On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 8:52:22 PM UTC-5, Paul Kimpel wrote:

I have a friend who is interested in writing an emulator for the Univac 1108. The question, of course, is what to use for software. Does anyone
know of an archive of source or object for that machine (other than Les Leist's collection, which is for the 2200)? I suppose it's too much to expect a copy of Exec 8. Thanks.
--
Paul

Paul;

Did you and/or your friend ever get anywhere with this project. I have a collection of emulators for old Univac hardware (https://sites.google.com/view/univacemulators/home) some that I have written and some not. It would be nice to be able to add an
1108 to the list.

Steve

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sboy...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 8:52:22 PM UTC-5, Paul Kimpel wrote:

I have a friend who is interested in writing an emulator for the Univac
1108. The question, of course, is what to use for software. Does anyone
know of an archive of source or object for that machine (other than Les
Leist's collection, which is for the 2200)? I suppose it's too much to
expect a copy of Exec 8. Thanks.
--
Paul

Paul;

Did you and/or your friend ever get anywhere with this project. I have a collection of emulators for old Univac hardware (https://sites.google.com/view/univacemulators/home) some that I have written and some not. It would be nice to be able to add an

1108 to the list.

Steve

You bcc'd me on that posting, I ain't Paul.
I note that you have "dont-email.me" as part of your ID, maybe ...

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Andrew wrote:

sboy...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 8:52:22 PM UTC-5, Paul Kimpel wrote:

I have a friend who is interested in writing an emulator for the Univac
1108. The question, of course, is what to use for software. Does anyone
know of an archive of source or object for that machine (other than Les
Leist's collection, which is for the 2200)? I suppose it's too much to
expect a copy of Exec 8. Thanks.
--
Paul

Paul;

Did you and/or your friend ever get anywhere with this project. I have
a collection of emulators for old Univac hardware
(https://sites.google.com/view/univacemulators/home) some that I have
written and some not. It would be nice to be able to add an 1108 to
the list.

Steve

You bcc'd me on that posting, I ain't Paul.
I note that you have "dont-email.me" as part of your ID, maybe ...

My bad - that was Google Groups mailing me, sorry. There are reasons I
no longer use GG.

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On 11/11/2020 7:36 AM, sboy...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 8:52:22 PM UTC-5, Paul Kimpel wrote:

I have a friend who is interested in writing an emulator for the Univac
1108. The question, of course, is what to use for software. Does anyone
know of an archive of source or object for that machine (other than Les
Leist's collection, which is for the 2200)? I suppose it's too much to
expect a copy of Exec 8. Thanks.
--
Paul

Paul;

Did you and/or your friend ever get anywhere with this project. I have a collection of emulators for old Univac hardware (https://sites.google.com/view/univacemulators/home) some that I have written and some not. It would be nice to be able to add an

1108 to the list.

Steve

No, as far as I know that project hasn't gone anywhere.

Paul

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On Thursday, November 12, 2020 at 9:29:17 AM UTC-5, Paul Kimpel wrote:

No, as far as I know that project hasn't gone anywhere.

Paul

Too bad. I was hoping that someone had found a copy of Exec 8 at least.

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On Thursday, November 12, 2020 at 10:27:34 AM UTC-5, sboy...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, November 12, 2020 at 9:29:17 AM UTC-5, Paul Kimpel wrote:

No, as far as I know that project hasn't gone anywhere.

Paul

Too bad. I was hoping that someone had found a copy of Exec 8 at least.

I am also looking for Exec 8 software. My potential source seems to have dried up. If something is found I will add a 1108 emulator to SimH.

Rich

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On 11/12/2020 5:51 PM, kgxxx10@yahoo.com wrote:

On Thursday, November 12, 2020 at 10:27:34 AM UTC-5,

sboy...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, November 12, 2020 at 9:29:17 AM UTC-5, Paul Kimpel wrote:

No, as far as I know that project hasn't gone anywhere.

Paul

Too bad. I was hoping that someone had found a copy of Exec 8 at least.

I am also looking for Exec 8 software. My potential source seems

to have dried up. If something is found I will add a 1108 emulator to SimH.

I think a lot depends upon exactly what you want. Specifically, do you
want HW compatibility with the Exec Mode instructions, or is it
sufficient that the emulator provides a current level Exec with the
ability to run essentially all applications software from the 1108 days,
i.e. user mode instructions?

If the latter, then PS/2200 is certainly sufficient and is available for
free (with registration) from Unisys. It includes a full current
release, including Exec, compilers, utilities, etc. (note, no source code)

If you want an Exec from back in the day that 1108 hardware was
supported, so your program could emulate the Exec instructions and boot
the Exec, I expect the odds are pretty slim. Exec went proprietary with
IIRC level 33, about the mid 1970s, so to be legal, you want a level
before that. In addition, Exec dropped support for the 1108 hardware effective, again IIRC, level 36 (1980s?).

Also, note that you would probably need the source, unless you plan to
support the exact peripheral configuration of some boot tape you find.
And then you need the Asembler, MAP, SSG, etc. to be able to do a sysgen.

All in all,I would rate your chances of finding the source for a
pre-level 33 Exec, and all the supporting software as almost nil.



--
- Stephen Fuld
(e-mail address disguised to prevent spam)

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On Thursday, November 12, 2020 at 9:26:52 PM UTC-5, Stephen Fuld wrote:

I think a lot depends upon exactly what you want. Specifically, do you
want HW compatibility with the Exec Mode instructions, or is it
sufficient that the emulator provides a current level Exec with the
ability to run essentially all applications software from the 1108 days, i.e. user mode instructions?

If the latter, then PS/2200 is certainly sufficient and is available for free (with registration) from Unisys. It includes a full current
release, including Exec, compilers, utilities, etc. (note, no source code)

The point is not to have a modern 2200 on a desktop but to recreate an historical processor. Besides just being historically interesting, they were simple enough that any decent programmer could write code directly on the iron. So if we were to emulate
an 1108 (or 1107 or 1110) it would be possible for people to either run OLD Exec-8 or write their own programs to run directly on the iron. Something you can't do with PS/2200. Which I have on my desktop right now BTW. Having to renew the license for
that annually is a bit of a PITA.

PS/2200 would be good for running some of the old NASA software that is kicking around. But unless you are a rocket scientist that stuff is of limited usefulness. Or interest (at least to me personally).

I realize that the odds of finding an old Exec-8 boot tape or install tape lying around is not good but stranger things have happened. Even if we find one, getting it off of old 7-track tapes is going to be problematical.

I remember doing 1100 sysgens back in the day. They were a long tedious process.

Steve Boyd

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I would love to see an 1110 emulator in SIMH. I have PS/2200
at home and enjoy it, but working with EXEC/8 on an 1100 again
would be more fun.

Has anyone ever approached UNISYS to see if there was a chance
they might release software to run on such an emulator? I can't
see where there would be any risk of lost business in doing it
and they could always accompany it with a hobbyist or historical
license to limit uses just to keep the lawyers happy.

bill

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On Friday, November 13, 2020 at 12:36:45 PM UTC-5, Bill Gunshannon wrote:

I would love to see an 1110 emulator in SIMH. I have PS/2200
at home and enjoy it, but working with EXEC/8 on an 1100 again
would be more fun.

Has anyone ever approached UNISYS to see if there was a chance
they might release software to run on such an emulator? I can't
see where there would be any risk of lost business in doing it
and they could always accompany it with a hobbyist or historical
license to limit uses just to keep the lawyers happy.

bill

I contacted Unisys several years ago when I was writing the 9200/9300 emulator to see if they had any documents or software for that system. They were quite good about answering my emails but ultimately unhelpful. They don't seem to have much in the way
of archives. Or at least the person I was corresponding with didn't know much about them.

The easiest way of recreating an 1108 or similar might be to just write an emulator and reverse engineer a minimalist Exec-8 to run on it. The old Exec-8 manuals are available.

This is essentially what I did for the 494 emulator that I wrote. It turns out that writing a minimalist multi-tasking, multi-job operating system is not all that difficult. At least no more difficult than writing the emulator.

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On 11/13/20 2:12 PM, sboy...@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, November 13, 2020 at 12:36:45 PM UTC-5, Bill Gunshannon wrote:

I would love to see an 1110 emulator in SIMH. I have PS/2200
at home and enjoy it, but working with EXEC/8 on an 1100 again
would be more fun.

Has anyone ever approached UNISYS to see if there was a chance
they might release software to run on such an emulator? I can't
see where there would be any risk of lost business in doing it
and they could always accompany it with a hobbyist or historical
license to limit uses just to keep the lawyers happy.

bill

I contacted Unisys several years ago when I was writing the 9200/9300 emulator to see if they had any documents or software for that system. They were quite good about answering my emails but ultimately unhelpful. They don't seem to have much in the

way of archives. Or at least the person I was corresponding with didn't know much about them.

Would still be worth trying to get some form of license from them
because even if you found a tape using it without permission would
be problematic. Anybody ever talked to U Wisconsin about possibly
having something hanging around? They used to be a big UNIVAC site.
USMA at West Point was, too, but while it is very likely they do
have stuff stored (or archived somewhere) it is probably impossible
to get them to release it, especially without UNIVAC permission.

The easiest way of recreating an 1108 or similar might be to just write an emulator and reverse engineer a minimalist Exec-8 to run on it. The old Exec-8 manuals are available.

That is always possible.

This is essentially what I did for the 494 emulator that I wrote. It turns out that writing a minimalist multi-tasking, multi-job operating system is not all that difficult. At least no more difficult than writing the emulator.

bill

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On Thursday, November 12, 2020 at 9:26:52 PM UTC-5, Stephen Fuld wrote:

On 11/12/2020 5:51 PM, kgx...@yahoo.com wrote:

If the latter, then PS/2200 is certainly sufficient and is available for free (with registration) from Unisys. It includes a full current
release, including Exec, compilers, utilities, etc. (note, no source code)

If you want an Exec from back in the day that 1108 hardware was
supported, so your program could emulate the Exec instructions and boot
the Exec, I expect the odds are pretty slim. Exec went proprietary with
IIRC level 33, about the mid 1970s, so to be legal, you want a level
before that. In addition, Exec dropped support for the 1108 hardware effective, again IIRC, level 36 (1980s?).

Also, note that you would probably need the source, unless you plan to support the exact peripheral configuration of some boot tape you find.
And then you need the Asembler, MAP, SSG, etc. to be able to do a sysgen.

All in all,I would rate your chances of finding the source for a
pre-level 33 Exec, and all the supporting software as almost nil.

I myself am more interested in early timesharing and batch systems. PS/2200 is nice, but it is not the same as Exec 8 or the like. In terms of writing an emulator without an operating system, it is very hard to get it correct. I have considered re-
writing Exec-8 too, however there is no way with this method to verify that the emulator is correct. It also seems like a huge amount of work just to recreate an experience (not the doing an emulator is easy :-). I have done some stand alone assemblers
for a couple older machines, where software was not available.

Rich

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On Friday, November 13, 2020 at 6:48:24 PM UTC-5, kgx...@yahoo.com wrote:

On Thursday, November 12, 2020 at 9:26:52 PM UTC-5, Stephen Fuld wrote:

On 11/12/2020 5:51 PM, kgx...@yahoo.com wrote:

If the latter, then PS/2200 is certainly sufficient and is available for free (with registration) from Unisys. It includes a full current
release, including Exec, compilers, utilities, etc. (note, no source code)

If you want an Exec from back in the day that 1108 hardware was
supported, so your program could emulate the Exec instructions and boot the Exec, I expect the odds are pretty slim. Exec went proprietary with IIRC level 33, about the mid 1970s, so to be legal, you want a level before that. In addition, Exec dropped support for the 1108 hardware effective, again IIRC, level 36 (1980s?).

Also, note that you would probably need the source, unless you plan to support the exact peripheral configuration of some boot tape you find.
And then you need the Asembler, MAP, SSG, etc. to be able to do a sysgen.

All in all,I would rate your chances of finding the source for a
pre-level 33 Exec, and all the supporting software as almost nil.

I myself am more interested in early timesharing and batch systems. PS/2200 is nice, but it is not the same as Exec 8 or the like. In terms of writing an emulator without an operating system, it is very hard to get it correct. I have considered re-

writing Exec-8 too, however there is no way with this method to verify that the emulator is correct. It also seems like a huge amount of work just to recreate an experience (not the doing an emulator is easy :-). I have done some stand alone assemblers
for a couple older machines, where software was not available.

Rich

I attended the University of Maryland - College Park from 1967 - 1971. I lived in the Cambridge-A dorm for 25 years which was across the street from the Computer Science Center. Spent a lot of time on TTY-35s. Worked for High Energy Physics during the
school year which provided an unfettered user account. UOM lore is documented elsewhere.. I later spent 2 years at ITTR-ECAC (Annapolis) and Sperry Univac (Washington DC). There was a lot of swapping around of Exec8 Code at the UOM CS Center among UOM,
U.S. Navy, Univac, ITTRI, etc. For example, the UOM distribution tape was used at ECAC. While at Univac I used shared code (Core-to-Core ERs) to migrate the U1557/U1558 at the U.S. Army's Concept Analysis Center. One of the big reasons this swap fest
went on was these people were charged with doing secure operating system or other similar work. There was no pathway with IBM HW/SW - but Univac...

Now the meat. Half the of the Cambridge A dorm were Physics majors and many of them worked for the Physics Department thus obtaining unfettered accounts. Many were seduced by big iron and neglected their studies. I was one of those - but I managed to
graduate. One very bright Cambridge-A fellow was Jeffrey Jewett - you can find him on Linked-In as Jeffrey Jewett
Systems Analyst at University of Maryland. Jeff really went down the Univac rabbit hole - and the University "kicked" him out. (I think Jeff and Brian K. Reid were Cambridge-A roommates or at least lived on the same floor. Brian was a CS superstar-
check Wikipedia.) Anyway, from what I remember UOM's Administration picked up an U1106 and Jeff found a long, long term home. I would not be surprised if Jeff might not have a slant on certain interesting magnetic media. If you contact him and need to
contextualize me - I lived on the Cambridge-A 4th floor and my roommate was Russ Reid - Brian Reid's brother.

Good luck in your navigating.

William (aka Marc) Lyerly

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