• RamFAST Rev C with Apple IIe

    From Mitchell Spector@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 14 20:13:58 2022
    I'm looking to use an Apple IIe with 'Total Replay' but my financial situation rules out a modern mass-storage solution (e.g. Floppy Emu,
    CFFA). So instead thinking about using vintage-era options I already
    have on the shelf: a SCSI controller and external 52x CD-ROM drive.

    So, I have a pair of RamFAST Rev C SCSI boards, but the ROM
    firmware isn't the latest. One has version 2.01 (in both U15/U16)
    while the other has 3.01e *but* 2.01 in U16. Will this combination
    work, and support removable storage? (it's been so long I cannot
    remember the specific differences between ROM revisions).

    I'm almost a bit hesitant to use a RamFAST in a IIe, but I'm
    guessing its fast ProDOS-8 performance should be comparable to
    what I've experienced with my IIGS's. If not, would I be better off
    using one of my Apple High-Speed SCSI controllers to operate a
    CD-ROM instead?

    And on a side-note, what is the best way to create a bootable
    ProDOS CD for Total Replay? Anything on the Windows side,
    or will I have better luck using software on my beige G3 Mac?

    Mitchell Spector

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  • From qkumba@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 14 18:19:22 2022
    We support SCSI drives in Total Replay, at least, so if you can hook up a CD you should be able to run but not save high-scores.
    I don't know anything about the ROM revisions, so I can't answer that part.
    I also don't know if you'll be able to boot it directly from CD because I don't know what the boot-sector looks like. If it presents like a hard disk then okay. If not, then not.
    However, if you boot from a floppy into BitsyBye or similar, then you can select the CD drive and run the LAUNCHER.SYSTEM from it.
    Let me know if you get it mostly running but some games fail. I can fix the failures.

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  • From Jeff Blakeney@21:1/5 to Mitchell Spector on Tue Jun 14 23:56:12 2022
    On 2022-06-14 8:13 p.m., Mitchell Spector wrote:
    I'm looking to use an Apple IIe with 'Total Replay' but my financial situation rules out a modern mass-storage solution (e.g. Floppy Emu,
    CFFA). So instead thinking about using vintage-era options I already
    have on the shelf: a SCSI controller and external 52x CD-ROM drive.

    So, I have a pair of RamFAST Rev C SCSI boards, but the ROM
    firmware isn't the latest. One has version 2.01 (in both U15/U16)
    while the other has 3.01e *but* 2.01 in U16. Will this combination
    work, and support removable storage? (it's been so long I cannot
    remember the specific differences between ROM revisions).

    I'm almost a bit hesitant to use a RamFAST in a IIe, but I'm
    guessing its fast ProDOS-8 performance should be comparable to
    what I've experienced with my IIGS's. If not, would I be better off
    using one of my Apple High-Speed SCSI controllers to operate a
    CD-ROM instead?

    And on a side-note, what is the best way to create a bootable
    ProDOS CD for Total Replay? Anything on the Windows side,
    or will I have better luck using software on my beige G3 Mac?

    It has been a long time since I played with my SCSI hardware. I have a
    couple CFFAs now. What's worse is I hardly ever turn on the hardware
    anymore. Finding time to do all the things I want is always a problem.

    I believe at one point I was using a RamFAST with v3.01ez firmware (I
    think v3.01f was the latest) that I had connected to a 1.2 GB SCSI hard
    drive. I had an Apple High Speed SCSI card connected to a CD-ROM drive.
    I'm pretty sure the RamFAST did work with the CD-ROM drive but because
    I had such a large hard drive with 11 ProDOS and 1 HFS partitions, that
    used up all 12 partitions the RamFAST firmware could handle so I put the
    CD-ROM on a separate controller. Also, if I recall correctly, the
    RamFAST couldn't detect when you changed disks in the CD-ROM drive but
    the AHS card could.

    As you are planning on just hooking up the CD-ROM drive, I don't think
    it really matters which card you use as you would be rebooting all the
    time anyway so being able to detect a disc change isn't important.
    However, with the RamFAST, I think you would have to access the firmware
    (I believe it was hold down the zero key when booting) and map any
    partitions on the CD to get them to show up properly.

    I'm 99.9% sure that you can boot CD-ROMs on the Apple II but I couldn't
    tell you how to set one up or even if both types of SCSI card support
    it. I think that some of the CD-ROMs that exist for the Apple II are
    bootable. I'd have to pull out my collection or do some online research
    to find out and see if there are any details on how it was accomplished.

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  • From Mitchell Spector@21:1/5 to qkumba on Wed Jun 15 00:10:18 2022
    qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> wrote:

    We support SCSI drives in Total Replay, at least, so if you can hook up a
    CD you should be able to run but not save high-scores.

    I imagine it should work, but there may be unexpected results when Total Replay attemps to write and unexpectedly encounters a read-only device.

    Unfortunately I just discovered tonight my 24x CD-ROM is failing (motor spindle?). And seems so is my Apple 600i. I do have an Apple 300e Plus
    but its been having health issues too. I'll likely burn a CD nonetheless just to see if it can be done. Apparently no one else has tried yet! Foe extra
    fun, I'm going to try using a rewritable CD-RW disc.

    I don't know anything about the ROM revisions, so I can't answer that part.

    Well if anyone else out there is familiar with the RamFAST revision C,
    what was the final version of the 'U16' ROM (I vaguely remember 3.00)
    and what does it control on the card compared to the U15 ROM?

    I also don't know if you'll be able to boot it directly from CD because I don't
    know what the boot-sector looks like. If it presents like a hard disk then okay.
    If not, then not. However, if you boot from a floppy into BitsyBye or similar, then
    you can select the CD drive and run the LAUNCHER.SYSTEM from it.
    Let me know if you get it mostly running but some games fail. I can fix the failures.

    Well, as a test I hooked up an IOmega Zip drive, pulled out a 100 MB Zip cart that already had a copy of Total Replay on it and popped it in....

    And it WORKED! The RamFAST detected it and allows me to boot directly
    off the Zip drive! It even allows me to Control-Reset and return to the menu selector. Works nice and fast too! I love that it detects my Phasor card
    and has music, sound and speech in a couple of games!

    The only issue is it's a faulty Zip drive I retired from my IIGS, and
    keeps clicking at random (yeah, that fun click-of-death issue). Good
    enough for testing purposes for now, until if/when I can repair it.
    Also have to figure out a color timing issue on my IIe, but that'll be
    for another post. Long term I'd like to dig up a small SCSI hardisk
    to put Total Recall on (kicking myself for giving several of them
    away a decade ago!).

    Mitchell Spector

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  • From Mitchell Spector@21:1/5 to Jeff Blakeney on Wed Jun 15 00:57:05 2022
    Jeff Blakeney <CUTjeffrey_blakeney@yahoo.ca> wrote:

    It has been a long time since I played with my SCSI hardware. I have a >couple CFFAs now. What's worse is I hardly ever turn on the hardware >anymore. Finding time to do all the things I want is always a problem.

    Still actively using a SCSI Jaz and Zip drive on my IIGS (most of my SCSI hardisks have failed or too noisy), but not sure I'd be able to ever switch
    to a CFFA after being spoiled by the speed of the RamFAST. Yep, I hear
    you about time these days!

    I believe at one point I was using a RamFAST with v3.01ez firmware (I
    think v3.01f was the latest)

    Yep, 3.01f was the final, but only 1 byte changed from 3.01e (the "ez"
    I do remember was for the putting the Zilog CPU into Hitachi mode on
    Sequential System boards). As for what the differences are for the U16
    ROM on the older revision C board, that's what I'm curious about.

    that I had connected to a 1.2 GB SCSI hard drive. I had an Apple High
    Speed SCSI card connected to a CD-ROM drive.

    The RamFAST had issues with devices 1 GB or larger, though I've been
    able to use it with my 1 GB Jaz drive with some moderate success. The card though did not support SCSI arbitration which caused incompatibilities with several newer drives at the time. Is it possible your Apple HS SCSI was connected to the 1.2 GB, not the RamFAST?

    I'm pretty sure the RamFAST did work with the CD-ROM drive but because
    I had such a large hard drive with 11 ProDOS and 1 HFS partitions, that
    used up all 12 partitions the RamFAST firmware could handle so I put the >CD-ROM on a separate controller.

    Had that issue back in the day, still do. My solution was to disable some of the hardisk partitions whenever I inserted a CD-ROM disc. Swapping partitions in and out as I needed them.

    Also, if I recall correctly, the RamFAST couldn't detect when you changed >disks in the CD-ROM drive but the AHS card could.

    I believe that was resolved in the later firmware updates. I know for certain with my RamFAST D (ROM 3.01ez) I can pop CD's in and out while
    in the IIGS Finder and new discs appear on the desktop.

    Also noticed while working on the IIe, if I swapped CD's while in the RamFAST C's built-in menus, and pressed control-E, it detected the new
    discs without the need to restart the computer.

    As you are planning on just hooking up the CD-ROM drive, I don't think
    it really matters which card you use as you would be rebooting all the
    time anyway so being able to detect a disc change isn't important.
    However, with the RamFAST, I think you would have to access the firmware
    (I believe it was hold down the zero key when booting) and map any
    partitions on the CD to get them to show up properly.

    Yes, and it works quite well with the Zip drive I'm testing it with!
    I'm curious if it would be as flexible with the Apple High Speed SCSI
    card, detecting the ProDOS partition and booting it directly. I'm also
    curious how it fares in terms of speed--the RamFAST really flies with
    ProDOS-8! I may pop in an Apple board just to see the difference...

    I'm 99.9% sure that you can boot CD-ROMs on the Apple II but I couldn't
    tell you how to set one up or even if both types of SCSI card support
    it. I think that some of the CD-ROMs that exist for the Apple II are >bootable. I'd have to pull out my collection or do some online research
    to find out and see if there are any details on how it was accomplished.

    I do remember booting YourWordBox CD-ROM directly from my
    RamFAST SCSI on the IIGS. Interesting thing is the Apple IIe is
    attempting to do the same. I popped in that same CD-ROM and got
    the message "GS/OS REQUIRES APPLE IIGS HARDWARE". So
    looks like even on an Apple IIe, booting from a CD-ROM is doable!

    I'll do some tests with burning some Total Replay CD's and fooling
    about with the RamFAST and Apple SCSI controllers. Unfortunately
    my equipment is failing....all 3 of my SCSI CD-ROM drives, my spare
    Zip drive. Even the built-in speakers on my CRT TV set I'm hooking
    the Apple IIe up to! Speaking of time, I need time to sit down and
    repair a lot of my vintage hardware!

    Mitchell Spector

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  • From David Schmidt@21:1/5 to Mitchell Spector on Wed Jun 15 10:04:16 2022
    On 6/15/22 12:10 AM, Mitchell Spector wrote:
    [...]
    The only issue is it's a faulty Zip drive I retired from my IIGS, and keeps clicking at random (yeah, that fun click-of-death issue). Good
    enough for testing purposes for now, until if/when I can repair it.

    I don't think "repair" and "Zip drive" generally appear in the same
    sentence, except in the negative. Do please let us know if you find
    such a thing to be possible - I go through them with some regularity.

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  • From David Schmidt@21:1/5 to Mitchell Spector on Wed Jun 15 15:58:47 2022
    On 6/15/22 3:26 PM, Mitchell Spector wrote:
    [...]
    I DID find a fix for recovering Zip cartridges that were corrupted
    by the clicking drive. Couldn't get those disks to format on my Macs
    or PCs, but the RamFAST's built-in utility was able to low-level
    format and resurrect the disks!

    Oh, nice! I'd never want to write out a new Zip; my only interest is
    reading and then ending their sorry life. But nice to hear another
    outcome is possible!

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  • From Mitchell Spector@21:1/5 to David Schmidt on Wed Jun 15 15:26:23 2022
    David Schmidt <schmidtd@my-deja.com> wrote:

    On 6/15/22 12:10 AM, Mitchell Spector wrote:
    [...]
    The only issue is it's a faulty Zip drive I retired from my IIGS, and >> keeps clicking at random (yeah, that fun click-of-death issue). Good
    enough for testing purposes for now, until if/when I can repair it.

    I don't think "repair" and "Zip drive" generally appear in the same
    sentence, except in the negative. Do please let us know if you find
    such a thing to be possible - I go through them with some regularity.

    After some quick research, unfortunately it appears the "fix" (straightening the drive head bracket?) is temporary at best.
    It's recommended instead replacing the mechanism or the entire
    unit itself. I did the latter for my IIGS since I had a spare, but the clicking/dying one is OK for Total Replay until it goes completely.

    I DID find a fix for recovering Zip cartridges that were corrupted
    by the clicking drive. Couldn't get those disks to format on my Macs
    or PCs, but the RamFAST's built-in utility was able to low-level
    format and resurrect the disks!

    Mitchell Spector

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  • From Hugh Hood@21:1/5 to Mitchell Spector on Wed Jun 15 21:33:10 2022
    On 6/14/2022 11:57 PM, Mitchell Spector wrote:

    Still actively using a SCSI Jaz and Zip drive on my IIGS (most of my
    SCSI hardisks have failed or too noisy), but not sure I'd be able to
    ever switch to a CFFA after being spoiled by the speed of the
    RamFAST.


    Like you, I've been using a pair of chained Zip Drives with a Rev D (1
    Meg) RamFAST on my work IIgs for well over 20 years now, and have always
    been very pleased with the setup.

    The RamFAST card has always been my favorite Apple II peripheral; for
    working under ProDOS 8, nothing else can compare to its speed. I believe
    the MicroDrive Turbo can compete with it under GS/OS, but since the MDT
    doesn't cache ProDOS 8, it can't touch the RamFAST there.

    I have had a few Zip drives fail over that time, but I've always kept a
    few NIB spares on hand to replace them. Sometimes, it's just the wall
    wart getting a little weak voltage wise and a new one fixes things right up.

    You've probably taken a look at the SCSI Zip Drive replacement options
    out there. The SCSI2SD has been around a while, and Wayne Stewart has
    used one with the Apple II and RamFAST with good results.

    The latest replacements, however, the BlueSCSI and the ZuluSCSI, are
    also SCSI devices, but rather than using the SD card as a SCSI block
    device (e.g. SCSI2SD), they are actually using disk images on the SD
    card, much like a CFFA or the FloppyEMU would.

    I've been tempted to try one of those since it would make transferring
    my Apple II files to my Mac or Windows box fairly simple.

    Maybe I'll let Wayne Stewart do it first. ;-)

    I bring it up because if you were to use something like that, you could
    just take your Total Replay images, write them to the card, and go to town.




    Hugh Hood

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  • From Jeff Blakeney@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jun 16 09:31:34 2022
    Bringing up the Zip drive jogged my memory that I have a Jaz drive that
    I never did get any cartridges for. They were too expensive. However,
    at the same place and time I picked up that used Jaz drive I also picked
    up a used EZ135 drive with 10 cartridges. I used that for a little
    while on my IIgs. The plan was to make bootable cartridges for
    different tasks. One for games, one for programming, one for
    productivity, one for communications (which would also be for downloaded archives).

    I still need to sort through my Apple II stuff. I really should get
    stuff that I'm not using and am just storing into the hands of people
    who will actually use it.

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  • From fadden@21:1/5 to Jeff Blakeney on Thu Jun 16 08:07:41 2022
    On Thursday, June 16, 2022 at 6:31:35 AM UTC-7, Jeff Blakeney wrote:
    I still need to sort through my Apple II stuff. I really should get
    stuff that I'm not using and am just storing into the hands of people
    who will actually use it.

    I'm currently trying to figure out how to do that. A neighbor down the street decided to get rid of some old stuff that was lurking in a closet, so I'm now the proud owner of a functional but bare-bones Apple ][+, an Apple High-Resolution RGB monitor (
    that's the fixed-resolution one, not useful for a IIgs), an ADB keyboard and mouse (thick bezel version), and an ImageWriter II that I haven't tried to do anything with. I also have a couple of Mac Classics that I pulled the hard drives out of.

    None of this is particularly valuable, but all of it is of interest to collectors, as spare parts if nothing else. So it'd be nice to hand it off to somebody who has a genuine desire for it. I'm trying to figure out if there's a way to do that without
    having to go through an auction site and deal with packing and shipping everything.

    (FWIW, I'm keeping the Apple ][+.)

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  • From scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us@21:1/5 to Mitchell Spector on Thu Jun 16 15:18:46 2022
    Mitchell Spector <mitch2gs@hotmail.com> wrote:
    So, I have a pair of RamFAST Rev C SCSI boards, but the ROM
    firmware isn't the latest. One has version 2.01 (in both U15/U16)
    while the other has 3.01e *but* 2.01 in U16. Will this combination
    work, and support removable storage? (it's been so long I cannot
    remember the specific differences between ROM revisions).

    I'm not sure what firmware version I have, but I can't even get a CD-ROM
    drive working with it in a IIGS, let alone a IIe. I ended up swapping in an Apple DMA SCSI card, which does work.

    I'm almost a bit hesitant to use a RamFAST in a IIe, but I'm
    guessing its fast ProDOS-8 performance should be comparable to
    what I've experienced with my IIGS's. If not, would I be better off
    using one of my Apple High-Speed SCSI controllers to operate a
    CD-ROM instead?

    In a IIe, ISTR the RamFAST being a good bit quicker. Even with DMA disabled
    so an accelerator can be used, it was faster.

    And on a side-note, what is the best way to create a bootable
    ProDOS CD for Total Replay? Anything on the Windows side,
    or will I have better luck using software on my beige G3 Mac?

    You could just burn a hard-disk image (with partition table) to a CD. If
    you don't have such an image to burn, you could (if I remember right) use something like CiderPress to populate a ProDOS filesystem image with files,
    and then prepend a partition table. As long as the first partition has a
    file named PRODOS, it'll boot.

    To create a partition table, I knocked together a little tool a while back:

    https://alfter.us/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/prodos-parttbl-gen.tar.gz

    It's on this page:

    https://alfter.us/computers/apple-ii/software/

    It'll create a partition table with whatever combination of ProDOS and HFS partitions you want. Concatenate the filesystem images after the partition table, then burn the file. I used it to make a bootable System 6.0.1 CD a while back.

    _/_
    / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
    (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
    \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?


    --
    _/_
    / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
    (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
    \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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  • From Mitchell Spector@21:1/5 to scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us on Thu Jun 16 15:31:31 2022
    scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us wrote:

    Mitchell Spector <mitch2gs@hotmail.com> wrote:
    So, I have a pair of RamFAST Rev C SCSI boards, but the ROM
    firmware isn't the latest. One has version 2.01 (in both U15/U16)
    while the other has 3.01e *but* 2.01 in U16. Will this combination
    work, and support removable storage? (it's been so long I cannot
    remember the specific differences between ROM revisions).

    I'm not sure what firmware version I have, but I can't even get a CD-ROM >drive working with it in a IIGS, let alone a IIe. I ended up swapping in an >Apple DMA SCSI card, which does work.

    I've had an Apple CD300e Plus not only operating on my IIGS with the RamFAST, but able to play audio CD's as well! From memory I think you
    requires at least ROM 3.00L or higher to use removable media devices.

    Speaking of the RamFAST-C firmware, I found images of the U16
    ROM. It's only 8K large (versus 32K for the main U15 ROM), but what's
    its function AND the final version of it?

    I'm almost a bit hesitant to use a RamFAST in a IIe, but I'm
    guessing its fast ProDOS-8 performance should be comparable to
    what I've experienced with my IIGS's. If not, would I be better off
    using one of my Apple High-Speed SCSI controllers to operate a
    CD-ROM instead?

    In a IIe, ISTR the RamFAST being a good bit quicker. Even with DMA disabled >so an accelerator can be used, it was faster.

    Definitely! Total Replay boots up instantly, and I can rapidly cycle through the various game listings (it literally feels like it's running off a RAM Disk; rather like the Apple II equivalent of modern day SSD).
    At some point I'll see if I can't dig up an old SCSI hardisk to connect
    to the Apple IIe to make things even speedier.

    I tried an Apple High-Speed SCSI a few years back, and I remember
    it seemed incredibly slow by contrast (even a long pause for just the
    ProDOS-8 version splash screen to appear!).

    And on a side-note, what is the best way to create a bootable
    ProDOS CD for Total Replay? Anything on the Windows side,
    or will I have better luck using software on my beige G3 Mac?

    You could just burn a hard-disk image (with partition table) to a CD. If
    you don't have such an image to burn, you could (if I remember right) use >something like CiderPress to populate a ProDOS filesystem image with files, >and then prepend a partition table. As long as the first partition has a >file named PRODOS, it'll boot.

    To create a partition table, I knocked together a little tool a while back: >[snip]

    Thanks! I'll check that out. Meantime I'll try using Toast on my biege G3 Mac, I remember using it to burn bootable ProDOS CD-ROM some years
    ago, and why I ended up hanging on to the machine. It has a Zip drive
    too, so I should be able to create a bootable CD version of the Zip cart.

    At this point a CD-ROM disc on the Apple IIe would be counter
    productive compared to the faster (r/w) Zip disk. Or SCSI hardisk,
    but it'd be fun to try just to see if it can't be done. I'm quite sure it
    will work, after seeing the RamFAST attempt to boot a GS/OS
    CD-ROM on the IIe.

    Mitchell Spector

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  • From qkumba@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 17 12:10:34 2022
    One minor thing to note is that Total Replay does not use ProDOS in any form. We use a custom bootsector to locate and load our system file within the ProDOS file-system.
    The use of the ProDOS file-system allows us to maintain compatibility with external ProDOS media (or to be launched via someone running ProDOS first).
    So, to make a CD that can boot Total Replay directly, you'd need a way to copy our boot sector rather than the usual ProDOS one.
    Otherwise, you can put the regular ProDOS boot-sector on there, and your ProDOS system file, so that ProDOS boots first.

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  • From fadden@21:1/5 to qkumba on Fri Jun 24 14:48:15 2022
    On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 12:10:37 PM UTC-7, qkumba wrote:
    The use of the ProDOS file-system allows us to maintain compatibility with external ProDOS media (or to be launched via someone running ProDOS first).

    One minor compatibility point: the GS/OS lower-case flags are stored in the version/min_version fields in the directory entry, but not for the redundant filename entry in the directory header. Whatever is creating the Total Replay images is sticking
    nonzero values into the header's min_version field, which could potentially break something. (CiderPress stores version=5, min_version=0 to mimic GS/OS.)

    This appears to be the case in TR v4.0.1 and v5.0. Of course, if you haven't seen something break by now, it's probably fine. :-)

    cf. http://www.1000bit.it/support/manuali/apple/technotes/gsos/tn.gsos.08.html

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  • From qkumba@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 24 17:51:14 2022
    Ah, that's Cadius. We ask it to create the folders for us. I wonder if it's uninitialised something being written out. I will check on this.

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  • From qkumba@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 24 18:04:42 2022
    PEBKAC. I missed the "-C" switch to clear the bits when running Cadius.

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  • From fadden@21:1/5 to qkumba on Fri Jun 24 21:48:35 2022
    On Friday, June 24, 2022 at 5:51:17 PM UTC-7, qkumba wrote:
    Ah, that's Cadius. We ask it to create the folders for us. I wonder if it's uninitialised something being written out. I will check on this.

    Looking at the source, Prodos_Create.c line 460 appears to be intentionally setting the field to name_case. BuildProdosCase() always uses a nonzero value, even when all letters are upper-case ($8000). Changing the SetWordValue argument to 0x0005 should
    fix it (not tested).

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  • From Kent Dickey@21:1/5 to thefadden@gmail.com on Sun Jun 26 04:13:40 2022
    In article <f20f7bf4-b26d-4357-9981-99831aae5ed9n@googlegroups.com>,
    fadden <thefadden@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 12:10:37 PM UTC-7, qkumba wrote:
    The use of the ProDOS file-system allows us to maintain compatibility
    with external ProDOS media (or to be launched via someone running ProDOS >first).

    One minor compatibility point: the GS/OS lower-case flags are stored in
    the version/min_version fields in the directory entry, but not for the >redundant filename entry in the directory header. Whatever is creating
    the Total Replay images is sticking nonzero values into the header's >min_version field, which could potentially break something. (CiderPress >stores version=5, min_version=0 to mimic GS/OS.)

    This appears to be the case in TR v4.0.1 and v5.0. Of course, if you
    haven't seen something break by now, it's probably fine. :-)

    cf. http://www.1000bit.it/support/manuali/apple/technotes/gsos/tn.gsos.08.html

    In my opinion, that technote is a bit unclear on how this should work.

    There are 3 different file "entries" that matter: volume header (first entry
    on block $0002), subdirectory header (first entry of the first block of
    a subdirectory), and all other file entries.

    This email will use nomenclature that does not match the documentation: ignore the first 4 bytes of any directory block, and consider each entry to be $27 bytes, this includes volume header and subdirectory headers.

    Pre GS/OS 5: in all entries (volume header, subdir header, any other file entry), offsets $1c and $1d are VERSION and MIN_VERSION. (The official documentation considers the volume header and subdir header to start at
    byte $000 and so VERSION and MIN_VERSION are at absolute offsets $20 and
    $21).

    Post GS/OS 5 (add lowercase flags):
    For volume header, $16,$17 are the lower_case flags, and $1c
    and $1d remain VERSION and MIN_VERSION
    For normal file entries: $1c,$1d are the lower_case flags.
    For subdirectory headers: It's not defined what to do.

    I guess you've looked at GS/OS images, and subdirectory headers should not change: $1c,$1d should be VERSION and MIN_VERSION, and there are no
    lower_case flags, right (they DO NOT move to $16,$17 like the volume header)?

    Kent

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  • From fadden@21:1/5 to Kent Dickey on Sun Jun 26 07:53:56 2022
    On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 9:13:43 PM UTC-7, Kent Dickey wrote:
    In my opinion, that technote is a bit unclear on how this should work.

    It was written from the perspective of explaining the fields whose value changed meaning. It was not explicit about the fields that didn't change, but I suppose if you're writing the technote as a sort of "diff" it might not feel necessary to do so. It
    would have been useful for them to call this out.

    ProDOS 8 documentation is generally pretty vague about the directory header area, e.g. it tells you that directory headers store a redundant copy of the subdirectory name, access flags, and creation date, but doesn't mention that the latter two aren't
    updated when you call SetFileInfo. My guess is the lower-case flags would fall into the same "redundant but not updated" category, and somebody figured that if you weren't going to update them then you might as well not write them in the first place.

    I guess you've looked at GS/OS images, and subdirectory headers should not change: $1c,$1d should be VERSION and MIN_VERSION, and there are no lower_case flags, right (they DO NOT move to $16,$17 like the volume header)?

    Correct. Also, ProDOS 8 puts various values in VERSION and leaves MIN_VERSION zero.


    On a totally unrelated note, ProDOS 8 tech note #30 reveals something interesting. It suggests the following P8 BASIC.System command for creating a massively sparse file:

    BSAVE SPARSE.FILE,A$300,L$1,B$FFFFFF

    Of course, if you write 1 byte to $ffffff, you create a file whose EOF should be $1000000, which is impossible. However, the write succeeds and you can even read it back, because it's actually storing the last byte at the end of the block. The GS/OS
    FST doesn't seem to allow this.

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  • From Kent Dickey@21:1/5 to thefadden@gmail.com on Sun Jun 26 22:11:01 2022
    In article <9997cf21-f786-4126-9f7d-4f3eb2b3eba9n@googlegroups.com>,
    fadden <thefadden@gmail.com> wrote:
    On a totally unrelated note, ProDOS 8 tech note #30 reveals something >interesting. It suggests the following P8 BASIC.System command for
    creating a massively sparse file:

    BSAVE SPARSE.FILE,A$300,L$1,B$FFFFFF

    Of course, if you write 1 byte to $ffffff, you create a file whose EOF
    should be $1000000, which is impossible. However, the write succeeds
    and you can even read it back, because it's actually storing the last
    byte at the end of the block. The GS/OS FST doesn't seem to allow this.

    I changed the subject.

    This is very interesting. It's funny that the technote creates an illegal file. I did a bunch of experiments with BSAVE and
    BLOAD, and PRODOS 8 appears to treat files of length $ffff00 and higher as if the length was infinite. That's very interesting.

    If you create a small file:

    BSAVE SMALL,A$300,l100

    Then if you try to load more than the file size, ProDOS stops you:

    BLOAD SMALL,A$2000,b50,l256

    It will only load 50 bytes at $2000. The rest of memory at $2032-$2100 is unchanged, even though I tried to load 256 bytes from the file.

    But if you've created a file with a length >= $ffff00, then you can read
    far beyond it:

    BSAVE SPARSE2,A$300,L1,B$FFFFFE
    BLOAD SPARSE2,A$2000,b$ffff00,l$4000

    will happily write all 0's from $2100-$5fff.

    And, I find I cannot quite predict what it will do if you try to write over 16MB:

    BSAVE SPARSE0,A$300,l$50,b$fffff0

    It creates a file of length $fffff0, but doesn't write the data in properly.
    It seems to show up in the first block at offset $0f0. This may just be
    how ProDOS handles file "overflow".

    The "wraparound" may mean when you read past 16MB, ProDOS is just returning
    the first few bytes of the file instead. I didn't figure this out.

    I assume ProDOS is the issue, but I guess it could be BASIC.SYSTEM, since
    I was just using BLOAD and BSAVE.

    Kent

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  • From Mitchell Spector@21:1/5 to qkumba on Mon Jun 27 01:56:23 2022
    qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> wrote:

    One minor thing to note is that Total Replay does not use ProDOS
    in any form. We use a custom bootsector to locate and load our
    system file within the ProDOS file-system.The use of the ProDOS
    file-system allows us to maintain compatibility with external ProDOS
    media (or to be launched via someone running ProDOS first).
    So, to make a CD that can boot Total Replay directly, you'd need
    a way to copy our boot sector rather than the usual ProDOS one.
    Otherwise, you can put the regular ProDOS boot-sector on there,
    and your ProDOS system file, so that ProDOS boots first.

    Interesting, did not know that! On a side note, I found an old
    Quantum ProDrive LPS 105 in storage and installed that in an
    external SCSI enclosure. I created 3 x 32 MB partitions and a
    small 4 MB partition, and hooked it up to the Apple IIe with
    RamFAST.

    I just dragged all the Total Replay files onto the first partition
    and to my surprise, it automatically boots up on the IIe and gets
    directly to the Total Replay title screen/menu!

    I'm actually impressed by the speed, it boots up instantly
    once the RamFAST detects the drive, and I can zip right
    through the game selection list holding down the left/right
    arrow keys. Games load nearly instantly too--almost as
    efficiently as Total Replay on my IIGS with RamFAST D.

    I may eventually still try the CD-ROM option just to see
    if it can't be done, but this hardisk solution is far better,
    and a noticeable improvement over the Zip drive too!

    I've actually had a pair of RamFAST Rev C boards
    for over 20 years, but had little to no incentive to add
    mass storage to my 8-bit II's. That is, until Total Replay!

    Mitchell Spector

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  • From Alex Lee@21:1/5 to Mitchell Spector on Tue Jun 28 13:56:54 2022
    On 2022-06-27 05:56:23 +0000, Mitchell Spector said:

    qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> wrote:

    One minor thing to note is that Total Replay does not use ProDOS
    in any form. We use a custom bootsector to locate and load our
    system file within the ProDOS file-system.The use of the ProDOS
    file-system allows us to maintain compatibility with external ProDOS
    media (or to be launched via someone running ProDOS first).
    So, to make a CD that can boot Total Replay directly, you'd need
    a way to copy our boot sector rather than the usual ProDOS one.
    Otherwise, you can put the regular ProDOS boot-sector on there,
    and your ProDOS system file, so that ProDOS boots first.

    Interesting, did not know that! On a side note, I found an old
    Quantum ProDrive LPS 105 in storage and installed that in an
    external SCSI enclosure. I created 3 x 32 MB partitions and a
    small 4 MB partition, and hooked it up to the Apple IIe with
    RamFAST.

    I just dragged all the Total Replay files onto the first partition
    and to my surprise, it automatically boots up on the IIe and gets
    directly to the Total Replay title screen/menu!

    I'm actually impressed by the speed, it boots up instantly
    once the RamFAST detects the drive, and I can zip right
    through the game selection list holding down the left/right
    arrow keys. Games load nearly instantly too--almost as
    efficiently as Total Replay on my IIGS with RamFAST D.

    I may eventually still try the CD-ROM option just to see
    if it can't be done, but this hardisk solution is far better,
    and a noticeable improvement over the Zip drive too!

    I've actually had a pair of RamFAST Rev C boards
    for over 20 years, but had little to no incentive to add
    mass storage to my 8-bit II's. That is, until Total Replay!

    Mitchell Spector

    Hopefully you'd still find my collections of 32meg volumes with mass
    storage friendly IIGS specific software useful (available if you scroll
    down towards the bottom of the homepage).

    I've also started efforts to create a Total Replay GS, although its
    final name will not be that.

    We're currently tracking what currently doesn't work from mass storage
    or specific versions of ProDOS 16 or GS/OS. If anyone can help hack
    these programs, please look at:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19FCd3w-qTbxh5fbH6tgtLpsDUnFWcN6E6fSp0B3WjXU/edit?usp=sharing


    Alex

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  • From fadden@21:1/5 to sc...@alfter.diespammersdie.us on Fri Dec 23 17:19:39 2022
    On Thursday, June 16, 2022 at 8:18:49 AM UTC-7, sc...@alfter.diespammersdie.us wrote:
    To create a partition table, I knocked together a little tool a while back:

    https://alfter.us/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/prodos-parttbl-gen.tar.gz

    Tip: add "#pragma pack (1)" to see why your ddPad count doesn't match the documentation.

    CiderPress went ahead and declared the padding explicitly, subtracting one from ddPad to make it come out right. We're both wrong; it should be tightly packed.

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