macs.

I've found several sources including Amazon for refurbished macs

a *much* better option is run mojave inside a virtual machine on

whatever mac you currently have.

I tried that but it didn't work. I'm running an audio app that drives a
DAC and it wasn't supported last time I looked at it.

better yet, update the apps and/or find replacements.

That's the issue. The 64bit version hasn't been released yet and I
don't know when it will be and I'm locked into this app. The only
alternative at this time is a mac where I can install Mojave or boot it
from the SSD.

My current machine [late 2012] still runs Mojave and if I upgrade I
should still be able boot from the SSD. The problem here is I won't be
able to do anything else while I'm running Mojave.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 10/22/21 8:17 PM, Your Name wrote:

You can't install an older version of MacOS on any Mac that originally shipped with a newer version pre-installed, so that means you're stuck
with buying an older, second-hand Mac.

That was my understanding.

   These Mac models are compatible with macOS Mojave:

       - MacBook (Early 2015 or newer)
       - MacBook Air (Mid 2012 or newer)
       - MacBook Pro (Mid 2012 or newer)
       - Mac mini (Late 2012 or newer)
       - iMac (Late 2012 or newer)
       - iMac Pro (2017)
       - Mac Pro (Late 2013; Mid 2010 and Mid 2012 models with
         recommended Metal-capable graphics cards)

I've seen that but have not been able to determine if they can be taken
back to Mojave once Catalina or Big Sur have been installed.

I can't think of any, but it's potentially possible that there could be
an issue with some models if they have already been updated to a newer version of Mac OS which required a Firmware update, since it may not be possible to downgrade the Firmware again.

So that may be the only thing preventing going back? How would I
determine if the firmware had been updated?

I'm currently thinking of a mini since this would basically be a
stand-alone operation requiring limited access, the only problem being something in Mojave that causes random crashes. Interestingly that
problem didn't exist in 10.13 but that goes even further back.

The other option is to just use a newer computer / version of Mac OS and
run Mojave and the 32bit apps as a virtual computer under Parallels
Desktop, VMWare Fusion, or similar. That of course does need more drive
space and RAM since you're using two versions of Mac OS at the same time.

As mentioned in a previous post, I've tried that and it didn't work for
this application.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 10/22/21 8:24 PM, nospam wrote:

the current intel mac mini has not changed since its release in 2018,
and although it now ships with big sur, it originally shipped with
mojave and can still run it if it's installed by the user.

Excellent! The mini is the computer I am thinking of. What is required
to go back? I have both Mojave and a Mojave installer on an SSD but no
idea how to get it installed on something running Catalina or Big Sur.

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On 10/23/21 8:16 AM, Robert Peirce wrote:

stand-alone operation requiring limited access, the only problem being something in Mojave that causes random crashes.  Interestingly that
problem didn't exist in 10.13 but that goes even further back.

This is wrong. The problem cropped up in 10.13 and exists in 10.14.
Apparently there is a "port leak" bug, whatever that is, and it is worse
in 10.13 than in 10.14 but has been corrected in 10.15. Unfortunately,
32bit programs won't run in 10.15.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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In article <sl0uk1$ctm$2@gioia.aioe.org>, Robert Peirce
<bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:

the current intel mac mini has not changed since its release in 2018,
and although it now ships with big sur, it originally shipped with
mojave and can still run it if it's installed by the user.

Excellent! The mini is the computer I am thinking of. What is required
to go back?

money. the current intel mac mini starts at $1100.

that's a *lot* of money just to run some outdated apps.

I have both Mojave and a Mojave installer on an SSD but no
idea how to get it installed on something running Catalina or Big Sur.

you'll need to completely erase the internal drive, boot from the ssd
and do a clean install.

another option is make a bootable usb stick with the installer on it.

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Tell me if this is correct or wrong. I have a time machine backup of my current computer, which runs Mojave. If I want to install Mojave on a
new computer that can run Mojave but has Catalina or later on it I am
told I can erase the drive and do a restore from time machine. Can I do
the install from time machine created on a different computer?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2021-10-23 12:35:00 +0000, Robert Peirce said:

On 10/23/21 8:16 AM, Robert Peirce wrote:

stand-alone operation requiring limited access, the only problem being
something in Mojave that causes random crashes.  Interestingly that
problem didn't exist in 10.13 but that goes even further back.

This is wrong. The problem cropped up in 10.13 and exists in 10.14. Apparently there is a "port leak" bug, whatever that is, and it is
worse in 10.13 than in 10.14 but has been corrected in 10.15.
Unfortunately, 32bit programs won't run in 10.15.

If the program can't run in 10.15, how can the bug have been corrected
in 10.15?? Either that's a typo somewhere or there is already a
non-32bit version of the program that is newer than what you're
currently using.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 10/23/21 4:42 PM, Your Name wrote:

If the program can't run in 10.15, how can the bug have been corrected
in 10.15?? Either that's a typo somewhere or there is already a
non-32bit version of the program that is newer than what you're
currently using.

This was an OSX bug of some sort that was corrected in 10.15. The 32bit
app I'm interested in is in process of being converted to 64bit and I
presume the problem hasn't cropped up.

Realistically that isn't conclusive proof. It may be it is still there
and nothing has tickled it yet. I'm not sure it is even possible to
prove a bug doesn't exist.

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